Tav as a number 8

In principal it could work and could offer greater threat with both Tav and Patterson able to go past a defender and deliver crosses, even from deeper positions.

However I think it’s not going to happen and would be seen as a gamble by the management team.
Yeah thats it would give us much more on the right side of attack.

I think there is 2 problems with the suggestion from the managers pov.

1/ he should have done it in pre-season and i would guess(totally guess) he now knows it.
2/ money spent on players hes signed even though its only wages.
 
How about Ryan Jack as a no. 8 when he gets fit shortly?

Ryan Jack is never going to have close to a full season of being fit and available for selection again. He's got chronic injury problems; there's no surgical fix for that. So even if Ryan Jack is your preferred option for the position, you realistically need someone else for the other half - or more - of the season.
 
Yeah thats it would give us much more on the right side of attack.

I think there is 2 problems with the suggestion from the managers pov.

1/ he should have done it in pre-season and i would guess(totally guess) he now knows it.
2/ money spent on players hes signed even though its only wages.
Other benefit is that from the number 8 position, in Tav we would have a player willing to shoot from distance.
 
Not sure thats much on an argument mate.

Not the same at all though Patterson is not only much better hes also a fine attacking player.

I thought on here we just ignored everything Pedro said or done anyway.
It's the best argument available.
The manager is going to have to make the decision soon because young Nathan is too good not to play first team football.

I'm inclined to favour Patterson but can see the logic in going with Tav, because whatever decision Gerrard reaches on who to play, one thing is absolutely sure Nathan Patterson will be sold for big money in the next two years. Do we therefore :-

a) sacrifice an outstanding RB for a potentially much better one now, full in the knowledge that we're going to lose him anyway albeit for big money.

or

b) continue with Tav and lose Patterson for less than he's worth due to lack of first team action.

I guess that's what managers get paid the big bucks for.
 
When was the last time Tav got to the byeline?!

18 yards he launched the ball in. Very rarely do any of our players go there and cut the ball back. It is infuriating
Exactly, it's part of Tav's game that has deteriorated. He rarely drives into the box and commits opposition players these days. His delivery can still be top class at times, but we rarely have enough bodies in the box to take best advantage.
 
I'll go against the grain and say I wouldn't mind giving this a go to see how it works.

Tav______Davis_____Kamara

Tav is good on the ball, can drive forward from deep, has great athleticism & has good long range shooting.

It would also mean Patterson getting more game time, who posseses a lot of the same qualities as Tav so we wouldn't lose our threat from RB.

Would it work?.. not sure but I wouldn't complain if Gerrard tried it.
The problem here is that, as a poster has already highlighted, there must be half a dozen better options for right mid than Tavernier.
 
Other benefit is that from the number 8 position, in Tav we would have a player willing to shoot from distance.
Exactly a player that can Beckham it right in the top corner at a time we dont shoot often enough.

Maybe from that position or a similar position he gets 10 chances to shoot and not just 1 or 2.

The other point is that both of them have energy and never stop which is exactly what we have been missing.

If we were playing well, winning then fine, we have been dreadful and theres a 10m rated player sitting watching all the time its nuts.

And the other point about just gee him the cups, what happens if we play Celtic or get to the final ?

If i was Tav i want to play these games.
 
Its quite funny the panic this question causes and its utterly bizarre the way folk keep slagging off Patterson and looking for faults in a young kids game after every poor performance that hes not even been part of. Worse we play more motivated folk become to tell us every day aye well Patterson isnae any use either.

I agree with you for what its worth op, they should both be in the team. Not really two right backs its two fine footballers with pace and energy that can get forward and may link up well. Longer it goes on less chance of it happening tonight wouldnt be the worse time to try it or even 4-4-2 which also results in the red mist on here.

Be nice to try something different help the players out as clearly they do need support from fans and management.
I've always been against changing formation for the sake of it but I feel as though we need a freshness.

442 is interesting BC, as you've highlighted, Tav and Patterson could play together and I think Aribo would be useful on the left of the midfield as well with Borna / Bassey overlapping.

If we are going to keep swinging crosses into the box as our main method of attack we would be better off with two strikers in the box and possibly 1 breaking from midfield to get on the end of them.

Roofe and Sakala look like they could function in a partnership and Alfie v2 might work with another now.

It would certainly catch teams out domestically for the first few games.
 
It was Murty who did it at The Chamber when we drew 1-1 (though Caixinha was in the stand). It kinda worked but it's not a long term solution.

Tav's strrengths are making the runs from the RB position, whether wide and long or coming inside. Playing him forward negates that attacking threat as he would be picked up easier and quicker.


I remember Warburton putting Tav in midfield, with Hodson at full back, (to try and stifle Sinclair) against Celtic in the LC Semi Final, when Dembele scored at the death to win it for them.
 
I actually think he could work quite well on the right of the midfield three...

We know how much of a goal threat he is (something we sorely miss from midfield) and he could still get into the positions where he does damage crossing wise. I think him an Patterson would run a mock down the right hand side.
 
