The Advocaat Years - Heart & Hand's Latest Podcast Venture

Discussion in 'The Bear Pit' started by SDF, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Earl of Leven

    Earl of Leven Well-Known Member

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    It's starting to become a genuine alternative to mainstream media...it has news, features, history, comedy etc. I wish/hope RFC improves further its social media and we'd be self sufficient as a support.
     
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  2. Flash81

    Flash81 Well-Known Member

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    Loving the new set up,great podcast
     
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  3. rogue

    rogue New Member

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    Really enjoyed it and happy to be a patreon supporter. Keep up the great work.
     
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  4. Boba Fleck

    Boba Fleck Member

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    I'm in! I'm in! Looking forward to the commute tomorrow. Joe Rogan can take a back seat for now...
     
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  5. vanderhogg

    vanderhogg Active Member

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    Great feedback folks - many thanks. Sunday night.....we genuinely did not know how it wuld go & whether it would be a car crash as it's new.

    The "Christ, aye!" moments made us laugh and it was enjoyable to do.

    Hoping you love what's coming up.
     
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  6. mr_snrub

    mr_snrub Active Member

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    Really enjoyed the first episode. I thought it was a great idea to lead with a look at the season after 9 in a row and what went wrong.
    Brought back memories of how exciting it was to be a Rangers fan in those, signing up one of the top coaches in Europe and being linked with hunners of quality players.
     
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  7. OnlyOneAmoruso

    OnlyOneAmoruso Member

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    Try Google Maps buddy, never had an issue with it.
     
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  8. David Edgar

    David Edgar Administrator Staff Member

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    This is why you’re not allowed on.
     
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  9. Bobans27

    Bobans27 Active Member

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    Can I ask a silly question, what’s the difference between the 1.99 & 3.99 subscription?

    Also glad to see there is going to an H&H live in Edinburgh next year.
     
  10. Bobans27

    Bobans27 Active Member

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    Figured it from the app, for anyone else wondering:

    Back in July 2010, I gathered together a few of my friends to record a pilot episode of a show about Rangers. I'd hoped we'd maybe get enough listeners to warrant doing a year or so. Little did I know, as we sat in my kitchen fiddling with our lengths - of mic cable, you filthy brute! - that seven years, almost 300 pods and the most tumultuous period in our great club's history later that we'd not only still be going but actually expanding. Pretty mind-blowing stuff.

    The subscription service will bring you daily updates, breaking news, exclusive shows, interviews, videos, Q&As, phone-ins and pretty much anything else you ask for. At $1.99 per month - yes, dollars so it's actually EVEN LESS than two quid a month! - we're confident you'll be getting value for money.

    If you're rich, we're quite happy to take more off you with our $3.99 tier. I kid! We'll take that even if you're not rich. For that, you'll receive the content but also a call once a month from myself to discuss the shows, ideas you have for the platform, general shit-shooting about the Bears and anything else that pops into your head. You will receive exclusive pre-sale links for H&H live shows and we'll also send you regular bulletins about the performance of the platform. You'll also be able to request things like personalised greetings for your voicemail, birthday videos for friends...anything legal. We're your bitch, basically.

    All joking aside, we hope that you all enjoy the content we've got lined up. Like the original pod itself, this platform will go off in a host of unexpected directions and we'll go on the journey together. I can't promise where we'll end up, but I guarantee we'll have fun getting there.

    See you back here for the official launch on December 6th 2017!
     
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  11. themightyi

    themightyi Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been a listener of the pod for around about 6 years, I think, and can’t recommend it highly enough to other bears.

    Signed up for the paid service earlier this evening and made ‘The Advocaat Years’ my first listen.

    I wasn’t even 2 years old when he arrived but the 90’s have influenced me a great deal throughout my life and so hearing about the club and the goings on during that period are always fascinating for me.

    Loving the stuff on Pateron so far, David, keep up the good work!
     
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  12. crownedpilgrim

    crownedpilgrim New Member

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    Load up on the alpha brain and caveman coffee and listen to both after your hot yoga class.
     
  13. degenerate069

    degenerate069 New Member

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    The first episode was great. Dispelling some of the rumour and innuendo and stating the facts.

    Younger bears will never know what it was like to have to rely on papers and scot sport extra time for your news and transfers stories.
     
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  14. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    Heart & Hand - The EBT years.
     
