The Club In Process of Banning Fans For “Offensive Banner”

The actual song I chose to suggest that UEFA might look at is a bit of a guess. But to think that we stop singing the word 19th Century Terrorist or FTP, etc and all this goes away is wishful thinking.
In Scotland our mere existence is enough to send most media and clubs in to meltdown. UEFA's list of banned songs and banners isn't going to get any smaller.
I'm not suggesting that we do nothing, I'm merely asking at what point would fans say enough is enough, as in it becomes a witch hunt against our club.
From some of the replies it appears that if the money is big enough we'll ban anything or anyone.

This argument has been made on FF for more than 15 years.

The phrases focused on then were FTP and 19th Century Terrorist. TFIOWDYGH was then outlawed but that’s it.

No other words or songs have been targeted.


We really have to get away from this silly obsession over songs (most of which have now been corrupted anyway).
 
"Thank %^*& you weren't on the bus sooking the fun out of it."
Sorry for picking on your post to reply to but it just happened to be the most recent example of what is wrong with our support and the way we think is acceptable to behave.
If you think that the only pleasure you get from supporting Rangers is to display banners and sing about hating 19th Century Terrorists and ranting bigotry rather than supporting the team...KNOWING that your behaviour will get the club you profess to love into huge bother and tarnishes our good name worldwide says more about you that you'd like to believe!
I've got my opinions on all things catholic and celtic but I'd never dream of making them public and particularly if I thought it would get the club I love into trouble.
It's time for some of our support to grow up and decide what's more important to them...supporting and upholding the good name of Rangers or selfishly acting like morons that don't know how to behave in a civilised society!
This. All day.
 
Simply put, Uefa's baw Uefa's rules whether we like it or not. Songbook at Ibrox has gradually changed & it'll continue to change as time goes on. The use of certain words arent allowed in certain contexts. We all know this and already we have fans within our support encouraging change.
Not sure we could claim a witch hunt if we keep breaking the rules.
Yes, it's UEFA's tournament and yes, they make the rules. But it all seems pretty arbitrary what is regarded as offensive and what's not. The offensive list will only grow and one day it will stretch to things we today think normal.
I think it is a witch hunt when we are held to a different standard. Looking across the city it seems anything goes and they get a tap on the wrist. I have never seen banners at Ibrox like the ones they had vs Lazio. The double standards of FARE are well documented. I think it also holds up that there is absolute panic on this forum when the bad songs are sung in Europe. The Tims just seem to have a different attitude, like they think they'll get away with it. Again.
Just to add, I am for stopping all the nonsense but I think they will eventually find something else to add to the list and it will all begin again.
 
This argument has been made on FF for more than 15 years.

The phrases focused on then were FTP and 19th Century Terrorist. TFIOWDYGH was then outlawed but that’s it.

No other words or songs have been targeted.


We really have to get away from this silly obsession over songs (most of which have now been corrupted anyway).
It's true that nothing else has been targeted but that will change.
Like you said, first there two "offensive" phrases, then they found something else.
I hope it all stops. For the past few months it seemed it had but the press and FARE will always look for the worst. Even if it's literally one or two people they will push their narrative.
It's my belief that when the current problem is solved they will move on to something else they regard as equally terrible. What then?
 
So Rangers are now banning people for a flag that was displayed outside the stadium

Worrying turn of events for everyone I think.

Very dangerous path to go down
Again I’ll ask the question no one wants to answer where the feck do you think this banner was going to end up other than the stadium or perhaps they left it at the airport or the pub or even dropped it off at the place the might have been staying or left it on the supporters bus they may have been travelling on, answers on a postcard.
 
Are you seriously suggesting that that the decent, law-abiding, actual Rangers fans should defend those moronic pieces of shite?

"fellow Rangers fans" - I'm happy to say that I have %^*& all in common with those arsewipes.
I really wish people would stop the “fellow Rangers fans” pish. I have family members why support Rangers and I can’t stand. I have nothing in common with fuds on the internet who say they support Rangers.
 
Right now the word 19th Century Terrorist has been considered offensive, so that can't be mentioned.
Educate yourself ffs, the word 19th Century Terrorist isn't considered offensive and never has been, It's all to do with context in how it's used, add a sweary word after it and it will see the cops arrest you. The problem is those in the media,politics and the unwashed themselves have put their own twist on it to brainwash people into thinking it means catholics, 19th Century Terrorists doesn't mean catholics and they know it doesn't.
 
