Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

GodStruth said:
As I've said before, its all about money - follow the money

One club has been in effective control of Scottish football for 10 years. One club have made an absolute fortune as a result of what happened to us. Those behind that club do not care one iota for Scottish football- it is mere collateral damage to them

If people seriously believe that this all happened by accident then their heads truly button up the back
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Correct.
 
GodStruth said:
As I've said before, its all about money - follow the money

One club has been in effective control of Scottish football for 10 years. One club have made an absolute fortune as a result of what happened to us. Those behind that club do not care one iota for Scottish football- it is mere collateral damage to them

If people seriously believe that this all happened by accident then their heads truly button up the back
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I agree with all that, but add in their pathological hatred of our very existence.
 
Ianferguson said:
When the dust settles on this clusterfuc* I'll have too many villains to count on both hands but for me five of them stand out.
1. HMRC.
who definitely had an agenda and were not impartial. They lost the first two court cases against us but could carry on their relentless pursuit of us due to a bottomless pit of government funds. The flow of sensitive information from HMRC to the tabloids and internet was definitely criminal.
2 . Craig Whyte.
He 100% bought Rangers illegally by using the business's assets to purchase the club and subsequently threw us to the wolves.
3. Donald Findlay.
Who defended Whyte in court when he should have stayed miles away. He had a personal agenda to demonize the people at Rangers who he felt should have stood by him after his sash bash exploits. Unforgivable imo that he should help Whyte avoid the justice and accountability he truly deserved and in doing so let down our massive following.
4. Celtic support.
Who's overall behaviour in this saga has been SHAMEFUL. How many times have they ignored facts to suit agenda, how many times have they spent cash to persue embarrassing falsehoods against our club. They became fanboys of Whyte and were happy to see him sail into the sunset with taxpayers money despite them taking the moral high ground on our deprivation of tax commitments. But for me their BIGGEST crime was to spend seven years in front of their keyboards opining and judging all things Rangers and Ebt's as if they were the paragons of virtue yet never touch ONE key to comment on their clubs PANDEMIC abuse of the children in their care , SHAMEFUL, DISGUSTING and DISTURBING in equal measures.
5. Scottish football fans.
Who's parochial hate of our club has sacrificed our country's national sport. Sorry did I say "sport" , the irony of Scottish clubs seeking "sporting integrity" is laughable. I'll give you some more irony, the clubs who set out to destroy us have an ever increasing amount of EMPTY seats every week while we are looking to INCREASE our capacity. Celtic Europa league tickets £72 for three , Rangers £111 ALL sold. We lost the battle but by fu*k we'll win the war.
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Outstanding post Ian.
 
Careca said:
From memory kilmarnock had 18 million ‘written off’ by the bank.
Think Aberdeen had similar.
Motherwell have been CVAd twice.
Hearts were an absolute financial basket case under Romanov the criminal.
Celtic had an EBT.

These were our jurors.
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Hearts were tunnelling their money out to Lithuania and Alex Salmond stopped it being investigated FACT
 
Norskger said:
I used to work for a public sector organisation. We would receive FOI requests, and we had to get all information, emails etc, gathered and sent to the person who requested it. Anyone can ask for a FOI request, especially from a public sector organisation.
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Won't they redact certain details, like names?
 
Hollywood_RM said:
Got a response from Tom English on Twitter trying to get our point across...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1194979080980090880
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This is where the debate will get muddied (deliberately on social media platforms in particular) and all kinds of wide-ranging numbers will become "fact" to suit whichever side of the fence one sits on.

Until we know an accurate figure for what was actually owed (before penalties) it is very difficult to surmise how things would have panned out.

However, it is pretty reasonable to assume that had a bill of circa £20 million had landed at the club's door for unpaid monies, the option to agree an affordable payment plan would have been a realistic one and (again) that other potential suitors for the club ownership would have been far more willing and greater in number stepping forward to take us forward.

I look forward to the day when we find out that real number to be honest, because meantime, this is all going to be very noisy and ultimately change nothing.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
I thought I was a company law and tax expert after those years but this is not in my head. Skill fade through not needing to use the expertise we all shared back then.

