Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

John Dalrymple said:
I hope the board, do something,as its been pointed out cash witheld, our club castigated,,redundancies money lost, ie europe, assets stripped..
I know people on here say no, as it would lead to scottish clubs banned from europe, vut im so angry i want the sfa etc to pay and these clubs .. yet we still fill tere grounds
And LETS BE HONEST FANS WILL FILL TANNADICE NEXT SEASON IF THOSE BASTARDS GET PROMOTED
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I avnt and never will go to an away ground in premier league an not done so since our demise unfortunatley others will we should be squeezing the shit out of the bastards for what happened to us
 
Heads should roll over this! Countless numbers of people are affected, from employees, players, fans (who lost out in cold hard cash and season tickets via the boycott ), all the other creditors as a result of HMRC refusing a CVA, not to mention all the onerous contracts signed by the previous regime which means more lost revenue as a result. I could go on and on. The damage done is unfathomable, I for one would like some kind of justice!
 
vinnie said:
So lemme get this straight, it looks like we were only liable for £20m?

If so, that surely could have been managed? Whyte didn’t need to take the company into liquidation. He just did what he always did with his father in the 90s?

Is that it in a nutshell?
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It goes back before that - Murray didnt need to sell the club to the charlatan in the first place. Other people would have came forward if that was the total extent of the hmrc debt.
 
nemessis said:
Genuine mistake nope, deliberate yup it was planned and would have succeed if it wasn't for King and the bears, and our staunch support.
We still have to stop that fat slug Ashley bloodsucking off us.
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It’s fine us debating if here, adamant that we were stitched up from the word go, but we do need to separate the facts from suspicion.

And the facts remain that it was still Murray who brought this upon us; any exploitation of events thereafter would not have occurred without his
mismanagement.
 
Morty said:
Amazing how quickly that mob fall in line off the back of 1 mentally challenged blog.

All perpetuating the same narrative. I'd love to know who is running that tax case account.
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I'll regret asking, but what is the mentally challenged party line on this news today?
 
Sancus said:
There were photos on here a while back of HMRC employees at a tax case hallowe’en party. They were named and included a husband and wife.

Anyone got a link - I’m trying but not found it yet.
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Not got a link unfortunately but definitely remember seeing the same thing.
 
Remember we need to forget the HMRC fine re PAYE/NI as Whyte would never have had club OR been able to ruin it had we not had the bullshit about owing £140m....leaked by HMRC.

Also it is NOT £70m in total. Tom English wrong? Wow, just wow.
 
Out of interest does anyone have a timeline of events in terms of what happened with Lloyds, Murray deciding to sell, Whyte, big/wee tax case, Ticketus etc?

If so, might be worthwhile making a thread about it. I know a lot of people are confused and can't remember how events unfolded.
 
jdm1873 said:
It goes back before that - Murray didnt need to sell the club to the charlatan in the first place. Other people would have came forward if that was the total extent of the hmrc debt.
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Murray wasn’t making decisions at this point. He was owner of Rangers in name and nothing else.

he was told to sell by LBG, who probably sourced Whyte and helped set the deal up just to get rid of an £18m in debt football club with a potential tax bill of £134m.
LBG has the ability to put him under, part of them not doing so was getting rid of Rangers as quick as possible.

not making excuses for Murray, a charlatan in his own right, but he wasn’t in real control at that point.
 
Bobans27 said:
Murray wasn’t making decisions at this point. He was owner of Rangers in name and nothing else.

he was told to sell by LBG, who probably sourced Whyte and helped set the deal up just to get rid of an £18m in debt football club with a potential tax bill of £134m.
LBG has the ability to put him under, part of them not doing so was getting rid of Rangers as quick as possible.

not making excuses for Murray, a charlatan in his own right, but he wasn’t in real control at that point.
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Walter said exactly that. And I'm no Murray apologist. The relevant employee at LBG was a mentally challenged.
 
dh1963 said:
If HMRC no longer have a veto on the CVA offer by oldco, could it be offered again and the company liquidation stopped?

In an ideal world, I would like the 2 companies to merge as long as oldco was debt free. Would also mean any litigation money for loss of revenue could go the the club and not the oldco ex owners?
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In an ideal world I'd like us to merge with the old co and use any litigation cash to pay off the creditors first.

Highly unlikely to happen obviously, as we'd be taking on debt without any guarantee of winning any significant letigation.
 
Watched BBC lunchtime news and Pacific Quay CSC segment too

Phuck all mentioned on it

Will be complaining

That cuunt Mark Daly should be getting stripped of his BAFTA after all his work was based on false figures used by HMRC
 
Bobans27 said:
Murray wasn’t making decisions at this point. He was owner of Rangers in name and nothing else.

he was told to sell by LBG, who probably sourced Whyte and helped set the deal up just to get rid of an £18m in debt football club with a potential tax bill of £134m.
LBG has the ability to put him under, part of them not doing so was getting rid of Rangers as quick as possible.

not making excuses for Murray, a charlatan in his own right, but he wasn’t in real control at that point.
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You’re correct.

It’s unpalatable to admit, but Murray was powerless by that point.

As if he ever would but, any attempt to defy Lloyd’s would likely have resulted in other more important facets of the MIH prism being sold off.