I think UEFA will close the ground eventfully. For any trumped charge they can find. It won't be fault of our bams even though they will get blamed but the malicious intent of UEFA/FARE. You could close every teams stadium if you really wanted to and you nit picked any small bad behaviour for years. We're being asked to be 100 percent squeaky clean when i don't know any team who's like that..Not Liverpool not the bheasts not barca or Real. The intent of UEFA/FARE is the real baddie here not the euro neds.

At the point the ground gets closed I think the board will go after everything and you'll see true colours of likes of Robertson. This is the board that wanted to hire Tony docherty as assistant manager. Don't tell me they only want to cut out any staunchess because of Uefa ground closure threats. Robertson has a St Johnstone Mentality. The rough and ready nature of our support at times is beyond him. Why can't all we just settle down and eat cucumber sandwiches ect
 
Maybe it would be easier for the board to defend the support if a section of the fan base stopped behaving like morons.

There is no defence of this banner, or the singing of add ons. Or jumping on the roof of the disabled section.

The fact is that Kilmarnock F.C. have a legal requirement to keep people safe at Rugby Park yet they have an unsafe disabled shelter. Yes, no one should jump on it but the fact is it is foreseeable situation for which they have responsibility.......not Rangers.

Banning supporters for life from Ibrox doesn’t prevent supporters (any club) from jumping on the disabled shelter at Rugby Park in future.
 
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Here’s an interesting hypothetical question for someone to answer.

Imagine that banner was taken abroad and hung up in a bar the night before.

Now imagine some local toerag ultras has pinched the flag.

So it appears in the stadium upside down the day of the game, would Rangers get reported for the banner or the home team?
 
Again I’ll ask the question no one wants to answer where the feck do you think this banner was going to end up other than the stadium or perhaps they left it at the airport or the pub or even dropped it off at the place the might have been staying or left it on the supporters bus they may have been travelling on, answers on a postcard.
So you want to go down the route of banning people in what they might do?

Where does it stop? Do we start banning people because they sing songs on buses?
 
They haven't been banned yet and rightly so,
Lyrics from a song our full stadium used to sing up until a few months ago? The banner wasn’t even in the stadium last week. Calm down.

Exactly, I get the feeling that certain posters on here including an admin would like us to get a banner apologising to our friends in Green across the city as after all its 2019
 
Yes, it's UEFA's tournament and yes, they make the rules. But it all seems pretty arbitrary what is regarded as offensive and what's not. The offensive list will only grow and one day it will stretch to things we today think normal.
I think it is a witch hunt when we are held to a different standard. Looking across the city it seems anything goes and they get a tap on the wrist. I have never seen banners at Ibrox like the ones they had vs Lazio. The double standards of FARE are well documented. I think it also holds up that there is absolute panic on this forum when the bad songs are sung in Europe. The Tims just seem to have a different attitude, like they think they'll get away with it. Again.
Just to add, I am for stopping all the nonsense but I think they will eventually find something else to add to the list and it will all begin again.
As ive said, things change. A few years ago we could sing or say certain things, now we dont. This isnt just about football, its about how people just (mostly) dont accept the old ways. A lot of people just dont want to be associated with the ftp stuff and just want to support the club. Lets be really honest and admit we dont need to do it. We have plenty of songs that are just about Rangers that wont land us with fines or bans.
 
It's true that nothing else has been targeted but that will change.
Like you said, first there two "offensive" phrases, then they found something else.
I hope it all stops. For the past few months it seemed it had but the press and FARE will always look for the worst. Even if it's literally one or two people they will push their narrative.
It's my belief that when the current problem is solved they will move on to something else they regard as equally terrible. What then?

Rangers’ enemies would like nothing more than for FTP and 19th Century Terrorist to continue being chanted.

That is a surefire way of marginalising the club permanently.

What they would hate is a song-book that celebrated the club and its players first and foremost.

A large proportion of our support doesn’t know the correct words to the club’s anthem - arguably one of the two most famous football songs ever.


What Rangers’ enemies would hate is a vastly more articulate and clued-up support that would outmanoeuvre them at a political level.
 
