The likely background to the Times story on the Taxman and the Tax bill

Its astonishing that not just HMRC and other official parties involved screwed us over royally but the national press did so as well. There were y few who gave credence to statements about the figures being vastly inflated. The press sensationalised things to a degree that if you tried to question what was going on then you were branded as a lunatic. BBC were very prevalent in us being assumed guilty. Will we see justice for those who lost their jobs, for us who have been through years or torment at the way our club has been treated? I doubt it as though who sought to bury us will turn to shadows and we will still be left with the question of what might have been.
 
Interesting that nonce fc suddenly changed it’s stance a few weeks back and decided to tell it’s fans to vote down resolution 12 after 7 years?

No smoke without fire, I suspect they know this story is about to blow up big time and they will be implicated.
Wasn,th that just due to the fact that they didn,t have a leg to stand on.
 
Dont forget Mhanks Chairman John Reid was still a high flyer at Westminster when HMRC set the ball rolling on this whole mess. Then we had the Dermot Desmond/Mike Ashley Bahamas link. Still plenty background to be properly uncovered on the whole carry on. I firmly believe the Mhanks were the instigators but didnt expect us to go to the lowest division. They would've been happy to see us financially hamstrung for a couple years, redirect a few titles, and have us demoted for just one year. They ended up getting more but at least McCoist saved the titles. Cunts.
He very much was however there are darker forces than him at large as governments have come and gone since then so the perpetrators were still pulling strings and covering their tracks.
 
I’m sure that info about the reduction was in the last BDO report. That must have come out at least a couple of months ago now.

Surely hasn’t taken them this long to work it up into a story?

I’ve no doubt that is at the root of the story but there must be more to it surely?
The reduction was in the last BDO report.
This is old news in a lot of ways.
However I’m not sure if the news that people are not to be pursued for penalties has come yet.
 
Sir Alex said a couple of years ago
that nobody has ever been able
to give him a reason what Rangers
were punished for.
 
The reduction was in the last BDO report.
This is old news in a lot of ways.
However I’m not sure if the news that people are not to be pursued for penalties has come yet.
The last reported also stated that BDO were working to further reduce liability
 
This makes me feel sick, its bad enough what we wnet to but to think it could have been avoided is just sickening

I might be misunderstanding here, but is "avoided" the word. Avoided, yes, if it was a mistake. But if there was something more sinister at play, and people wanted Rangers put down at all means, then we couldn't have avoided it. They would have found a way.

Will happily delete this if Im wrong, and do still agree with the sickening part.
 
This is a thoroughly important point and one that is often overlooked. HMRF could have been £10M to the good, ended up with nothing but spunked away untold millions in flogging a dead horse.

They have to be held to account for this.

I’m pretty sure that they accepted a similar amount from Arsenal.

I’d like to understand why the different approach from them for us ?
 
You will remember when Lennon asked for medals to be returned because of unfair advantage blah blah. I’d like to recommend that Celtic titles over this period are deemed null and void as they gained them having an extremely unfair advantage due to HMRC blunders forcing us to be demoted. I hope the Rangers players during this period ask Celtic to hand back their medals. its Only right of course.
 
People calling for investigations and litigation and reparations on here..

In reality it will all quietly go away

Rangers won’t see a penny and the perpetrators of this crime will never be punished
And that's a fact,which is strange because that was part of the problem there was no facts.
 
Baron Reid of Cardowan.
Isn’t this political hatchet man and bully in a home for alcoholic, sex pest, war criminals, quietly singing his way through the IRA songbook, while bemoaning the fact his son, right under his nose, married into a drug dealing family and how someone must have planted the drugs found in his house.

If not, he should be.

Some CV for a Home Secretary, FFS.
 
If I was an ex-employee of Rangers unfortunate enough to have lost my livelihood, or a shareholder who had thousands pissed away into a black hole all down to some moron tapping his green and white calculator too hard I’d be seeking some form of legal help and demanding to find out how this was all allowed to happen. Dave King himself lost £20m during our financial collapse, absolutely no chance it will be allowed to be swept under the carpet if he’s able to source an ounce of truth in all this. The HMRC shredders will be in overdrive as we speak.
 
