Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

Did the terms of the 5 way agreement state that we would have no comeback against the footballing authorites' ruling in the event of oldco becoming somewhat exonerated?
 
Someone also has to ask questions of those three Scottish judges sitting in a Civil Court who ruled against years of tax precedence and two Tax Tribunals which were manned by senior judges who were experts in all taxation matters, all because ‘it didn’t seem fair’.
 
deedle said:
The line about ‘nailing Rangers to the floor’ was originally attributed to Lawwell.

TBH, some of the claims on here and figures mentioned are well wide of the mark. I don’t think this helps our case.
Click to expand...

Deedle do you remember there were transcripts of the meetings Reid and Lawwell where doing in Celtic clubs at the time?

I remember reading them and that’s were the quotes came from and at the time we mostly just dismissed them as being crackpots playing to the gallery, I’ve not seen them since, but like everything else on the internet, they’ll be somewhere.
 
MDC said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1194928280710852608
Click to expand...

Well, Police Scotland.

I'm not wanting to get any bear into bother, but if you simply ask Mr Hood for the name of his senior manager, that would be a good starting place for your prosecutions.

I'm no Taggart or Columbo or Kojak, but I'd say this Tweet should trigger some fairly basic police work, no? Then you can seal the evidence in traceable bags before you hand it to the PF to lose
 
As a shareholder in the old company, is there the possibility of some kind of class action against HMRC and the football authorities?

Not just for financial loss of the share value we owned. But for reputation, lost earnings, lost opportunity, unfairly removed from top division, etc?

I would be up for adding my name to it and chipping in to fund any legal advice.

Or do we think Mr King will already be doing this on behalf of the club?

In an ideal world, damages would be far more than the amount owed to creditors by the old company, which would allow any debts to be repaid, the company actually in credit, both companies merge together, meaning Rangers get cash out of it.
 
Bowery Boy said:
Incredible.
Click to expand...

Not really.

I've been droning on about this for years, that Centre One is absolutely rammed with those of an Irish Catholic heritage, and that they have been deliberately leaking confidential information about this tax case and about a tax payer's affairs illegally for years.

And to date, how many people have been arrested by Police Scotland in relation to these offences that undoubtedly contributed to the loss of tens of millions of pounds of tax payers money?

Correct. None

Nobody
 
Hubert74 said:
So normally I'm a very calm person, those of you who regularly engage and debate with me know that though I have strong opinions I try to be fair and balanced.

But this is insane and I'm genuinely furious. So if someone can calm me down after this rant then I'd be much appreciated.

So HMRC destroyed us illegally. Is that correct?
And the SPFL and all the other clubs decided to stick the boot into us awful cheating hun scum. Is that also correct?
And all the while across town there's been a 40 year long paedophile ring operating and now being actively covered up and protected not only by those at the top of that disgusting club but powerful people within the political class. Would that also be accurate?

What the hell are those at the top of the pile doing such that a government organisation was allowed to destroy a club with no justification whilst the government refuses to even acknowledge the worst, absolute worst, cover up in our country's history.

Am I going too far here? Do I need to take a step back? Someone please talk some sense to me because I love this club and everyone else here. Even those who I have been rude to and shown me rudeness. Those who I have debated fiercely with and those who consider me a fool are still family as far as I'm concerned. And family looks after each other when times are tough.
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They have spent years sorry decades getting Celtic minded people at the top of govt, media, football authorities, tax man etc. It started when there ancestors moved over after the famine. Played the victim card to look weak while slowly working there way up. accelerated during 90s/00s when we were to busy winning to notice. Now they are untouchable . They waited for a opportunity and took it . The peado ring will come to nothing. Maybe small claims for victims but no damage to them. Is it even the end? Look at the rise of support for Scottish independence in last decade. They won’t stop until every part of our identity is gone or crippled to the point of no return
 
dh1963 said:
As a shareholder in the old company, is there the possibility of some kind of class action against HMRC and the football authorities?

Not just for financial loss of the share value we owned. But for reputation, lost earnings, lost opportunity, unfairly removed from top division, etc?

I would be up for adding my name to it and chipping in to fund any legal advice.

Or do we think Mr King will already be doing this on behalf of the club?

In an ideal world, damages would be far more than the amount owed to creditors by the old company, which would allow any debts to be repaid, the company actually in credit, both companies merge together, meaning Rangers get cash out of it.
Click to expand...

I'd be up for taking my share of the crowdfunding.

