The best all round striker to play for Rangers?

Chester Loyal said:
I'm not though.

What do you think he was good at? What were his strengths?
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Excellent 1st touch.
Good link up play with a fellow striker (Miller for example)
Great awareness.
As clean a striker of the ball as you'll see.
Excellent composure when finishing, particularly in high pressure games.
An uncanny knack of finding space in the penalty box.

Weaknesses....
Poor work rate.
Lack of pace.
Poor in the air for his size.

Do you think that's accurate?

That assessment doesn't make him a terrible footballer.
 
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MearnsUnionist said:
I've said he lacked pace and didn't work hard enough.
I also don't think he is in the same bracket as our best ever strikers.

However, he could link play, had an incredible knack of finding space in the opposition box and his finishing and ball striking was 2nd to none.


You don't score the number of goals he did if you're a "terrible footballer"

What else do you think he lacked?
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His link up play was average at best. He was dropped for every "big" game because his link up play wasn't good enough.

I agree with your comments about his finishing, finding space and composure in and around the box.

He lacked pace, work rate, link up play and he was terrible in the air for a guy of his size.

It's possible to be a terrible footballer but be so good at certain aspects of the game that your flaws can be overlooked. I'd class Marvin Andrews in the category of terrible football as well, for instance.
 
Chester Loyal said:
His link up play was average at best. He was dropped for every "big" game because his link up play wasn't good enough.

I agree with your comments about his finishing, finding space and composure in and around the box.

He lacked pace, work rate, link up play and he was terrible in the air for a guy of his size.

It's possible to be a terrible footballer but be so good at certain aspects of the game that your flaws can be overlooked. I'd class Marvin Andrews in the category of terrible football as well, for instance.
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I agree with you regarding deficiencies in his game, but it's your description of terrible footballer that's ridiculous.

Marvin Andrews too now???

Yes, he'd limited technical ability, but you don't win a league medal as a Rangers central defender by being a terrible footballer.

Anyway the thread is getting derailed, so we'll agree to disagree.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
I agree with you regarding deficiencies in his game, but it's your description of terrible footballer that's ridiculous.

Marvin Andrews too now???

Yes, he'd limited technical ability, but you don't win a league medal as a Rangers central defender by being a terrible footballer.

Anyway the thread is getting derailed, so we'll agree to disagree.
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But that's exactly what I mean.

I assume you've played football and you know what someone means when they say someone is a great footballer.

Boyd and Andrews were very limited but what they done well, they done very well. There is no shame in that.
 
There have been many over my years but Colin Stein was the one I looked forward to seeing most on a match day.
 
McCoist did it year after year with partner after partner
Jelavic was special
Amato could have done anything given a longer time at Ibrox
Would have loved to see Caniggia in his prime as well
 
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Chester Loyal said:
But that's exactly what I mean.

I assume you've played football and you know what someone means when they say someone is a great footballer.

Boyd and Andrews were very limited but what they done well, they done very well. There is no shame in that.
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A terrible footballer for me, is someone who lacks all the basic technical qualities of the game.

Someone with the touch, control, ball striking ability, finishing and big game composure of Boyd, doesn't fall into that category for me.

Different opinions I guess and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
In my lifetime Derek Johnstone, Hateley, Prso and laterally Alfie.

I'm sure guys like Thornton, Jimmy Miller, McPhail and Jimmy Smith and co may be worth a mention but before my time.

DJ was unplayable in the air, good on the ground and could set up as well as score. Hateley terrified defences and was perfect partner for Ally, Prso could do a bit of everything and his attitude and work rate spot on and Alfie single handedly worries an entire back line allowing others space to influence the game.
 
Laudrup is God said:
For me Mark Hateley was best I’ve ever seen leas the line for us Ally the greatest but big Hateley had the lot power pace finishing link up the lot. My Da says Colin Stein and DJ where better but I’m 80s boy so never seen them who for you is the best striker?
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Buy your dad a bottle of his choice.
Certainly fo his acknowledgment of Johnstone.
Stein, I’m just a touch too young to fully remember and appreciate.
 
Johansen said:
No, DJ was a very early starter in the game and he gave us some great times but by 1980 when he was 26 his best was behind him, not because of ability but because he didn't apply himself as he should have. He had so much more to give but we never really seen his best but what we did see was superb
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No, we did see the best.
It’s just that his best should have lasted for so much longer than it did.
 
Hateley by a country mile. Prso, Jelavic and Morelos fall into this all-round category for me but Hateley was the most important player of the 9IAR. Mols was a genius but I wouldn’t quite consider him in what the OP is asking for.
 
tazzabear said:
Buy your dad a bottle of his choice.
Certainly fo his acknowledgment of Johnstone.
Stein, I’m just a touch too young to fully remember and appreciate.
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My old man always says if DJ had been blessed with Parlane's pace, he would've been unplayable on the deck, as well as in the air Tazza.