Does anyone have contact details for BDO. Surely a shareholder can make contact and demand an answer?

Have you read the story? It is BDO who are pursuing this. It is BDO who informed us - back in June - that HMRC had accepted that their demands were £26m too high. It is BDO who are now arguing the toss to have the bill further reduced by additional tens of millions.

As a creditor I can only say that BDO are keeping us well informed. By f*ck they are expensive but they are handling this in the way that I think most of us would want. They are also suing Duff and Phelps for a further £28m.

BDOs next report to Creditors is due early next month.
 
I agree to a point Marty.

HMRC mayve could have still blocked it, but had they done so for a much smaller amount, then there would have been an outcry.

Blocking a CVA with £94m is a lot easier to justify than blocking with £15m. I get it was their policy to vote against CVAs in England due to the football creditors rule. But given that their vote was essentially the only one that mattered due to them over-egging a bill, is an utter sham & I hope BDO now dispute every bloody penny of their remaining claim.

Whyte deliberately made the hmrc debt huge to force the issue. The ebt stuff hamstrung us but could have gone on indefinitely. Whyte deliberately forced hmrcs hand by not paying the PAYE to execute his plan quickly
 
Worth noting HMRC blocked a rescue package of £8.5 million citing they were owed around £75million .

they went all out to utterly damage our club .
the real figure was £20m Murray offered £10m with us paying back the rest £2m a year, that was workable

An important point too is that we were thrown out of football for a debt that had come down from £32M to £20 roughly in a couple of years and we have 45000+ supporters turning up to Ibrox every other Saturday.

Hearts meanwhile had the same or bigger debt, a lot less fans and had a couple of winding up orders served yet not one sanction.

Scottish football - corrupt to the core

:mad::mad::mad:
 
Interesting development is going to be the reaction of The Mint.
Although I have no time for him, it is clear that he was forced to sell an asset that way under potential value because of nonexistent debts.
I’ve been following this closely and since the BDO report that prompted this story I’ve been waiting for him and/or his lawyers to make a move.
He will probably wait until the whole process is complete but I suspect there will be some big lawsuit brought by him as he will be in a strong position when BDO concludes its work.
I suspect he might sue Lloyds!!
 
You will remember when Lennon asked for medals to be returned because of unfair advantage blah blah. I’d like to recommend that Celtic titles over this period are deemed null and void as they gained them having an extremely unfair advantage due to HMRC blunders forcing us to be demoted. I hope the Rangers players during this period ask Celtic to hand back their medals. its Only right of course.
Agreed, sporting integrity is paramount as ever.
 
If I was an ex-employee of Rangers unfortunate enough to have lost my livelihood, or a shareholder who had thousands pissed away into a black hole all down to some moron tapping his green and white calculator too hard I’d be seeking some form of legal help and demanding to find out how this was all allowed to happen. Dave King himself lost £20m during our financial collapse, absolutely no chance it will be allowed to be swept under the carpet if he’s able to source an ounce of truth in all this. The HMRC shredders will be in overdrive as we speak.
Excel spreadsheets will be being deleted as we speak. But seriously it beggars (!) belief that the amount was not double and treble checked and agreed before any corporate legal actions were taken.
 
Whyte deliberately made the hmrc debt huge to force the issue. The ebt stuff hamstrung us but could have gone on indefinitely. Whyte deliberately forced hmrcs hand by not paying the PAYE to execute his plan quickly

Whyte thought that he would be able to force through a CVA as he was secured creditor. What he didn't bank on was Duff & Duffer giving HMRC a claim of £94m when it should have been £15m.
 
Interesting development is going to be the reaction of The Mint.
Although I have no time for him, it is clear that he was forced to sell an asset that way under potential value because of nonexistent debts.
I’ve been following this closely and since the BDO report that prompted this story I’ve been waiting for him and/or his lawyers to make a move.
He will probably wait until the whole process is complete but I suspect there will be some big lawsuit brought by him as he will be in a strong position when BDO concludes its work.
I suspect he might sue Lloyds!!

but what deals was he subjected to just to keep the lights on in his other "ventures"
 
but what deals was he subjected to just to keep the lights on in his other "ventures"
Interesting. He may have been forced to sell other assets off cheaply, as you say, to keep the lights on.
I really would not be surprised if he went after Lloyds.
 
