The biggest game in English football? Liverpool vs Manchester United | Us and Them

Ally_no9 said:
Biggest rivalry which has been taken over by football “tourists” with their half and half scarves and shite
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You really think tickets for this game go out on general sale? It will be season ticket holders only and then onto the membership scheme for those who go Regularly
 
Macca said:
You really think tickets for this game go out on general sale? It will be season ticket holders only and then onto the membership scheme for those who go Regularly
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I’ve seen companies on fb that bring over Chinese and American tourists for this game. Wait and see the amount of half and half scarves on sale tomorrow. There is so many tickets set aside for these “football tours” now. Big money in it
 
Danger Zone said:
Passion, atmosphere, history, drama, competitive edge. My careful use of the word “nothing” clearly implies I’m comparing the fixture to every other fixture in Britain.

The only way it doesn’t win out is quality, but then Liverpool vs City is the highest quality game in Britain these days.
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How are you measuring those things? For example drama .......
 
It’s the biggest game in English football but not British.

When did their rivalry really begin?

It was post war before Liverpool and Man Utd began to occupy the positions in the English game that they have now and probably into the Sixties before it really became the fixture it is now.
 
Macca said:
And let’s not pretend that both aren’t massive football clubs with massive supports in their respective cities as well as worldwide. Jesus, where do you start with people picking holes in Man Utd and Liverpool. I agree with the fact our atmosphere on it’s day Is better but let’s not kid ourselves about how big these 2 teams are
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Who said they werent massive football clubs with global support? Certainly wasnt me.
 
Manbearpig said:
Pool United is a rivalry born out of them once being the 2 most successful clubs in the league and 1 over taking the other as the dominant club. It's purely a success based rivalry. Our rivalry is born from a genuine hardened, raw, burning hatred of each other, completely opposing ideologies, Faith's and morals (one having none). Commercially the pool utd one is bigger, from an emotive, historic and genuine fanbase perspective (a genuine fanbase, not Malaysian, African and American sheep whom probably couldn't name 5 players), ours is bigger
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Nope. It was the biggest game in England in the days of Shankly and Bobby Charlton. Long before the days of global audience this was England's jewel in the crown.
 
Woodrow Call said:
Nope. It was the biggest game in England in the days of Shankly and Bobby Charlton. Long before the days of global audience this was England's jewel in the crown.
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It's probably thanks to Shankly it is Woodrow.

Liverpool were languishing in the 2nd division when he took them over and Everton were the biggest and best supported team on Merseyside.

Revie got Leeds promoted and Shankly the same with Liverpool and they became the best 2 teams in the country very quickly.
 
Man Utd v Liverpool is definitely a bigger game than ours. More people in the UK watch it, more people overseas watch it. Both clubs' fanbase and appeal is bigger and wider than ours and both clubs are way more successful than ours in terms of prestige trophy hauls. They also have far better players and are of a far higher standard and quality. Of course it's a bigger game. Even SG says so.
 
It’s just a local rivalry at the end of the day, two big clubs from adjacent cities. Might have a global appeal but I don’t think the millions of plastic fans from Norway to Thailand lose any sleep the night before or feel physically sick before kick off,
It’s just down to geography and doesn’t have any of the other connotations that makes ours so poisonous.
 
I certainly wouldn't be playing down or dismissing the level of rivalry between these two sets of fans. To do so would be quite ignorant. There is a deep hatred there. Scousers and Mancs detest each other.
 
Bluebrox said:
I certainly wouldn't be putting down or dismissing the level of rivalry between these two sets of fans. To do so would be quite ignorant. There is a deep hatred there.
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Originates from the building of the Manchester Ship Canal apparently mate, which led to a lot of Scouse dockers losing their jobs.

The building of it also meant Manchester became the premier city in the North West.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Originates from the building of the Manchester Ship Canal apparently mate, which led to a lot of Scouse dockers losing their jobs.

The building of it also meant Manchester became the premier city in the North West.
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There does seem to be a particularly smug arrogance about Manchester as a city, considering the size of it. No bigger than. Glasgow and half the size of Birmingham but sees itself as some kind of “London of the North”.
 
