Tavernier as a number 8?

[Clay Davis]

He has the right attributes and you see it happening a lot on the continent (Kimmich, Alana and Lahm obvious recent examples - all Bayern oddly).

I think it is something we will be looking at and potentially trying next season. Patterson is simply too good to be playing second fiddle.

 

[Blueranger45]

somebody been using the headliner Tavernier card and changing the position in-game in FIFA a bit too much me thinks

 

[roscof]

Because we have a talent that will get wasted sitting on the bench in Patterson , why not try to use both?

Because it just doesn't work. For a start, you will lose the effect of the right back.
You are filling his space.
Second, the modern wing back is most effective when he sees the whole picture
From the back of the play. Not halfway up the pitch, where they generally lose their dimensions, opposed to only looking forward.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

He is such a big part of our system because he comes from deep.

Technically he is a good footballer but he is far more effective at right back than he ever would from midfield.

 

[Mezzala]

Because it just doesn't work. For a start, you will lose the effect of the right back.
You are filling his space.
Second, the modern wing back is most effective when he sees the whole picture
From the back of the play. Not halfway up the pitch, where they generally lose their dimensions, opposed to only looking forward.

Tavernier isn't a wing back

 

[Kwodman]

I just don't see it. He thrives on space to drive into, and plays on the overlap. He's phenomenal at that moving him in to midfield just nullifies his strengths. I think Patterson will need to be patient. For a couple of seasons. Im sure he will get game time.
Also there is no point in trying to squeeze both into the team because they are good. Especially when it would affect the balance and the way we play as tav and borna play their roles to a tee.

 

[Masonboyne]

Seen the point made on twitter so I thought I'd raise it here.

Tavernier has all the attributes of a very good number 8 at this level, he's athletic, has a good range of passing and is brilliant at carrying the ball forward in wide or central areas of the pitch. He'd arguably be an upgrade on anyone we have in that position and it allows us to play Patterson regularly.

People might think it's a ridiculous decision but I think it's worth the conversation at least.

I suggested this to a mate yesterday only reason to keep Patterson in the team. Can't see it but hey ho you never know

 

[JAH90]

We should try playing Tav as a right winger and let him and Patterson interchange during a match. Not how we line up with an out n out winger but we’ll need to tweak and evolve so might work. Would be an incredibly strong right side for us if it came off

 

[UncleG]

Seen the point made on twitter so I thought I'd raise it here.

Tavernier has all the attributes of a very good number 8 at this level, he's athletic, has a good range of passing and is brilliant at carrying the ball forward in wide or central areas of the pitch. He'd arguably be an upgrade on anyone we have in that position and it allows us to play Patterson regularly.

People might think it's a ridiculous decision but I think it's worth the conversation at least.

Fair enough that you are just making a point or whatever but while you were writing this you knew for an absolute 100% certainty that this is never going to happen.

 

[UncleG]

We should try playing Tav as a right winger and let him and Patterson interchange during a match. Not how we line up with an out n out winger but we’ll need to tweak and evolve so might work. Would be an incredibly strong right side for us if it came off

We shouldn't. Hes a right back. Having 2 great options in one position doesn't mean you need to start playing them all over the park to suit one another. Football doesn't work like that, and the strong competition for places is a good thing to have.

 

[UncleG]

Because it just doesn't work. For a start, you will lose the effect of the right back.
You are filling his space.
Second, the modern wing back is most effective when he sees the whole picture
From the back of the play. Not halfway up the pitch, where they generally lose their dimensions, opposed to only looking forward.

Spot on.

 

[Mezzala]

We shouldn't. Hes a right back. Having 2 great options in one position doesn't mean you need to start playing them all over the park to suit one another. Football doesn't work like that, and the strong competition for places is a good thing to have.

Kimmich is now one of the best midfielders in the world

 

[UncleG]

I suggested this to a mate yesterday only reason to keep Patterson in the team. Can't see it but hey ho you never know

Mate in football this is what you want, you want atleast 2 brilliant players fighting it out for one position, that's healthy for the squad. Just cos you have 2 strong players doesnt mean you start messing around with their positions.

 

[UncleG]

Kimmich is now one of the best midfielders in the world

And how did Kimmich playing in that position come around?

 

[tazzabear]

Best right back we've had in many years and we move him to somewhere he's less effective?

Erm... no!

What do you think of the other way, DH?
I posted on another thread that right mid is possibly our weakest area.
I’m thinking Patterson playing there allows him to learn more about the game.
This isn’t like the Tavernier in front of Flanagan argument.
There’d be no harm in Patterson adding another string to his bow.

 

[broxi_bear83]

You're both talking as if this wasn't done very succesfully with Ricksen in the past, I'm not saying that it's something we have to do but I dont think the topic warrants immiediate dismissal

Tbf Ricksen being moved further forward was the first thing to spring to mind, not saying it will work but has been done in the past.

