The Dilemma facing Pedro versus them....

Coza

Well-Known Member
Watched a couple of their games this year and one thing that is absolutely noticeable in a matter of minutes is how open/exposed they are at the back.

Yes their front 5 for Scotland standards is decent and likely to bag lots of goals but their defence if properly attacked is more than likely to ship a few goals.

So does Pedro set up to contain the front players like Sinclair and Roberts with a look to play them on the break with Candieas, Windass and Morelos offering some pace on the counter. Or does he roll the dice, play attacking football and accept we might let one or two goals in in the hope we make and take chances at the other end?

I think the key to winning at Ibrox will be finding the right balance of both scenarios. An early goal would help a lot but part of me wonders how they would react to a tighter game against us where they can't Swan around like the Harlem globe trotters - much harder game to play if your not a few goals up.
 
Crossed balls they are all over the shop so we put any sort of quality in the box we will hurt them.
 
We have players who can hurt them now. They haven't really faced that since things went tits up. We also have decent defenders who can stop making them look like galacticos. It will be a much more competitive match up this year.
 
It's important we don't sit off them and let them dictate the game. I hope Pedro has learned that from the last two games.

It's also important that we don't allow ourselves to be outnumbered in midfield, so the 442 needs to be binned for this game. Midfield is where this game will be won and lost.

There's only one place in the team up for grabs imo with 3 players going for it - does Pena, Miller or Rossiter start in midfield alongside Dorrans and Jack?

The other 10 players (should) pick themselves.

I'd be inclined to go with Rossiter and Jack holding in front of our back 4 with Dorrans, Windass and Candy playing off Morelos and providing support to him when we win the ball back.
 
I think we should go all out in the first 10 minutes and hopefully get a goal then we have to keep it tight and hit them on the break.
 
Crossed balls they are all over the shop so we put any sort of quality in the box we will hurt them.

So what you are saying is drop Miller and get the big Mexican on and tell Candieas to cross more often than your weekly cross count in a pineapple. Sorted! :D
 
I like the idea of bringing in another midfielder, but part of me worries about our left/their right hand side of the pitch. Windass isn't good at tracking back and Wallace is too slow. I don't want to give them too much respect, but equally I don't want us playing into their hands by assigning someone to mark Roberts out of the game. The semi final last year only shows that hitting him early won't put him off. Think Tav and Candeias are well matched for their left. Set pieces will be key, most of their goals conceded domestically have came from them have they not. I really hope we %^*& them badly!
 
So what you are saying is drop Miller and get the big Mexican on and tell Candieas to cross more often than your weekly cross count in a pineapple. Sorted! :D

That's excatly what I'm saying get that ball it let the big man cause chaos and El Buffalo sniffing about for the knockdown also Peña getting in the box too.

Last time we played them we had zero width and played narrow their fullbacks had all the space in the world push them back and I'm telling you we can beat them that's the key imo.
 
You know you're about to get a lengthy discourse on Pedro's shortcomings and the fans lack of perception as soon as he calms down after reading this?

Let 'er rip, DG.o_O

ps, memo to the manager - we cannot start Nico
 
If Rossiter is going to play he needs minutes as he will still off the pace, Pena I question if he has the legs and workrate required. Miller cant play there. Who fits in along side Jack and Dorrans is Pedro's big question and the outcome may dictate our chances
 
If Rossiter is going to play he needs minutes as he will still off the pace, Pena I question if he has the legs and workrate required. Miller cant play there. Who fits in along side Jack and Dorrans is Pedro's big question and the outcome may dictate our chances

Agree with this. I'd be looking to get Rossiter a decent amount of game time in the next two games against Thistle to get his match sharpness up.

It would be crazy to fling Pena into this game when he hasn't started a match yet. Him and Miller would be good options to bring off the bench in the last 1/3 of the game to give us a goal threat and a different option.
 
You know you're about to get a lengthy discourse on Pedro's shortcomings and the fans lack of perception as soon as he calms down after reading this?

Let 'er rip, DG.o_O

Just recently (certainly on the new board) he wrote 4/5 paragraphs (must have had a busy with such a blunt reply) that I actually agreed with in whole. Found myself scrolling back up to triple check it was DG who posted it. :D
 
That's excatly what I'm saying get that ball it let the big man cause chaos and El Buffalo sniffing about for the knockdown also Peña getting in the box too.

