The board must share some of the blame.

[Northampton Lodger]

You can work behind the scenes to undermine their unjustified credibility with UEFA. You can lobby, you can gain influence and allies. It’s not a quick process, it’s not going to have an effect overnight, but it can be done and it needs to be done.

Yep, Rangers will take on single handedly an organisation that are perceived by everyone else to be standing up for equality so that supporters can chant songs about f@nians, the Pope and the IRA. At the same time we will be seeking to line up blue chip sponsorship deals.

 

[Commentator]

Do you not think the Chairman and Managers comments yesterday are clear enough ?

'Clear'? yes ,'enough', no. If you continue to do the same things and expect different results etc. The club has to become proactive and do much, much more to manage its reputation, see this as an opportunity.

 

[LJ50]

Yep, Rangers will take on single handedly an organisation that are perceived by everyone else to be standing up for equality so that supporters can chant songs about f@nians, the Pope and the IRA. At the same time we will be seeking to line up blue chip sponsorship deals.

Where did I say they should do so in order to allow people to sings about “19th Century Terrorists, the Pope and the IRA”? Show me where I even hinted at that.

But, as I’ve said elsewhere, if we don’t try to mitigate their malign intent on focusing on us then we can be absolutely fucking certain they’ll find something else to attack us for. They’re influenced by people who will happily, disingenuously claim that the Bouncy is an anthem about jumping on Catholic’s heads. If you think that, if left unchecked, they’ll stop at TBB and 19th Century Terrorist then I’m afraid you’re naive.

 

[westenclosurebear]

The club lacks leadership, is re-active and effectively asks to be shafted. Embarrassingly amateur.

Dave King took to the pitch last season and appealed to the fans.

We've launched a new initiative.

Yet a fans group decides to sing the Billy Boys knowing FARE are in the stadium. And that's the fault of the Board?

 

[BunkMoreland]

It’s been obvious for years that the songbook had to change. Yet we got follow with pride.
We knew that FARE were monitoring our games and all we got was a message from the SLO.
Then the board launched everyone, anyone and it was great. However, it did not address the elephant in the room.
Now we are facing a heavy price for them being incompetent.
So It now needs the board to call a meeting with all those who represent the Rangers support and sort It.
So get round the table and sort the mess out.
The Rangers support is waiting for change and direction.So if the board won’t call a meeting Will someone please take the lead and sort it out.

This is unbelievable. Stop shifting the blame. The support are to blame here.

 

[Greebo]

Dave King took to the pitch last season and appealed to the fans.

We've launched a new initiative.

Yet a fans group decides to sing the Billy Boys knowing FARE are in the stadium. And that's the fault of the Board?

It's just people coming up with excuses. The same as saying the board have not been clear enough on this matter, or the statement is not in plain enough English.

People know what is unacceptable, they decide to do it anyway, the club is punished, people blame the club for that.

The Chairman and the Manager making public statements is clearly not enough for some people. It's not that they don't understand, it's that they don't care. They will do what they want to do anyway.

 

[JW1988]

"It shouldnt take the board"? The point is it DOES take the board to take control of the situation. They're behaving like rank amateurs and it makes me wonder about their ability to engage professionally with the fans.

Give it a rest. You have clogged up every thread with this incessant drivel. The fans who indulge in these banned songs are to blame
Not the club, not UEFA, not the SFA, not Journalists, not the 3000 fans (the majority of which are probably decent law abiding fans)

What do you want the club to do?

 

[Commentator]

This may be true but in the case of being told of a list of songs not to sing people are just being wilfully stupid by asking for “ leadership” .

The list is out there , everyone knows it so I’m not buying the board getting the blame for this one .

HB, you're missing it, it needs much more than repeating "don't sing the songs" and pointing fingers. We're in this situation because of a failure of leadership. We have a serious issue with those who won't stop singing these songs but rather than get involved and trying to influence the culprits, the board did too little and hoped to disassociate the club from the offences. How did that work out? 'Everyone, Anyone' is good but not enough.
Briefly, my view is that the way to tackle this to publicly engage with the UBs and apply the carrot and the stick. But I don't see anyone at the club with that skillset.
Our message management is amateurish and stuck in the past. We need professionalism.

 

[Rick Roberts]

Where did I say they should do so in order to allow people to sings about “19th Century Terrorists, the Pope and the IRA”? Show me where I even hinted at that.