 

[UncleG]

Kimmich is now one of the best midfielders in the world

Do you want two good players fighting for rb? Or one good one, and one who is garbage coming in when the main one is injured? Your answer will ofcourse be two good ones. You are all saying all this when you know for a fact the management will never do it anyway

 

[UncleG]

What do you think of the other way, DH?
I posted on another thread that right mid is possibly our weakest area.
I’m thinking Patterson playing there allows him to learn more about the game.
This isn’t like the Tavernier in front of Flanagan argument.
There’d be no harm in Patterson adding another string to his bow.

What happens when Patterson gets injured?

 

[Barisic's Bandage]

A la Philip Lahm

 

[UncleG]

I just don't see it. He thrives on space to drive into, and plays on the overlap. He's phenomenal at that moving him in to midfield just nullifies his strengths. I think Patterson will need to be patient. For a couple of seasons. Im sure he will get game time.
Also there is no point in trying to squeeze both into the team because they are good. Especially when it would affect the balance and the way we play as tav and borna play their roles to a tee.

Exactly

 

[Dado's Bandage]

Utterly ludicrous Football Manager nonsense. Tav is a right back, the best right back we have. We now have a brilliant understudy who will become his replacement in years to come. In the meantime he will get plenty opportunities as we try to win various competitions. I can’t understand this mental chat just because we have a couple of players in the one position, just enjoy it!

 

[RobbenHood]

Move our best right back into CM to accommodate our second choice right back

That’s something McCoist done; Horrible flash back to Papac playing CM

 

[SpikeRFC]

I don't think there's any harm in trying him in midfield in any of the remaining league games.
On paper he has all the right attributes for a number 8,but it is obviously very different to actually play the position.

Anyway, I think there's no chance the gaffer will try it.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

Kimmich is now one of the best midfielders in the world

Doesn’t mean it would work for Tav.

How long did Kimmich play as a full back in relation to Tav?

 

[Clementime]

Was speaking to my mate about this yesterday. Maybe more of a winger than number 8 though.

I don't think Tav has the right dynamic to play winger.

I'd say his strength is knocking the ball past players and hitting the gas.

Wingers are more contained and more often rely on quick feet to "skin" a wingback.

His deliveries are good enough, but I'm not sure he has that turning in a phone box element.

Just my initial thought.

 

[Brother Crockett]

What about the other way about? Could Patterson's obvious attributes make him a number 8 in the future? You could argue that our system requires a huge amount of athleticism in the middle of the park. Patterson brings that in spades and looks very comfortable and productive on the ball for one with so little first team experience.

 

[Mezzala]

Doesn’t mean it would work for Tav.

How long did Kimmich play as a full back in relation to Tav?

It was just a report to someone saying that isn't how football works, fullbacks move into midfield/cb when they get older all the time.

 

[SMIB]

No thank you

 

[bilkobear]

Why would we actively try to convert our best right back into a completely new position?

What’s the point?

Tav is a great all-round footballer, so moving him around the pitch isn't particularly difficult.
He has a very good range of passing and close control, plus when he goes forward he has no problems in linking play whether it is outside or inside of the field of play.
He can also get into the box and finish from a variety of areas.

Some of the world's greatest players have been moved around in their positions.
It isn't exactly revolutionary.

 

[Polar bear]

Why would we actively try to convert our best right back into a completely new position?

What’s the point?

Patterson has got to play imho.
Probably the second best right back in the country.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

It was just a report to someone saying that isn't how football works, fullbacks move into midfield/cb when they get older all the time.

My issue with doing that with Tav is how effective he is from right back, I honestly don’t think he could contribute those kind of stars to justify the tactical change.

 

[KensingtonBlue]

Why not try Patterson in midfield?

He's younger and has time on his side to learn a new position.

 

[ChildOfGoth]

In the right fixture I’d be happy to see it tried

 

[Angus Og]

Utterly ludicrous Football Manager nonsense. Tav is a right back, the best right back we have. We now have a brilliant understudy who will become his replacement in years to come. In the meantime he will get plenty opportunities as we try to win various competitions. I can’t understand this mental chat just because we have a couple of players in the one position, just enjoy it!

Sandy Jardine was an attacker/midfielder who was turned into one of the greatest full backs we have ever seen...then became POTY at Hearts as a sweeper.

Davie Smith was a midfielder who became a jewel of a sweeper.

John Greig was a midfielder who became a right back, then a left back, and lifted trebles. He was even tried (unsuccessfully) at centre forward after scoring something like 5 goals in 3 games.

Davie Cooper was tried at Centre Forward.

Derek Parlane scored against Bayern at right half.

Derek Johnstone...well, I need not go on.


Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

How do you know if you don't try?

 

[Leopold]

 

[Thornliebank_Bear]

Utterly ludicrous Football Manager nonsense. Tav is a right back, the best right back we have. We now have a brilliant understudy who will become his replacement in years to come. In the meantime he will get plenty opportunities as we try to win various competitions. I can’t understand this mental chat just because we have a couple of players in the one position, just enjoy it!

ok thats more than enough bullshit for the one day

 

[Pliskers]

He continues to develop the defensive side of his game and his role as a winning Rangers captain, I’d rather he kept on that trajectory. If the issue is what to do with Patterson, then if the boy wants game time and Tav is in the way, so be it. Let’s not forget he is only 19. Yes he has done well but he has a lot to learn and grow into.