I'm also an oldco shareholder
 
Does anyone who knows about this stuff know what possibilities could come from this? Liquidation reversal, Debts written off, compensation for damages? Whats likely to happen from this.
 
Hubert74 said:
So normally I'm a very calm person, those of you who regularly engage and debate with me know that though I have strong opinions I try to be fair and balanced.

But this is insane and I'm genuinely furious. So if someone can calm me down after this rant then I'd be much appreciated.

So HMRC destroyed us illegally. Is that correct?
And the SPFL and all the other clubs decided to stick the boot into us awful cheating hun scum. Is that also correct?
And all the while across town there's been a 40 year long paedophile ring operating and now being actively covered up and protected not only by those at the top of that disgusting club but powerful people within the political class. Would that also be accurate?

What the hell are those at the top of the pile doing such that a government organisation was allowed to destroy a club with no justification whilst the government refuses to even acknowledge the worst, absolute worst, cover up in our country's history.

Am I going too far here? Do I need to take a step back? Someone please talk some sense to me because I love this club and everyone else here. Even those who I have been rude to and shown me rudeness. Those who I have debated fiercely with and those who consider me a fool are still family as far as I'm concerned. And family looks after each other when times are tough.
Click to expand...
Doesnt sound like u have went too far at all :rolleyes:
 
TN8 said:
Are we expecting to hear anything from Rangers/DK today or is it too soon?
Click to expand...
I’d imagine it would be with their legal team. There’s also some report due in December from BDO, might tell us more, so we may not get much in the short term. An acknowledgment that they’re aware and looking into it would do for now right enough.
 
Arminius said:
Not really.

I've been droning on about this for years, that Centre One is absolutely rammed with those of an Irish Catholic heritage, and that they have been deliberately leaking confidential information about this tax case and about a tax payer's affairs illegally for years.

And to date, how many people have been arrested by Police Scotland in relation to these offences that undoubtedly contributed to the loss of tens of millions of pounds of tax payers money?

Correct. None

Nobody
Click to expand...
Good chance that PS may now not toe the party line given that nikla and her gang are going after them cos of the bayho case. PS were exonerated but as that didnt suit narrative and theres a GE to be won a full public enquiry was launched.
 
Arminius said:
Not really.

I've been droning on about this for years, that Centre One is absolutely rammed with those of an Irish Catholic heritage, and that they have been deliberately leaking confidential information about this tax case and about a tax payer's affairs illegally for years.

And to date, how many people have been arrested by Police Scotland in relation to these offences that undoubtedly contributed to the loss of tens of millions of pounds of tax payers money?

Correct. None

Nobody
Click to expand...
Place is rife with nepotism, its like a mini 1990’s Monklands Council
 
BackJardine said:
Does anyone who knows about this stuff know what possibilities could come from this? Liquidation reversal, Debts written off, compensation for damages? Whats likely to happen from this.
Click to expand...
I mean we're going after the taxman. I'd like to say we should be able to count on the support of the entirety of Scottish football and society. After all, isn't Scotland a beacon of wonderfulness and tolerance? That's what the Scottish government and its supporters keep telling us.

Perhaps they could try proving it.

Do you know what genuinely makes me feel physically sick? Not only that you and I and anyone else who pays tax makes it possible for the HMRC to even function, but that we are nothing compared to all those who stash their funds abroad:
www.imf.org

The True Cost of Global Tax Havens – IMF F&D

Nicholas Shaxson explains why the many billions attracted by tax havens do harm to sending and receiving nations alike, and how best to tackle this global economic challenge.
www.imf.org
www.theguardian.com

UK and territories are 'greatest enabler' of tax avoidance, study says

UK’s ‘tax haven network’ ranked among top 10 in corporate tax haven index
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
fullfact.org

Tax: evasion and avoidance in the UK - Full Fact

In 2013-14, HMRC estimate that they lost about £2.7 billion through tax avoidance and £4.4 billion through tax evasion—so about £7.1 billion overall.
fullfact.org fullfact.org

So HMRC, instead of going after the billions that are being actively hidden from our country every single day they go after one of the proudest and historical institutions in the country, an institution known world wide.

Honestly, the more I think about it the angrier I get. And all the while the cover up that is going on across the city TO THIS DAY is still being ignored.
 
Hubert74 said:
So normally I'm a very calm person, those of you who regularly engage and debate with me know that though I have strong opinions I try to be fair and balanced.

But this is insane and I'm genuinely furious. So if someone can calm me down after this rant then I'd be much appreciated.