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  15. SuperGers07

    SuperGers07 Well-Known Member

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    In Peter Griffin voice:

    heh, he said rumour and innuendo.
     
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  16. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    It's been a great listen even though the chat of the failed 10IAR makes my guts ache. We utterly utterly blew it against a very very average Celtic side.

    Does anyone remember a game at Killie where Advocaat was in the stand?

    (I've not heard the last 10 minutes of the pod so apologies if it comes up but I think they're just at the point of listing the players we signed now so doubt it will)

    I'm certain he was there and between them Goram and Bjorklund made a complete arse of a clearance (think Maxwell and McPherson in the 1994 cup final) and Killie scored from it.

    We drew 1-1 and Thern scored

    I always wondered if it was at that point that Wee Dick stuck the two of them on his "they can go" list?

    Was he in the stand that night or have I remembered it wrong and it was just that he'd been announced around that time and would have been watching the game with interest
     
  17. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    It was the Hearts 2-2 game where Advocaat was in the stand. Was meant to be all hush hush so they stuck him in a box in the Govan Stand IIRC

    And yep, that was one of the three Goram/Bjorklund calamaties that season
     
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  18. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    That was the week after Killie eh? Must be that I remember thinking he'd clearly have watched the Killie game before being at Ibrox for the Hearts draw.

    Well rememebered.
     
  19. Göteborg-Rangers

    Göteborg-Rangers Member

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    Was also the same game that Advocaat identified McCann as a player he wanted IIRC.
     
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  20. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Killie was the previous midweek where they ran into each other. Hearts one Bjorklund passed it back to Goram who booted it straight to McCann and he first timed it into the net. Bjorklund arsed up for the second when he tried to run it out for a goal kick and was dispossessed

    McCann had a smashing game that day. Although he also had a decent one in the opening game of the Advocaat season too. Set up Adam's goal
     
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  21. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    With hindsight, I've long though that we should have held onto Gascoigne until the summer. There was always the chance, even if the evidence didn't support it, that that moment of genius could have appeared in the likes of the Killie game at home.

    That said, the only other game apart from that where we dropped points after he left was Aberdeen away and with Amo being sent off, maybe he wouldn't have made the difference.

    If he was so off the rails, perhaps it was worth taking the cash.
     
  22. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure Advocaat said he was in amongst the Hearts fans in the Broomloan, Dunc.
     
  23. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    Gazza was never same after the Amsterdam tournament where he did his ankle.

    It was obvious by that point he wasn't the same Gazza. His agents had spent the entire season whoring him to the EPL and the First Division - Crystal Palace and Sunderland being the main two. I think he had three goals all season and they were all scored in October. There was nothing that season that suggested he could make the difference.
     
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  24. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    You might be right mate. I just remember that it was meant to be hush hush
     
  25. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    Thought David's point about the "comedy Celtic years" and the Jansen / Venglos point was an interesting parallel too to where we're at.

    Ties into something I've been thinking and a few have said it regarding McInnes. He might be "our Tommy Burns" in that we have to have someone to settle things for a spell as any other appointments are just to risky if it's someone without knowledge of the game here.

    It might be there are better coaches but given where we're at at exactly things moment in time, this is probably the right appointment. Imagine we tried a Preud'Homme and the wheels came off after six months - folk would be going apoplectic.

    Annnnnnnnnnyway, the point I was going to make was that hopefully we got our Jansen / Venglos moment out of the way with Warburton / Caixinha. No sooner had we got past the comedy years of the lower division with a success (promotion) under Warburton then he was gone and we had a "funny" foreigner in the role that no one had known previously just like they did with Venglos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  26. Keyser_Soze

    Keyser_Soze Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant listen.

    I didn't realise Colin Hendry was quite so old when we signed him. I knew he was no spring chicken but thought maybe 30.

    Its great to remember that celtic had 9 years of woes trying to stop us winning the league. We lorded it over them for 9 years and when they eventually stopped us their joy lasted about 40 hours before they went into meltdown again.Jock Brown, Dr Jo, Risrth, Mahe... beautiful! Remember they lost at Aberden very early in the season and Jock Brown was shown on Sky pissing himself laughing.
     
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  27. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    Also, and I'm biased, but I thought the chat on Laudrup was slightly skewed.

    He may not have hit the heights of previous years by his standards but there were around 10 players in the squad who were in such bad shape physically and mentally that holding the failing against him to such an extent is extreme.