 

[steve1873]

Why would we actively try to convert our best right back into a completely new position?

What’s the point?

Tavernier is a fantastic player. Patterson is a very good player also, with potential to be brilliant. If there was a way to accommodate them both and not be detrimental to the overall balance of side, then anything is worth looking at IMO.

 

[Silgni RFC]

Patterson is an absolutely cracking player but still hasn’t fully developed in terms of his body. He is a great option to have but think people have short memories on Tav, he was having a sublime season and even when his form dipped a bit in January he was still producing goals, assists & clean sheets so it is not in our best interest to move him to accommodate Nathan.

Tav hasn’t had much injuries but sometimes once you get one you start to get more, and with him 30 now id expect that, there will be plenty chances for Patterson imo.

 

[MSF]

Its a far, far better shout than "why don't we push Tav one forward?" anyway.

 

[KGer1872]

Threads like these give me the shivers thinking back to abominations like Lee McCulloch at CB.

 

[Disraeli]

It may or may not work.
I don’t think it is completely outrageous to suggest we should consider if we have options which would allow Patterson and Tav in the same team. I’d be very surprised if the management team have not themselves given it some thought.

 

[bilkobear]

Sandy Jardine was an attacker/midfielder who was turned into one of the greatest full backs we have ever seen...then became POTY at Hearts as a sweeper.

Davie Smith was a midfielder who became a jewel of a sweeper.

John Greig was a midfielder who became a right back, then a left back, and lifted trebles. He was even tried (unsuccessfully) at centre forward after scoring something like 5 goals in 3 games.

Davie Cooper was tried at Centre Forward.

Derek Parlane scored against Bayern at right half.

Derek Johnstone...well, I need not go on.


Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

How do you know if you don't try?

Davie Smith was actually an inside forward.
John Greig was sometimes a centre back.
Derek Johnstone could actually play anywhere on the pitch and still be the best player in a game.
Recently we saw Gareth Bale moved from full-back further up the pitch to great success.

But I agree, it doesn't always work, much of it depends on the player having both the ability and the mentality plus the intelligence to take instructions to enable him to fit into the team shape.
Tav ticks all of those boxes.

 

[Mols]

Tavernier is a right back, and thats where he should play

 

[Mezzala]

Threads like these give me the shivers thinking back to abominations like Lee McCulloch at CB.

Why? It's nowhere near the same thing

 

[DelPiero]

Seen the point made on twitter so I thought I'd raise it here.

Tavernier has all the attributes of a very good number 8 at this level, he's athletic, has a good range of passing and is brilliant at carrying the ball forward in wide or central areas of the pitch. He'd arguably be an upgrade on anyone we have in that position and it allows us to play Patterson regularly.

People might think it's a ridiculous decision but I think it's worth the conversation at least.

Lee Hodson just behind him to really let Tavernier flourish as well.

 

[KGer1872]

Why? It's nowhere near the same thing

You're a tad sensitive about this aren't you

How is it nowhere near the same thing? In both cases you have a player being shoehorned into a position they are not suited to.

Away and play Football Manager if you want to do that.

 

[WalterLoyal]

He had a short run in central midfield under Warburton with Hodson playing at right back, one match was a 2-0 win at home to Hearts. He performed well but it was a long time ago and I don't see Gerrard giving it a try given he's now in his absolute prime and performing better than ever at right back.

 

[Mezzala]

You're a tad sensitive about this aren't you

How is it nowhere near the same thing? In both cases you have a player being shoehorned into a position they are not suited to.

Away and play Football Manager if you want to do that.

I'm not sensitive, it's just a bit annoying to see people offer takes like yours that don't hold much substance.

Tavernier does have literally every attribute that you want in a number 8. It might not work amazingly well in practice but when you list everything that he can consistently bring to the team there is no reason to immediately dismiss the suggestion.

Was Walter Smith playing football manager when he put McCulloch into midfield after his long(ish) career as a forward? Don't pick an example that can easily be turned around on you if you're going to try and belittle someone

 

[Angus Og]

Davie Smith was actually an inside forward.
John Greig was sometimes a centre back.
Derek Johnstone could actually play anywhere on the pitch and still be the best player in a game.
Recently we saw Gareth Bale moved from full-back further up the pitch to great success.

But I agree, it doesn't always work, much of it depends on the player having both the ability and the mentality plus the intelligence to take instructions to enable him to fit into the team shape.
Tav ticks all of those boxes.

I was trying to characterise Smith in terms that younger Bears would get.

I don't remember Greig as a centre back though. I wouldn't consider right half in that category. More of a defensive midfielder for me. Scored a last minute winner against Italy while playing right back (as I know you are well aware), and filled in for us at left back for years.