Last time we played them we had zero width and played narrow their fullbacks had all the space in the world push them back and I'm telling you we can beat them that's the key imo.

That is indeed the way to beat them. Wallace, candieas, Windass and Tav will need to be on top of there game defensively as well to make this work.
 
If Rossiter is going to play he needs minutes as he will still off the pace, Pena I question if he has the legs and workrate required. Miller cant play there. Who fits in along side Jack and Dorrans is Pedro's big question and the outcome may dictate our chances

A bit of a curve ball perhaps, but Holt's work rate could be useful for 60 minutes, before replacing him with someone less industrious but more creative or more of a holding player depending on the state of the game.
 
I love the optimism guys but Pena cannot start against them. The guy looks like someone rebuilding his career/fitness. Throwing him into a game his own fans will scream at a mis placed pass is not an option.

Another 30 minutes versus thistle in league when up a couple of goals and a start in the cup are the immediate priorities for Pena. If he does well he might earn himself another 30 minutes against them again hopefully with us ahead.
 
For me I am worried about our full backs, I think they let far too many crosses in against average players. We cannot afford the same against them. If we defend well in these areas I think we stand a chance
 
There is a serious temptation to start Rossiter alongside Jack to give us a little more protection.

This would allow Tav and Wallace to get forward, as along with Windass and Candieas, they will supply the ammo for Morelos to exploit their weak central defence.

This would mean Kenny starting from the bench.

I've no doubt he'll still have a part to play later in the game.
 
I think you will see Pena start in place of Miller the next two thistle games to give him the game time needed , so what we saw on Saturday after the two subs will be the team for the the next 3 game IMO
 
There is a serious temptation to start Rossiter alongside Jack to give us a little more protection.

This would allow Tav and Wallace to get forward, as along with Windass and Candieas, they will supply the ammo for Morelos to exploit their weak central defence.

This would mean Kenny starting from the bench.

I've no doubt he'll still have a part to play later in the game.

I'd fancy Miller to nick us a goal if he came on with fresh legs in the last 20-30 mins when the game has opened up. Morelos is banging them in but if I could pick one player for a chance to fall to against them next weekend I'd still plump for Miller to keep his composure and bury it.
 
I think you will see Pena start in place of Miller the next two thistle games to give him the game time needed , so what we saw on Saturday after the two subs will be the team for the the next 3 game IMO

Giving him two games warm up Would be the only way we could play Pena in the old firm game but I don't see it. He is being gradually introduced and this would be a drastic change of tact from Pedro. More 30 minute cameos to come and hopefully more goals to the point he has to start!
 
This is where the Gaffer earns his not insignificant money.

Is Rossiter physically - not to mention technically or mentally - able to handle such an occasion?

The same applies to Pena.

Their midfield is powerful and scores goals; we need to not allow them to dictate.

NK cannot start but I fancy Miller will play as he is our only attacker or midfielder to have scored a goal v the Bheasts.
 
These next 2 games against Partick will give us a pretty clear idea of how we are going to line up. If Rossiter, Pena or Herrera start on Friday then I imagine we'll see them starting against the bheggars.
 
This is where the Gaffer earns his not insignificant money.

Is Rossiter physically - not to mention technically or mentally - able to handle such an occasion?

The same applies to Pena.

Their midfield is powerful and scores goals; we need to not allow them to dictate.

NK cannot start but I fancy Miller will play as he is our only attacker or midfielder to have scored a goal v the Bheasts.

It will be difficult to leave someone of Miller's experience and pedigree in this fixture out but I'd be inclined to play a more conventional midfielder in Rossiter to protect the back 4. The area in front of our defence is crucial because we need to be alert in there and make sure someone is tracking Armstrong when he makes those brilliant 3rd man runs that he does, it's so difficult to defend against but if we have Rossiter and Jack there it gives us a little more protection.

Release Dorrans higher up the park and when we do break on them, his technical and passing ability will be important in terms of keeping the ball for us or sliding people in.
 
Giving him two games warm up Would be the only way we could play Pena in the old firm game but I don't see it. He is being gradually introduced and this would be a drastic change of tact from Pedro. More 30 minute cameos to come and hopefully more goals to the point he has to start!



I agree.

We can't possibly play Pena against Thistle just to get him fit for the mentally challengeds game.

Those 2 Thistle matches are MUST win games and we need to play our strongest teams, whoever that may be.
 