    I can't find his stats for the season (and I know he only scored about 5 goals) but it's not just the occasional think like the chip on the goal line against The Sheep that he provided.

    I think, due to their being no end of season DVD, a lot of what he did that year is forgotten.

    This sort of thing was still happening...starts at 1.50



    ...it's never part of the highlight reels as it was from 97-98.

    How long was he out injured for? Though that'll go into "he gave up ahead of signing for Chelsea and managed to play in the World Cup very well" territory, I'd guess.

    I think his ankle was causing issues from January 98 onwards and was never right at Chelsea either.
     
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  28. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

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    Laudrup had carried the team in 2 out of the previous 3 seasons. He did an interview in May 1997 where he had a go at Gascoigne and just the general culture of the place. He was then supposed to leave that summer. Mentally, he was gone.

    He was substituted in the Strasbourg game at Ibrox and I remember him just sitting on the track next to the dugout looking completely pissed off.

    In any workplace, the demotivated end up bringing the motivated down to their level.
     
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  29. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    I think it was more to do with the shambles of them trying to appoint a manager rather than the manager themselves. Jansen won them a double so it's hard to call him comedy but it was as clear as day he was ditching them after the season and was using all manner of excuses to justify it. If you read Jock Brown's book you it's obvious that Jansen wasn't hanging about hence the break clause after 12 months.

    The comedy aspect came from the likes of Keevins being told Artur Jorge would be appointed within 24 hours, putting it in the newspaper and then being mocked by Brown for getting it wrong and Keevins never forgiving Brown for feeding him duff information. They were also chasing Bobby Robson at one point. Then when Jansen quit they were linked with Nils Arne Eggen and Gerard Houllier but ended up with a OAP appointed on the eve of the season with a good reputation but who was never a long term solution.

    You could also add in the civil war which had ra good Sellik men like Hay, McLeod, Jim Kerr, Dalglish and well as their support at loggerheads with McCann and Brown over anything and everything. Every week seemed to bring about a new feud
     
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  30. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    Laudrup was promised that we would make a right go of Europe if he stayed one more year. He agreed and we didn't. Gothenburg away(where he was injured) is where we capitulated second half and Albertz and Gazza simply chucked it.

    The Strasbourg away game is where Laudrup ran to the touchline and screamed at Walter to change it as we were being overrun in the middle of the park. The first time I had ever saw him do that sort of thing. The second leg he was injured berforehand thanks to a brutal bodycheck by Kevin Christie and flew in his own physio at his own expense to get him fit for it. It's not the sort of thing a guy who doesn't give a shit does.

    I'll defend Laudrup to the death over that season. He was the least of our problems
     
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  31. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Reading on Wiki that he only played 60 games after he left Rangers before retiring. He was developing physical complaints too. The strange Chelsea move.

    You had to be there to see how good Laudrup was compared to the rest of the team. Laudrup would draw a couple of defenders to himself, lay it back to Cleland in space, he would shuffle about a bit and then wait until the defenders came to him before giving it back to Laudrup. There's only so many times that can happen before you give up.

    We've all seen the 1997 topless team photo. Imagine Laudrup in that environment. Sure, it's a laugh and a joke at times but there's a time to play and a time to work. Safe to say the balance wasn't right by that time.
     
  32. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm probably willing to give Laudrup a pass on (certain) things the way Davie did with McCoist, I reckon, but I don't think there's anyone solely responsible for it. The wheels just came off everything. Laudrup's mind might have been drifting to an extent but it makes sense given everything that was going on.

    There was chat on the pod of Gazza's waist expanding week by week. Look at Ally when he came back into the team and the size of him. He did very well banging in a few goals and like Laudrup contributed where others didn't.

    There's so many things you could point back at and have issue with. Place just seemed to be gone from a sporting and professional level.

    It was a fairly cathartic listen actually. I was just about over it and went and looked up the Killie game on youtube which I've not seen since I was at the match. *boak*

    Durie's first "touch" that should have played Laudrup in for a tap in. Laudrup's cut back just behind Ally which ended up blocked.

    I'd forgotten Gordon Marshall was in goals for Killie that day too. Just how many league deciders has he influenced? 4? That one, 2003, 2005 and someone mentioned another one he'd been in goal in another game against Celtic where they dropped points and we went on to win the league in our next game.

    Dunc, you'll be able to clear that up, I'm sure.
     
