Tav - Lets try and stay positive

wilso10

Well-Known Member
James Tavernier is the best Captain since Davie Weir and the best right back since Gary Stevens.

I also think based solely on memory of the replay's at the time (would be good if someone could link to the goals) that yesterday's goal was more Goldson's fault that Taverniers.

When the ball came over I believe Tavernier thought Goldson was going for it this is why he was slow to react to it and got caught out.
A solid CH would have been right through a ball coming across his line like that.

As I said if I see a replay and I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, till then I then Goldson is getting away with it.


Sure he is going through a tough patch and not playing at his best but some of the abuse the guy get on here is shocking, I though we had rules about that on this forum.
As a huge fan of Tav, I have to say I think you're being kind to him and harsh on Goldson.


36 seconds in shows Goldson check his attempt to clear it once he spots Tav being closest to the ball and clearly expecting him to handle it.

I agree with your last statement.
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
I’m a big fan of Tav and always try my best at defending him.

Yes he’s cost us a few big goals this season but some of the absolute nonsense I’ve read on here about him is absolutely dreadful.

People need to try and remember last season how good he was for us and the majority of our good attacking play came from him.

He seems to be going through some sort of mental block at the moment. Maybe instead of the “strip him of the captaincy” brigade continue to hound him, why don’t we try and give him full support as we all know he has the ability to turn it round.

You don’t just become shite over night

And let’s be honest if our Managers sticking by him I think we should maybe at least give it a go
Agreed, he should remain as captain what will that do for the guy's confidence if he's stripped. I don't know anyone else that gets forward as much and I think that's why the gaffer keeps him in the team. Ido think he misses the linkups with Candeias and there is no one else he links up the same with. I'm sure he's well aware of the mistakes he's made but he wasn't the only one off form.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
I do find the slight re-write of narrative fucken weird.

i.e he is a loser who has been costing us for years, we have never won anything with him in the team etc.

His CV with Rangers in terms of results and performances isn't a kick in the arse of that which Morelos and to a lesser extent Jack have been involved in..

Folks who try and pin shit displays during Taverniers earlier Rangers career on him are showing a complete failing to understand football.
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
It’s not just Tav the whole back line looked shaky at times on Sunday. I think we need a settled back line instead of rotating so much. We should have a first choice back four and play it every big game, giving others a run against weaker sides at home.
 

Knightswoodbear

Well-Known Member
Every brain fart he's had so far this season has been when he's been trying to track back and has been caught up the pitch. What's changed over the summer that's made this happen? As he was absolutley immense last season. He's not got Candeias to cover for him now, he's being left badly exposed. Some people couldn't state quick enough that DC wasn't good enough for us when he left, I think we're seeing that may not have been the case.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Every brain fart he's had so far this season has been when he's been trying to track back and has been caught up the pitch. What's changed over the summer that's made this happen? As he was absolutley immense last season. He's not got Candeias to cover for him now, he's being left badly exposed. Some people couldn't state quick enough that DC wasn't good enough for us when he left, I think we're seeing that may not have been the case.

Explain the arse end of last season then?

Candeias would have done %^*& all to resolve that incident yesterday or Young Boys
 

DotMantooth

Well-Known Member
James Tavernier is the best Captain since Davie Weir and the best right back since Gary Stevens.

I also think based solely on memory of the replay's at the time (would be good if someone could link to the goals) that yesterday's goal was more Goldson's fault that Taverniers.

When the ball came over I believe Tavernier thought Goldson was going for it this is why he was slow to react to it and got caught out.
A solid CH would have been right through a ball coming across his line like that.

As I said if I see a replay and I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, till then I then Goldson is getting away with it.


Sure he is going through a tough patch and not playing at his best but some of the abuse the guy get on here is shocking, I though we had rules about that on this forum.
Are you being serious?
 

wilso10

Well-Known Member
I do find the slight re-write of narrative fucken weird.

i.e he is a loser who has been costing us for years, we have never won anything with him in the team etc.

His CV with Rangers in terms of results and performances isn't a kick in the arse of that which Morelos and to a lesser extent Jack have been involved in..

Folks who try and pin shit displays during Taverniers earlier Rangers career on him are showing a complete failing to understand football.
I've never seen a player who's had so much history re-written about him in order to fit a certain narrative to be honest.

There have been blatant lies about the guy on here from folk at times which is a nod, as you say, to their complete lack of understanding the game and desire to stick the boot into the guy.
 
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Beer Belly Loyal

Well-Known Member
Some stats, after 21 games this season compared to last.

I'm only listing brief stats on his forward play as his defending has always been suspect anyway, not just this season. :(

2018-19 Played 19 (+1 sub app.) scored 8, assisted 9.

2019-20 Played 19...scored 3...assisted 6.

2018-19 6 pens missed none.
2019-20 4 pens missed 2.
 

