The '19th Century Terrorist' irony not lost on me

TBB and 'Super Rangers' vanished for years (didn't stop FARE though) and no-one really minded, TBB was really rousing, and loud, but I hate 'no mean city' pish and the razor gangs, and so maybe it was best to say goodbye. Not singing about Billy Fullerton is probably not a bad thing.

However, ironically, our enemies across the city continued to pollute the atmosphere. Vile chants, banners, songs, and displays. Nothing was done. No punishment. 15 fines from UEFA.....yet nothing.

Our response? "Well it's died down, no-one cares now....clearly it's open season, sing what we want".

The sectarian / terrorist filth from them actually brought back the 'F word' in our support....only for us to find that people do care now, but only in certain circumstances.
A 200% it’s what they tried to do to us that has made us more hard line

Me for one just went along to games but since the ebt shite I became a 18 year old again with the song sheet they sing there filth at us
I find it hard not to respond I’ll be honest
I’m 58 and I have more hatred now than I did for past 30 years
 
This doesnt wash by the way. Black guys call each other ****** all the time, doesnt mean you can say it

Surely that just adds to the hypocrisy of it all. The word ****** is regarded as very derogatory. Can the same be said about 19th Century Terrorist? Is it really a derogatory word?
 
For the song 'Super Rangers' I thought we had changed '19th Century Terrorist' to 'Cheating' when they first had a go at our songs? For this one song I can see no reason how we can get into trouble by changing to 'Cheating' which I.M.O is more apt for Separate Entity fc.
 
About time someone punished took it to the highest court in the land to show the word 19th Century Terrorist is not sectarian.
We can do that all we like, but it matters not one tiny little iota. UEFA have decided it’s racist under their rules and “the highest court in the land” can have absolutely zero effect on that. It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it is reality.
 
I think we are largely missing the point. It's not about the words or the songs. And certainly not right and wrong.

The bigger picture is that they identified that as a weak spot. They then mobilised and built the machinery to use it against us. They got people into FARE. Into the press. Used NBM when they had too. Got the ear of UEFA. Manipulated meanings and definitions and public perceptions. And all to the point of closing stands in our stadium.

Currently they have people in the Scottish government and the SFA/SPFL (many under the employ and banner of other clubs). They have been pushing for strict liability in Scotland and would've had it by now if they hadn't messed up the OBFA.

The war is in the press and Holyrood and the SFA. Not over changing words. Until we start building bridgeheads and influence is these places then we can expect more attacks and more news like yesterday.

We have done nothing against them despite the biggest opportunity in their history currently existing to do damage to them. With credit and respect to Adam Tomkins and co asking for an enquiry is good and right, but as a cultural force we should be judge, jury and executioner on them. Ruthless. Unapologetic. Because that's how they operate. We are a million miles away from that and the opportunity will pass.
 
The groundwork has already been done - it's been offending the victims apparently
I m a victim of pedophile abuse and it does not offend me calling them out. These who are saying it is offensive to call a pedphile for what he/she is, should be ashamed of themselves.
 
We are on the verge of the club getting back to where we should be at the top of the tree in Scotland. We should also be able to look back at this time as when we matured as a support and eliminated negativity and 'anti' this or that from our songs. 'Pro' songs only without any add ons. Do that and, in time, we will gather more fans to the Rangers family. I have sung the songs and words in the past that now do damage to our club and prevent our fellow supporters from cheering on the club. It ends now. Supporters clubs also need to have zero tolerance on this. Bad habits away from the ground can carry through to the ground when the adrenaline is flowing. We can argue the toss till the cows come home about the word '19th Century Terrorist'. We all understand the hypocrisy (and it would be interesting to see what would happen if that infamous banner with that word on it was stolen and paraded at a match against them by another team's fans as a trophy) but it matters not a jot to UEFA. One of the greatest feelings ever after a goal for me, even better than TBB, is a long and vociferous chant of "We are the People". Pure, simple, effective and gets to the opposition fans because there is bugger all they can complain about. We are, indeed, The People. Let's prove it on this topic and let the shame be on other fans in their choruses of hate.
 