But, as I’ve said elsewhere, if we don’t try to mitigate their malign intent on focusing on us then we can be absolutely fucking certain they’ll find something else to attack us for. They’re influenced by people who will happily, disingenuously claim that the Bouncy is an anthem about jumping on Catholic’s heads. If you think that, if left unchecked, they’ll stop at TBB and 19th Century Terrorist then I’m afraid you’re naive.

I agree with this. We need to be growing a generation that are savvy enough and have a support structure to get into these organisations. See it as a career. *

A rather obvious point, go to FARE and ask how how many Indigenous Scots Rangers supporters are represented within their group? Demand to be part of it. Then understand how they work and neutralise any obvious corruption.

Same as for the BBC.

* btw in most cases celtic have created these positions out of thin air, and all from the public, or someones else's, purse.

 

[Commentator]

Dave King took to the pitch last season and appealed to the fans.

We've launched a new initiative.

Yet a fans group decides to sing the Billy Boys knowing FARE are in the stadium. And that's the fault of the Board?

It demonstrably wasn't successful, was it? The club needs to respond to the threats it faces.

 

[HenningBerg]

HB, you're missing it, it needs much more than repeating "don't sing the songs" and pointing fingers. We're in this situation because of a failure of leadership. We have a serious issue with those who won't stop singing these songs but rather than get involved and trying to influence the culprits, the board did too little and hoped to disassociate the club from the offences. How did that work out? 'Everyone, Anyone' is good but not enough.
Briefly, my view is that the way to tackle this to publicly engage with the UBs and apply the carrot and the stick. But I don't see anyone at the club with that skillset.
Our message management is amateurish and stuck in the past. We need professionalism.

Agreed for the most part but for me the time has come for a hardline approach for the FTP brigade who simply will not be told regardless of by whom and why .

 

[Square and compass]

The problem isnt like when i was there at 18 in the mid eighties, however the world has changed since then .
Lets be honest- the full stadium sings the BB when we play celtic.
The away support is at times a joke, that at kilmarnock was embarassing, a minority obviously .
Partick a couple of years ago as well.
The board with the pedro/ ashley fiasco is another embarassment.
Fans and the board really need to get their act together.
They will be lapping this up in the east.
Sad tidings in deed.

 

[legalbeagle]

We have had decades of various people inside and outside of the club asking for this to be stopped. This is squarely the fault of fans singing songs that we all know gets us fines and criticism. The most I would blame the board for is not chucking people out the ground and taking season tickets off them.

 

[Laudrup1]

You can work behind the scenes to undermine their unjustified credibility with UEFA. You can lobby, you can gain influence and allies. It’s not a quick process, it’s not going to have an effect overnight, but it can be done and it needs to be done.

Thank goodness someone gets it.

 

[LOL 133]

Give it a rest. You have clogged up every thread with this incessant drivel. The fans who indulge in these banned songs are to blame
Not the club, not UEFA, not the SFA, not Journalists, not the 3000 fans (the majority of which are probably decent law abiding fans)

What do you want the club to do?

You claim Ive clogged up the threads but you still dont know what I want the club to do.

I think I understand why the club needs to work harder.

 

[bornabluenose]

HB, you're missing it, it needs much more than repeating "don't sing the songs" and pointing fingers. We're in this situation because of a failure of leadership. We have a serious issue with those who won't stop singing these songs but rather than get involved and trying to influence the culprits, the board did too little and hoped to disassociate the club from the offences. How did that work out? 'Everyone, Anyone' is good but not enough.
Briefly, my view is that the way to tackle this to publicly engage with the UBs and apply the carrot and the stick. But I don't see anyone at the club with that skillset.
Our message management is amateurish and stuck in the past. We need professionalism.

Pro activity required, the blame game has to stop and action taken to kill the behaviour.

 

[Grimsdale]

It’s been obvious for years that the songbook had to change. Yet we got follow with pride.
We knew that FARE were monitoring our games and all we got was a message from the SLO.
Then the board launched everyone, anyone and it was great. However, it did not address the elephant in the room.
Now we are facing a heavy price for them being incompetent.
So It now needs the board to call a meeting with all those who represent the Rangers support and sort It.
So get round the table and sort the mess out.
The Rangers support is waiting for change and direction.So if the board won’t call a meeting Will someone please take the lead and sort it out.

The board are incompetent. Christ the board just managed to get a football legend who is trying to build a winning team for us to support in the proper manner. You can't expect them to have a meeting to tell people to stop singing. Their statement is strong and should be enough for any decent person to understand .

 

[SPRINGBOKS]

The club lacks leadership, is re-active and effectively asks to be shafted. Embarrassingly amateur.

Supporters that let the club down are the embarrassment not the board.

