The likely background to the Times story on the Taxman and the Tax bill

Surely there needs to be an independent enquiry now due to the blatant corruption in a government department?
 
I prefer the use of the word relegated rather than "removed and reinstated to start again at the bottom tier" as some timmy pornographers like to describe it.

Its also quicker than saying "The greedy bastarts voted us out"
We volunteered to go to the bottom league didn’t we?
They all wanted us in the Championship with loads of restrictions.
 
It wasn’t. The initial claim for the big tax case was £49m, a £35m tax bill plus £24m charges and interest (which grew as the years rolled on).

It’s stated in Martin Bains court transcripts back when he tried to get his potential compensation ring fenced.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=6fb986a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

it’s a scary read that but very revealing. That’s in September 2011 and you can tell those in the know behind the scenes could see the writing on the wall
It's £14m in fees and interest - however.............think about it.

£35m tax liability is basically saying we paid OVER £70m into EBTs????? I am NOT buying that.

If the payments were by wages and EBT - then we have to assume the tax on the wage was paid - so this would only affect EBT's.
 
IF the amended £20 million bill includes £9 million from Whyte's time in charge, then the real bill at the time of Murray's offer was £11 million so the offer should have been accepted (only £1 million less than the real bill at the time).
Even if it doesn't, without the first one, you wouldn't have got the other.

HMRC's pursuity of Rangers made the club unsellable. And, also devalued the assets which we had - clubs get players on the cheap when the selling club needs money.
 
Was this the big story that Alan Brazil said was going to shake our foundation?

The way he was going on it was a disaster.

I was thinking the same, but could this still be a disaster, does this open the door for Whyte to make some claim? I have no idea but after everything that’s happened to us and where we are now, you couldn’t rule it out.
 
We volunteered to go to the bottom league didn’t we?
They all wanted us in the Championship with loads of restrictions.

10 out of 11 clubs in the SPFL voted to relegate us to the Championship, Killie abstained. It was then up to the SFL who voted we start at the bottom because they all wanted a piece of the Rangers pie.
 
10 out of 11 clubs in the SPFL voted to relegate us to the Championship, Killie abstained. It was then up to the SFL who voted we start at the bottom because they all wanted a piece of the Rangers pie.
The SPL couldn't relegate us - the kicked us out then tried to pressure the SFL (a different legal entity) to "place" us in the Championship. The SFL members refused and put us to the bottom.

I think most if not all, Rangers fans would rather that than be indebted to the SPL in any way for placing us 1 league down.
 
did murray not offer something like 10M to HMRC at the time

is this the basis for his action against them?

It has been well reported that Murray offered a one off payment of £10m to HMRC to settle the tax bill but this was refused. Around the same time it is again reported that Arsenal settled their (far bigger) outstanding tax bill to HMRC for around £12m. Why were we not afforded the same treatment?

It has always felt like a stitch up and todays news just goes along the road of confirming it even more so.
 
The whole story still riles me

Only admin in history where there was not a fire sale of players.

Had there been, we would have raised 30 million easily, which would've been enough to pay the actual debt, as the fines were correctly made redundant.

A fantasy from start to finish. We should never have been relegated
We weren't relegated mate. We were demoted and that should never have happened!
 
The Phantom "£134m" debt was always based on a worst case scenario. I.e, we lost the BTC.

£94.4m was given to HMRC for "voting purposes" in the CVA when they should have had £9m (what CW failed to pay. The £94m+ gave them the right to veto the CVA due to them having over a 1/3 of the debt. They would have been under that if they were voting on £9m.

I think they would have had the necessary amount to block a CVA whatever - there’s the “wee tax case” debt as well and it’s only 25% that’s required to block.

The real issue here I would think is that the exaggerated figures created a situation where the only sort of person Murray could sell to was someone like Whyte.
 
IF the amended £20 million bill includes £9 million from Whyte's time in charge, then the real bill at the time of Murray's offer was £11 million so the offer should have been accepted (only £1 million less than the real bill at the time).

The total paid in EBTs was something like £49 million.

Tax due on this was circa £24 million.

Rangers paid Murray £6 million to run the EBT scheme - the net benefit to the club was only £18 million.
 
Worth noting HMRC blocked a rescue package of £8.5 million citing they were owed around £75million .

they went all out to utterly damage our club .
This exactly, HMRC refused a CVA due to their inflated bill. They also put probably a host of buyers off well before that with their hugely inflated demand on the Company.

They should be made an example of financially to stop them doing it, they do this on a smaller scale all the time, unchecked they do as they like, massive claims are the only way to get them in check.

The question needs answered as to who was driving this fraud, because that's exactly what it is, any Company over inflating invoices to customers would be considered a fraud, this is no different.
 
Could we as a support crowdfund an investigation into this?