And the msm will still call it a banned song

We tell the media that TBB is dead, we tell UEFA that TBB is dead .
We also tell them that we have a new song called TRB and show them that the lyrics are nothing to do with TBB
 
We tell the media that TBB is dead, we tell UEFA that TBB is dead .
We also tell them that we have a new song called TRB and show them that the lyrics are nothing to do with TBB
We can tell UEFA whatever we like. They banned us using the tune. Not just a word, not even all the words, they told us we couldn’t use the tune.

It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s reality. Can we please stop trying to find a way around it, acknowledge it’s done and look forward.
 
I had thought about and started to formulate a plan in place to see if we could get TBB back. In an acceptable form.

But sitting there on a match day it became clear that if we were allowed to sing a sanitised version, many wouldn’t and it would be near impossible to take off the way it would need to.

We are now past the point and a ban of certain words, phrases and songs is the only way to stop it

You can't really pick out words clearly when thousands of people are singing them.

Therefore we could 'get away with it' even if lots of fans sing the old word with the club/fans groups sticking to the line that we now sing a new version.
 
We can tell UEFA whatever we like. They banned us using the tune. Not just a word, not even all the words, they told us we couldn’t use the tune.

It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s reality. Can we please stop trying to find a way around it, acknowledge it’s done and look forward.

Why didn't they ban us for the Edu song then?

People seem determined to give this up. Clubs all over Britain use the same tune FFS.

If we changed the word we wouldn't be punished.
 
Also it’s now seen as acceptable to be a part of a terrorist organization than sing about defeating a terrorist organisation.

IMO it needs challanged I 100% dont class this as sectarian or racist more an anti terrorist chant. Maybe it shouldnt be sung at a football match but that still doesnt make it racist.

Could we take it to the courts?
 
Punish it all or not at all. UEFA are getting themselves into territory they know nothing about - there are no rational solutions to be gained from them.

Hence why their original decision post Villarreal was, 'It is a scottish problem, let them deal with it.'

The appeal and all the usual suspects piling in to ensure we were done set this train in motion (but only for us in Scotland).
 
I don't believe the tune is banned. That's just fucking ridiculous
Don't believe it all you like, that’s why we are where we got to yesterday.

UEFA issued the directive very clearly to the club. The fans groups and the Club issued a statement acknowledging it, including the instruction:
to make a public address announcement at every official
fixture, be it international or domestic, stating that any sectarian
chanting and any form of 'Billy Boys' songs is strictly prohibited.'


“...any form...” included the tune.

We can bleat all we like about other clubs using the tune, but we need to accept reality.
 
Why didn't they ban us for the Edu song then?

People seem determined to give this up. Clubs all over Britain use the same tune FFS.

If we changed the word we wouldn't be punished.
Wrong. See my post above.

It’s crazy, it’s unfair and it’s ludicrous. But it’s fact.
 
Hence why their original decision post Villarreal was, 'It is a scottish problem, let them deal with it.'

The appeal and all the usual suspects piling in to ensure we were done set this train in motion (but only for us in Scotland).
Exactly. They mobilised and lobbied for this. And we didn’t mobilise and lobby to protect ourselves.

We are where we are, we can’t win a battle that’s already lost. But we damn well should get organised to win the ones ahead.
 
The time for dictionary definitions is well gone. For a significant number of people in the West of Scotland the term 19th Century Terrorist is synonymous with Catholic. That's the reality and the reason why UEFA are on our case.
The Billy Boys is now an anachronism and an embarrasment. Let's consign it once and for all to the dustbin of history.
 
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We should not be mentioning them in any of our songs as imo, they should be ignored and given no acknowledgement at all.
 
I think if we changed the F word to Paedo it works and I think might even wind the mentally challengeds up even more than 19th Century Terrorist. The hate the slur of Paedo and we can't be touched for singing it.
We are up tour knees in Paedo blood.....We hate Celtic, Paedo bastards and we'll chase them everywhere etc
 
I think if we changed the F word to Paedo it works and I think might even wind the mentally challengeds up even more than 19th Century Terrorist. The hate the slur of Paedo and we can't be touched for singing it.
We are up tour knees in Paedo blood.....We hate Celtic, Paedo bastards and we'll chase them everywhere etc
Listen mate, if my idea of totally changing the song ,bar the tune , is a non starter, then changing the 19th Century Terrorist word is just not going to work.
Not a dig at you btw
 
We lack a champion who will defend our cause. Let's not forget, the Labour Party and LibDems hate us as much as snp. We have no political clout.
 