I would have a few doubts about it being strictly true; they have a requirement to get as much public cash in as possible and cutting off their nose over procedural issues at the expense of the public purse would go against that. However with government agencies you can never tell!
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As a mere punter I am simply relying on my memory and the pain of poring over similar cases around that time. HMRC never agreed a CVA that they had the power to block via 25%+ of the vote. Where they lost out because they didn’t have 25%+ of the vote then they always challenged the granting of the CVA because it gave football creditors preference. The generally lost those challenges but their stance was clear. Apparently there have now been changes that strengthen HMRCs hand.

Of course the official reason HMRC gave was the owners history of tax misdemeanours.

www.morton-fraser.com

HMRC FC 1 v 0 Football Creditors FC | Morton Fraser Lawyers

Although they thought it was all over, and despite being repeatedly outplayed in the Courts, HMRC's midfield maestro, H.M. Government, has moved the goalposts late in the day to secure a famous injury time win.
www.morton-fraser.com www.morton-fraser.com
 
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monkey magic said:
Have I got that correct ? The mayhem of jobs lost, other SPL squads reduced, crowd attendances dissipitating, etc, and the League itself losing sponsors by the handful due to the one horse race that was the predictable outcome of their annihilation and bigoted war against our club ?
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The final figure will be much less than £20 million
 
If David Murray hadn't built our foundations on the shifting sands that were EBTs then we'd never have been in the position.

Operating in the manner we were, there should always have been a contingency plan if HMRC came calling.

Not hightailing it and punting us to the crook that was Whyte when the faintest whiff of trouble came our way.

I'll never forgive Murray
 
DamBuster72 said:
If David Murray hadn't built our foundations on the shifting sands that were EBTs then we'd never have been in the position.

Operating in the manner we were, there should always have been a contingency plan if HMRC came calling.

Not hightailing it and punting us to the crook that was Whyte when the faintest whiff of trouble came our way.

I'll never forgive Murray
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Lloyds Bank forced Murray to sell to Whyte, FACT!

More to do with MIM not doing so well, with governments choosing to import cheaper Steel from China.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Wee Tax Case didn’t appear ‘because’ of Whyte - it simply became apparent during the due diligence. You may be getting confused with the unpaid PAYE and VAT that was solely the responsibility of Whyte. The Wee Tax Case was in relation to an early version of the EBTs, a disguised remuneration scheme, I think it was called.
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Yes, that's the one. Whyte suddenly acting the good guy saying there was more tax he's like to pay.
 
Stewart Robertson--- no bridge building over this. Make a name for yourself and represent what we are all saying and feeling.
 
We should sue them all into oblivion

The damage caused by these rats are still effecting out club 7 years on. No amount of money would help repair but it'd be a start and they deserve to be punished

They've tried to destroy our club and we're still standing strong and ready to win 55.

Between damage to our club, harming our reputation and the financial loss we have suffered over the years we deserve to take them all to the cleaners
 
Empire said:
Personally, the only way a shitstorm happens is if our support create it and sadly I don’t see many having the appetite for it.
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Dunno I am mostly apathetic for all the financial stuff and boardroom stuff going on at the club.
But I would gladly be part of an angry mob for this.
 
BlueSeaOfIbrox said:
We should sue them all into oblivion

The damage caused by these rats are still effecting out club 7 years on. No amount of money would help repair but it'd be a start and they deserve to be punished

They've tried to destroy our club and we're still standing strong and ready to win 55.

Between damage to our club, harming our reputation and the financial loss we have suffered over the years we deserve to take them all to the cleaners
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This all day long. I sincerely hope that someone somewhere can unearth the paper trail that leads directly to the door of Dr Sexpest himself who we all know deep down had his wandering hands all over this.
 
The emphasis at all times needs to be on on job losses of ordinary people like you and I.

The people angle is the only way we get this out to the wider public and for them to share our disgust at HMRC. People don’t care about rangers or rich footballers but they do care about wee Mavis on a low salary being shafted due to HMRC gross negligence.
 
Coza said:
The emphasis at all times needs to be on on job losses of ordinary people like you and I.