I don't think Johnstone was particularly slow, as he was Dundee Schools 100m champion.
It's just that Parlane was exceptionally quick, I think.
 
DylanGer said:
DJ had the most natural ability and indeed could have played in several positions....MH worked harder and as a result achieved more....
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DJ achieved more in trophies won at Rangers then Hateley, Hateley applied himself far more in a more professional way overall than DJ but if achievement is counted as trophies won then DJs is the greater
 
MearnsUnionist said:
A terrible footballer for me, is someone who lacks all the basic technical qualities of the game.

Someone with the touch, control, ball striking ability, finishing and big game composure of Boyd, doesn't fall into that category for me.

Different opinions I guess and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Big game composure? Boyd was pretty famous for being dropped for most "big" games.

Everything you've mentioned are aspects of his finishing ability which I agree was excellent. You haven't offered any other aspects of his game that you considered to be good.
 
tazzabear said:
No, we did see the best.
It’s just that his best should have lasted for so much longer than it did.
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I don't think we did see his best, he hadn't hit his peak years by the time he was finished at Ibrox but what we did see from him was tremendous, for me he is the greatest all round player I've seen at Rangers. He had so much more to give though,imo
 
MearnsUnionist said:
My old man always says if DJ had been blessed with Parlane's pace, he would've been unplayable on the deck, as well as in the air Tazza.

I don't think Johnstone was particularly slow, as he was Dundee Schools 100m champion.
It's just that Parlane was exceptionally quick, I think.
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Wise man, your dad.
Loved Parlane as well.
It was covered on an H&H podcast recently, Parlane, for a big guy, missed out a lot through injury.
 
Chester Loyal said:
Big game composure? Boyd was pretty famous for being dropped for most "big" games.

Everything you've mentioned are aspects of his finishing ability which I agree was excellent. You haven't offered any other aspects of his game that you considered to be good.
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Boyd scored plenty of important goals for Rangers.

His work rate was poor, he wasn't great in the air, although he did score a good few headers and he lacked pace.
Other than that he was a good footballer.

He had an excellent 1st touch, was an excellent striker of a dead ball and his goalscoring ratio to number of chances was excellent.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Boyd scored plenty of important goals for Rangers.

His work rate was poor, he wasn't great in the air, although he did score a good few headers and he lacked pace.
Other than that he was a good footballer.

He had an excellent 1st touch, was an excellent striker of a dead ball and his goalscoring ratio to number of chances was excellent.
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I don't disagree, Boyd did score plenty of important goals for Rangers. It's also fair to say he was dropped from a lot of our "big" or more difficult matches due to his lack of overall contribution.

You're basically just repeating the points I've already agreed with. Boyd was a fantastic goalscorer but his overall play was very poor.
 
Chester Loyal said:
I don't disagree, Boyd did score plenty of important goals for Rangers. It's also fair to say he was dropped from a lot of our "big" or more difficult matches due to his lack of overall contribution.

You're basically just repeating the points I've already agreed with. Boyd was a fantastic goalscorer but his overall play was very poor.
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I haven't disagreed that parts of his game were poor.

It was the terminology "terrible footballer" I didn't like.

Anyway, let's move on.
 
Cooperfan said:
Ally McCoist. I'm not sure what he couldn't do?
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A far better footballer than he's given credit for.
He could play in a deeper role too. He wasn't brilliant in the air, but scored a lot of goals with his head, particularly later in his career.
Hateley was magnificent in his pomp, he had the lot.
Big DJ will always get my vote though. Better in the air than even Hateley and as good a finisher as we've had, it didn't matter how the ball came to him, left foot, right foot or in the air, he was deadly and he could play too. All he lacked was a yard or two of pace.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
I haven't disagreed that parts of his game were poor.

It was the terminology "terrible footballer" I didn't like.

Anyway, let's move on.
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Yeah we'll leave it there. I tried to leave the Kris Boyd debates in 2010 but I just can't help myself sometimes.