Old co shareholders should get together and get lawyered-up.
They will have to let BDO finish their work first. Once that has been done, I suspect that BDO will be providing potential advice that will give creditors the chance to take a class action.
 
EBTs were sanctioned by the Government. The problem arose because large companies, particularly in the finance sector, started to abuse the system in order to enable their highly valued employee success to avoid paying tax on their earnings. The loss to the Exchequer was huge so in 2009 the Government enacted legislation to prevent the tax loss from the misuse of EBTs. Legislation cannot be applied retrospectively so the Government pursued a Test Case through the Law Courts to try and recoup lost tax. The Rangers Football Club PLC was chosen as the test case victim because of its high profile throughout the UK. The Government has used the Supreme Court ruling to recover hundreds, possibly billions, of £s since then. HMRC has no scruples. The greater the publicity the better they like it. Let's just move on. But never forget everyone and every club who benefitted.
 
EBTs were sanctioned by the Government. The problem arose because large companies, particularly in the finance sector, started to abuse the system in order to enable their highly valued employee success to avoid paying tax on their earnings. The loss to the Exchequer was huge so in 2009 the Government enacted legislation to prevent the tax loss from the misuse of EBTs. Legislation cannot be applied retrospectively so the Government pursued a Test Case through the Law Courts to try and recoup lost tax. The Rangers Football Club PLC was chosen as the test case victim because of its high profile throughout the UK. The Government has used the Supreme Court ruling to recover hundreds, possibly billions, of £s since then. HMRC has no scruples. The greater the publicity the better they like it. Let's just move on. But never forget everyone and every club who benefitted.
You are right about the finance industry abusing EBTs.
However, if the Rangers test case proves the penalties imposed were not appropriate or legal, then the floodgates could open.
.
 
I’m pretty sure that they accepted a similar amount from Arsenal.

I’d like to understand why the different approach from them for us ?
I have only a vague recollection of Arsenal's settlement but it was certainly in the same ball park and that's the real scandal for me. HMRC could have been quids in but, instead, they chose to piss away good money.
 
I have only a vague recollection of Arsenal's settlement but it was certainly in the same ball park and that's the real scandal for me. HMRC could have been quids in but, instead, they chose to piss away good money.

David Edgar said that Murray offered 14m mate. 14 Fucking Million.

And seemingly Arsenal & Chelsea both made payments below 10m to sort their issues ?
 
I might be wrong but I think it was a timing issue. CW took us into admin on 14/2/12 before any action was taken against us, which in turn allowed him to use his preffered administrators.

Someone please feel free to correct me.

Normally you would try and appoint “friendly” administrators. That way you still retain some sort of influence.
 
EBTs were sanctioned by the Government. The problem arose because large companies, particularly in the finance sector, started to abuse the system in order to enable their highly valued employee success to avoid paying tax on their earnings. The loss to the Exchequer was huge so in 2009 the Government enacted legislation to prevent the tax loss from the misuse of EBTs. Legislation cannot be applied retrospectively so the Government pursued a Test Case through the Law Courts to try and recoup lost tax. The Rangers Football Club PLC was chosen as the test case victim because of its high profile throughout the UK. The Government has used the Supreme Court ruling to recover hundreds, possibly billions, of £s since then. HMRC has no scruples. The greater the publicity the better they like it. Let's just move on. But never forget everyone and every club who benefitted.

"Let's just move on"?
FFS.
 
Can we expect an in depth documentary from the bbc investigating the role played by other clubs, the sfa and hmrc in this recent revelation?
 
Can we expect an in depth documentary from the bbc investigating the role played by other clubs, the sfa and hmrc in this recent revelation?

Someone needs to contact BAFTA and ask them their view of presenting a prize to a man who peddled HMRC fabrications. Now if Daly had found out the penaltys were wrong regarding 50m then that would warrant an award. Jumping on the bandwagon does not
 
I think they would have had the necessary amount to block a CVA whatever - there’s the “wee tax case” debt as well and it’s only 25% that’s required to block.