  33. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

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    I'll steal Dunc's thunder and say that Marshall was also in goal for Falkirk when they won 2-1 at the Piggery in 1987 allowing us to win the league at Pittodrie. Maybe he'll be a lucky mascot for us after all.

    Can we mention Goram in 1997-98 too? If Walter wasn't leaving there's no question Goram would have been transfer listed, as he had been in 1994.

    The environment wasn't as professional as it could have been and Walter leaving just exacerbated that. All sorts of stuff was going on - it was like the Beatles tours.
     
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  34. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    Goram was an embarrassment that season. You just need to look at pictures of them. At least a stone overweight, missed a third of the season with muscle strains and only 6 clean sheets all season.

    There's a reason no club touched him with a bargepole for months after he left us. He was a bloated mess.

    The whole setup that season was a joke. There was a story Walter had a testimonial party in Viccy's where our lot demanded a lock in for more bevvying and took the huff when they were told no. I mean, sod the game coming up in five days time...
     
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  35. IrvineLoyal

    IrvineLoyal Well-Known Member

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    Did Laudrup not have problems with his back that season?



    Am sure he had a chronic back problem that plagued his last season with us and his time at Chelsea
     
  36. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Probably stemmed from carrying our squad for a good two years.

    He also had an achilles problem which finished his career within 2 years of leaving us.
     
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  37. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    That's the one. I heard it mentioned the other day. Might well have been on another H&H pod actually.
     
  38. IrvineLoyal

    IrvineLoyal Well-Known Member

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    I remember watching him with Chelsea and he looked to have lost a little bit of pace and didn’t seem to drop shoulder when going past players like he used to.



    For all his ability people forget what a tremendous athlete he was - it was embarrassing how much fitter he was than the rest of our players at the time, only probably Gough and Robertson were as proffesional as him when it came to taking care of themselves
     
  39. ca100

    ca100 Active Member

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    I find the discussion on this era really quite interesting.

    I haven't had a chance to listen to the pod yet, so apologies if this was covered already, but there's a few things below i've wondered about the 97-98 season. I was 9-10 at the time so don't fully remember the year in much detail!

    - Gough left at the end of 9iar, why? He came back in, what, October/November time? What was his form like that season? Were his legs still there? He went on to play in England for a couple of seasons after that.
    - Negri got injured in early January? Did he play again that season, or was that him?
    - Was our recruitment in summer 97 poor? Stensaas was obviously a flop, and Thern was past his best, but was the concensus at the time that we had recruited well and would romp it to 10? When did Amoruso get injured?
    - Was there any talk at the time of Smith leaving after the 9iar season?
     
  40. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

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    I assumed 'muscle strain' was a euphemism like Jeffrey Bernard's 'unwell' (i.e. drunk) excuse. Andy Goram Has A Muscle Strain could also become a West End play.

    Walter had always had a policy of allowing the players some leeway, treating them like adults. I think a lot of things caught up with that squad that season.

    The fans could see what was happening. We'd punted Davie Dodds in the summer and hired Tommy Moeller-Nielsen in a bid to become more 'modern'. I don't think Dodds ever worked in the game again which is an indictment in itself. My recollection of the time was that fans simply wanted a more professional approach and I don't recall much blame being directed towards Laudrup.
     
  41. SDF

    SDF Well-Known Member

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    Gough left on a free because he didn't want to hang around as he got older and less reliable. So he went to America. And then when Amo went out for months and McLaren was never coming back we brought him back at a cost of £300,000 and gave him a 2 year deal. He left on another free within 7 months.

    Thern was going to retire because of knee problems until we chucked money his way. That knee problem put him out of action by the end of August and then after a decent comeback, eventually put him out for a year. He then did retire. After we paid him all the money.

    Amoruso arrived injured with an achilles problem. We thought an injection would fix it. It didn't. So we sent him for an op. And then another op and the surgeon botched both of them so badly that Amo had to go to Belgium to get it sorted. A six week injury turned into 8 months.

    Smith told Murray he wanted out after NIAR and was persuaded to stay with a brand new three year contract and a testimonial. Knox got the same three year deal too IIRC. Walter said after winning the Coca Cola Cup in 1996 that he walked into the press room and saw how glum everyone was and that he no longer had the same enjoyment winning as he did previously.