Rangers was the expendable concession he was willing to sacrifice, and therein ends our sympathy.
 
As I've said before, its all about money - follow the money

One club has been in effective control of Scottish football for 10 years. One club have made an absolute fortune as a result of what happened to us. Those behind that club do not care one iota for Scottish football- it is mere collateral damage to them

If people seriously believe that this all happened by accident then their heads truly button up the back
 
Craigie said:
Tax Expert Tom english throws his tuppenceworth in - unsurprisingly he may be incorrect!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1194967725707280384
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Close but no cigar Tom. Yes, the BDO report - from June - says that HMRC have accepted a £26m ‘error’ that reduces the HMRC debt from circa £94m to circa £68m. However, as you well know Tom, if you’ve taken the time to read the article in The Times, the suggestion is that this may now drop further to nearer £20m. From £94m to nearer £20m is quite a ‘blunder’ I’d say.
 
Craigie said:
Tax Expert Tom english throws his tuppenceworth in - unsurprisingly he may be incorrect!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1194967725707280384
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He's not really interested in what the true figure only in following the narrative that it was all Rangers fault. I'm not sure if journalists like Tom English act deliberately stupid as a get out if they get it wrong but if you are reading this start doing your job, get facts and write a proper story you clown.

"Accountancy sources now believe the outstanding bill for using an offshore trust to pay Rangers players and staff is likely to stand at the far more affordable figure of £20 million. That is equivalent to £2 million annually for the 2001 to 2010 period the tax avoidance scheme was in place".
 
TN8 said:
Yeah but it's all been a big laugh at the daft huns and they're now back filling every ground in the top flight again so who cares?
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Sadly, that seems to be the attitude of the Scottish media this morning. This monumental scandal involving HMRC , which would attract outrage and banner headlines if involving a top English club, has barely caused a ripple of interest outside our fans forums. I knew Scotland was now corrupt to the hilt, today just confirms it.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Close but no cigar Tom. Yes, the BDO report - from June - says that HMRC have accepted a £26m ‘error’ that reduces the HMRC debt from circa £94m to circa £68m. However, as you well know Tom, if you’ve taken the time to read the article in The Times, the suggestion is that this may now drop further to nearer £20m. From £94m to nearer £20m is quite a ‘blunder’ I’d say.
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The man is a fucking idiot. I blocked him and every other loud mouthed half wit on Twitter ages ago. Makes the Twitter world much easier to enjoy.
 
millar2318 said:
Well as soon as you find any other examples of where HMRC have made a similar mistake which has led to the liquidation of a business and commensurate job losses etc, be sure to let us all know.
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And let us know of "the stranger things that have happened "........?
 
deedle said:
The first time I heard this was many years ago and It involved a private conversation a FF poster related about Lawwell.

As it stands I believe the quote is worthless in terms of proving anything.

If we had these transcripts where are they now?
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Minutes from the meetings were on here (well not here but on one of the old boards), I remember reading them.

This is where the fabled ‘bombshell dossier’ originated from, apparently Reid was going to rock Scottish football with evidence of something or other, the Celtic support convinced themselves it was about refs/sfa conspiring against them at the time.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Close but no cigar Tom. Yes, the BDO report - from June - says that HMRC have accepted a £26m ‘error’ that reduces the HMRC debt from circa £94m to circa £68m. However, as you well know Tom, if you’ve taken the time to read the article in The Times, the suggestion is that this may now drop further to nearer £20m. From £94m to nearer £20m is quite a ‘blunder’ I’d say.
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See if any of these BBC bluenoses had any backbone (excusing Neil McCann) - I'm talking about Derek Ferguson, Kris Boyd, Kenny Miller etc, etc, - the next time they are on a show with this cnut, why not pull him up on air for publicly and deliberately misrepresenting the facts as portrayed in the Times article.

These pricks (English et al) think that they are untouchable. Their day will come.
 
There are a few posters on the forum who seem to be accountants in their day job. Would any of them be able to give us their thoughts re the Times report?
 
monkey magic said:
Sadly, that seems to be the attitude of the Scottish media this morning. This monumental scandal involving HMRC , which would attract outrage and banner headlines if involving a top English club, has barely caused a ripple of interest outside our fans forums. I knew Scotland was now corrupt to the hilt, today just confirms it.
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exactly the silence from all is really telling
 
dh1963 said:
If HMRC no longer have a veto on the CVA offer by oldco, could it be offered again and the company liquidation stopped?

In an ideal world, I would like the 2 companies to merge as long as oldco was debt free. Would also mean any litigation money for loss of revenue could go the the club and not the oldco ex owners?
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We’d need to see what final figures are but, if this pans out as reported, the total debt owed to HMRC will have reduced substantially - but so will the overall total debt of the company.

Can’t remember actual figures but let’s say HMRC had £95m of a £120m debt. They easily reach the 25% threshold.

If the overall debt drops by £70m, for example, after the adjustment then HMRC would have, for example, £25m of a £50m debt. It still easily achieves the 25% threshold.
 
The £20m includes the tax bill that Whyte ran up does it not?

That additional bill would never have occurred had the the much larger phantom debt from the EBTs not existed.

It looks like it might have been quite a bit less than £20m.
 
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