The board must share some of the blame.

[JMCK]

It demonstrably wasn't successful, was it? The club needs to respond to the threats it faces.

I think you have a point, if I'm reading you correctly, about an on-going dialogue between the club and the fans; something, if I remember correctly, happened when Souness was here, and when Walter was manager first time round.

 

[Chris the Bandito]

The club have tip-toed round the issue.

"Everyone, Anyone" is a soft campaign dreamed up by a marketing company which, iMO shows a limited understanding of our support. It's a template, off the shelf "inclusivity" campaign as opposed to something that shows any real understanding of our predicament, or indeed the journey that many of us must complete.

I agree with most of your post but I think "Everyone Anyone" was probably a genuine attempt to hit the reset button because the club recognised "Follow with Pride" seemed so weak.

I think when the announcement was made about a rolling plan of follow ups the intention was probably to get in front of UEFA and be more pro-active/ engaging. I would expect this effort to be ramped up now but instead of being construed as welcome pro-active engagement the board's critics and the club's enemies will criticise it as window dressing/ closing the stable door/ kowtowing to FARE

 

[SPRINGBOKS]

Consultation and engagement. Not statements and messages. Cant you see the current approach isnt working?

Are you claiming our supporters are unable to read and understand simple messages?

 

[DoubleWhopper]

Where did I say they should do so in order to allow people to sings about “19th Century Terrorists, the Pope and the IRA”? Show me where I even hinted at that.

But, as I’ve said elsewhere, if we don’t try to mitigate their malign intent on focusing on us then we can be absolutely fucking certain they’ll find something else to attack us for. They’re influenced by people who will happily, disingenuously claim that the Bouncy is an anthem about jumping on Catholic’s heads. If you think that, if left unchecked, they’ll stop at TBB and 19th Century Terrorist then I’m afraid you’re naive.

This is what it all boils down to.

This comment is 100% correct.

It strikes pain in my heart that some people just don't get it. A blatant, poisonous, concerted campaign is being orchestrated against us and all we're supposed to do is accept it.

If the club wants to castigate its own supporters, it also needs to highlight the hypocrasies that exist elsewhere. When Rangers come out and purely lambasttheir own, without so much as a nod to other clubs, it plays beautifully into the narrative that we're the bad guys, and us alone.

I suppose any kind of a comment is a novelty of course, usually the club is deafeningly silent when it's lifeblood is under constant attack.

 

[Djave82]

Give it a rest. You have clogged up every thread with this incessant drivel. The fans who indulge in these banned songs are to blame
Not the club, not UEFA, not the SFA, not Journalists, not the 3000 fans (the majority of which are probably decent law abiding fans)

What do you want the club to do?

I'm not blaming the club or board for this, but they should now take the lead and ban people. Set the rules then if you sing it, you're out.

No 3 strikes or anything, you're in Ibrox, it's on black in white what will happen, if you sing TBB or 19th Century Terrorist you're not allowed back.

 

[Barryhopez]

Guys, if you keep doing the same things you get the same results. The board must step up and manage this or something similar will crop up down the line. Take the lead, be proactive, protect the club. Surely it's not beyond King and co. to manage this?

There has been periodic direction and 'ask' from the board over the years with regards to songs. Maybe self preservation but maybe it wasn't robust enough for some?

At the end if the day after being told of what's deemed offensive and asked to stop add ons/certain songs a lot of fans chose to ignore, say "%^*& off nobody tells me". That's their/my/your individual choice and that's what it boils down to.

Should the board(s) have been more robust? Possibly. Should people take individual responsibility? Absolutely.

We are getting into the realm of blaming everyone else for a situation brought on by individual choice, which helps nobody, IMO.

 

[O.K. Bear]

In what way? By calling out a board who failed to adopt a different tactic to the one that's failed since the mid 90s.

1. The board of the end 90s are gone.
2. I don’t need the board to say gonna no sing FTP and TBB. We’ve known for two decades what UEFA’s stance on it is.

 

[Faure there’s not a team]

Guys, if you keep doing the same things you get the same results. The board must step up and manage this or something similar will crop up down the line. Take the lead, be proactive, protect the club. Surely it's not beyond King and co. to manage this?