So HMRC destroyed us illegally. Is that correct?
And the SPFL and all the other clubs decided to stick the boot into us awful cheating hun scum. Is that also correct?
And all the while across town there's been a 40 year long paedophile ring operating and now being actively covered up and protected not only by those at the top of that disgusting club but powerful people within the political class. Would that also be accurate?

What the hell are those at the top of the pile doing such that a government organisation was allowed to destroy a club with no justification whilst the government refuses to even acknowledge the worst, absolute worst, cover up in our country's history.

Am I going too far here? Do I need to take a step back? Someone please talk some sense to me because I love this club and everyone else here. Even those who I have been rude to and shown me rudeness. Those who I have debated fiercely with and those who consider me a fool are still family as far as I'm concerned. And family looks after each other when times are tough.
Click to expand...

You are the soul of measured frustration and anger, simmering toward incandescent rage much like the rest of us, we have been living through a nightmare period in both Scottish political and sporting history. Those who precipitated the near destruction of our club have thus far made what looked like a clean getaway...Though now it seems their ‘house of cards’ might be about to collapse.

What has tended to stick in my throat is the vile decaying stench of hypocrisy and double standards which has seen those who truly are cheats and criminals revel in our pain. The fact that in real terms our club did nothing wrong whilst that filthy disgusting chamber of secrets was allowed to thrive from our demise...A demise in which they had a huge part to play!

Bolstered by a compliant media and a political vacuum which has allowed pygmy’s such as Sturgeon the power to actually %^*& her own agenda by backing the polarised minority over Scotland’s ingenious, indigenous population. This minority are only interested in where the power resides, hence the abandonment of labour when they became unelectable. (Nationalism was never their agenda unless it was that of the Irish)

This could well be the inflection point we have been waiting for, a pivotal moment in which we can drive a huge momentum shift towards our own agenda at the expense of the filth.

ps

The filths crimes include;

soft loans
At least 3 incidences of state aid in regard to property deals
Cover ups re child
Film tax avoidance
Collusion in the hiring of key SFA executives

and much more!
 
W*A*T*P said:
There must be a public enquiry into HMRC handling of our case.

This cannot go unchallenged. I will throw cash at any campaign that’s supports a full investigation into the goings on.
Click to expand...
I think it should be bigger. I think we must coordinate a campaign that involves all of us getting in touch with every representative we can think of. From local council to Westminster MPs and all in between. We need as much exposure of this as possible and if someone wants to start arranging boycotts then it's something we should consider.

There will be time to act, but we must start coordinating now.
 
there are other law firms out there, but those that say there is no claim, you are wrong. HMRC have grossly mishandled their case. And can be taken to task

Sue the Taxman? Yes you can! - Morgan Jones & Company Accountants

www.morganjones.co.uk www.morganjones.co.uk

1. Lawyers will know a case against HMRC is valid. Creditors never got a CVA due to HMRC.
2. David Murray was forced to sell to a chancer as no one would entertain the sale of the old company due to the fact of monies owed, placed by the Taxman

Small creditors, David King (£20m), David Murray all lost their investment due to HMRC over-exaggerated figures - fuckin £50 million!!!
 
Southpaws said:
You are the soul of measured frustration and anger, simmering toward incandescent rage much like the rest of us, we have been living through a nightmare period in both Scottish political and sporting history. Those who precipitated the near destruction of our club have thus far made what looked like a clean getaway...Though now it seems their ‘house of cards’ might be about to collapse.

What has tended to stick in my throat is the vile decaying stench of hypocrisy and double standards which has seen those who truly are cheats and criminals revel in our pain. The fact that in real terms our club did nothing wrong whilst that filthy disgusting chamber of secrets was allowed to thrive from our demise...A demise in which they had a huge part to play!

Bolstered by a compliant media and a political vacuum which has allowed pygmy’s such as Sturgeon the power to actually %^*& her own agenda by backing the polarised minority over Scotland’s ingenious, indigenous population. This minority are only interested in where the power resides, hence the abandonment of labour when they became unelectable. (Nationalism was never their agenda unless it was that of the Irish)

This could well be the inflection point we have been waiting for, a pivotal moment in which we can drive a huge momentum shift towards our own agenda at the expense of the filth.
Click to expand...
I also feel a little humiliated and guilty. I remember at the time my own brother was making similar points to this and I dismissed him. I trusted that the system was there to protect all people, and I'm the sort of person where if I think I or someone I love has made a mistake I'm willing to admit it.

I didn't believe him. I dismissed him. If you want to point a finger at those of us who were weak on this issue at the time then you can point it right at me. All I can do is apologise and commit to taking the fight to those who want to destroy us and turn us against each other.
 