Having watched snippets of their last two or three matches what stood out for me is that they close down very quickly all over the pitch, front to back and have no problem doubleing up to regain possession. Our passing and retention needs to be better.
 
It will be difficult to leave someone of Miller's experience and pedigree in this fixture out but I'd be inclined to play a more conventional midfielder in Rossiter to protect the back 4. The area in front of our defence is crucial because we need to be alert in there and make sure someone is tracking Armstrong when he makes those brilliant 3rd man runs that he does, it's so difficult to defend against but if we have Rossiter and Jack there it gives us a little more protection.

Release Dorrans higher up the park and when we do break on them, his technical and passing ability will be important in terms of keeping the ball for us or sliding people in.

I agree with all you say, I suspect Miller may have been 'kept sweet' for this game. We need his experience on the pitch initially.
 
Candeias and Ryan Jack will be our two most important players on the day, Pena could also cause a lot of damage with his positioning and late runs.

I'd like to see Morelos play off Herrera but at the same time I think playing Rossiter as an extra man in midfield would be wise. Lots of tough decisions to make.
 
Was flicking between Chelsea and their game last night, very time I flicked over noticed straight away that PSG were pressing them hard in their own half, more often than not it ended with a punt up that park and PSG ultimately regaining possession to drive forward.

Don't let them play from the back and press on them straight away, the amount of space the PSG winger on the the right was getting was unbelievable, this would be perfect for Candeias to whip in the crosses.
 
It's important we don't sit off them and let them dictate the game. I hope Pedro has learned that from the last two games.

It's also important that we don't allow ourselves to be outnumbered in midfield, so the 442 needs to be binned for this game. Midfield is where this game will be won and lost.

There's only one place in the team up for grabs imo with 3 players going for it - does Pena, Miller or Rossiter start in midfield alongside Dorrans and Jack?

The other 10 players (should) pick themselves.

I'd be inclined to go with Rossiter and Jack holding in front of our back 4 with Dorrans, Windass and Candy playing off Morelos and providing support to him when we win the ball back.
Interesting that you see Windass in the "starting 11"
I agree about the other 9 mind you.

I'd personally love to see Pena become a certain "starter" it's unclear to me if it's just a fitness issue with him or more
 
It's a tough one, Miller's record v's them speaks for itself however he slows us down and is not the player he was. I would replace niko and Miller with rossiter and windass. We need to find a good balance between exposing their backline and not leaving ourselves too open at the back with their attacking pace.
 
I am not by any means suggesting we have players like Neymar and Mbappe on the wings.

However , It was shown last night that Sinclair & Roberts hate tracking back and will leave Tierney & Ralston exposed at times. So many times last night Alves and mbappe were running into Celtic's half with Sinclair trailing behind and it was the same on the other wing with Kurzawa and Neymar having all the joy until they took the foot off the gas.

I am more confident going into this OF than I was for any last season due to the fact we have 2 good CB's and are more solid in the middle. We must go with pace and have no passengers. We have to play with width and attack on the overlap in the wide areas and get balls in. That is their weakness. Candeias and Windass have to start they are quick and will cause problems , No disrespect to niko but he should be nowhere near the first 11 and Pena well this kind of game will be too early for him to start. Miller is always a big game player and for that reason he has to get the nod aswell , I would rather Miller than Herrera as it stands.. If Miller was dropped then maybe Pena sitting behind Morelas but thats the only maybe change I would make.

Wes
Tav Bruno Cardoso Wallace
Jack
Candeias Dorrans Windass
Miller Morelas
 
PSG showed us exactly what to do against their wide players last night.
Every time they got the ball the PSG winger & wingback doubled up on the player.
We think of Neymar being a luxury player, but he put in some shift when they don't have the ball.
That's what I'd like to see us do.
Make sure windass is there to help Wallace and give them no room to escape; likewise with Tav & Candeias.
 
I said as much last season. They aren't great at the back, at all. There are two big differences.

1. We have two proper midfielders in Jack and Dorrans. Last year it was Holt and Halliday. No disrespect to either lad as they gave us their all, but it was a total mis-match with the Beggars midfield. You would like to think they won't get it all their own way thid time.

2. We are much more of a threat going forward. We now have guys, with really pace and a cracking delivery. That can hurt team. I'm fully expecting us to score.