Tbh, I’d much rather use Tavernier or Patterson at centre back than have to put up with continuous use of Simpson.
Man, Simpson must have had the shocker of the decade last weekend, given the amount of bashing he`s received.

I vividly remember the moment when Tav decided to play the ball back into no-man`s land (i.e. exactly where the marauding Yahoo needed it) 2 seasons back, when they went on and beat us that day and kill any hopes of getting back into the title race. He`s also one of the few players of the MW era that played through all of the shame games under MW and PC. But yeah, lay into Simpson like there is no tomorrow.

For what it is worth, it would be a change if we start to swap tactics and formation according to the opposition we play. Ever since SG arrived we went Plan A and tried to make it work with better players (player MW never had). It worked after 3 (!) seasons, but as we can see week in and week out, it more often than not is toiling against the brickwall brigade of Scottish football.

Given what the opposition has thrown at us ... if anything bar the odd counter attack, you would have hoped that we switch to something like 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 rather than what we celebrate each week. De facto, we have to centre-halfs at the back, two DMs who mop up any possible attack (but usually play rather deep), two fullbacks who play the wingback role with a varying degree of success and three midfielders trying to assist the single striker. Even when we had strikers who can play across the front line in a top-3. And much of our success last season was down to our defence being utterly tight and pending on the daily form of our "attacking" midfielders, either in scoring the odd goal or managing to get a ball to the striker. De facto, we had/have one striker and a three attack-minded midfielders and some "marauding" fullbacks up against 5 to 8 defending players.

As much as we should actually play e.g. Roofe, Morelos AND Sakala up front, and anyone else behind that, against teams that dig in deep and rarely threaten, we could easily enough play a more attack minded Tavernier alongside Kamara in deeper MF (or as a right-sided back-3-centre-half), so both can counter any attempt of the opposition while the fullbacks venture forward. Tav also has the engine and willingness to attack or run into spaces (something we lack these days). Hagi and/or Aribo should be the creative attack-minded central MFs, Wright, Kent, Bacuna et al take turns as left/right-sided AMs behind the front 2 or 3.

We have the players for those roles, we need to use and utilize them. Not every game requires 2 DMs ...
 
I reckon there’s a reason we haven’t tried it… tav is the best right back in the country and putting an inferior player in Patterson at right back wouldn’t help us right now.
 
The problem here is that, as a poster has already highlighted, there must be half a dozen better options for right mid than Tavernier.
We don't play a right midfielder and haven't done since Gerrard came in.

We play 3 central midfielders and it's clearly been a problem area this season so not sure where the 6 better options are coming from?

Jack - Injured

Arfield - looks miles off it

Aribo - better further forward

Lundstram - I still think he'll come good but he's very similar to Kamara/Davis

Bacuna - hopefully gets more game time.

I'm not saying it would deffinately work but we need something different in midfield.. its a major issue.
 
Good players can play a number of different positions- we see plenty of examples around different clubs and leagues.
Tav is a good player and I think he could play in midfield, but I’m not sure how that would affect his overall contribution- would he score/assist more or less? I’m sure it’s something the manager and trainers have been looking at and in time I believe we will try this.
The one thing I am sure about is we need to see more of Patterson on the field. He is an outstanding prospect and for me is wasted sitting on the bench every week.
 
We don't play a right midfielder and haven't done since Gerrard came in.

We play 3 central midfielders and it's clearly been a problem area this season so not sure where the 6 better options are coming from?

Jack - Injured

Arfield - looks miles off it

Aribo - better further forward

Lundstram - I still think he'll come good but he's very similar to Kamara/Davis

Bacuna - hopefully gets more game time.

I'm not saying it would deffinately work but we need something different in midfield.. its a major issue.
I get this.
A keyboard slip of the tongue on my part and my apologies.
It actually adds to my argument against Tavernier in midfield, in my opinion.
 
We have to get McGregor and Mclaughlin into the same team, i think shagger should play centre half with big Fil being injured
 
Are you pulli g m
The right side number 8 midfield position is becoming a bit of an issue for me.

We've tried a few there now, but none of them offer Goldson and Tav the same protection Jack did, or that Kamara provides on the left side.

Could Tav play that role for is with Patterson at right back?

He certainly has the energy and would add some much needed pace to the midfield as well as a threat with shots from distance.

Also, in theory he should be good at covering the full back, helping the defence and shuttling across laterally.

Issue might be on the ball and having less time in there.

Aribo doesn't work there, neither does Arfield and it's beginning to look like Lundstram might be better as a defensive number 6.

I'd like to see us trying Tav in there. Thoughts?
Are you pulling my leg do we not have enough defensive problems with Tav not knowing how to position himself as it is if you don't believe me and you have been at Ibrox recently the amount of times Balogun and Goldson get stuck into him while he is standing with his head down without trying to shoehorn him in where pace and football brains are needed, sorry mate but ma nerves couldn't stand up to that.
 
Why is he so imp
He played central midfield during a short spell under Warburton and performed well. That was many years ago and it seems highly unlikely Gerrard would suddenly try and turn him into a midfielder at the age of 29, especially as he's so important to us in his current role and has just come off the back of a player of the year season.
Why is he so important to us this year when our centre backs are forever shouting at him because he gets caught out of position so much?.
 
