The majority of these players cannot be allowed to continue into next season.

The lack of intensity and pressing,given that’s what was most impressive about us pre winter break has been hard to stomach.

This is probably the biggest concern for me.

Surely Gerrard and Beale have been at pains to instruct the players to press with greater intensity after each game post new year?

Surely this is what they’ve been working on on the training ground?

And yet every game we come out the tunnel and start with the same languid, pedestrian pace.

Either Gerrard isn’t getting through to the players or they just don’t care.

Whatever one it is it’s down to the manager to sort and after each passing lacklustre performance without improvement you begin to wonder if it ever will without an injection of several much better quality players.
 
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Yeah let’s get rid of the majority of the squad because of a slump in form, that seems sensible and not at all idiotic.
It's 9 games and it's at the same crucial period of the season they did the same last year.

Can you ever just disagree without throwing insults about?
 
This is probably the biggest concern for me.

Surely Gerrard and Beale have been at pains to instruct the players to press with greater intensity after each game post new year?

Surely this is what they’ve been working on on the training ground?

And yet every game we come out the tunnel and start with the same languid, pedestrian pace.

Either Gerrard isn’t getting through to the players or they just don’t care.

Whatever one it is it’s down to the manager to sort and after each passing lacklustre performance without improvement you begin to wonder if it ever will without an injection of several much better quality players.
@SDF made the point the other day that we’re missing a couple of nasty b.astards in the team and I have to agree- to win trophies you need a mix of qualities and while we have some very technically gifted players we lack a bit of grit and guile blended in I reckon.

Guys who will kick anyone that moves when required.
 
Well that'll be 10iar on a plate for them then, if you're ripping up the squad and starting again.

Well done.
 
@SDF made the point the other day that we’re missing a couple of nasty b.astards in the team and I have to agree- to win trophies you need a mix of qualities and while we have some very technically gifted players we lack a bit of grit and guile blended in I reckon.

Guys who will kick anyone that moves when required.

Can’t disagree with that. I thought Jack had that tendency but it’s not been evident of late.
Other than that, we look light.

Thing is though, I’m not sure ‘hard nasty b**tard’ is the type of player Gerrard will stick on his shopping list.
 
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We've spread the wage budget too thinly and bought a large quantity of players who are good to a certain level but not that next step up. We lack a top drawer player in the team other than Morelos and McGregor IMO. We need to promote a good few from the dev squad and put trust in the young lads to make the step up to squad player level and use them to fill the holes of higher wage squad players we ship out. With a few top drawer players who will create and score many more goals and carry them through, we should be better placed to kill off teams and turn these dropped points into wins more consistently.
 
There are very few examples of complete rebuilds working mainly because you always get fall out from transfers in.

If you looked at O'Neil at the Piggery he never bought a flair player in his life-he brought in steel and experience and was lucky he had Larsson, the wee Lubo guy and Petrov who flourished under having some steel and organisation. That gave him the balance of a very strong team.

You are suggesting in equivalent terms we use our best to completely rebuild which would be a minor miracle if it worked. We'd suspect Morelos will go but frankly he's in his worst slump since arriving-can we guarantee he is not going to have an indifferent end to the season and hurt his value?

How this will work in real terms is at the end of the season SG will have an even better idea of what requires to change-individually and collectively. If it gets so bad he leaves for whatever reason then the new guy will do the same.

It will not be done punter style let's have a big bonfire.
There are players that would likely leave even if we'd won a treble this season. Ojo, Barker, Jones and a few others.

Morelos will almost certainly go as I thought was always expected, I'm actually surprised there's even debate about that although I agree he's in awful form.

I also think Tavernier could raise significant funds. Kamara could easily go and play for a Brighton or Palace etc. There would be takers for Aribo, Goldson and a few others.

I am merely being more emphatic in what the manager said the other night - we thought we had a core that could deal with the pressure and that is now seriously up for debate.

Maybe he's an idiot as well?
 
I expect hysterical threads like this as a regular feature on here if we drop points but lo and behold, one pops up even after we've won.
"The majority of our players need moved on next season?".....all I can say is Thank God you're just a punter and nowhere near making decisions about how to progress our football team!
 
They have sleptwalked into a 10 point deficit in a matter of weeks, are totally incapable of dealing with difficult moments in games and appear lifeless when a reaction to adversity is required and expected.

You can argue the toss about Gerrard, there will be rumblings but there's no chance he's going anywhere given near enough the whole football department has been appointed to suit him.