Rangers’ enemies would like nothing more than for FTP and 19th Century Terrorist to continue being chanted.

That is a surefire way of marginalising the club permanently.

What they would hate is a song-book that celebrated the club and its players first and foremost.

A large proportion of our support doesn’t know the correct words to the club’s anthem - arguably one of the two most famous football songs ever.


What Rangers’ enemies would hate is a vastly more articulate and clued-up support that would outmanoeuvre them at a political level.
This in spades.

That lot are delighted when they see these banners and hear the chants. Our fans are literally doing their job for them.

We should have wisened up to this in 2005.
 
Educate yourself ffs, the word 19th Century Terrorist isn't considered offensive and never has been, It's all to do with context in how it's used, add a sweary word after it and it will see the cops arrest you. The problem is those in the media,politics and the unwashed themselves have put their own twist on it to brainwash people into thinking it means catholics, 19th Century Terrorists doesn't mean catholics and they know it doesn't.
It fits their ambulance chasing lifestyle. Genuinely can't believe the amount of people especially on this forum who don't know anything about it. Misconstrued and warped into an "offensive" word to fit a narrative.
 
This in spades.

That lot are delighted when they see these banners and hear the chants. Our fans are literally doing their job for them.

We should have wisened up to this in 2005.

There are two interconnected problems:

A) The own goals scored by our support

B) The unwillingness of the board and potential allies in politics to fight on the club’s behalf.

Few politicians want to wade in when they run the risk of being portrayed as siding with ‘bigots’.

Just look at the wasted opportunities over the past few years to redress the balance:

- the recent report showing that 30-40% of pupils at RC schools had strong sectarian attitudes

- state and local government aid being syphoned towards Celtic while Rangers have been denied a fanzone

- the collapsed effigies case

- a government survey showing that the public believed ‘hun’ was at least as offensive as ‘19th Century Terrorist’


The only way out is a two-pronged approach where the club takes action against supporters who let it down but is also prepared to speak out very forcefully on issues where we are being attacked at a political level.
 
UEFA can and will act on anything that happens within the stadium footprint, that’s why Roma were sanctioned and Lazio weren’t. I’m not sure why people struggle to grasp that.
It’s friggin inconsistent, that’s why, we’ve had opposition fans causing trouble up the PRW and nothings happened to them, how far does the “stadium footprint” stretch?
 
There are two interconnected problems:

A) The own goals scored by our support

B) The unwillingness of the board and potential allies in politics to fight on the club’s behalf.

Few politicians want to wade in when they run the risk of being portrayed as siding with ‘bigots’.

Just look at the wasted opportunities over the past few years to redress the balance:

- the recent report showing that 30-40% of pupils at RC schools had strong sectarian attitudes

- state and local government aid being syphoned towards Celtic while Rangers have been denied a fanzone

- the collapsed effigies case

- a government survey showing that the public believed ‘hun’ was at least as offensive as ‘19th Century Terrorist’


The only way out is a two-pronged approach where the club takes action against supporters who let it down but is also prepared to speak out very forcefully on issues where we are being attacked at a political level.
I think we need another tier, Deedle, the club needs to find a way of engaging with with the fans and being seen to be doing everything it can to manage and prevent potential issues. Stick and carrot.
 
Here’s an interesting hypothetical question for someone to answer.

Imagine that banner was taken abroad and hung up in a bar the night before.

Now imagine some local toerag ultras has pinched the flag.

So it appears in the stadium upside down the day of the game, would Rangers get reported for the banner or the home team?
And then a coo flew by and waved it at Celtic Park?
 
It’s friggin inconsistent, that’s why, we’ve had opposition fans causing trouble up the PRW and nothings happened to them, how far does the “stadium footprint” stretch?

You quoted an incident with Lazio fans, that never happened anywhere near the stadium.
 
It’s friggin inconsistent, that’s why, we’ve had opposition fans causing trouble up the PRW and nothings happened to them, how far does the “stadium footprint” stretch?

Land legally owned by or leased to Rangers or pubic body owned land used to facilitate supporters (i.e. Edmunson dr), I would imagine.
 
Pretty sure they will stand attend every match.
If that's supposed to say still, I don't think the club will care all that much.