JW1988

Well-Known Member
See on places like this, in pubs, on supporters buses etc I have no problem with people giving their opinion (no matter how much I may disagree) on Tavernier and his attributes both as a player and a captain.
Where the line should be drawn is the mutants on places like Twitter directly messaging him things, firstly some of the spelling and grammar would embarrass an 8 year old. But beyond that, do they think it helps anyone?

as the Internet age has grown we’ve had more and more people become managers in their own head. Stating things as fact, like he’s never a Rangers captain etc
When the actual fact is he is the Rangers captain.
one comfort ive taken from the last few years is that when Gerrard does depart we have a host of footballing experts ready to roll off their armchair and show us how it should be done.
 

Bulletproof

Active Member
I've never been a fan of Tav but he is still one of the better fullbacks in the SPL(for what's that worth)
My da says he has the tor andre flo's about him in that if you look at his stats on paper they look good but football is not played on paper
 

JW1988

Well-Known Member
Some stats, after 21 games this season compared to last.

I'm only listing brief stats on his forward play as his defending has always been suspect anyway, not just this season. :(

2018-19 Played 19 (+1 sub app.) scored 8, assisted 9.

2019-20 Played 19...scored 3...assisted 6.

2018-19 6 pens missed none.
2019-20 4 pens missed 2.
Even as bare stats, that’s some pretty decent numbers this seAson as well.

we all know he’s not reached the heights of last years form but I think a few players fall into that category.
as for his defending, I think last season it improved remarkably, this season his defending itself hasn’t been bad, it’s been errors. Even going back to Celtic last year it was a loose pass, same against YB this year loose pass and stretching for a ball that was between him and Goldson then Yesterday was the same, stretching for a ball that imo he shouldn’t have been near anyway as I’d want my CB there.
 

JW1988

Well-Known Member
James Tavernier is the best Captain since Davie Weir and the best right back since Gary Stevens.

I also think based solely on memory of the replay's at the time (would be good if someone could link to the goals) that yesterday's goal was more Goldson's fault that Taverniers.

When the ball came over I believe Tavernier thought Goldson was going for it this is why he was slow to react to it and got caught out.
A solid CH would have been right through a ball coming across his line like that.

As I said if I see a replay and I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, till then I then Goldson is getting away with it.


Sure he is going through a tough patch and not playing at his best but some of the abuse the guy get on here is shocking, I though we had rules about that on this forum.
I’ve just said below actually about the goal, I think that one and the YB one where he’s stretched for them both should’ve been CB winning them. But he had to do better on both as well. I love Tav, on form he is our second best player at the club behind Morelos
 

Ronniemca

Well-Known Member
Does anybody know how long he has left on his contract? Is he in his final year and in his head he is elsewhere? Just looks to be all over the place at the moment with a weight on his shoulders.Needs taken out for a few games,something is definitely not right
 

Coda

Well-Known Member
Rightly or wrongly, I'd say Tav has one more big mistake before folk properly turn. 3 in two matches that has cost us 5 points is bad enough, one more in the next month or so and he'll have negated all previous credit.

Tav of last year was unplayable and key to the success of the team, based on this year so far, i'd be less concerned if he was out the side.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
I can't be the only one thinking his true best position would be a place in front ie right side of midfield.

I just don't think he's a defender..
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
See on places like this, in pubs, on supporters buses etc I have no problem with people giving their opinion (no matter how much I may disagree) on Tavernier and his attributes both as a player and a captain.
Where the line should be drawn is the mutants on places like Twitter directly messaging him things, firstly some of the spelling and grammar would embarrass an 8 year Old.

one comfort ive taken from the last few years is that when Gerrard does depart we have a host of footballing experts ready to roll off their armchair and show us how it should be done.
To be honest mate it sounds like you do have a problem with it. Football fans have always disagreed with managers decisions, have always debated tactics, team selections etc. It’s part of the fun of being a fan and it’ll always be that way. It would be a bit dull if we said “aye well we lost that game but let’s not talk about why Morelos was dropped because we’re armchair managers and the gaffer must have known better”.

I agree with what you say about twitter and all that nonsense though. Anyone who sends any direct criticism to players on any social media platform is a compete and utter fanny. In fact I’ll say the same of anyone who hurls abuse from the stands, I’ve sat beside some real cretins over the years who turn up every second week to do little else than sit there and hurl abuse at the players.
 

donka

Well-Known Member
For me, Tav's issue has been decision making. When he is bombing forward, there isn't much in the way of decision making required - beat a man and get the ball in the box. If he is tracking the opposition down the line he is also fine.
If he is caught elsewhere e.g. in possesion under pressure or caught between the ball and the player then he seems to be making these stupid decisions.

Let's be clear, he cost us two goals against Young Boys meaning we missed leading the group, not to mention missing out on £0.5m in prize money. He cost us a goal at the weekend costing us two points and top spot in the league. Others were also culpable against Hearts but if he just cleared his lines then we likely would have won that game and remained top.

He appears to have a confidence issue now and a break from the starting eleven wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I do actually think that may have happened if our next game was in the SPL but I do think it being a Euro game means he will likely start as it will be seen as a break from the SPL and a chance for Tav to get back on his game.
 

stonewall Jackson

Well-Known Member
Brilliant, but until his chosen leader actually leads us to success then we can all be sceptical, particularly at this moment in time where he’s a massive liability.
Maybe Gerrard made a mistake in appointing Tavernier as captain, however if he did reverse his decision it would do more damage than good in the probable damage to the players confidence and also Gerrard admitting he made the initial error.