The real issue here I would think is that the exaggerated figures created a situation where the only sort of person Murray could sell to was someone like Whyte.

I suspect this is in the news now because BDO are closing in on submitting to court for the final liquidation of Oldco. That ties in with HMRC dropping various other claims. We might see then whether Whyte really has gone or whether he has claims on any assets no longer part of an HMRC claim and which may not have passed partially or wholly to Green.
 
EBTs were sanctioned by the Government. The problem arose because large companies, particularly in the finance sector, started to abuse the system in order to enable their highly valued employee success to avoid paying tax on their earnings. The loss to the Exchequer was huge so in 2009 the Government enacted legislation to prevent the tax loss from the misuse of EBTs. Legislation cannot be applied retrospectively so the Government pursued a Test Case through the Law Courts to try and recoup lost tax. The Rangers Football Club PLC was chosen as the test case victim because of its high profile throughout the UK. The Government has used the Supreme Court ruling to recover hundreds, possibly billions, of £s since then. HMRC has no scruples. The greater the publicity the better they like it. Let's just move on. But never forget everyone and every club who benefitted.

Let's not.

Instead, let's meet the bastards that tried to kill us off head-on.

There's a war going on out there and this is not the time to move on!
 
EBTs were sanctioned by the Government. The problem arose because large companies, particularly in the finance sector, started to abuse the system in order to enable their highly valued employee success to avoid paying tax on their earnings. The loss to the Exchequer was huge so in 2009 the Government enacted legislation to prevent the tax loss from the misuse of EBTs. Legislation cannot be applied retrospectively so the Government pursued a Test Case through the Law Courts to try and recoup lost tax. The Rangers Football Club PLC was chosen as the test case victim because of its high profile throughout the UK. The Government has used the Supreme Court ruling to recover hundreds, possibly billions, of £s since then. HMRC has no scruples. The greater the publicity the better they like it. Let's just move on. But never forget everyone and every club who benefitted.
Move on?

Seriously?

You need your head examined if you don’t think this is worthy of further action.
 
I don't know.

Just on here for the first time since 5:am ish.

The thoughts combusting through the 'tiny' today have came to this;

'Why now?

Why would ratbags who pursued us for a decade and more now admit to 'a blunder' of such proportions?

Is there someone(s) now up above looking into the actions of the 'blunderers'?
 
Could we as a support crowdfund an investigation into this?


We cant just let this slip away as time passes.



Plenty of posters on here have been banging on about this from the start.

Is there not a time when we say the club needs to go all the way?

Crowd funding by fans is not the way here.

And I don't want to read stuff from Club 1872 in the next few days.

The club needs to be leading and taking force.
 
John Reid, together with the papes infesting HMRC.
IMO, Reid was the orchestrator of the whole set by HMRC. I clearly remember his statement that. "I am compiling a dossier which will blow Scottish football apart", in perhaps 2007. It is impossible to find this statement anywhere, although I read it in more than one newspaper at the time.
He is the only person who had the authority and contacts in Scottish political hierarchy to coordinate this attempted assassination.
He held 7 different cabinet posts in 7 years when Blair was PM. Not long enough in any post to achieve anything, but install his sycophants and placemen.
He has not been seen, heard from or spoken about since 2012, for some reason he has become a nonperson, it is as if he never existed.

PS. An alcohol sex pest too.
 
EBTs were sanctioned by the Government. The problem arose because large companies, particularly in the finance sector, started to abuse the system in order to enable their highly valued employee success to avoid paying tax on their earnings. The loss to the Exchequer was huge so in 2009 the Government enacted legislation to prevent the tax loss from the misuse of EBTs. Legislation cannot be applied retrospectively so the Government pursued a Test Case through the Law Courts to try and recoup lost tax. The Rangers Football Club PLC was chosen as the test case victim because of its high profile throughout the UK. The Government has used the Supreme Court ruling to recover hundreds, possibly billions, of £s since then. HMRC has no scruples. The greater the publicity the better they like it. Let's just move on. But never forget everyone and every club who benefitted.
Let’s just move on? I think I’d like to linger a while to hopefully see some cunts pay for what they’ve put tens or hundreds of thousands of people through.
 
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