The Euros are better than the World Cup - Change My Mind

Papasmurf said:
4 of top 11 world teams are from out with europe. So the stats on those making to the semi's are what you would expect.

If you extend your fact search back to the last 10 tournaments, then 3 have been non european. Again, in line with the stats of the top nations of the world
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You are focusing on the wrong end of the quality scale

My opening post said I know there are non-European nations who are better than many European nations

I said that's what makes the world Cup great

We both agree on that!

But switch your attention to the OTHER side of the quality scale

Where the world cup invite many nations who are weak, low ranking and are taking the place of better European nations.

Focus on THAT part of the debate
 
The Euros do lack the surprisingly good minnows sometimes found at World Cups. Teams you know nothing about but who run around like fckin lunatics causing havoc for 90 minutes - Japan, South Korea(and North tbf) and Cameroon spring to mind.
 
Quality of both tournaments (group stage) has diminished due to the desire to be inclusive of all areas.

I would suggest that the WC, simply by the inclusion of the South Americans, is better quality in the later stages.

As for the suggestion that the Euros are harder to win that is clearly not backed by any relevant facts.

Since the Euros were introduced in 1960 the most successful team, Germany, has won both trophies 3 times.

France have been successful twice in both while Spain have found the Euros easier to win with 3 victories to 1 WC.

Only the Italians (2-1) and England (1-0) have been more successful at the WC than the Euros. Indeed there are 6 countries (Soviet Union, Czecheslovakia, Holland, Denmark, Greece and Portugal) who have managed to win the Euros but not the WC.

Which, I would suggest, indicates that the Euros are, in fact, easier to win.

World Cup, while allowing access to poorer nations in the group stage, has much better quality and competition in the latter stages and for me is, therefore, the better competition.
 
I actually don’t disagree with the OP, I think overall the quality at the Euros is better but the title of this thread should really have been “ The Euros are better than the World Cup - DON’T change my mind”
 
Aye because watching Macedonia/Scotland/Finland in the Euros was better than seeing South Korea go far in 2002, Ghana vs Uruguay in South Africa 2010 etc

What a load of absolute nonsense
 
BrooklynBlue said:
From 2026, the WC expands to 48 teams. It’ll be a test of endurance to get through such a long tournament.
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Only good thing about 2026 is Canada/USA hosting so could sort a holiday and travel about

The novelty of 48 teams will wear out after that tournament though I’ll presume
 
Euros too big now.....24 teams from 54 and only 8 elimianted after groups.

Should be short, sharp and elite.
 
Would you not be better to rename the thread?

You've given us a title that suggests you are open to being convinced the World Cup is better when it's clearly not the case.

Maybe call it "The Euros are better than the WC, Don't try telling me otherwise"?
 
Papasmurf said:
So, to make the euros better, you accept this would be achieved by adding in non European countries.

similar to a World Cup :D
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Read

My

Opening

Post

I have said that there are nations that are better than some European nations

And those nations being in the world Cup makes it great

However the world cup also lets nations who are far weaker than European nations into it, at the behest of stronger European nations

Man alive how do you not get that?
 
MrBearightside said:
Read

My

Opening

Post

I have said that there are nations that are better than some European nations

And those nations being in the world Cup makes it great

However the world cup also lets nations who are far weaker than European nations into it, at the behest of stronger European nations

Man alive how do you not get that?
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What strong European nations miss out on the World Cup? Netherlands recently. But that’s because they were shit
 
GazzaG said:
Would you not be better to rename the thread?

You've given us a title that suggests you are open to being convinced the World Cup is better when it's clearly not the case.

Maybe call it "The Euros are better than the WC, Don't try telling me otherwise"?
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Nobody has pointed out a reason why the world cup is better

Every point made that 'but brazil and Argentina are in the World Cup' is addressed in my opening post

I can think of 2 arguments that COULD change my mind, but nobody has made them yet
 
wsb&warmy said:
Surprised the thread was kept open after this post!
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Are you only happy to look at the strength added to the world cup by those 2 nations?

Brazil who last won it in 2002 and Argentina who last won it in 1986?

Not how it is diluted by a dozen other nations?
 
1BrianLaudrup said:
Didn't know about this until now. They're going to do 16 groups of 3 teams in the group stage, 2 qualify to make last 32. Possibly with no draws allowed. Sounds like overkill.