    It was obvious who sacked Walter in the end. ENIC were calling the shots and Daniel Levy appeared on Scotsport the Sunday after Strasbourg to tell everyone that ENIC hadn't invested £40m to get put out of Europe twice in four weeks. Within three weeks Walter announced he was leaving at the end of the season.
     
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  42. HereLiesDavidStHubbins

    HereLiesDavidStHubbins Active Member

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    This is the perfect format for fan generated content. I went to the matches sporadically around this time but followed the news as much as anyone else and it's really interesting hearing someone who must be around the same age as me look back over it all in such vivid detail. There are so many things that I'd put to the back of my mind or completely forgotten about. It really was a different era, and you don't realise that until so many differences to today are pointed out.

    If BBC Scotland tried to produce this, it'd be a soulless 'by the number' summary of the things that went on, which would ultimately end up telling us nothing we didn't already know. This, by contrast, is the complete opposite. Can't wait for the next episode.
     
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  43. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

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    I know you say that about ENIC, Dunc, and it makes sense. However, Murray was cavalier in his attitude towards ENIC. He was supposed to abide by agreed borrowing limits but completely ignored them much to ENIC's fury. There was an exchange reported circa 1999 of Daniel Levy going apeshit at Murray. ENIC had two directors on the board, Levy and Howard Stanton. Stanton resigned in 1999 in protest at how Murray was running the club.

    It makes sense to think ENIC forced Smith out because it doesn't seem like Murray would as Smith was, and is, his friend. But Murray subsequently marginalised them anyway until they eventually sold out at a huge loss.

    From 1997 to 2001, Murray went completely nuts and shafted a lot of people from ENIC to Dave King. He genuinely was a maniac.
     
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  44. Laudrup1

    Laudrup1 Well-Known Member

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    Negri played after January. Scored against Hibs 2-1 and St Johnstone 2-1 where he got both. That all muddy's the water in terms of the injury / his mental heath / exactly what the %^*& was going on.

    The signings in the summer were poor overall. Thern was done. The story goes he was boarding a flight back home from Rome to retire as his body was knackered and we offered him 40k a week to sign and he did.

    Stensaas was a real waste of money. Amo was crocked and Gattuso was too young to be considered straight into the first team. Porrini was a good signing to deal with the issue of right back we'd had for years since Gary Stevens was in his pomp until about 93.

    Overall, we didn't have enough from the new players to deal with the issues the current lot had in terms of fitness and attitude.

    The Gough thing always puzzled me. It was right that he left when he did. He was starting to struggle and was done at the highest level. I don't know if things just didn't work out in the USA for him and we offered him an easy return.
     
  45. dublinbluenose

    dublinbluenose Well-Known Member

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    A cracking pod up today about the tour of Russia in 1962,two shows in the output has been brilliant they have been worth the 1.99 alone nevermind what’s to follow
     
    David Edgar likes this.
  46. The Diplomat

    The Diplomat Member

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    Right, that's me subscribed!
    I've been listening to David's weekly ramblings for years now so may as well see what else he has to say..

    Rangers lotto and now this so far this week.
     
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  47. zorro

    zorro Active Member

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    This will be a good series. I was 26 that year and thought I could remember most of it, but I am sure that things will come back that I had forgotten.

    I am just glad Ian was also a bit concerned with the Kanchelskis signing. I really had my doubts about that one but he did ok.

    At the time I think most of knew that Hendry was a Murray buy and not too popular with Advocatt. This will be a great series and I am looking forward to it
     
  48. we-welcome-the-chase

    we-welcome-the-chase New Member

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    The subscription service seems like value for money with the amount of content available but I don't think I would have time to listen to it all with the other podcasts I subscribe to.

    Possibly not staunch enough....though I've been a listener since day 1
     
  49. The Diplomat

    The Diplomat Member

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    Can I ask a stupid question...
    Once you link your account with Paypal, do you then have to pledge to the Heart and Hand Podcast?
    Just checking I'm not doing the same thing twice, as it was the Heart and Hand page I went through in the first place.
     
  50. Earl of Leven

    Earl of Leven Well-Known Member

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    It is very interesting to think on what Taki says above re Murray....97-2001. He really did f*** over all our investors didn't he? He burned all his bridges. Looking back that saw us friendless, second best to MON and with £76m of debt...which was NEVER sorted and has led directly to where we are today.
     
    bluetonic, BWO, Taki and 1 other person like this.

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