 

[LOL 133]

Thank goodness someone gets it.

Its a bit of a struggle but some can see the problem is a bit more complicated than the 'just stop singing' approach.

 

[Commentator]

Agreed for the most part but for me the time has come for a hardline approach for the FTP brigade who simply will not be told regardless of by whom and why .

I empathise with the emotion but exactly how do you see this being implemented?

 

[Gogso]

But it’s ok to sully the head of the commonwealth without any fear of punishment? I see what you are saying but absolutely infuriates me that it’s a one way street and many of us are accepting it. This is why they continue to walk all over us. We need as a support and a club to grow a collective set of balls and fight for parity. That’s all I want, I don’t want Rangers to receive special treatment I just want us treated on an equal basis. That isn’t too much to ask for imo.

Sounds as though you have self justified singing whatever you damn well want to?

 

[Barrymoped]

Dave King took to the pitch last season and appealed to the fans.

We've launched a new initiative.

Yet a fans group decides to sing the Billy Boys knowing FARE are in the stadium. And that's the fault of the Board?

It’s burying heads in the sand.

There are one group of people to blame here. The support who continue to sing these songs. End of.

And as a supporter who used to sing them myself (didn’t we all at one point) I take no pleasure in saying that.

It’s now starting to cause the club real damage and will only get far worse if it continues, if that doesn’t make them stop the I don’t know what will.

 

[LOL 133]

The board are incompetent. Christ the board just managed to get a football legend who is trying to build a winning team for us to support in the proper manner. You can't expect them to have a meeting to tell people to stop singing. Their statement is strong and should be enough for any decent person to understand .

You say their statement should be enough but evidence suggests otherwise. It'll take more than a statement. So far the board have failed with regards to the songbook.

 

[HenningBerg]

I empathise with the emotion but exactly how do you see this being implemented?

I see the club stopping taking away tickets for games if it doesn’t stop . At Ibrox the problem is minimal but European games and OF I could see over the top stewarding and policing where people are huckled out of their seats until it stops . Horrible thought I know but there it is .

 

[Commentator]

Supporters that let the club down are the embarrassment not the board.

Too simplistic, Springboks. A failure of leadership has contributed to where we are now.
It's a bit like the contrast between Murty and Gerrard.

 

[LOL 133]

Sounds as though you have self justified singing whatever you damn well want to?

Sounds like you didnt understand his post.

 

[Barrymoped]

We have had decades of various people inside and outside of the club asking for this to be stopped. This is squarely the fault of fans singing songs that we all know gets us fines and criticism. The most I would blame the board for is not chucking people out the ground and taking season tickets off them.

I think this is the next step. If it continues the club simply have to take a real hardline stance. Nobody wants a fellow bear to lose their right to support the club but if you cannot or will not behave in a way that doesn’t get the club in trouble then there is no real alternative

 

[Gogso]

HB, you're missing it, it needs much more than repeating "don't sing the songs" and pointing fingers. We're in this situation because of a failure of leadership. We have a serious issue with those who won't stop singing these songs but rather than get involved and trying to influence the culprits, the board did too little and hoped to disassociate the club from the offences. How did that work out? 'Everyone, Anyone' is good but not enough.
Briefly, my view is that the way to tackle this to publicly engage with the UBs and apply the carrot and the stick. But I don't see anyone at the club with that skillset.
Our message management is amateurish and stuck in the past. We need professionalism.

And just how stuck in the past is singing TBB?

 

[O.K. Bear]

We’re seriously stretching and going down the road of stupidly on here.

 

[Commentator]

I see the club stopping taking away tickets for games if it doesn’t stop . At Ibrox the problem is minimal but European games and OF I could see over the top stewarding and policing where people are buckled out of their seats until it stops . Horrible thought I know but there it is .

Something like that is going to have to come but, again, that's reactive.
One thing I cannot understand is how the culprits aren't captured on camera. If the Natzi polis cameras aren't getting it what are they getting? Why don't the club put in high res cameras and identify who needs weeded out. It may be dozens at the moment but ban several sine die and it'd have an affect.
We simply must stop being reactive - across the board(not 'the' board).

 

[Commentator]

And just how stuck in the past is singing TBB?

Terrific! We've found something to agree on, G.

 

[ibroxbound]

The board haven't been silent on this, even Gerrard has spoken about it.
Only fault of the club is not taking action against the UB at an earlier stage.

The board are guilty of bigger things than not sorting out the UB.
We are an easy target due to the lack of balls from this and previous boards.