I suppose it shows just how good things are now that we're arguing about a striker who played for us a decade ago :D
 
I find this almost too difficult to call - mostly because there's one to many aspects to judge

I could be wrong here -
but if the likes of Brand, Millar & Forest - for example - weren't really encouraged or expected to help out with too many other duties - apart from attacking - then it's difficult to compare with those that are - such as Alfie

DJ was undoubtedly a stand out all over the pitch - but I'd be willing to bet if Jimmy Millar had been called upon to help out in central defence - he'd have made a decent attempt at it

In terms of placing the ball in the net the most times during minutes played - doesn't Negri win the stats table ?
Yet I'd never consider him to be an 'all-round' talent -
Sure he could score almost at will sometimes but I don't recall him pitching in with a great deal of 'support' play elsewhere on the pitch

Boyd was wonderful at times - but he was not the greatest football talent outside the 6 yard box

Stein, Parlane, McCoist, Hately, Prso, Jelavic, Canigia, Novo could all regularly score but were massive talents apart from their goals

Alfie has now developed into an 'all round' player as well imo
He's got a very different style from most of those mentioned above- but he's almost as effective imo
It'll be very interesting to see if his development continues- because he seems to me to have all the right signs to make it to the very top

I just hope he stays with us as long as possible
 
Mark Hateley
Ally McCoist
Maurice Johnston

Might just be some bias due to the era I grew up in, but all 3 were terrific strikers, each of them more recognised for a different aspect of forward play but all 3 performed every other part of the role to a standard that means they could all have been considered world class.

Hateley was the powerhouse
Mccoist the natural finisher
Johnston the workhorse whose movement made opportunities for him and the team.

We had all 3 of these guys at the same time.

Since then, Jelavic was probably the next best in terms of all round forward play, and now we've got Buff who, like this whole team, is on the brink of becoming very very special.
 
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neggenad said:
For my era, Kenny Miller deserves a mention.
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Probably won’t be that popular, but that six months or so before he left for Turkey - not sure I’ve seen anyone in that form consistently for us, although happy to be shown otherwise.
 
Ronnietheranger said:
To say that DJ wasted his talent is ridiculous, there have been threads on here before detailing his achievements and stats throughout his career and the numbers stand up to anybody’s.
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Simply history being rewritten his fitness was poor post '78 as was his attitude to watch DJ in the late 70's and early 80's was completely different from his early days.....
 
The DazzleGer said:
On his day Morelos is the best I've seen in 50 years
But not the most consistent .
Michael Mols but for his in injury is up there
Derek Johnsrone and Hately were good..
McCoist better.
Morelos best
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When you consider the level Hateley played and the damage he did Celtic etc Alfie simply isn't at the races
 
Can’t really separate..
Colin Stein..Derek Johnstone..Mark Hately.

My dad was always singing the praises of Jimmy Millar and Jim Forrest. Unfortunately I was to young to see those guys.
 
Johansen said:
DJ achieved more in trophies won at Rangers then Hateley, Hateley applied himself far more in a more professional way overall than DJ but if achievement is counted as trophies won then DJs is the greater
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DJ had the much longer career at Rangers jings he won a trophy almost single handedly at 16......when Cruyff saw DJ in '72/73 he said he was good enough to play for Ajax the point is DJ when he got to near his peak didn't apply himself to training etc and he's the first to admit it.....for the likes of myself as I watched Rangers go into decline in the late 70's it was hard not to be annoyed at DJ.
 
DylanGer said:
DJ had the much longer career at Rangers jings he won a trophy almost single handedly at 16......when Cruyff saw DJ in '72/73 he said he was good enough to play for Ajax the point is DJ when he got to near his peak didn't apply himself to training etc and he's the first to admit it.....for the likes of myself as I watched Rangers go into decline in the late 70's it was hard not to be annoyed at DJ.
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After 1979 he certainly didn't apply himself as he should have and as I said previously that despite showing his great ability up until about him being aged 24/25 he still had so much more to give as he hadn't hit his peak years
 
I'm 40 so can only really comment from 1990 but before I opened the thread my first thought was Hateley.
 
Ronnietheranger said:
To say that DJ wasted his talent is ridiculous, there have been threads on here before detailing his achievements and stats throughout his career and the numbers stand up to anybody’s.
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You have two DJ's though,pre & post 1978.

At the end of season 1977-78, Derek was 24 and had the football world at his feet (or maybe head). A distinct lack of professionalism on DJ's part meant that, what should've been his peak years were nowhere near as successful as he had been pre1978. That is indisputable.
A fully fit and committed Derek Johnstone could've helped John Greig so much more than he actually did, that's not to disguise Greig's obvious failings as a manager.
 
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Ruben Sosa said:
Hateley was fantastic in the air, very good on the deck with a great left foot, and also very fast.

That puts him as the top all rounder for me.
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Hateley could take the ball from the halfway line and run on and score. I remember one goal against the sheep he absolutely skinned David Winnie and left him in his wake. His hair flying about was something to behold, the sight of that juggernaut running at you must have terrorised goalies and defenders alike.
 
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