I think we are largely missing the point. It's not about the words or the songs. And certainly not right and wrong.

The bigger picture is that they identified that as a weak spot. They then mobilised and built the machinery to use it against us. They got people into FARE. Into the press. Used NBM when they had too. Got the ear of UEFA. Manipulated meanings and definitions and public perceptions. And all to the point of closing stands in our stadium.

Currently they have people in the Scottish government and the SFA/SPFL (many under the employ and banner of other clubs). They have been pushing for strict liability in Scotland and would've had it by now if they hadn't messed up the OBFA.

The war is in the press and Holyrood and the SFA. Not over changing words. Until we start building bridgeheads and influence is these places then we can expect more attacks and more news like yesterday.

We have done nothing against them despite the biggest opportunity in their history currently existing to do damage to them. With credit and respect to Adam Tomkins and co asking for an enquiry is good and right, but as a cultural force we should be judge, jury and executioner on them. Ruthless. Unapologetic. Because that's how they operate. We are a million miles away from that and the opportunity will pass.
I agree largely with your points but what do you expect? We are NOT like them. We CANNOT be like them.

We haven’t been raised with a chip in our shoulder and told from cradle to grave that we are an underclass who are being shafted by the Protestant majority. We didn’t go to schools which were echo chambers in a social and religious sense building a feeling of oppression and narrow minded hypocracy

We don’t hate them like they hate us. It doesn’t consume us and it’s not in our collective consciousness to end their culture. Fck we don’t even have a collective conscious
 
I agree largely with your points but what do you expect? We are NOT like them. We CANNOT be like them.

We haven’t been raised with a chip in our shoulder and told from cradle to grave that we are an underclass who are being shafted by the Protestant majority. We didn’t go to schools which were echo chambers in a social and religious sense building a feeling of oppression and narrow minded hypocracy

We don’t hate them like they hate us. It doesn’t consume us and it’s not in our collective consciousness to end their culture. Fck we don’t even have a collective conscious

We say that, then we go and sing songs about them. In European games.

Whilst there's got to be a sense of perspective, with it only being football, there's got to be an understanding of what's going on and how its happening. I appreciate this cant be and shouldn't be for everyone, but it has to be for the club.
 
We say that, then we go and sing songs about them. In European games.

Whilst there's got to be a sense of perspective, with it only being football, there's got to be an understanding of what's going on and how its happening. I appreciate this cant be and shouldn't be for everyone, but it has to be for the club.
How is singing about them any comparison to their approach to us? How does it match adverts in foreign papers, a dozen daily bloggers, a wilful ability to view things hypocritically, organised pressure on MPs, MSPs, and councillors, and that’s just the last 5 year

This isn’t a regular support the mentally challengeds have. You don’t see a Man City fans doing this to Utd, Madrid fans doing this to Barca, they are in a world of their own and live in a society which feeds their obsessive paranoia and inferiority complex
 
How is singing about them any comparison to their approach to us? How does it match adverts in foreign papers, a dozen daily bloggers, a wilful ability to view things hypocritically, organised pressure on MPs, MSPs, and councillors, and that’s just the last 5 year

This isn’t a regular support the mentally challengeds have. You don’t see a Man City fans doing this to Utd, Madrid fans doing this to Barca, they are in a world of their own and live in a society which feeds their obsessive paranoia and inferiority complex

I get that. They're an abomination. No other team in world sport has to put up with such scummy, conniving b*stards but unfortunately we do.

We shouldn't try to like them, but we do have to match them in certain areas. I don't think having a Rangers influence in all these areas is a big ask.
 
It’s prevalent in black inner city culture. The word ****** is used a lot

Put on any gangster rap song in the last 20 years and you’ll hear it.
I think I know a bit more about black culture than you mate, it isn't widely used in this country at all. And please stop using that word, it's disgusting.
 
The time for dictionary definitions is well gone. For a significant number of people in the West of Scotland the term 19th Century Terrorist is synonymous with Catholic. That's the reality and the reason why UEFA are on our case.
The Billy Boys is now an anachronism and an embarrasment. Let's consign it once and for all to the dustbin of history.
Just call them what they are. “Beasts”
Job done for all songs.
 