 

[Deleted member 125]

The club have tip-toed round the issue.

"Everyone, Anyone" is a soft campaign dreamed up by a marketing company which, iMO shows a limited understanding of our support. It's a template, off the shelf "inclusivity" campaign as opposed to something that shows any real understanding of our predicament, or indeed the journey that many of us must complete.

I'm not condoning the singing, however, I question whether the support would be as defiant if there had been more engagement with the fans, and The Board were more vocal in defending our support from the attacks that come our way. The silence from our custodians after the Killie debacle was another slap in the face. The only statement came from C1872, well over a week later. I question their strategy of issuing things through C1872, 4lads, CoplandRoad.org et al.

Compare and contrast the other mobs response to Tom Boyd's comments.

There needs to be an honest appraisal, and admission of where we are at as a club and a support. We need to acknowledge that there may be challenges in changing a mindset or a songbook. The club should be working with groups like the UB and could take the lead in what is played over the tannoy and how we respect our history without leaving us open to punishment.

Simply, more honesty, courage and thought. Perhaps even a little more carrot and less stick.

They strike me as both embarrased and terrified of having a grown up conversation. This seems almost endemic of Scots' Protestant culture. When members of the other mob do well for themselves and join the chattering classes, they make no secret of their allegiance and their beliefs

To be clear though, if we knew the consequences of the F word at European games then we should not have sung them. Asking The Board for more is in no way an excuse for our own act of self-harm.

 

[Ger572]

It’s been obvious for years that the songbook had to change. Yet we got follow with pride.
We knew that FARE were monitoring our games and all we got was a message from the SLO.
Then the board launched everyone, anyone and it was great. However, it did not address the elephant in the room.
Now we are facing a heavy price for them being incompetent.
So It now needs the board to call a meeting with all those who represent the Rangers support and sort It.
So get round the table and sort the mess out.
The Rangers support is waiting for change and direction.So if the board won’t call a meeting Will someone please take the lead and sort it out.

Absolutely ridiculous comment to make!!!!

The majority of people responsible are grown adults who have to accept responsibility.

 

[Gogso]

Terrific! We've found something to agree on, G.

Had to happen eventually

 

[Shamrock hand and crown]

This is unbelievable. Stop shifting the blame. The support are to blame here.

Of course the support are to blame. But the board must take a share of the blame for not being firm enough.
Why didn’t they stick up on the screens ? ( Don’t sing the Billy boys or you will have you’re season ticket withdrawn)
Why didn’t they do they same with the word ( 19th Century Terrorist)
The board have not been strong enough on the song issue and it’s bit them big time.
All I want is for people to get round a table and sort it .

 

[imager]

Is the sash acceptable? Derry’s Walls.

They will be next.

only if halfheads continue to add FTP into them.

 

[Laudrup1]

We’re seriously stretching and going down the road of stupidly on here.

In what way? By calling out a board who failed to adopt a different tactic to the one that's failed since the mid 90s.

I'm sick of having to qualify this point but here goes again...

The fans shouldn't sing these songs. Those who did are the reason this ban and fine has arrived on our doorstep.

That said, the board isn't doing enough to ensure those working behind the scenes to see us hammered for every little thing and who help blacken our name on a daily basis are dealt with. They board wont tackle FARE publicly.

We have to let them in our stadium. That doesnt mean there shouldn't be public calling out of their twisted bias by our board.

They've admitted they wont though just as they wont tackle the BBC properly and as they don't take action on Spiers, English and stewart as they should.

They're not doing enough. The fans shouldn't sing the songs. Both of these things can be true.

 

[LOL 133]

The club have tip-toed round the issue.

"Everyone, Anyone" is a soft campaign dreamed up by a marketing company which, iMO shows a limited understanding of our support. It's a template, off the shelf "inclusivity" campaign as opposed to something that shows any real understanding of our predicament, or indeed the journey that many of us must complete.

I'm not condoning the singing, however, I question whether the support would be as defiant if there had been more engagement with the fans, and The Board were more vocal in defending our support from the attacks that come our way. The silence from our custodians after the Killie debacle was another slap in the face. The only statement came from C1872, well over a week later. I question their strategy of issuing things through C1872, 4lads, CoplandRoad.org et al.

Compare and contrast the other mobs response to Tom Boyd's comments.

There needs to be an honest appraisal, and admission of where we are at as a club and a support. We need to acknowledge that there may be challenges in changing a mindset or a songbook. The club should be working with groups like the UB and could take the lead in what is played over the tannoy and how we respect our history without leaving us open to punishment.