I've enjoyed the return of a 24 team tournament, the way the World Cup used to be, and the revival of third placed qualification. It keeps the groups interesting right up to the last round of games, which is often lacking in the 16 and 32 team tournaments. Was thinking it would be great to bring that back in the WC, either by returning to 24 or expanding to 48 (12 groups of 4, top 2 and 8 third placed qualifiers). But 48 for the World Cup starts to seem unwieldy, especially if the format they've chosen means only playing two group games.
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Sounds garbage. Thats why the Euros are better now.
The knock out stages end up with middle ranked teams playing for penalties.
 
MrBearightside said:
Italy last World Cup 2018

As mentioned in my opening post

Maybe one day you will read it
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You are citing one off instances. Italy could
Have been there. If they performed better.

of course they are better than a panama. But Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, Serbia, Poland all qualified and Italy didnt.

maybe it’s the European qualifications that are wrong?

but it still doesn’t take away from the point that the World Cup is better than the euros with the inclusion of the South American’s.

I’m confident that if you asked any player, they would choose the World Cup to win over the euros.

it’s like a choice between the Olympics and Europeans championships.
 
Papasmurf said:
You are citing one off instances. Italy could
Have been there. If they performed better.

of course they are better than a panama. But Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, Serbia, Poland all qualified and Italy didnt.

maybe it’s the European qualifications that are wrong?

but it still doesn’t take away from the point that the World Cup is better than the euros with the inclusion of the South American’s.

I’m confident that if you asked any player, they would choose the World Cup to win over the euros.

it’s like a choice between the Olympics and Europeans championships.
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You think a player would rather win the football Olympics than the football European championships???!!!

I'm joking.

You said "but Denmark, Iceland, Poland etc are there" ... those nations are all still better than Panama and many other world cup nations so I would still be frustrated if they were not there and nations like Panama were


A poster earlier made an argument based on the groups 'interest' him more at the World Cup

I am interested to see if that is expanded on

There are 2 arguments outside of 'quality' that could change my mind
 
This thread is pointless rubbish.

When the Euros are on we'll all watch them and love it.

2 years later, when the World Cup is on we'll all watch them and love it.

2 years later, when the Euros are on.....

.....repeat to fade.

Any point the OP is trying to make is largely irrelevant and so bound up in hypothesis and false equivalence that it is just not really worth worrying about.
 
Aww Skew said:
Aye because watching Macedonia/Scotland/Finland in the Euros was better than seeing South Korea go far in 2002, Ghana vs Uruguay in South Africa 2010 etc

What a load of absolute nonsense
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will take South Korea out of there because there was definitely a lot of dodgy about that one, keep them in so the people in one of the host countries keeps interest and buys more into the tournament

in their place we'll throw in Cameroon from the 1990 World Cup, a real underdog story which I think everybody enjoyed, almost beat England in the QF as well
 
Bristol_bnose3 said:
This thread is pointless rubbish.

When the Euros are on we'll all watch them and love it.

2 years later, when the World Cup is on we'll all watch them and love it.

2 years later, when the Euros are on.....

.....repeat to fade.

Any point the OP is trying to make is largely irrelevant and so bound up in hypothesis and false equivalence that it is just not really worth worrying about.
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So pointless

So rubbish

You contributed!

Also if I go on holiday to benidorm, then 2 years later to Vegas, then 2 years later to benidorm, then 2 years later to Vegas I will look forward to and enjoy each when they happen

But the quality of each is different and I prefer one over the other

I have said the world cup is great, I love it, but I prefer the Euros.
 
MrBearightside said:
So pointless

So rubbish

You contributed!

Also if I go on holiday to benidorm, then 2 years later to Vegas, then 2 years later to benidorm, then 2 years later to Vegas I will look forward to and enjoy each when they happen

But the quality of each is different and I prefer one over the other

I have said the world cup is great, I love it, but I prefer the Euros.
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The self aggrandisement of your thread title warranted a comment.

You prefer one, well done. Nobody needs to change your mind.
 
Bristol_bnose3 said:
The self aggrandisement of your thread title warranted a comment.

You prefer one, well done. Nobody needs to change your mind.
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And your continued contribution to a thread that is 'pointless' and 'rubbish' amuses me.

Have you never heard of the 'change my mind' style of conversation?

Where someone puts forward their thoughts and opinions and offers others the chance to 'change my mind'?

Its not self aggrandisement, its a style of debate / conversation

You are right, nobody 'needs' to change my mind.

Just like nobody 'needs' to use pretentious words but people do anyway, you know?
 
MrBearightside said:
And your continued contribution to a thread that is 'pointless' and 'rubbish' amuses me.

Have you never heard of the 'change my mind' style of conversation?

