The Athletic redefine player roles

BostonBear1983 said:
This is not an American thing, this is an analytics thing. This is happening all over the world as anyone who works in a corporate job can attest to.

For me, this makes sense to apply additional metadata to players. Allow me to explain, if you are looking to compare stats on players you want to purchase, it would make sense that the correct stats were used, if all midfielders were called midfielders, a computer would attempt to compare Kante and De Bruyne the same way, however if you assigned a midfielder “type” to each, it would allow you compare De Bruyne only to similar midfielders to him.

Remember, computers do everything these days, scouts are being replaced by data analysts. The more metadata you apply to players, the better the computer will perform.

Do I think the names they used are wanky, yes, do I see value in what they are doing, also yes.
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Do you answer your own questions? Yes.
 
BostonBear1983 said:
This is not an American thing, this is an analytics thing. This is happening all over the world as anyone who works in a corporate job can attest to.

For me, this makes sense to apply additional metadata to players. Allow me to explain, if you are looking to compare stats on players you want to purchase, it would make sense that the correct stats were used, if all midfielders were called midfielders, a computer would attempt to compare Kante and De Bruyne the same way, however if you assigned a midfielder “type” to each, it would allow you compare De Bruyne only to similar midfielders to him.

Remember, computers do everything these days, scouts are being replaced by data analysts. The more metadata you apply to players, the better the computer will perform.

Do I think the names they used are wanky, yes,do I see value in what they are doing, also yes.
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B-D
 
ChesterBear72 said:
Yawn. I'm an analyst mate so I don't really want to hear your patronising "Allow me to explain" bollocks on a football forum. It's a simple game made into nonsense.

"Science is knowledge we understand so well that we can teach it to a computer".

Everything else is art.

Football is art mate.
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Football is not art, football is a business, and any business should be using every available tool to “win”. Analytics is everywhere in football now, and this kind of data tagging is needed for artificial intelligence, which is the next step in analyzing this data.
 
Hap Hapablap said:
Football has changed plenty of times over the last 170 years or whatever. The Dutch changed it then more recently the Spanish to what we are seeing now.

Who is to say it won't go back to something like this? It would take a brave club and coach to do it but you never know.
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Are we really that different in all but name in the SPFL?
...........McLaughlin.
.....Goldson - Davies....
Tav... Lundstram... Yilmaz
... Lawrence... Tilman...
Matondo.. Morelos... Kent
 
Fergie90 said:
Where is the Alfredo Morelos category ?

Buffalo - Morelos, Morelos and Morelos.

He doesn't fit into anything else so that's him f*cked.
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....................Buffalo..................
Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo
.....Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo.....
.....Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo.....

A one man sentence/the man who can do it all!
 
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BostonBear1983 said:
Football is not art, football is a business, and any business should be using every available tool to “win”. Analytics is everywhere in football now, and this kind of data tagging is needed for artificial intelligence, which is the next step in analyzing this data.
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It does not take an Analyst, or the application of analytics to tell anyone that Lionel Messi is a better player than Steve Bull was. If your analytical eye needs a spreadsheet to tell you that, then I suggest you stick to baseball. Or Dungeons & Dragons.

"Boston Bear - Putting the Anal in Analysis since 1983"

You fücking boring cûnt
 
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This Rangers Da stuff is nearly as boring as FFS T.av ended up.

This old guy still thinks football is a really simple game. It doesn't need all this overcomplication. The managers that have the greatest success get that.

I'm now away to walk my pet Triceratops.
 
They forgot:

Bottler: pays well in run of the mill league games but wets the bed on the big occasion

Egotist: thinks the whole world of football exists so he can get an advertising gig promoting Weetabix.

Shirker: Better at passing the buck than passing the ball. Always takes the easy option.

Flute-player: a Jack-the-lad who likes to please, is loved by everyone, but is his own worst enemy.
 
I know a data analyst who works for a decent side down south, when they look to sign someone they group players based on their abilities, not sure they use the same names as in that article but it makes it easier to refer to a group. For example De Bruyne and Jordan Henderson can both be called midfielders but they've got very different skill sets.