What more can the board do? They’ve launched campaigns to cut out bigotry, they’ve repeatedly asked fans not to chant things that will get the club into trouble. Arguably closing BF1 - which is perceived as the “problem area” is being proactive. The club aren’t going to win any battles over the use of the word 19th Century Terrorist. If people choose to ignore this or try and meet it with defiance it’ll simply drive a knife into our club.

 

[Shamrock hand and crown]

Imagine having the fucking temerity to blame the board on this. It's staggeringly thick.

We've had people blame FARE, the media, the unseen republican hand (whatever the %^*& that is), the SNP, Celtic, and now the board.

If you think this is anybody else's fault other than the morons in our support who chant this crap, then you should probably stay the %^*& away from the football. In fact, you probably shouldn't leave the house.

So you think that the board are exempt from any criticism on this issue?

 

[AriseSirWalter]

It’s been obvious for years that the songbook had to change. Yet we got follow with pride.
We knew that FARE were monitoring our games and all we got was a message from the SLO.
Then the board launched everyone, anyone and it was great. However, it did not address the elephant in the room.
Now we are facing a heavy price for them being incompetent.
So It now needs the board to call a meeting with all those who represent the Rangers support and sort It.
So get round the table and sort the mess out.
The Rangers support is waiting for change and direction.So if the board won’t call a meeting Will someone please take the lead and sort it out.

And what would the board say at the meeting?

Nothing that hasn’t been said since the 90s, fans shouldn’t be singing sectarian songs. We all know what sectarian songs are.

It’s our (the fans) responsibility and ours alone! Dave King isn’t belting TBB from the directors box. If you sing the songs you need to stop it now. If you hear someone sing them you need to have a word with them, if a section of the support are singing them then the rest need to boo them then drown them out with another song.

As unpleasant as it is, and I’m sure there will be arguments, this needs done for the benefit of Rangers.

It’s as simple as that we need to stop shifting blame to the board, fare, uefa, media and accept that it’s our doing and it is only us that can fix it. And by %^*& I hope we’re up to it.

 

[Kwodman]

Ffs yesterday it was the stewards and the polis that are at fault. Today its the board jeezo.
Im not denying for a minute that i have sung songs and shouted things that i shouldn't have. But times change and its now a no no to shout and sing these things now. So guess what dont sing or shout them as its damaging the club now.
If grown adults cant control what they sing or shout. They shouldn't be out unsupervised. This is the fans fault not the board stewards polis or any other thing that can be blamed.
If fans profess to love the club so much stop fucking hurting it by giving it ill sing what i want. Im not saying i agree with the law but its an offence now so shhhhhhh. Just get on with backing the team. Leave aw the ira pope nonsense fornthe boozer.

 

[Laudrup1]

1. The board of the end 90s are gone.
2. I don’t need the board to say gonna no sing FTP and TBB. We’ve known for two decades what UEFA’s stance on it is.

1) This board operate in the same way as the 90s board with regards to media relations, PR and failing to pick off our enemies effectively. From Hampden in the SCF to Killie to weeks back, its meek and not enough.
2) You and I dont need that. It's clear some in the support not bright enough/ too big to listen to sense.

2 is a separate issue from 1. Both are imperative to correct

 

[Tito]

So you think that the board are exempt from any criticism on this issue?

Yes I do actually. Unlike some, I don't need my shoes tied for me in the morning. Don't sing sectarian songs. It's not hard and we've known this for years

 

[Godrupsboot]

The board haven't been silent on this, even Gerrard has spoken about it.
Only fault of the club is not taking action against the UB at an earlier stage.

UB? I've heard way more people than the UB singing TBB. Sometimes about 80% of the stadium.

 

[DougieJones]

They’ll do anything to get this ‘ten’ before the paedophilic scandal sinks them. Kicking us down the leagues only partly worked so now we’re seeing Plan B in action. It stinks, it’s transparent, one sided, hypocritical, I get it

But

The ball is now in our court, anyone singing crap tomorrow should be identified and blacklisted, it’s that simple, the club’s last recourse to stop the inevitable.

 

[O.K. Bear]

1) This board operate in the same way as the 90s board with regards to media relations, PR and failing to pick off our enemies effectively. From Hampden in the SCF to Killie to weeks back, its meek and not enough.
2) You and I dont need that. It's clear some in the support not bright enough/ too big to listen to sense.