The people angle is the only way we get this out to the wider public and for them to share our disgust at HMRC. People don’t care about rangers or rich footballers but they do care about wee Mavis on a low salary being shafted due to HMRC gross negligence.
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For those who remember, my wife worked for the club at the time of admin and all that unravelled afterwards. It was brutal for her and her colleagues.
She’s moved on now but I’ll never forget how much of an impact it had on her and her pals/colleagues.
 
two2tango said:
WhoEver gave this needs sacked

the losses to rangers and the economy are hundreds of millions

head on a spike please
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To be fair its pretty obvious what has happened here and happens every day of the week.

HMRC claim there has been unpaid tax. They raise an assessment with a huge amount of interest and penalties to frighten the life from the tax payer. By doing this they hope the taxpayer will enter into negotiations in order to strike a deal. If they don't they expect even if they win the unpaid tax case the excess penalties will be struck off by the judge.

Rangers didn't enter negotiations as they thought they would win the case based on the legal advice.

HMRC then didn't know what to do when the judge gave them everything they wanted including the excess penalties so they've rowed back from their earlier position.
 
Can a class action suit be taken against HMRC?

I know there was chat before that they couldn't be sued at all which was incorrect.

If all bond members and share holders got together and raised the matter collectively, it'd be some powerful force asking questions of whoever it was instigated it all.
 
Ianferguson said:
When the dust settles on this clusterfuc* I'll have too many villains to count on both hands but for me five of them stand out.
1. HMRC.
who definitely had an agenda and were not impartial. They lost the first two court cases against us but could carry on their relentless pursuit of us due to a bottomless pit of government funds. The flow of sensitive information from HMRC to the tabloids and internet was definitely criminal.
2 . Craig Whyte.
He 100% bought Rangers illegally by using the business's assets to purchase the club and subsequently threw us to the wolves.
3. Donald Findlay.
Who defended Whyte in court when he should have stayed miles away. He had a personal agenda to demonize the people at Rangers who he felt should have stood by him after his sash bash exploits. Unforgivable imo that he should help Whyte avoid the justice and accountability he truly deserved and in doing so let down our massive following.
4. Celtic support.
Who's overall behaviour in this saga has been SHAMEFUL. How many times have they ignored facts to suit agenda, how many times have they spent cash to persue embarrassing falsehoods against our club. They became fanboys of Whyte and were happy to see him sail into the sunset with taxpayers money despite them taking the moral high ground on our deprivation of tax commitments. But for me their BIGGEST crime was to spend seven years in front of their keyboards opining and judging all things Rangers and Ebt's as if they were the paragons of virtue yet never touch ONE key to comment on their clubs PANDEMIC abuse of the children in their care , SHAMEFUL, DISGUSTING and DISTURBING in equal measures.
5. Scottish football fans.
Who's parochial hate of our club has sacrificed our country's national sport. Sorry did I say "sport" , the irony of Scottish clubs seeking "sporting integrity" is laughable. I'll give you some more irony, the clubs who set out to destroy us have an ever increasing amount of EMPTY seats every week while we are looking to INCREASE our capacity. Celtic Europa league tickets £72 for three , Rangers £111 ALL sold. We lost the battle but by fu*k we'll win the war.
Click to expand...
Ouch!well said bear!
 
BlueSeaOfIbrox said:
We should sue them all into oblivion

The damage caused by these rats are still effecting out club 7 years on. No amount of money would help repair but it'd be a start and they deserve to be punished

They've tried to destroy our club and we're still standing strong and ready to win 55.

Between damage to our club, harming our reputation and the financial loss we have suffered over the years we deserve to take them all to the cleaners
Click to expand...

Should sue Hmrc and the individuals privately!
 
5*RFC said:
So proud of our club being in this position and in Europe after all that's been done to destroy us. We will come out the other side better than ever!
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55 Is massive mate, and winning it is even more important now.

That's just for starters. Hopefully the truth will come out and all that tried to finish us get what's coming. As a fanbase we're stronger than ever and when this all ends we will be Champions just like we should be.

WATP!!!
 
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