Tavernier is exhibiting signs of the player he was under Warburton this season. Lack of confidence and basic errors in high profile games.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
you would certainly try it

you wouldn't go on doing the same thing expecting it to change
The guy has skill and is a good footballer. He could easily slot in one step forward with someone else at RB.

Surely SG can see that too.

He's good going forward but has brain farts defending.
 

temperance

Well-Known Member
There's a chunk of our support who have never liked him and never will sadly.

Flanagan has became Cafu the longer he's been out.
There are some prominent Bears whose abuse of Tav has been disgraceful, there’s no doubt about that. But as someone who has defended him rigorously, he needs a rest, and he needs it now.
 

Mondraker

Well-Known Member
I’m a big fan of Tav and always try my best at defending him.

Yes he’s cost us a few big goals this season but some of the absolute nonsense I’ve read on here about him is absolutely dreadful.

People need to try and remember last season how good he was for us and the majority of our good attacking play came from him.

He seems to be going through some sort of mental block at the moment. Maybe instead of the “strip him of the captaincy” brigade continue to hound him, why don’t we try and give him full support as we all know he has the ability to turn it round.

You don’t just become shite over night

And let’s be honest if our Managers sticking by him I think we should maybe at least give it a go
Him being great last season doesnt help us this season.

You're right though hes only cost us a few big goals this season. I mean hes only a defender, what was he meant to do?

At what point is enough enough? When it costs us 3 points? A cup? A league?

Where should the line be drawn?

I'm not one for hounding players, they are only on the pitch because the manager puts them there but a change is needed.
 

JW1988

Well-Known Member
To be honest mate it sounds like you do have a problem with it. Football fans have always disagreed with managers decisions, have always debated tactics, team selections etc. It’s part of the fun of being a fan and it’ll always be that way. It would be a bit dull if we said “aye well we lost that game but let’s not talk about why Morelos was dropped because we’re armchair managers and the gaffer must have known better”.

I agree with what you say about twitter and all that nonsense though. Anyone who sends any direct criticism to players on any social media platform is a compete and utter fanny. In fact I’ll say the same of anyone who hurls abuse from the stands, I’ve sat beside some real cretins over the years who turn up every second week to do little else than sit there and hurl abuse at the players.
I question decisions as much as the next, but don’t pass the stuff off as facts , I’m opinionated but there’s a way to go about it
 

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
Him being great last season doesnt help us this season.

You're right though hes only cost us a few big goals this season. I mean hes only a defender, what was he meant to do?

At what point is enough enough? When it costs us 3 points? A cup? A league?

Where should the line be drawn?

I'm not one for hounding players, they are only on the pitch because the manager puts them there but a change is needed.
Who would you start at RB on Thursday and Sunday?
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
The guy has skill and is a good footballer. He could easily slot in one step forward with someone else at RB.

Surely SG can see that too.

He's good going forward but has brain farts defending.
We don't play left or right midfielders though.
 

All of the Lights

Well-Known Member
I’m a big fan of Tav and always try my best at defending him.

Yes he’s cost us a few big goals this season but some of the absolute nonsense I’ve read on here about him is absolutely dreadful.

People need to try and remember last season how good he was for us and the majority of our good attacking play came from him.

He seems to be going through some sort of mental block at the moment. Maybe instead of the “strip him of the captaincy” brigade continue to hound him, why don’t we try and give him full support as we all know he has the ability to turn it round.

You don’t just become shite over night

And let’s be honest if our Managers sticking by him I think we should maybe at least give it a go
I started a similar thread after the game against Young Boys.

Vast majority of folk that seem to thrive on slagging him off and show complete disrespect to both Tav and our manager.

“take the armband off him” crowd are as clueless as it gets. There is literally not one positive to be gained from that.
 
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Cyberniv

Well-Known Member
I'm a huge Tav supporter and revelled in his form last season (and the season before) because I felt like a pig in shît amongst so many Tav-detractors.

But I have to take my medicine this season because he's been shîte so far.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's a great player, but the only way he'll get people back onside is to improve his form. Well, get most people back on side, because there are some that simply don't like him.
I think many who are “huge Tav supporters” are blind to his weaknesses. He can be good playing against one man up without being pressed. When pressed he is not a good enough a defender for a full back. His much lauded crossing is random to put it mildly, tends to ball watching and his concentration can lapse too often.
“A great player” naw, he doesn’t fall into that category for me. He is a decent enough player, but it may be the level we have moved up to could be a step too far.
 

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
Rightly or wrongly, I'd say Tav has one more big mistake before folk properly turn. 3 in two matches that has cost us 5 points is bad enough, one more in the next month or so and he'll have negated all previous credit.

Tav of last year was unplayable and key to the success of the team, based on this year so far, i'd be less concerned if he was out the side.
Exactly why he should be removed from the firing line.
It's more about protecting him than dropping him.
Sometimes we cannot see the wood for the trees.
 

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