2 is a separate issue from 1. Both are imperative to correct

The current board have inherited the mess left by Murray. It'll take years to correct that, especially when our enemies are in positions of power across the media, SFA and in organisations such as FARE.

They're far from perfect but any attempt at laying the blame at their door is just nonsense.

 

[JW1988]

You claim Ive clogged up the threads but you still dont know what I want the club to do.

I think I understand why the club needs to work harder.

Or thickos can stop singing about 19th Century Terrorists, the pope etc

It’s no place at Ibrox
The club have stated it’s not welcome.

The only action they should and will take is permanent bans for anyone doing so.
And every one of them will cry about it, and I’ll laugh at them because they think they’re above the law and that their “right” to sing a song or shout religious bike is above the clubs well-being.
Go and do it at a police station if you’re all so certain there’s nothing wrong with it.
Thought not, it’s easy to be brave in a crowd

 

[Blue Goose]

The campaign, which has it's merits on paper, has spectacularly blown up in our faces. Religious comments or singing at football is a societal issue. Football only gives it a platform for 90mins. These charges are laughable in all honesty. Who was actually offended? Clubs supportets maraud around cities in Europe and are fighting with rival supporters and Police. Look at the scum. Anti Palestinian banners but only a fine?? The club should be calling out the hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[cw3038]

As we all know the “journalists” in this country wouldn’t condemn them or their support for anything yet would be quick to jump on a rangers supporter for farting ffs.
They have had years to comment on child abuse and the subsequent cover up yet have left it alone as big bad ranjurs are singing songs.
For what its worth my stance is he’s the add ons need to go, the fans need to get streetwise before our club gets even worse sanctions but it just absolutely pisses me off about the blatant inconsistencies when it comes to us. That’s my point and for the record I hate that whataboutery word. It’s a word invented by journalists to let them continue turning a blind eye

It allows them to keep their heads buried.........shitebags.

 

[Commentator]

I think you have a point, if I'm reading you correctly, about an on-going dialogue between the club and the fans; something, if I remember correctly, happened when Souness was here, and when Walter was manager first time round.

Correct, the club has to 'own' and proactively manage the fans because it's the club UEFA will punish. I'm genuinely staggered that the club hasn't realised this.

 

[The Huguenot]

Fans know what is right and what is wrong.

 

[Commentator]

There has been periodic direction and 'ask' from the board over the years with regards to songs. Maybe self preservation but maybe it wasn't robust enough for some?

At the end if the day after being told of what's deemed offensive and asked to stop add ons/certain songs a lot of fans chose to ignore, say "%^*& off nobody tells me". That's their/my/your individual choice and that's what it boils down to.

Should the board(s) have been more robust? Possibly. Should people take individual responsibility? Absolutely.

We are getting into the realm of blaming everyone else for a situation brought on by individual choice, which helps nobody, IMO.

Call it blame if you wish, I'm, I hope, trying to identify issues and potential solutions. The club's approach has failed to 'control' the destructive element so they have to stop that and go with something else, stop the 'them and us' thinking for a start. Bring them in. make them part of the solution. At least try.
Simply put, I think engagement with the UBs plus the carrot and stick would be more productive.

 

[Commentator]

[QUOTE="Alex, post: 4201109, member: 5732"]What more can the board do? They’ve launched campaigns to cut out bigotry, they’ve repeatedly asked fans not to chant things that will get the club into trouble. Arguably closing BF1 - which is perceived as the “problem area” is being proactive. The club aren’t going to win any battles over the use of the word 19th Century Terrorist. If people choose to ignore this or try and meet it with defiance it’ll simply drive a knife into our club.[/QUOTE]

How about stop doing the same demonstrably ineffective things? I must have thirty posts on here suggesting an approach, it couldn't be any worse than what's been done before.

 

[JMCK]

Correct, the club has to 'own' and proactively manage the fans because it's the club UEFA will punish. I'm genuinely staggered that the club hasn't realised this.

This is the most sensible opinion I've read so far. The broad scale of opinions and ideas from fans is making me a little concerned about the short and long term prospects of this being addressed properly. There needs to be more dialogue that irons this out more formally, in my opinion.