Where someone puts forward their thoughts and opinions and offers others the chance to 'change my mind'?

Its not self aggrandisement, its a style of debate / conversation

You are right, nobody 'needs' to change my mind.

Just like nobody 'needs' to use pretentious words but people do anyway, you know?
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B-D
 
MrBearightside said:
Are you only happy to look at the strength added to the world cup by those 2 nations?

Brazil who last won it in 2002 and Argentina who last won it in 1986?

Not how it is diluted by a dozen other nations?
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No.

Some of these other nations that 'dilute' the WC would probably wipe the floor with the likes of Wales, Denmark, Austria, Czech Republic etc - who by the way have all finished 2nd in their Euros group.

It's all about opinions, but for me, the World Cup is the best football tournament there is. The absolute pinnacle of football.
 
RodVegas said:
Our European football perspective has never recognised the club world cup. In South America its considered the holy grail.
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really? Didnt know that. I couldnt even tell you who competed in it this year (did it go ahead?)
 
Whilst the World Cup has been devalued in recent times it is good to still see the leading South American countries.
 
wsb&warmy said:
No.

Some of these other nations that 'dilute' the WC would probably wipe the floor with the likes of Wales, Denmark, Austria, Czech Republic etc - who by the way have all finished 2nd in their Euros group.

It's all about opinions, but for me, the World Cup is the best football tournament there is. The absolute pinnacle of football.
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Both the euros and world cup have diddy sides in them.

Thats why comparing the competition at the group stages and beyond is a little self defeating as the true competition lies in the knockout.

That said, its good to see the smaller african sides as an example play european sides. Cameroon vs England would be a lot more interesting for me compared to north macedonia vs England. As an example.
 
drumbaran said:
Whilst the World Cup has been devalued in recent times it is good to still see the leading South American countries.
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why has it been devalued?

Id argue that the Euros have been devalued by the new plan of passing it round different countries.

As I type that, I guess the world cup in terms of where has been played is wrong but I'm not sure it necessarily devalues it. Only a player could answer that I suppose.
 
Papasmurf said:
really? Didnt know that. I couldnt even tell you who competed in it this year (did it go ahead?)
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Yeah the South American’s get annoyed that all of the media attention is on European football

They see the Club World Cup as the only chance to scalp a European team and claim to be superior

No matter who wins the South America champions league that entire continent will back them when they play a European club

I could name a handful of South american clubs but not name 1 player for either team


But if someone who isn't interested in football hears about the Club World Cup you can understand why they'd assume its the peak of Club football

From what I understand FIFA are expanding it too, but honestly, it hold 0 interest in Europe

Often it gets in the way

South American’s though, can't wait for it every season
 
Euros for me now.
The African nations have been Poor in the last few tournaments.
Australia, USA and Mexico get a bye straight into it almost and outside Brazil, Argentina the South American nations arent that great either.
 
MrBearightside said:
Yeah the South American’s get annoyed that all of the media attention is on European football

They see the Club World Cup as the only chance to scalp a European team and claim to be superior

No matter who wins the South America champions league that entire continent will back them when they play a European club

I could name a handful of South american clubs but not name 1 player for either team


But if someone who isn't interested in football hears about the Club World Cup you can understand why they'd assume its the peak of Club football

From what I understand FIFA are expanding it too, but honestly, it hold 0 interest in Europe

Often it gets in the way

South American’s though, can't wait for it every season
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watch the european view change at a club level if money gets thrown at it.

Currently, win a trophy.

In the future. Win a trophy and £200m.

It will then become of interest. Sadly
 
The way I see it is :-
Being European- we get exposed ( even to a small extent ) to other European nations & have a fairly accurate idea of each nation's potential strengths & weaknesses

I have less knowledge, or experience of nations from other continents & that alone increases my interest - especially when they're from the more obscure locations

Then there's the incredible excellence of the South American teams - who've dominated at different times in history
Even when they're not at their best - they're pushing up the quality of all other opponents

Where I have problems is when an obviously poor quality side is able to qualify while other more talented sides miss out - that way it can be argued that the tournament doesn't constitute 'the best in the world '

The only way round that I can see - would be for further 'extra' knockout phases between teams from different continents after local qualifiers & before the final tournament itself

Although that might work - I'm not sure it would always have the desired affect

If we ended up with a World Cup made entirely of teams from Europe at it's start - I'd personally feel we were missing something -

I know some of the latter stages have often had European teams only - but part of the achievement was eliminating teams from all continents on the journey
 
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