We have a lot of very good footballers in our squad but there are huge mental scars/question marks with some of them. James Tavernier is someone I have gone to bat for on god knows how many occasions and playing in a Rangers team from different eras is someone I'm sure would have won many titles but even I now find myself wondering if the guy can ever recover from what he's endured in the last 5/6 years. He is merely an example.

I could easily see us in a similar position next winter break because we have some very good players but being honest how many would you really trust in the same situation we found ourselves in post 29th December?

The choice is whether you trust them to have learned from 2 post winter break title race capitulations or whether you roll the dice and bring in new recruits that can handle the situation a bit better.

Either way, the sheer lifelessness and lethargy about recent performances when there is so much at stake has to be factored in when we're planning for next season.
Let's just sell all the starting 11 and start all over again in the summer. Great shout mate.
 
Can’t disagree with that. I thought Jack had that tendency but it’s not been evident of late.
Other than that, we look light.

Thing is though, I’m not sure ‘hard nasty b**tard’ is the type of player Gerrard will stick on his shopping list.
That’s my concern tbh,McCrorie,Murphy and Docherty all have something to offer we’re lacking in but because their ball retention or pace isn’t a certain standard they appear to be unwanted.

I’m not sure that’s a wise strategy,and I say that as someone who likes to see an effective passing game.
 
There’s so many posts I could reply to individually here, so best just starting from scratch.

“The majority of players cannot continue into next season” - well that’s just not true at all is it? We have a core of players who MUST continue into next season; McGregor, Tav, Barisic all must continue to next season. The next 2 will split opinion, but I think Goldson and Katic must also continue. I’m not saying don’t strengthen that area, but for the love of god don’t throw them off the wage bill just because they’re not world beaters.
Jack and Kamara in the middle of the park for me must stay. Again, build around them by all means, but they need to stay. Then we can throw in Kent (he’ll come good again), Jones still needs to be given a proper chance, and of course Alfie.

There’s 10 players straight away that I’d be disappointed if any were sold or released (think we can assume Alfie will be sold, but for a healthy profit so that can be forgiven).

This is the core of the team that led us into a great position pre-winter break 2 years in a row, and who led us to the LCF which we should’ve won.

Now on to the subject of winning, I must admit I buy into the whole bottling / mentality thing, I don’t see any other logical explanation for the collapse 2 years in a row and for the failure to bury the poets in the LCF. Yes we beat them in the league but was there a huge burden on that game as much as securing silverware as was the case in the LCF? No there wasn’t. Then since we came back from the winter break, once again our arses collapse cos we’re really getting to the nitty gritty.

I also buy into the ethos that “winners” on the park help the other team-mates who don’t have the experience in getting over the line. We have only McGregor and Davis who meet that criteria at the moment, and I don’t expect Davis to see much action next year. And therein lies the problem.

So what is the solution then? Well we can’t go and break the bank and sign 3-4 proven winners, they’ll cost money, so the only way I see forward is to add 1-2 in the summer, and then hopefully a third in the winter transfer window next year.

This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone though, should it? Every single rangers supporter and their dog knew this was the long term plan when SG was appointed. If anything, the players and management are being punished for being too good in the first half of the season and building up too many hopes. But I’ve no doubt success will come our way in the next 18 months if we stick to the plan. And I believe that plan always was to slowly build a solid, well-gelled team which needs to be done over a number of windows.

Calls to sack the manager and chuck more than half the squad away at the first opportunity is frankly absolute lunacy.
 
Instead of selling all the players, we need to keep the current bunch and buy even better quality players in the summer. That means when your top quality players are out injured or suspended you still have a squad that is filled with quality. The squad were impeccable for the first half of the season, therefore the quality isnt in doubt. Football is all about confidence, look at how we played today after our goal. Were all the players celtic signed this summer "winners" or did they just come into a team with a strong mentality and flourished? You can guarantee if Aribo or Kent were in their squad right now their mentality wouldn't be getting questioned.
 
We look like an average SPFL plodder side at times, something unforgivable considering our budget compared to the rest out-with Celtic.

McGregor is the only winner and captain. Tav is a weakling who will be lucky to ever lift silverware as captain of Rangers.
In what way is Tav a weakling?
 
The ones coming in for criticism e.g Kent, Aribo are the young ones. Both have incredible talent and ability to be great but it will take time to achieve that consistency.