Is it a harsh punishment? Probably.

But the flag has brought the club into disrepute.
It's causing us problems.
Fan behaviour is costing money.
It belittles the everyone anyone campaign.

They need to be seen to be doing something.
If these guys want to pay again for tickets fair play, hopefully they'll be better behaved about it.

I'm not taking the moral high ground either, I was in Dam Square singing songs and had I been next to the flag might well have wanted a drunken photo.
 
Well surely to fk you know what happened??
Why ask the question in the first place??
Okay I’ll try again,

the We Hate Celtic/19th Century Terrorist Bastards banner is taken to a foreign country and hung outside a pub the night before a European game.

whilst the guys are getting pissed and having a sing song some local fans steal the flag.

next night at the game it’s hung as a ultra thing saying we stole your flag blah blah blah

UEFA would punish Rangers if it was flown in the away end so I’m asking would they punish the hypothetical home team for flying it?
 
There are two interconnected problems:

A) The own goals scored by our support

B) The unwillingness of the board and potential allies in politics to fight on the club’s behalf.

Few politicians want to wade in when they run the risk of being portrayed as siding with ‘bigots’.

Just look at the wasted opportunities over the past few years to redress the balance:

- the recent report showing that 30-40% of pupils at RC schools had strong sectarian attitudes

- state and local government aid being syphoned towards Celtic while Rangers have been denied a fanzone

- the collapsed effigies case

- a government survey showing that the public believed ‘hun’ was at least as offensive as ‘19th Century Terrorist’


The only way out is a two-pronged approach where the club takes action against supporters who let it down but is also prepared to speak out very forcefully on issues where we are being attacked at a political level.
Absolutely on the mark and I have said so for a while. While we have Rangers fans asking, rightly, what is being done to look after their interests, it will always be an uphill battle in stopping the things we want our own to stop. People can call it whataboutery if they like, but the reality is that people will not stop while they themselves are seen as fair game.

A forum for the support to tell the club what it would like to happen, coupled with the board telling the fans what it will take to make it happen would seem like a no-brainer; Getting people to stop placing the club at risk from UEFA by offering them something tangible in return instead of the usual approach which has had some success, but needs to be seen through.
 
Okay I’ll try again,

the We Hate Celtic/19th Century Terrorist Bastards banner is taken to a foreign country and hung outside a pub the night before a European game.

whilst the guys are getting pissed and having a sing song some local fans steal the flag.

next night at the game it’s hung as a ultra thing saying we stole your flag blah blah blah

UEFA would punish Rangers if it was flown in the away end so I’m asking would they punish the hypothetical home team for flying it?
But you must know the answer to that as you clearly state that it has happened "a few times in the last 2 seasons"
So were the home team punished on these "few occasions?"
 
But you must know the answer to that as you clearly state that it has happened "a few times in the last 2 seasons"
So were the home team punished on these "few occasions?"
You understand the meaning of the word hypothetical yes?

The whole thread has been about the offensive flag not a normal RSC flag.
 
Land legally owned by or leased to Rangers or pubic body owned land used to facilitate supporters (i.e. Edmunson dr), I would imagine.

Bit early to be naming the street outside the stadium after our George.
 
Absolutely on the mark and I have said so for a while. While we have Rangers fans asking, rightly, what is being done to look after their interests, it will always be an uphill battle in stopping the things we want our own to stop. People can call it whataboutery if they like, but the reality is that people will not stop while they themselves are seen as fair game.

A forum for the support to tell the club what it would like to happen, coupled with the board telling the fans what it will take to make it happen would seem like a no-brainer; Getting people to stop placing the club at risk from UEFA by offering them something tangible in return instead of the usual approach which has had some success, but needs to be seen through.

I believe that's part of the game our enemies in the media, government etc. are playing. They fuel our defiance or siege mentality and in return they accept the gift that keeps on giving. We need to be clever but too many just don't see the bigger picture.
 
A flag like that, attracting the prominent media presence that it did, damages the Rangers brand.

The Club promotes an “Everyone, anyone” ethos. Such a flag is obviously not consistent with that approach
 
In my opinion only the vast majority of the fans can put an end to the sectarian singing and banners etc etc.

We have to start self policing, and if all else fails, report the offenders to the stewards.