Simply, more honesty, courage and thought. Perhaps even a little more carrot and less stick.

They strike me as both embarrased and terrified of having a grown up conversation. This seems almost endemic of Scots' Protestant culture. When members of the other mob do well for themselves and join the chattering classes, they make no secret of their allegiance and their believes.

To be clear though, if we knew the consequences of the F word at European games then we should not have sung them. Asking The Board for more is in no way an excuse for our own act of self-harm.

Superb post. Probably the best Ive read on the subject.

 

[imager]

Of course the support are to blame. But the board must take a share of the blame for not being firm enough.
Why didn’t they stick up on the screens ? ( Don’t sing the Billy boys or you will have you’re season ticket withdrawn)
Why didn’t they do they same with the word ( 19th Century Terrorist)
The board have not been strong enough on the song issue and it’s bit them big time.
All I want is for people to get round a table and sort it .

its broadcast before every match what more do you need, personalised messages to every supporter by name "Joe Blogs dont sing TBB today"?

 

[LOL 133]

only if halfheads continue to add FTP into them.

You're wrong. They want the lot and they'll get it unless we draw a line in the sand. We need to establish the dos and donts and stick with it.

 

[LOL 133]

its broadcast before every match what more do you need, personalised messages to every supporter by name "Joe Blogs dont sing TBB today"?

Consultation and engagement. Not statements and messages. Cant you see the current approach isnt working?

 

[Commentator]

before every game at Ibrox for 10 years now they play a message over the tannoy about accepable behavior, if clowns then ignore it whos fault is that?

It's the clowns fault but that gets us nowhere. The board need a) acknowledge the threats we face and b) do something effective to counter them because it's the club that gets hammered.
In short, they need to do much more to protect the club.

 

[Greebo]

You're wrong. They want the lot and they'll get it unless we draw a line in the sand. We need to establish the dos and donts and stick with it.

Genuine question, by "they" do you mean UEFA. That is who imposed the latest punishment.

 

[Barryhopez]

Crazy, crazy logic in the OP.

 

[Faure there’s not a team]

The board aren’t to blame for folk singing the billy boys - a chant we all know UEFA frown on.

It’s time to stop blaming everyone else, shelve the whataboutery and get our own house in order.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

It’s been obvious for years that the songbook had to change. Yet we got follow with pride.
We knew that FARE were monitoring our games and all we got was a message from the SLO.
Then the board launched everyone, anyone and it was great. However, it did not address the elephant in the room.
Now we are facing a heavy price for them being incompetent.
So It now needs the board to call a meeting with all those who represent the Rangers support and sort It.
So get round the table and sort the mess out.
The Rangers support is waiting for change and direction.So if the board won’t call a meeting Will someone please take the lead and sort it out.

What's to 'sort out'? Ditch the non-Rangers songs (even the non-offensive ones as far as I'm concerned). Ditch the add-ons. Job done.

We don't need anyone to tell us what's right and wrong. We don't need anyone to tell us which songs make us targets. If we are honest with ourselves we all know.

 

[Commentator]

Crazy, crazy logic in the OP.

The board aren’t to blame for folk singing the billy boys

Guys, if you keep doing the same things you get the same results. The board must step up and manage this or something similar will crop up down the line. Take the lead, be proactive, protect the club. Surely it's not beyond King and co. to manage this?

 

[Shamrock hand and crown]

its broadcast before every match what more do you need, personalised messages to every supporter by name "Joe Blogs dont sing TBB today"?

Behave yourself, it should have been on the screens telling people at European matches this song will get us into serious trouble.
But crossing your fingers and toes and hoping people wouldn’t sing the song was a major failing and they are now paying the price.
When will the get round the table and sort it out . That’s not a lot to ask!

 

[Djave82]

Only those with the IQ of an ice cube need it spelling out to them - and they are beyond redemption anyway.

I don't need it spelled out to me, but I think the club needs to make a statement. If the club were to spell it out, then those who do it can be banned.

It's crowd psychology, we can't do it as fans as only a small minority of people will stand up to others in a crowd. It needs the club to do it.

It sets a line in the sand and then those who want to sing, with no regard for the rest of us or the club, can do it outside Ibrox.

 

[Tito]

Imagine having the fucking temerity to blame the board on this. It's staggeringly thick.

We've had people blame FARE, the media, the unseen republican hand (whatever the %^*& that is), the SNP, Celtic, and now the board.

If you think this is anybody else's fault other than the morons in our support who chant this crap, then you should probably stay the %^*& away from the football. In fact, you probably shouldn't leave the house.