Tav can be a big asset going forward but his defending often leaves a lot to be desired.

Playing him further forward and giving Patterson the RB spot isn’t such a bad idea.
 
I get this.
A keyboard slip of the tongue on my part and my apologies.
It actually adds to my argument against Tavernier in midfield, in my opinion.
Fair enough.

I'm not desperate for Gerrard to try it but I certainly wouldn't bet against Tav making it work.. he's got all the attributes.
 
Just watched the training video from yesterday and it looks like Patterson will be starting. Will be interesting to see if Tav does play in front of him or he is on the bench.
 
The right side number 8 midfield position is becoming a bit of an issue for me.

We've tried a few there now, but none of them offer Goldson and Tav the same protection Jack did, or that Kamara provides on the left side.

Could Tav play that role for is with Patterson at right back?

He certainly has the energy and would add some much needed pace to the midfield as well as a threat with shots from distance.

Also, in theory he should be good at covering the full back, helping the defence and shuttling across laterally.

Issue might be on the ball and having less time in there.

Aribo doesn't work there, neither does Arfield and it's beginning to look like Lundstram might be better as a defensive number 6.

I'd like to see us trying Tav in there. Thoughts?
Tried him there on FM and he was an instant success. I also played him there on FIFA and PES and he didn’t look out of place. There’s a clear body of evidence to support this. Gerrard should act now before any potential updates.
 
Tav’s crossing IS part of the problem. And not just poor crosses. When he plays, the defence and midfield pass it between themselves needlessly before it ends up wide out to Tav whereupon he starts shelling in cross after cross into to giant defenders. The same is true of Barisic lately. Against the assists Tav gets for his stats, there are the many wasted plays due to overhit, underhit crosses and even the reasonable ones being easily dealt by a packed huge defence. Even SG complimented one of the H&H guys on noticing how in the first half we played through the lines playing some of our best football all season, in contrast to the second half where we reverted mostly to hopeful cross balls. Teams try and funnel us out wide because they manage comfortably our hopeful undirected balls in from wide areas. They struggle much more with the quick one two’s and interpassing along the 18 yard line.
I think with Bassey and Patterson especially we don’t end up falling into the hopeful high ball pattern of play.
 
How about Ryan Jack as a no. 8 when he gets fit shortly?
Shortly!! I hope you are right. Didn't fill me with confidence when Gary Mc mentioned his progress at the press conference.

Seemed to hesitate a bit then gave a fairly generic "trying to find his fitness" resposne.
 
Tell me why it categorically wouldnt work.
I’d never suggest it wouldn’t work.
My argument against is simply that I think Tavernier has yet to be displaced as our best right back and there are better, more proven options for our midfield.
Also, not everybody will agree here but, we did create plenty of chances on Sunday.
Maybe none were 100% chances but they were still great opportunities and I don’t see the ned for that type of change unless we’re discussing a goalscoring midfielder.
 
I’d never suggest it wouldn’t work.
My argument against is simply that I think Tavernier has yet to be displaced as our best right back and there are better, more proven options for our midfield.
Also, not everybody will agree here but, we did create plenty of chances on Sunday.
Maybe none were 100% chances but they were still great opportunities and I don’t see the ned for that type of change unless we’re discussing a goalscoring midfielder.
I asked that to someone else who made an arsey comment, wasn't aimed at you.

After reading his other posts it's clear he just doesn't like our captain.
 
And Patterson is wasted on our bench. Tavernier in midfield should be considered, and even Gerrard has explored the possibility. We do need Patterson playing on a consistent basis, and we also need Tavernier just as much.

I get that, I totally get why fans want Nathan in the team as he is an outstanding talent. To say that Tav shouldn't be moved to a No.8 isn't a slight on Nathan.

I listened to the manager speak after the St. Johnstone game and what I took from his comments were he was saying that it will happen, Nathan will take over that position, but just not yet. He didn't seem too concerned that Nathan is going to ask to leave.

I do think we as fans need to trust the management team to do just that, manage Nathan's game time while not casting Tav aside just yet.
 
I think it's something that Gerrard had been working on but clearly isn't ready to be tried out. I am a big fan of keeping players playing in their natural position. Tav is a right back and it really should be where he is playing. That said, I think Patterson is a better defender and soon to be an overall better player than Tav altogether.

It might be something worth giving a go - not sure when the right time to try it out is though.

That said, I want to see Patterson playing, a lot more.
He had knocks and issues with virus, he was not in the squad last few weeks.
He would've played more if he was ready to.
 
He had knocks and issues with virus, he was not in the squad last few weeks.
He would've played more if he was ready to.

I think he'll play some part tonight, I think Gary McAllister said he was back in contention now.
 
Exactly, it's part of Tav's game that has deteriorated. He rarely drives into the box and commits opposition players these days. His delivery can still be top class at times, but we rarely have enough bodies in the box to take best advantage.
His delivery, 8 times out of 10 hits the first man, luckily the other 2 are quality.
 
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