Tav/Patterson - alternative formation?

AriseSirWalter

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I’ve seen very little of preseason unfortunately so not sure if it’s obvious but how do we think Gerrard would best incorporate both Tav and Patterson in the team?

I can’t see an obvious answer to be honest, I don’t think either can be pushed forward to the midfield or #10 spot, so would require a change in formation.

Also, I don’t see any formation that would allow the two to use their strengths, both want to attack from deep areas and not sure either is comfortable taking the ball with back to goal either as a #10 or inverted FB position.

I would like to see us trying 3 at the back, I doubt it’ll happen but like the flexibility it’d give. Either as 3-1-4-2 or 3-4-2-1, mastering another formation would make us even more difficult to play against. 3-4-2-1 would maybe allow for both Tav and Patterson but think there are other players better suited.
 
I think the Gaffer is pulling folks legs frankly. His mantra has always been to have 2 quality players for every position, not have every player being able to play 2 positions ffs.

Does anyone seriously see him playing guys out of position? Or to adopt a more defensive formation with 3 at the back!?

If Gerrard wanted to play wingers, he would buy wingers! He's not Steve Clarke, he doesn't just have to make the best of what the gene pool has provided this generation.
 
I don't think it's going to work but both players are so good it's worth at least trying it.
I agree. Patterson will get plenty of game time this season and it gives us the opportunity to rest Tav. As good as Patterson is he is still young and plenty of time for him. If Tav loses form or gets injured we can relax knowing he is available.

Plus I just can't see it working and not worth it to keep players happy. We have Aribo, Sakala, Wright and Hagi that imo ate all better options on the right hand side. Tavs strength is coming from deep and linking with the front 3 as well as his delivery.

I wouldn't even risk it in the league cup for example. Play Patterson in those games instead.
 
We won't be changing style or formation to play both Tavernier and Patterson imo as it won't work and it would mean big changes in how we play.

Tavernier is our main RB and Patterson will see plenty of game time this season can see him starting quite a few games.
 
I don't think it's going to work but both players are so good it's worth at least trying it.
I agree. But Gerrard may keep trying it in games that are already won to give Patterson more game time. Tavs not a midfielder IMO. But younger players can be trained to be. Just a thought but Patterson has all the skills.
 
Looked like he tried a 451 yesterday with Tav and Middleton as actual wingers instead of the usual inverted forwards we play

Might be handy for games we need to stretch teams who congest the middle.
 
3 at the back is not necessarily more defensive. 3-1-4-2 could allow 6 very attacking players, it depends on how much control of the ball we have.


I think the Gaffer is pulling folks legs frankly. His mantra has always been to have 2 quality players for every position, not have every player being able to play 2 positions ffs.

Does anyone seriously see him playing guys out of position? Or to adopt a more defensive formation with 3 at the back!?

If Gerrard wanted to play wingers, he would buy wingers! He's not Steve Clarke, he doesn't just have to make the best of what the gene pool has provided this generation.
 
I think the Gaffer is pulling folks legs frankly. His mantra has always been to have 2 quality players for every position, not have every player being able to play 2 positions ffs.

Does anyone seriously see him playing guys out of position? Or to adopt a more defensive formation with 3 at the back!?

If Gerrard wanted to play wingers, he would buy wingers! He's not Steve Clarke, he doesn't just have to make the best of what the gene pool has provided this generation.

There's having 2 players for every position and then there's having 2 players that play in a 'specialist' position that are as good as Tav and Patterson.

Managers say they like the headache that gives them but it think they just say that. Must be a total pain in the erse having these 2 for right neck B-)
 
3 at the back is not necessarily more defensive. 3-1-4-2 could allow 6 very attacking players, it depends on how much control of the ball we have.

Have you seen our fullbacks? At present we play with 8 "very attacking players" - 9 8+if you count goldson long balls!
 
I agree, I wouldn’t be surprised if we tinker with the formation but I don’t think it’ll be to accommodate Tav and Patterson.

We won't be changing style or formation to play both Tavernier and Patterson imo as it won't work and it would mean big changes in how we play.

Tavernier is our main RB and Patterson will see plenty of game time this season can see him starting quite a few games.
 
Yes, in every game except for this preseason.