 

[Rocknroll]

There's a simple solution for the board. A PR campaign running over two-three home games advising of the damage that these idiots are causing the club, practically and reputationally. Next stage of campaign (another two or three home games) advising of new measures that will see the club identify anybody singing / shouting all the sectarian crap using CCTV. These people are then banned for Ibrox for life - and the seat given to one more deserving on the waiting list. Where 'thousands' are singing TBB, start tackling small section by section.

This would soon change mindset and behaviour of other fans. Would only result in good PR for the club - most fans would be behind tackling the issue and the media couldn't ignore it. Folk have had the chance to change their own behaviour - in full knowledge that this would happen one day soon - but have chosen to continue with the songs, shouts and addons. This would put the club in full control.

We can only shine the light on them lot on other side of the city once our own house is in order. 'We have managed to eradicate it, why can't you?'

I used to sing all the songs in my teens, but most folk tend to grow up. Absolutely %^*& all to do with football some of the shite we hear - and plenty of songs we can sing that don't talk about killing catholics, terrorist organisations, etc.

If we don't improve, these sanctions are just going to get ramped up and soon we will be playing behind closed doors. The SPFL / SFA won't be slow either in following suit. We can't afford to keep reacting with the 'they don't like us, we don't care'. We are in the wrong and must change.

 

[SPRINGBOKS]

So you think that the board are exempt from any criticism on this issue?

They (the board) are not the ones singing TBB or FTP so why try to blame them?

 

[Laudrup1]

The current board have inherited the mess left by Murray. It'll take years to correct that, especially when our enemies are in positions of power across the media, SFA and in organisations such as FARE.

They're far from perfect but any attempt at laying the blame at their door is just nonsense.

You're openly admitting theres issues from Murray's time. Those issues aren't the fans fault by the same comparisons singing songs isn't the board's fault

I'm telling you the board dont have the heart, want or nouse to fix that.

Ive really fucking had it with people responding to posts, polarising themselves and focusing on one point and ignoring the wider point being made just to suit their argument. It doesnt solve anything

I haven't for a second "laid the blame at their door"

I've continuslly said in the last 24 hours the fans have to stop singing the songs.

The board have to help from behind the scenes and they're not doing enough.

 

[Laudrup1]

They (the board) are not the ones singing TBB or FTP so why try to blame them?

No one is blaming the board for the songs being sung.

How clear does that point have to be made?

You're missing that more than the morons continuing to sing the songs miss the fact they should stop.

The board dont fight our detractors enough and it allows those people to make more of our problems.

The songs and the board's inactions are two separate things which cross over at points

 

[Barryhopez]

Call it blame if you wish, I'm, I hope, trying to identify issues and potential solutions. The club's approach has failed to 'control' the destructive element so they have to stop that and go with something else, stop the 'them and us' thinking for a start. Bring them in. make them part of the solution. At least try.
Simply put, I think engagement with the UBs plus the carrot and stick would be more productive.

Fan engagement is key in all of this. The fans need to buy into it if the board offer to hold serious discussions to move forward.

The UBs rightly or wrongly are held up as being the leaders by a lot of people. They can't even control their own section as described on another thread (I asked what their Capo/boss done and was told he can't stop a song 20 rows back).

So IF they are going to be leaders and IF they appoint a main man, then he should be demonstrating he can lead the way with backing of the members.

Fan engagement is key though I 100% agree.

 

[Craigie]

Are those who have been guilty of continuing to sing these songs and add ons needing the board to wipe their arse for them?

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

The board haven't been silent on this, even Gerrard has spoken about it.
Only fault of the club is not taking action against the UB at an earlier stage.

This is getting on my tits.

There's far worse sang on Merseyside about Man Utd. Yet we're being lamnbasted from those who hate us and from within.

Fecking sick of it.

I'd love a total boycott of a home game to get the message across to the board that enough is enough.

But it can't be the next one.

 

[Shamrock hand and crown]

Yes I do actually. Unlike some, I don't need my shoes tied for me in the morning. Don't sing sectarian songs. It's not hard and we've known this for years

Neither do I. However, I know a PR disaster when I see one and this is big.I have the upmost respect for King and the rest of the board.
But they have failed miserably when it comes to the problems with our song sheet.
It sad that it’s taken that shower of fascists to get our board to do something.