When working with lesser known names it makes it easier to refer to someones abilities right away rather than just saying "these two players are both midfielders"

I don't like how the article in the athletic names them but whether we like it or not this is how football clubs operate now with regards to grouping players into "roles".
 
jscotty1 said:
I know a data analyst who works for a decent side down south, when they look to sign someone they group players based on their abilities, not sure they use the same names as in that article but it makes it easier to refer to a group. For example De Bruyne and Jordan Henderson can both be called midfielders but they've got very different skill sets.

When working with lesser known names it makes it easier to refer to someones abilities right away rather than just saying "these two players are both midfielders"

I don't like how the article in the athletic names them but whether we like it or not this is how football clubs operate now with regards to grouping players into "roles".
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De Bruyne is an attacking midfielder, Henderson is a defensive midfielder.

We don't need new terms to differentiate them.
 
lg1991 said:
I mean, surely makes more sense than just saying "Defender", or "Midfielder".

Despite what the dinosaurs in the stands might say, Football has changed since the 90s.
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I like it, the modern game is unrecognizable to even 15-20 years ago in terms of athleticism, tactics, technique, etc. so why not try and redefine the way we think/talk about it
 
Coda said:
De Bruyne is an attacking midfielder, Henderson is a defensive midfielder.

We don't need new terms to differentiate them.
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I'm not saying that people need to call football players by these 'role' names

I'm merely pointing out that elite level football clubs do this, and since they're doing it I'm inclined to go with it
 
ChesterBear72 said:
It does not take a Analyst, or the application of analytics to tell anyone that Lionel Messi is a better player than Steve Bull was. If your analytical eye needs a spreadsheet to tell you that, then I suggest you stick to baseball. Or Dungeons & Dragons.

"Boston Bear - Putting the Anal in Analysis since 1983"
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Whatever you think, there is another poster on this thread who has first hand knowledge that is 100% aligned with my post, and that this approach is being used by top tier teams.

For the record I hate baseball and have never played Dungeons and Dragons…
 
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BostonBear1983 said:
Whatever you think, there is another poster on this thread who has first hand knowledge that is 100% aligned with my post, and that this approach is being used by top tier teams.

For the record I hate baseball and have never played Dungeons and Dragons…but I am still a really boring cünt
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Fixed it
 
Coda said:
Calling them a box smasher or a plonker puller doesn’t differentiate them any better.
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The names are certainly not what I would use, but do you think all midfielders that play slightly deeper are the same? Of course they aren't. Clubs will have used stuff like this for years to define a player and their role. Klopp has made fantastic signings because they all fit a certain profile that suits their team. There are lots of attacking forwards in the world, but not all of them have the correct skills to fit in. It's necessary to filter players in to small brackets.

As a Rangers example, Colak and Morelos are both strikers, they have totally different styles.
 
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ChesterBear72 said:
It does not take an Analyst, or the application of analytics to tell anyone that Lionel Messi is a better player than Steve Bull was. If your analytical eye needs a spreadsheet to tell you that, then I suggest you stick to baseball. Or Dungeons & Dragons.

"Boston Bear - Putting the Anal in Analysis since 1983"

You fücking boring cûnt
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What a terrible, misinformed dinosaur post haha. Of course you can tell better players with your eyes when it's a difference like that. However there are plenty things it's pretty impossible to record just from your vision of a game. Every club at all levels will be using some form of it. My club uses Wyscout for data and it's not exactly a CL level club.
 
MightyGersLand! said:
What was wrong with this?

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Nothing
 
BostonBear1983 said:
Football is not art, football is a business, and any business should be using every available tool to “win”. Analytics is everywhere in football now, and this kind of data tagging is needed for artificial intelligence, which is the next step in analyzing this data.
Click to expand...

There’s no getting away from the terms being a bit wanky.

If you make your way through the new-football buzzword bullshit though, you do have a point and it is one that clubs of our level can use to its advantage.

We need to be working with intricate data to get an edge.

The lad for PSV midweek was head and shoulders above every player on the park.
They signed him for more or less the same as Kent cost us.
From Toulouse.

If we can use it to get that level of player in the door bring on the wanky hipster terms.
 
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