I agree we could use more reinforcements and if someone’s willing to spend 100 million on Ronaldo go ahead. But with our budget I think we’dbe getting more of the same getting rid of the players we have
Aribo has played more first team games so far this season than at anytime in his career so it's bound to be a learning curve on how to maintain fitness and form. Kent like a lot of wingers seem to be quite inconsistent so as you say hopefully with experience they will get better. The crowd getting on their back wont help them.
 
Or go with the same lot that have collapsed and handed them 8 and 9 on a plate.

Building title winning squads is about stability, especially from our starting position with Gerrard in 2018. We are so far behind them financially that the only way we're ever going to have a shot at the title is giving a manager a 2, 3, 4 year run at building it. Some supporters just can't accept that, but it's the truth.
 
Or go with the same lot that have collapsed and handed them 8 and 9 on a plate.
How do you know the new players you wish to bring in this summer wouldn't do the same? Perhaps you are looking at the players too closely on an individual level. Celtics team have a winning mentality and that is mainly push by the main players like Brown etc. Are you telling me Greg Taylor formerly of Kilmarnock is a "winner"? Same with Frompong and all there other new players.
 
There are players that would likely leave even if we'd won a treble this season. Ojo, Barker, Jones and a few others.

Morelos will almost certainly go as I thought was always expected, I'm actually surprised there's even debate about that although I agree he's in awful form.

I also think Tavernier could raise significant funds. Kamara could easily go and play for a Brighton or Palace etc. There would be takers for Aribo, Goldson and a few others.

I am merely being more emphatic in what the manager said the other night - we thought we had a core that could deal with the pressure and that is now seriously up for debate.

Maybe he's an idiot as well?

SG is showing the first signs of being a bit all over the shop with statements bad results brings that because he has to say something and it is only words. You talk enough you will start to contradict yourself.

What will be interesting to me is the likes of a Kamara I doubt he would survive even at a Palace and I would suspect now he too has went off form that teams might well be having second thoughts.

However we can debate till the cows come home-we don't know what clubs will bid and who will go.

What I think has raised ire is the notion of effectively ripping it up and starting again AND selling many of your best to finance that. For all of his flaws a Tav is very important to us I'm not sure how easily he can be replaced but of course it could happen.

As I stated early in an absolutely ideal world we would keep the majority of the first team and look to bring in say 3 peak players who would push current starters into the squad but even that isn't easy to do.
 
Building title winning squads is about stability, especially from our starting position with Gerrard in 2018. We are so far behind them financially that the only way we're ever going to have a shot at the title is giving a manager a 2, 3, 4 year run at building it. Some supporters just can't accept that, but it's the truth.
The key point that undermines this is the near identical collapse that we saw last year as well. If there was a bit of inconsistency littered across the season I would probably agree with you.

That it's just a big coincidence their performance dips when a bit of expectation starts to gather - that's asking fans to believe an awful lot.
 
We’ve been struggling for goals all season (and last).
Out with Morelos, we need a lot more from our midfield and forwards.
I’m quite hopeful on Hagi. I think for most games it’s one ‘sweeper’ type midfielder and two attacking mids who shoot on sight, along with two forward players cutting on and shooting.
 
They did the same last year. What if they did again next season.
We can’t keep repeating the same mistakes and not addressing them.
I would sell Tavernier, Goldson, Jack, Kamara and Morelos. I would also sell Kent if we could get our money back, however I think he will stay.
We need players in the team used to winning things and dealing with the pressure needed to do this.
All of those players have won nothing in the game so far and show no sign of doing so.
I wouldn’t include Kamara as one of those players but if someone is willing to give a large fee I would sell him to improve our squad.
I’d keep Tav, Goldson,Jack (I’d also say Alfie as well but he is away) and unfortunately I think Borna will be away. You also can’t expect us to win the league with such a high turnover of players mate.

Tav isn’t a winner (as of yet) but he is a leader and with winners around him he can be part of a winning Rangers squad. Tbh I don’t think you’ll realise how important Tav is to us until he’s gone
 
The problem looks more mentality than ability
This for me. This group of players was, in the main, sweeping aside teams with ease pre the break. Since then the same players have struggled to put two passes together at times. As the evidence suggests it is not lack of ability or fitness I believe it is an attitude/mental issue.
 
Name some.

Barasic, Davis, Goldson, Jack have all been captains before. McGregor is a leader. Thats 5 people who are captains, plus our actual captain.

Such a lazy, lazy excuse
Arfield is another, Canada captain.
 
I think it's quite clear Alfredo goals were papering over a hell of a lot if cracks. Take the m out of the equation, as we are seeing now, and the true picture of where we are at is there for all to see.

We are a one man team.
 