I am still waiting for FARE, UEFA and several other people to hammer the %^*& out of Celtic for using 19th Century Terrorist on a regular basis. I would like a court, UEFA or FARE to explain why that's OK for them to use. Also, what is the offensive part?

That aside, we've been told to stop of face punishment so do that just now first and fore mostly.
 
Why not log into the Fare fb page and upload consists pictures of displays and effigies carried out by others. They state they will only investigate matches that are classed as red risk and that requires continuous reporting of behaviour to have them look at others?
100% this should be on an action list.
 
You can't really pick out words clearly when thousands of people are singing them.

Therefore we could 'get away with it' even if lots of fans sing the old word with the club/fans groups sticking to the line that we now sing a new version.
No we wouldn’t. Our stadium would be closed and we’d be on here trying to convince each other that something else was said.
 
Why not log into the Fare fb page and upload consists pictures of displays and effigies carried out by others. They state they will only investigate matches that are classed as red risk and that requires continuous reporting of behaviour to have them look at others?

Last time I reported to FARE about songs sung during a Euro match at Parkhead
What did FARE do report it to UEFA no
Passed my details to Celtic football club who sent out a letter saying it’s swept under the carpet with all of the other offences that they have committed
 
No we wouldn’t. Our stadium would be closed and we’d be on here trying to convince each other that something else was said.

Sorry mate but you're wrong here. If we could provide evidence of fans singing a new word then it could solve this mess.
 
Sorry mate but you're wrong here. If we could provide evidence of fans singing a new word then it could solve this mess.
Nonsense. It’ll sound exactly the same and our stadium will be closed. How stupid do you have to be?
 
Nonsense. It’ll sound exactly the same and our stadium will be closed. How stupid do you have to be?

I'm not going over the same thing again. You've got your opinion and I've got mine.

Not going down the route of calling people stupid either. Waste of time.
 
I'm not going over the same thing again. You've got your opinion and I've got mine.

Not going down the route of calling people stupid either. Waste of time.
Did UEFA come and ask what we were singing before telling us we had to close a section? NO. The same will happen again.
 
No, because there was never any question about we were singing.

There would be if we used a different word.
No our stadium would be closed and people would be trying to convince each other that they were singing a different word.
 
TBB and 'Super Rangers' vanished for years (didn't stop FARE though) and no-one really minded, TBB was really rousing, and loud, but I hate 'no mean city' pish and the razor gangs, and so maybe it was best to say goodbye. Not singing about Billy Fullerton is probably not a bad thing.

However, ironically, our enemies across the city continued to pollute the atmosphere. Vile chants, banners, songs, and displays. Nothing was done. No punishment. 15 fines from UEFA.....yet nothing.

Our response? "Well it's died down, no-one cares now....clearly it's open season, sing what we want".

The sectarian / terrorist filth from them actually brought back the 'F word' in our support....only for us to find that people do care now, but only in certain circumstances.
Totally spot on!
 
I'm not going over the same thing again. You've got your opinion and I've got mine.

Not going down the route of calling people stupid either. Waste of time.

But your opinion is irrelevant. As is mine. It's UEFA's opinion. And they've made it pretty f'n clear this week.
 
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No our stadium would be closed and people would be trying to convince each other that they were singing a different word.

Lots of fans would sing the new word if it was publicised properly. It's a better option than people just belting out the old word, which can easily happen whenever there's an old firm game and passions are high.

Don't see any reason for people to convince each other of anything, it's not the fans who can punish the club, it's UEFA.
 
But your opinion is irrelevant. As is mine. It's UEFA's opinion. And they've made it pretty f'n clear this week.

Got it in one mate. My point exactly. No amount of 'but the Tims sing this and that' will change it.

Bin the current version and sing a new word.
 
Lots of fans would sing the new word if it was publicised properly. It's a better option than people just belting out the old word, which can easily happen whenever there's an old firm game and passions are high.

Don't see any reason for people to convince each other of anything, it's not the fans who can punish the club, it's UEFA.
Exactly so they’ll close the ground.
Trying to be smart will help nobody.
 
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