If we had enough control of the ball one of the centre halves could be dropped with a back 3 of Tav Goldson Barasic with Kamara/Davis/Jack sitting in front protecting in a 3-1-4-2 is more attacking than our current set up.

Have you seen our fullbacks? At present we play with 8 "very attacking players" - 9 8+if you count goldson long balls!
 
Just a little reminder to everyone that it was only 6 years ago we were going into an opening game of the season with Wallace and Foster as our fullbacks - fast forward a few years and I think it’s our standout group in comparison to every other team in Scotland - our fullbacks are a country mile ahead of the next best teams (probably hibs) in the league this year
 
Two good players, however, play them then who drops out? Do we lessen the impact of Tav?

Good to try these things as you dont know what will happen through the season though.
 
Let them fight it out for the position, no point disrupting everything to try and shoehorn them both into the 11 like Scotland. We have plenty of good players all over the park and its healthy competition that will undoubtedly breed success.
 
No need to completely change our set up just to incorporate a player/s. It seems inevitable that we will be playing two games a week until January and we will have to utilise the squad more if we want more success. Patterson will get plenty of game time within that period.

We can't expect Tavernier to play even game again as it could significantly cut short his career in the long term. Smart game management and conditioning is key for players at Tav's age (especially after a serious knee injury) and I'm confident that the manager feels the same way. Patterson is more than good enough to step in when required and that could easily lead to at least 12-15 appearances from this weekend until January. Maybe even more.
 
Yes, in every game except for this preseason.

If we had enough control of the ball one of the centre halves could be dropped with a back 3 of Tav Goldson Barasic with Kamara/Davis/Jack sitting in front protecting in a 3-1-4-2 is more attacking than our current set up.

Playing with only 1 centre back?!? From memory that's basically why we lost to St mirren in the league Cup no? Had to take helander off and gambled on an extra attacking player to try and get equaliser (which we did in fairness) but then got stuffed at a last minute corner?

I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable with ever corner or set-piece thinking we only had a single centre back on the pitch. And if I was the opposition there is no question I would be targeting that!
 
Only way I see it working is if we go for a Chelsea style 343. Keeps the attacking shape similar with two 10s, then you’ve got Tav and Borna on the wings.

Having said that there weren’t many times last season domestically where I found myself thinking ‘what we need here is a third CB on the pitch’

Could be a good option for Europe though
 
Yes, in every game except for this preseason.

If we had enough control of the ball one of the centre halves could be dropped with a back 3 of Tav Goldson Barasic with Kamara/Davis/Jack sitting in front protecting in a 3-1-4-2 is more attacking than our current set up.
Seen some wild suggestions for the 3 at the back but this beats them all, Tav and Barisic at centre back is a beauty
 
Patterson is as good a young talent as I've seen at Ibrox but he is still behind Tav by a distance. Not a fan of moving either player out of position.

If we are as successful as I expect we will be, we will need both as right backs, as it's going to be a long season again.
 
I don’t think we should be changing our formation to fit both in. Play one or the other, they will both be used over a season. It reminds me of Scotland trying to play 2 left backs in Tierney and Robertson, they just end up running into each other’s space half the time.
 
I’ve seen very little of preseason unfortunately so not sure if it’s obvious but how do we think Gerrard would best incorporate both Tav and Patterson in the team?

I can’t see an obvious answer to be honest, I don’t think either can be pushed forward to the midfield or #10 spot, so would require a change in formation.

Also, I don’t see any formation that would allow the two to use their strengths, both want to attack from deep areas and not sure either is comfortable taking the ball with back to goal either as a #10 or inverted FB position.

I would like to see us trying 3 at the back, I doubt it’ll happen but like the flexibility it’d give. Either as 3-1-4-2 or 3-4-2-1, mastering another formation would make us even more difficult to play against. 3-4-2-1 would maybe allow for both Tav and Patterson but think there are other players better suited.
We won’t be incorporating both except in rare occasions when the tactics suit, quite simply they are not good enough to dislodge the quality we have in midfield.

It’s really not happening
 
My feeling is the most likely success would be playing a back three with Patterson playing the right sided position in that trio , and Tavernier playing in the layer in front ether in widest rhs or inside widest right .
The most obvious difficulty with that is which other CDs / Defenders do we have who could play a back three in the Centre and Left. I don’t think we have those players at this time .

but the real Q to ask is Why are we doing this , for what benefit and is it what’s best for the team and club .
 