What I will say, that despite us being a lot more solid, it worries me how much time and space we afford teams in and around our box. On the face of it, we won comfortably at the weekend. Think back to the chances Dundee missed at 1-0. We can't afford to be giving Thumbheid and Sinclair those sorts of chances.

In answer to op it's got to be about balance. Don't be scared of the fuckers and take it to them, but also accept that they are good going forward, so if we are attacking. Guys are also doing their job, and covering.
 
Wes

Tav
Alves
Cardoso
Wallace

Rossiter
Jack

Windass
Dorrans
Candeias

Morelos

(4-2-3-1)
That's probably the team I'd pick. This is the type of game that Dorrans was signed for. All our good play from midfield forward should be coming through him. Candeias and Windass absolutely must put in a power of work, doubling up with Tav and Wallace when not in possession and being in the right places to put in good deliveries for Freddy up front. Dorrans should be looking to shoot whenever the opportunity arises, inside or outside the box. Gordon is an experienced keeper but his career is on the way down now. Dorrans peppering his goal and Candeias and Windass putting in dangerous crosses from wide areas for Morelos to bulldoze toward could hurt them. Jack and JR just need to concentrate on winning the ball and feeding Dorrans through the middle and the wide men.
 
For me I am worried about our full backs, I think they let far too many crosses in against average players. We cannot afford the same against them. If we defend well in these areas I think we stand a chance
Totally agree. Wallace more so than Tav. Roberts running at Wallace is the stuff of nightmares. Both need to defend solidly first and foremost. There are times to get forward but not all the time. Our wide men need to work like Trojans to help out when we are on the back foot. It we can keep a good condensed shape and deny them the space to play, it's doable.
 
Key man for me against them will be Candeias. His willingness to get a ball in early will trouble their defence. He also helps Tavernier out massively by working back. If we have that same work ethic on the left then we will not be far away.
 
I'd be inclined to put DJ on the left wing and play Windass behind Morelos. Strengthens the left side defensively and keeps Windass' energy.

But then we really do need a more solid centre midfield. Dorrans/Jack have done very well but I think it needs a third body in there, if not a double pivot of Jack and Rossiter. Dorrans in the 10 in that scenario because you can't really drop him.

I fancy us for this, I really fucking do. Candeias in particular is going to rip them to pieces.
 
we need to be a little more pragmatic in midfield, so we may see two sitting.

But defensively, that lot are there to be attacked, and we must.
Early markers laid on the likes of Roberts and Sinclair will either injure them and put them out game, or see them brick it.

Lets's hope one or both of them pick up injuries prior to the game, they are their key men.
 
Totally agree. Wallace more so than Tav. Roberts running at Wallace is the stuff of nightmares. Both need to defend solidly first and foremost. There are times to get forward but not all the time. Our wide men need to work like Trojans to help out when we are on the back foot. It we can keep a good condensed shape and deny them the space to play, it's doable.


Mate Wallace has always played Roberts very well.

Rodgers was critical of Roberts not tracking Wallace's runs the last time he played against him.

The only time Roberts has had any joy against us was when young Beerman played.

I do totally agree with you regarding our wide men and their defensive duties however.

Candeias seems well aware of his, Windass I'm not so sure.
 
Something very important i have noticed.

Sinclair and Roberts always come back inside before shooting, how many goals has sinclair scored that are identical ? on the edge of the box then cuts inside and scores, he does it everytime.

We need to stop them from coming inside and show them to the outside, it drives me insane every week when defenders dont realise this.

If we can shut those 2 down we will have an excellent chance.
 
First of all, where's the evidence that the Manager won't start with Kranjcar?
Too much wishful thinking on this thread so far, it's clear the manager likes him even if we don't.

Secondly, if we're going to have any chance then Graham Dorrans needs to significantly improve what he's offered us so far. I've been disappointed TBH, but this is a big game and I hope he can step up and show what he's capable of.
 
I think he'll play the way he tried in last seasons semi final- soak up the pressure then counter attack. The difference this time we have players who can do that.

Rossiter, Jack and Dorrans have that extra bit of dig and ability in the middle.

Candeias, Windass and Morelos have the pace, strength and energy to put their defence under a lot of pressure.

Our centre backs are so much better than before and won't be soft touches either.

We may or may not win but they'll certainly know they've been in a game.
 
Only dilemma for me, is that we beat the bastards.
I'm totally convinced that if we beat them, they will wobble, as will Rodgers, the manks will start turning on them.
 
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