Clicker said:
There does seem to be a particularly smug arrogance about Manchester as a city, considering the size of it. No bigger than. Glasgow and half the size of Birmingham but sees itself as some kind of “London of the North”.
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It’s not London of the north, it’s manchester and it does have a smug arrogance, which has been earned through the decades, from music to sport to industry. I’ve lived here 20 years and love the place
 
Macca said:
It’s not London of the north, it’s manchester and it does have a smug arrogance, which has been earned through the decades, from music to sport to industry. I’ve lived here 20 years and love the place
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Until fairly recently it was only known for being drab and having constant rain.
 
Kylegib said:
For atmosphere you're correct nothing comes close to an old firm game but Liverpool v Man U is the biggest game in Britain.
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It’s not the biggest game in England this season. Ask any ‘Pool fan which Manchester club he most wants 6 points from this season.
 
sirstevefleming said:
How are you measuring those things? For example drama .......
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The same way i gauge any form of entertainment, my eyes. That and knowing that Man Utd and Liverpool have barely competed directly against one another for the title over the last 30 years.

I still can’t figure out why @Bluebrox thinks that Sky beaming a game to more countries across the world somehow makes it a better fixture. So some little part time glory hunter on the other side of the world gets to see the game, big deal? Surely better parameters would be atmosphere, history, drama, and whether the two clubs are in direct competition for the championship. I’ve never thought a fixture was standout based purely on the fact a huge TV company are paying for it to be shown all over the world.
 
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Our game with the rats only tops it in terms of noise and colour as it’s no contest in terms of interest around the world and the more prestigious histories of England’s big 2 but I have no doubts there are SOME Liverpool and Manchester United fans just as twisted hate filled and obsessed as the average Celtic fan but Celtic win that one hands down as jealousy bitterness hate and obsession is at the core of the majority of the Celtic community, it’s a hard thing to quantify but for all the fiercest of rivalries in football/sport I don’t think there can be any that matches the disturbing and creepy antics of the mhanky mob.
 
Bluebrox said:
I certainly wouldn't be playing down or dismissing the level of rivalry between these two sets of fans. To do so would be quite ignorant. There is a deep hatred there. Scousers and Mancs detest each other.
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Not true. I work in Manchester and live in Merseyside. There is a rivalry but certainly not a hatred.
 
Bluebrox said:
Man Utd v Liverpool is THE game in England. And globally it is f.ucking massive. Has way, way more interest than our game v mentally challengeds. Audience numbers trounce ours. A truly global match, with a truly global interest.
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It is......purely due to the league they play in and the quality of player on show.
 
Bluebrox said:
Possibly. But ours has been shit many times as well.

But in terms of global coverage and interest their game pisses all over us. Ours is purely domestic with a small number of ex-pats looking in overseas. Very little interest outwith that.
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Certainly not disagreeing with your main point, but having worked all over, I’d disagree that there is very little interest in the fixture overseas.

The Rangers/ Smeltic fixture was already known globally, and is even more so with the appointment of our gaffer. You’d be surprised.
 
ssblue said:
In terms of fan base and history it is the biggest game.

Nowadays it is a match between the European champions and mid table also rans with an out of his depth manager.
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I don't get the history bit, unless you mean from the mid 1960s onwards.

Three clubs benefited from TV in the 60s more than most. That pair from Lancashire and the filth.
 
Man United and Arsenal was the best rivarly in England when both teams were good.

Liverpool and Man United haven't been on the same level consistently in my lifetime
 
tottie beck said:
Record English league winners versus the most successful English side in the Europe. I don’t see how anyone can argue it’s not one of the biggest rivalries globally. Possibly only Real Madrid v Barcelona tops it.

Sure, Rangers against the mentally challengeds is more bitter and fiercely contested, but the way modern football has developed money talks and the bigger leagues will have greater pull because their financial advantage allows them to attract better players, and better players will draw greater interest
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The biggest rivalry money can buy.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Originates from the building of the Manchester Ship Canal apparently mate, which led to a lot of Scouse dockers losing their jobs.

The building of it also meant Manchester became the premier city in the North West.
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I read something in 'United We Stand' yonks ago and the author of said wee scribble preened himself at the fact that Manchester had sod all to do with the slave trade.

Possibly I missed something here in between. Liverpool did the boats thing, getting cotton in. = Bad

Manchester did the fancy end, what with the cotton mills and so forth. = Good

And here's me thinking I'm a luddite of a football fan for hating the most corrupt, fascist, twisted and depraved cult in the world.
 