Assuming this eventually plays out as The Times suggests and the outcome is our “bill” for EBT use should have been £20m, there should surely be a Govt inquiry into how and why HMRC cocked this up.

The implications are endless. Clearly, the club could have handled a bill of £20m and would have been a much more sellable asset back in 2011. We lost players for free that we could have banked millions for and lost untold millions in projected revenue whilst exiled from the top flight and Euro football.
 
gordon_blue said:
Our lawyers should be hitting them with a claim for all the lost revenue.

The squad who walked, the lack of European income, the lack of domestic income from not playing in the top league or the latter stages of cups.
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Sponsorship, merchandise revenue etc
 
Arminius said:
Not really.

I've been droning on about this for years, that Centre One is absolutely rammed with those of an Irish Catholic heritage, and that they have been deliberately leaking confidential information about this tax case and about a tax payer's affairs illegally for years.

And to date, how many people have been arrested by Police Scotland in relation to these offences that undoubtedly contributed to the loss of tens of millions of pounds of tax payers money?

Correct. None

Nobody
Click to expand...

Under FOI Act would it be possible to get an exact number of employees who have been/were caught leaking confidential infomration?
 
Hubert74 said:
I also feel a little humiliated and guilty. I remember at the time my own brother was making similar points to this and I dismissed him. I trusted that the system was there to protect all people, and I'm the sort of person where if I think I or someone I love has made a mistake I'm willing to admit it.

I didn't believe him. I dismissed him. If you want to call out those of us who were weak on this issue at the time then you can point it right at me. All I can do is apologise and commit to taking the fight to those who want to destroy us and turn us against each other.
Click to expand...

No Mate! This is a time for all of the Rangers family to come together and to drive our agenda, 20-20 hindsight is a beautiful thing! Some of us are somewhat annoying in our questioning of official or accepted narratives, it just the way we are wired!!

The most important thing is that we all see the wood for the trees now and go after those who fucked us with vigour!!
 
Not had a chance to read all posts so apologies if covered already but is there likely to be any tangible benefits to come our way from this.

At the very least we should be given sincere apologies from HMRC, Scottish football who punished the victim which such bloodlust but in terms of things that can benefit Rangers, is there likely to be anything that will come of it?

If HMRC are to be sued, would this not be to the benefit of murray/whyte/green, the thought makes me sick to my stomach to be honest.

I could see that oldco being reintegrated could be more likely now but it doesn't really go anyway to reversing the damage done to us.

In an ideal world Rangers would be reimbursed for the money lost and reputational damage but I can't see how that would happen when it's separate companies/owners. Could the 5WA give us some way of getting retribution from Scottish Football Authorities?

At least we shouldn't be subjected to the moral high ground from those who still turn a blind eye to the biggest scandal in Scottish football but my worry is apart from the uncontested trophies they won is that cel'ic have all their ducks in a row and even though we are the victims the long-term damage could be irreversible even taking into consideration how well we're doing this season.
 
TNT said:
OK, I have went through the oldco accounts.

The following was paid to EBT's
2000​
0​
2001​
1010000​
2002​
5176000​
2003​
6791000​
2004​
7252000​
2005​
7241000​
2006​
9192000​
2007​
4988000​
2008​
2291000​
2009​
2360000​
2010​
1358000​
Total
47659000​

That isn't the tax - that is the amount paid.

I am no tax expert - but, for the sake of arguements, if you say the tax/ni liability is 60%, then that comes in at £28595400

That is surely manageable?
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Pretty sure tax rate during these years was 40% meaning tax due of around £18.5m. NI contributions were capped at lower rate of earnings than today, likely tax and NI due probably around or below £20m.
 
At the very least I'm looking forward to 50 million in compensation, an extra ten points and guaranteed Champions League football for the years we were cheated out of the competition.

And the biggest, most grovelling apology ever.
 
Ambiorix said:
It's only right that Celtic should be stripped of their asterisked titles. ;)
Click to expand...
Actually yes, they should have those titles stripped. I hold this position in terms of their covering up paedophilia for the purposes of saving their reputation.
 
W*A*T*P said:
There must be a public enquiry into HMRC handling of our case.

This cannot go unchallenged. I will throw cash at any campaign that’s supports a full investigation into the goings on.
Click to expand...
There were photos on here a while back of HMRC employees at a tax case hallowe’en party. They were named and included a husband and wife.

Anyone got a link - I’m trying but not found it yet.
 
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