We cant just let this slip away as time passes.



Plenty of posters on here have been banging on about this from the start.
 
That's not what the front page of the times says

I’m more inclined to believe the report of the liquidator in terms of the penalty reduction however HMRC had settlement opportunities ongoing when this was all happening and One of the main advantages of this was liabilities being settled on a non grossed up basis. I.e. if the club were to settle with HMRC then the PAYE liabilities would have been additional remuneration on the players and grossed up for the additional tax.
 
10 out of 11 clubs in the SPFL voted to relegate us to the Championship, Killie abstained. It was then up to the SFL who voted we start at the bottom because they all wanted a piece of the Rangers pie.
Sfl,spfl didn't exist at the time.
That was only formed when the spl realised their tv deal was fckd... Was all about the money
 
My belief is Whyte always planned to put the business into administration shed the debt and sell the Club to a preferred buyer (ie him or one of his cronies)At a knock down price via a pre pack arrangement.
He could then milk the debt free club for a couple of years them sell it on at a massive profit and disappear into the sunset with his millions and in his head a hero for"saving"the club.It all blew up when HMRC blocked the administration attempt.
 
Looking forward to someone from the board going on the attack,

they will, won’t they, or should I not hold my breath?
 
Nobody gonna comment on how amazing Gillian Anderson looks on the front page of the times?

No?

I'm guessing the yahoos will find some more use for their intimate knowledge of tax accountancy and ill Phil will be doing some furious one handed typing as more funds roll in from the gullible masses. Manna for these fannies. Can't wait for all the 'informed' yahoos coming up to me to me in work to 'inform' me of what this actually means.
 
People calling for investigations and litigation and reparations on here..

In reality it will all quietly go away

Rangers won’t see a penny and the perpetrators of this crime will never be punished

I'm not sure about quietly, but you'd imagine it will rumble on for years if it does reach the courts and any compensation will be to the oldco assuming they manage to pull the brakes on liquidation.
 
I think they would have had the necessary amount to block a CVA whatever - there’s the “wee tax case” debt as well and it’s only 25% that’s required to block.

The real issue here I would think is that the exaggerated figures created a situation where the only sort of person Murray could sell to was someone like Whyte.

I agree to a point Marty.

HMRC mayve could have still blocked it, but had they done so for a much smaller amount, then there would have been an outcry.

Blocking a CVA with £94m is a lot easier to justify than blocking with £15m. I get it was their policy to vote against CVAs in England due to the football creditors rule. But given that their vote was essentially the only one that mattered due to them over-egging a bill, is an utter sham & I hope BDO now dispute every bloody penny of their remaining claim.
 
10 out of 11 clubs in the SPFL voted to relegate us to the Championship, Killie abstained. It was then up to the SFL who voted we start at the bottom because they all wanted a piece of the Rangers pie.

They actually voted to expel us from the SPL. If the SFL hadn't then voted to let us join their league we'd have been left to find some other league to play in.

In the end it wasn't quite that simple, as an agreement was probably in place for the SFL to accept us at the time of the SPL vote.
 
Didn’t Dave King mention a while back about doing something with the oldco?

BDO will take a massive cut in fees from what they ingather, so millions more from hmrc is millions more from them in fees first and foremost.

Apparently a company can come out of liquidation:


"Administrative Restoration"
 
Does anyone have contact details for BDO. Surely a shareholder can make contact and demand an answer?
 
Surely there must be "tax lawyer's" salivating at the thought of getting their teeth into this? Could this be taken on on a "No win, no fee" basis. Whilst it would be nice to get money back, I want those responsible exposed and jailed.
 
So if we sue HMRC then any money raised goes to oldco and is used to pay the debts, MOST OF THE DEBT IS TO HMRC

Sorry if this has been covered.
 
Looking forward to someone from the board going on the attack,

they will, won’t they, or should I not hold my breath?

In reality it's nothing to do with the current board though is it? It related to the previous holding company, so the current board im not sure have a stake in this at all. Yes it affects us as supporters of the club and we've all been through hell, but the current board rescued us from that. If events hadn't transpired the way they had due to liquidation, it might not even be the same people in charge now
 
From a purely football perspective the question now seems to be this- would the Scottish football authorities have had any justification for throwing Rangers out solely for having used EBTs?
 
Dont forget Mhanks Chairman John Reid was still a high flyer at Westminster when HMRC set the ball rolling on this whole mess. Then we had the Dermot Desmond/Mike Ashley Bahamas link. Still plenty background to be properly uncovered on the whole carry on. I firmly believe the Mhanks were the instigators but didnt expect us to go to the lowest division. They would've been happy to see us financially hamstrung for a couple years, redirect a few titles, and have us demoted for just one year. They ended up getting more but at least McCoist saved the titles. Cunts.
 
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