Monts1310 said:
Not sure if your being serious, or not.
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What’s your experience of it? I live here. Could watch it in the local with a Utd top on and have some banter but that would be it. Tell me what part of Merseyside you live in.
 
Undoubtedly the biggest rivalry in England. The two biggest and most successful clubs and the two biggest supports. Chuck in the history between the two cities too. But it is absolutely nowhere near our thing. It's the closest the English have though.
 
ssblue said:
In terms of fan base and history it is the biggest game.

Nowadays it is a match between the European champions and mid table also rans with an out of his depth manager.
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That's it I'm putting a score on man u.

Football can be a funny old game.
 
Ally_no9 said:
Biggest rivalry which has been taken over by football “tourists” with their half and half scarves and shite
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Nothing wrong with a few “football tourists”. In days gone by they were called “neutrals”. I’d like to think I might be able to take in this game we’re i in England at the time (or El Classico if I were in Spain, etc, etc)I don’t see the harm in football fans taking in games other than the ones their own team plays in should the opportunity present itself. As for half and half scarfs, they’re just a souvenir of the day. Personally I prefer a programme, but to each their own.

I’ve no doubt the vast majority of people attending tomorrow will be English based United or Liverpool fans.
 
I’ve obviously been to numerous Old Firm games and I’ve been to numerous Liverpool Utd games. Been in the Liverpool end at Old Trafford 5 times and although the rivalry and hatred is massive, the atmosphere doesn’t come on par with our games up here.

Although, the best ever atmosphere at a half time was when we drew with Utd 1-1 in Europa league and we scored just before half time to put the tie out of site. The full 15 minutes was basically the goal celebration euphoria over and over again.
 
Woodrow Call said:
Nope. It was the biggest game in England in the days of Shankly and Bobby Charlton. Long before the days of global audience this was England's jewel in the crown.
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it wasn't until the late 70's that this game took off. Liverpool had won 2 European cups sending United's entitled fan base into fits of jealousy and rage.That's when this fixture developed the intensity it has now.
 
kilbirnie bear said:
I've been at one Utd Liverpool game at Old Trafford,1984.
Battles galore outside is what i remember most. Liverpool fans piled off a train on the line next to Old Trafford and it was mayhem
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The Manchester Liverpool thing has been going on since the 70's. Famously, Liverpool and Everton had to play a league cup final replay at Maine Road in 1984 and after the game Scousers were attacked all along the route to the city centre by local gangs which saw hooligans from City and United teaming up together.
 
Blues and Royals said:
it wasn't until the late 70's that this game took off. Liverpool had won 2 European cups sending United's entitled fan base into fits of jealousy and rage.That's when this fixture developed the intensity it has now.
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Maybe but it was still a massive fixture in the days of Best, Law and Charlton. United's fan base are a million miles from entitled. They took a relegation on the chin and still turned up in massive numbers. These days they are mid table mediocre yet the crowds and TV audience are through the roof. I don't really get the hatred on here. Surely it's not because they've employed a few bead rattlers over the years.
 
HandsomeHead said:
It’s the biggest game in English football but not British.

When did their rivalry really begin?

It was post war before Liverpool and Man Utd began to occupy the positions in the English game that they have now and probably into the Sixties before it really became the fixture it is now.
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Indeed. I think people forget that Man Utd were relegated in the 70's too. In fairness they've always been a big club and were pulling in 60k crowds in the second tier but they weren't the global powerhouse they are now.
 
Imagine - unlike even Liverpool v Man Utd - sitting beside a Chinese/Spanish/American type tourist wearing a half Rangers/half Scum scarf at an Old Firm game?

No, me neither. Thankfully.
 
Woodrow Call said:
Maybe but it was still a massive fixture in the days of Best, Law and Charlton. United's fan base are a million miles from entitled. They took a relegation on the chin and still turned up in massive numbers. These days they are mid table mediocre yet the crowds and TV audience are through the roof. I don't really get the hatred on here. Surely it's not because they've employed a few bead rattlers over the years.
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Took relegation on the chin ? They rioted in their own stadium the day they went down and wrecked just about every away ground in the old 2nd division.
 
Blues and Royals said:
Took relegation on the chin ? They rioted in their own stadium the day they went down and wrecked just about every away ground in the old 2nd division.
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The Law says "doon ye gae" .......
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