We are on the brink of having a stadium closure, and the brain dead couldn't care less.
 
Remember when we got sections of the ground closed for the Legia Warsaw match?
3,000 tickets unsold so probably in the region of 120k the club missed out on.

Remember how that ban was a direct result of singing "we hate Celtic, 19th Century Terrorist Bastards" during the St Joseph's match?

Remember how we then got pulled up over singing at the game in Denmark and we had to refuse tickets for the Young Boys game AND the club had to close 3,000 seats again for the Feyenoord home game?

Right, so what I was thinking we could do is put that exact lyric on a banner and take it with us to the away game at Feyenoord.

Even better, lets make sure we are photographed with the banner so that the media will have a good picture to run with while they smear the club.

We're just trying to support our team lads. Honest. At a time when branding is so important, and when good PR is so important, and when taking in as much money as possible it so important, let's totally embarrass the club we supposedly support.
 
You understand the meaning of the word hypothetical yes?

The whole thread has been about the offensive flag not a normal RSC flag.
This is becoming surreal.

Initially you posed a hypothetical question which I suggested was highly unlikely to actually happen....fair enough.
You then replied "Except that it HAS HAPPENED a few times with Rangers flags the last 2 seasons "
So that is not hypothetical. So what happened on those "few times?"
 
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Some in our support seem intent on damaging Rangers better than any enemy could wish to.

At what point does the message finally hit home?

A full stadium closure?

Our manager walking away?

For some, I don’t think even this would change their attitude. Which is fucking depressing.

The message will never hit home.

In the event of catastrophic consequences such as stadium closure, manager leaving or expulsion from the tournament these people will move on to "Lawwell is pulling the strings at UEFA" or blame Rangers for not sticking up for the fans or some other rationalization.

UEFA: Don't sing these songs and don't use chants with "19th Century Terrorist bastards/scum" etc don't shout FTP at matches and definitely don't bring banners with similar. We really mean it. Please see previous punishments to see how much we really mean it. We will escalate the punishments.

Rangers: Yes, please stop doing this as it will harm the club. The punishments harm the club financially. The whole situation damages the clubs reputation. UEFA are serious. The rules are set please stop.

Rangers "supporters": We hate Celtic, 19th Century Terrorist Bastards! Hahahaha. What a laugh. Check out this banner too! What a hoot. Wait, what? Stadium closure? LAWWEEEEEEELLL!!! He's just trying to get UEFA to unsettle us for the tims to win the league.

It's tragic that a real anxiety surrounds the aftermath of every good result we have in Europe because all the good stuff can be undone by a couple of idiots and some of those idiots just can't help themselves.
 
We have to get our own house in order before asking any politician to put his/her head above the parapet. The club board have done nothing about the flares at Feyenoord, why have they not banned those responsible?
 
Some in our support seem intent on damaging Rangers better than any enemy could wish to.

At what point does the message finally hit home?

A full stadium closure?

Our manager walking away?

For some, I don’t think even this would change their attitude. Which is fucking depressing.

Your comments are oh so true, however an area that will only bring anger, would be to call them out. Self enforcement of our fans is the only way ahead. One area that definitely bugs me is that one side bunch of Barristers FAIR/Nil by Mouth, both of which only come down on the side of Scum.
 
This is becoming surreal.

Initially you posed a hypothetical question which I suggested was highly unlikely to actually happen....fair enough.
You then replied "Except that it HAS HAPPENED a few times with Rangers flags the last 2 seasons "
So that is not hypothetical. So what happened on those "few times?"
I’m not explaining it again, if you can’t follow it then it doesn’t matter, I’ll wait until an adult replies.
 
Yea, because there's a plethora (look it up) of replies.


Our flags in general have been stolen when we have been playing away but not ones with THAT wording.

So based on that, what do you think would happen if FARE/UEFA saw it and reported it? Who would be punished the home or away team?
 
Our flags in general have been stolen when we have been playing away but not ones with THAT wording.

So based on that, what do you think would happen if FARE/UEFA saw it and reported it? Who would be punished the home or away team?
I would imagine if it was amongst the home fans, it could hardly be the away fans who got punished. Unless of course they used pictures on social media to link attention seeking Rangers fans to the flag.
However as this has never happened it can only be conjecture.
 
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