 

[HandsomeHead]

It shouldn't take the board to tell grown adults not to shout f*ck the pope at a football game.
I'm sorry but if you need led by the hand you probably shouldn't be allowed to go to football anyway.

Ban them.

You sing songs deemed to be sectarian at Ibrox, you are banned for life.

If we sung songs about blacks that would surely be the case.

There should be that level of punishment now.

If that drives away a section of our support, so be it.

 

[Installer]

This is getting on my tits.

There's far worse sang on Merseyside about Man Utd. Yet we're being lamnbasted from those who hate us and from within.

Fecking sick of it.

I'd love a total boycott of a home game to get the message across to the board that enough is enough.

But it can't be the next one.

What songs do they sing that contain UEFA banned words or phrases?

 

[O.K. Bear]

You're openly admitting theres issues from Murray's time. Those issues aren't the fans fault by the same comparisons singing songs isn't the board's fault

Whether we like or not, some songs won't be tolerated by UEFA. We've been warned more than enough times.

I'm telling you the board dont have the heart, want or nouse to fix that.

Fix what? The club can take the horse to the water, but they cannot make the horse drink it. If we choose to ignore the warnings FARE are in attendance and sing FTP/TBB, then the fault lies with those who ignored them.

I really fucking with people could respond to posts without polairising themselves.

What does that even mean? remember, you quoted me and mentioned the board.

I haven't for a second "laid the blame at their door"

You appear to be trying.

The board have to help from behind the scenes and they're not doing enough.

They do, but after decades of previous wankers running the club it'll take quite some time and most of the work, if not all, will be done behind closed doors. Not in statements or court battles.

 

[The Double A Man]

Time for the big thinkers on the board to get their caps on and come up with a solution.No point in being a leader if nobody is following you.

 

[Tito]

Neither do I. However, I know a PR disaster when I see one and this is big.I have the upmost respect for King and the rest of the board.
But they have failed miserably when it comes to the problems with our song sheet.
It sad that it’s taken that shower of fascists to get our board to do something.

Board: "Don't sing sectarian songs or we'll get punished"

Fans: "Nah, we'll do it anyway"

Club gets punished

Fans: "This is the board's fault"

That's how you see it? Really?

 

[Bada-Bing]

Aye, IMO sack the board.

 

[Rocknroll]

This is getting on my tits.

There's far worse sang on Merseyside about Man Utd. Yet we're being lamnbasted from those who hate us and from within.

Fecking sick of it.

I'd love a total boycott of a home game to get the message across to the board that enough is enough.

But it can't be the next one.

There are rules. As a support, we are actively ignoring those rules. Penalties are being applied.

We can talk all day about how 'celtic say this, liverpool do that' but it doesn't remove the fact that we continue to sing songs / shout phrases that are sectarian and banned.

Are the rules being unfairly applied? Yes. Can we, realistically, do anything about that? No.

Hypothetically, if the board were to 'act' on this unlevel playing field, they and we as a club would just be laughed at. What would we do? Issue a statement?

We get our own house in order and THEN we can start calling out hypocrisy. As long as we continue singing what we do, we have no power.

Folk don't like it because these are songs that have been sung for years, we feel that we are being targeted (we are!): but this is the only answer to this PR disaster.

For years now, we have not had our problems to seek. This is yet another stick our enemies can batter us with - but, fortunately, it is a problem that we as a support can easily fix. The question is will we do it? Or will we continue to cause our own club further turmoil because we are all too pigheaded to change? It is as simple as that.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

What songs do they sing that contain UEFA banned words or phrases?

Really? It's okay to sing songs about people dying in an airplane crash, it's okay for the vermin and dolly to sing about the Ibrox disaster and according to you it needs to be ratified by UEFA before it gets a bad press?

Fcuk me seven ways to next Sunday.

 

[Commentator]

Board: "Don't sing sectarian songs or we'll get punished"

Fans: "Nah, we'll do it anyway"

Club gets punished

Fans: "This is the board's fault"

That's how you see it? Really?

UEFA punish the club, the board manage the club, their 'initiatives' to stop this have been proven ineffective. Is it not logical, therefore, to look at alternative initiatives?
It's not about pointing fingers, it's about how best to prevent/reduce it happening again.

 

[Laudrup1]

You appear to be trying.