They will be fitted in by Tav playing right of a back 4 and Patterson on the bench as cover and to come in when its suitable to rest Tav.

As much as Patterson is excellent, he is still well behind Tav in an attacking sense not to mention him being our Captain. He will get plenty game time and if hes patient he has the ability to be our RB for years to come. Gerrard wont squeeze them into the same team IMO.
 
I don't think incorporating both would work. Tav 1st pick with Patterson getting a lot more action this year is what I expect.

The fact we have a player of Patterson's quality as backup is fantastic.
 
Massive tin hat on, but Steve Clark seems to have figured out how to play both Robertson and Tierney, with one being left wing back and the other on the left of the three centre halves. Could that work with Tav and Patterson?

Another thing to consider is that playing them both means someone else has to drop out - is Tav in midfield a better option than e.g. Kamara or Arfield?
 
Massive tin hat on, but Steve Clark seems to have figured out how to play both Robertson and Tierney, with one being left wing back and the other on the left of the three centre halves. Could that work with Tav and Patterson?

Another thing to consider is that playing them both means someone else has to drop out - is Tav in midfield a better option than e.g. Kamara or Arfield?

You're gonna need something stronger than a tin hat to suggest that Clarke is some sort of tactical mastermind B-) . His results should tell you that playing both Robertson and Tierney hasn't been working that well at all.

And no way is Tav a better option in midfield than Kamara or Arfield. He is a right back and should stay there. Patterson will still get plenty of game time.
 
Massive tin hat on, but Steve Clark seems to have figured out how to play both Robertson and Tierney, with one being left wing back and the other on the left of the three centre halves. Could that work with Tav and Patterson?

Another thing to consider is that playing them both means someone else has to drop out - is Tav in midfield a better option than e.g. Kamara or Arfield?
It’s worked wonders that. 1 goal and 1 point from the Euros. He’s shoehorned the 2 in to the detriment of the team. For what it’s worth I think Tierney should be starting LB of a 4 and Robertson dropped.
 
I would be OK with Nathan starting against Livi and keeping Tav for the really big game in midweek.
Since we can use 5 subs, get 3-0 up against Livi and change 1/2 the team.
We must get to the CL groups.
 
I can't see our coaches over complicating matters, and the Sheff Utd/ Tierney at Scotland model of a ball carrying Centre half Bougherra style would be over complicating things.
4 1 4 1 away in Europe with Patterson overlapping an advanced Tav, with Kent and Borna on the other side with a counter attack is salivating
 
I would be OK with Nathan starting against Livi and keeping Tav for the really big game in midweek.
Since we can use 5 subs, get 3-0 up against Livi and change 1/2 the team.
We must get to the CL groups.
Both will also be great as impact subs if it isn't working for the starter. A young Patterson running at you will terrify any full back, especially a tiring one. Likewise a fresh Tav in the later stages! With the added bonus of his delivery from dead balls. We've gone from only really ever having 2 Right backs of note since the heady days of Gary Stevens! Ricksen (but moved to midfield and best remembered in there) and Hutton (only had a small spell of him at his flying best peak)
Like buses, now we have 2 sensational players
 
I'd quite happily see us never try it, with a bit of luck we'll play 60 games this season, more than enough for them to share. Also the disaster scenario of playing them both and the both being injured leaving us without a RB.
Tav for the big games, Patterson for games in between the big games, young Nathan has time on his hands and will be first choice soon enough.
 
There is no way we can drop Tav in big games. His 17or 19 goals last season was glorious, plus, he takes the penalties.
 
I agree, and that’s why I said it’d depend on the amount of control we have but it shows that a back 3 isn’t always more defensive formation.

Playing with only 1 centre back?!? From memory that's basically why we lost to St mirren in the league Cup no? Had to take helander off and gambled on an extra attacking player to try and get equaliser (which we did in fairness) but then got stuffed at a last minute corner?

I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable with ever corner or set-piece thinking we only had a single centre back on the pitch. And if I was the opposition there is no question I would be targeting that!
 
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