They do, but after decades of previous wankers running the club it'll take quite some time and most of the work, if not all, will be done behind closed doors. Not in statements or court battles.

I'm not trying to blame them for the songs being sung. I've said that on this thread and, like I said about people ignoring comments to suit their own argument, you're doing that to try and deflect from the points where the board have failed.

The club admitted to applicants at a recent employment opportunity that Stewart and Dickson won't change the tact to tackle these issues.

What they're doing isn't working and didnt work in the 90s.



This regime have done a lot for us.

The fans are to blame for singing these songs that landed this ban.

The board continue to fail in a number of key areas in tackling issues we face

Those three points are all true and theres no point in continuing to debate further if you want argue against them all being true.

 

[Forza_Napoli]

I think this pretty well sums it up.

Some people really DO need to be told several times about things (we've all seen them at work and school, and even in the pub).

Messages on the tannoy, notices on the big screens, flyers handed out, posters on the walls, a page in the programme, etc.

Repetition repetition.

Our Club has been pretty poor with heading off what many of us saw was coming.

It's all very well saying that those particular fans shouldn't need to be told over and over.
But some of them DO need to be told over and over.
And again.

I think its past that now they'll just make ab example of anyone who breaks the rules and right so once they catch a few people doing it and cancel there season tickets then the message will get through if people know there going to be heavily punished as an individual by the club then only then will they totally eradicate it

 

[stein and johnston]

I remember being on the Founders Trail and learning so much about our amazing history.
The guy who was running it said at the end of the tour, thanks to all of us for attending.. He then said something quite profound. He said we have this beautiful and amazing history yet we still want to sing about FTP and all the other garbage.... Why.???
He is 100% correct.

 

[roaring meg]

Is the sash acceptable? Derry’s Walls.

They will be next.

It will but they are going nowhere.
The words 19th Century Terrorist and pope should not be shouted or sung in the ground.
Thar simple for me

 

[Tito]

UEFA punish the club, the board manage the club, their 'initiatives' to stop this have been proven ineffective. Is it not logical, therefore, to look at alternative initiatives?
It's not about pointing fingers, it's about how best to prevent/reduce it happening again.

Okay, but no one has said anything substantive about that. In other words, what more do they want? Do people really want King, Robertson et al to sit down and draw up a list of songs/words/chants that are not acceptable? Do people really need that level of hand holding? And if they do that, I can't see it working anyway. We have had the messages played over the tannoys, the initiatives, the statements. Putting up a list of songs on the screens pre-game isn't likely to make a dent either.

And you say it isn't about finger pointing. Have you seen this place over the last 24 hours? All it's been is finger pointing (from some) at anyone they like other than the support. The desire to strip culpability from supporters is baffling.

 

[Danger Zone]

It shouldn't take the board to tell grown adults not to shout f*ck the pope at a football game.
I'm sorry but if you need led by the hand you probably shouldn't be allowed to go to football anyway.

This. It’s absolutely ridiculous, we’re talking about grown men and women, not a fucking classroom full of weans.

Reading some of the threads yesterday I honestly found it alarming, in spite of the threat of expulsion and further punishment you’ve still got fans who want to be defiant. Brain donors, every one of them.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

There’s people on here been arguing against anybody who has tried to tell them. Apparently the people who desperately want to sing these songs are better Rangers fans.
Nobody who has spent any time on here has anybody to blame except their own stupidity.

 

[Hipster Dashie]

The board needs to defend the fans. However for that to happen the fans need to be in a place the board can defend.

We need rid of the Bobby Sands brigade. It is embarrassing and cringeworthy.

Time for serious action now. It has to stop and those that can’t need chucked out.

 

[Commentator]

Okay, but no one has said anything substantive about that. In other words, what more do they want? Do people really want King, Robertson et al to sit down and draw up a list of songs/words/chants that are not acceptable? Do people really need that level of hand holding? And if they do that, I can't see it working anyway. We have had the messages played over the tannoys, the initiatives, the statements. Putting up a list of songs on the screens pre-game isn't likely to make a dent either.

And you say it isn't about finger pointing. Have you seen this place over the last 24 hours? All it's been is finger pointing (from some) at anyone they like other than the support. The desire to strip culpability from supporters is baffling.

Personally, I think we do need that level of managing and we need someone new to do this, we don't have a charismatic leader on the current board.