The key point that undermines this is the near identical collapse that we saw last year as well. If there was a bit of inconsistency littered across the season I would probably agree with you.

That it's just a big coincidence their performance dips when a bit of expectation starts to gather - that's asking fans to believe an awful lot.

It needs improvement, nobody's denying that. That's what you do, you keep adding to it and tweaking every transfer window, year on year.

All I'm saying is your suggestion of "the majority" being binned and starting again will just set us back to square one again.

The evidence is there that we are progressing, and it's probably at a realistic rate given where we've been. Maybe even better. The problem is what's coming up for the filth next year, the "10". It's got alot of us panicking and setting unrealistic expectations.
 
I'm not overly convinced at the moment but I think with a bit more experience we've got a good team and management set up. That coupled with the tramps winning every game even when they're not on form. They cant keep winning forever.
 
SG is showing the first signs of being a bit all over the shop with statements bad results brings that because he has to say something and it is only words. You talk enough you will start to contradict yourself.

What will be interesting to me is the likes of a Kamara I doubt he would survive even at a Palace and I would suspect now he too has went off form that teams might well be having second thoughts.

However we can debate till the cows come home-we don't know what clubs will bid and who will go.

What I think has raised ire is the notion of effectively ripping it up and starting again AND selling many of your best to finance that. For all of his flaws a Tav is very important to us I'm not sure how easily he can be replaced but of course it could happen.

As I stated early in an absolutely ideal world we would keep the majority of the first team and look to bring in say 3 peak players who would push current starters into the squad but even that isn't easy to do.
It might have been foolish to say it but either way he will be thinking it.

I know you're personally of the opinion that it all comes down to finance and squad depth but I haven't seen much change from Celtic apart from Griffiths in for Christie and a slight change of shape-I don't see superstars in reserve.

Not many have answered the question I asked in the op about how many players they completely trust - going into next year hoping the core of the squad don't do what they've done the last 2 seasons is risky.
 
If a number of the dubious decisions not given in our favour had went our way then we'd be sitting much closer to the top. Yes we should be winning more comfortably but if we are getting goals chopped off and penalties not given then we aren't getting allowed to score the crucial next goal.
 
Quite remarkable that a player after having surgery and a lay off hasn't bounced back to his best.

Ever considered he's not match fit? Jack and Davis are exactly the same....as is Morelos.
Hes just came back from surgery for fucks sake.
Easy, easy there tigers. I responded to this "Did you see how shite the team was with Tav out?" That clearly implies that the team hasn't been shite since he came back and he had made a difference.
Posting reasons why he hasn't made a difference is agreeing with my post.
 
They have sleptwalked into a 10 point deficit in a matter of weeks, are totally incapable of dealing with difficult moments in games and appear lifeless when a reaction to adversity is required and expected.

You can argue the toss about Gerrard, there will be rumblings but there's no chance he's going anywhere given near enough the whole football department has been appointed to suit him.

We have a lot of very good footballers in our squad but there are huge mental scars/question marks with some of them. James Tavernier is someone I have gone to bat for on god knows how many occasions and playing in a Rangers team from different eras is someone I'm sure would have won many titles but even I now find myself wondering if the guy can ever recover from what he's endured in the last 5/6 years. He is merely an example.

I could easily see us in a similar position next winter break because we have some very good players but being honest how many would you really trust in the same situation we found ourselves in post 29th December?

The choice is whether you trust them to have learned from 2 post winter break title race capitulations or whether you roll the dice and bring in new recruits that can handle the situation a bit better.

Either way, the sheer lifelessness and lethargy about recent performances when there is so much at stake has to be factored in when we're planning for next season.

Job going at Man City for you soon.

So the players that battered the mentally challengeds in the last two games should be binned?

Lets start again - 16 new players - 6 new backroom staff - 50.000 new supporters! sorry 49,999.
 
We have a lot of nice footballers in the team but these need to be complemented by players who know the league, guys like Docherty, Ferguson at Aberdeen etc.
Is that the Ferguson that got beat today? Do you mean Docherty at Aberdeen because he's complicit with McInnes in giving them 12 points a season.
 
When it really matters this team just haven’t got it I suppose if you take a step back we have made good Progress under Gerrard and have been improved year on year but he needs to start weeding out the mentally weak and losers imo.

Take the money for Alfie if it’s there in the summer sell Tav and build a midfield that can win titles because I think it’s this area that’s hurting us the most.

The majority on here think that the midfield is our strongest area.

Genius thinking sell a full back and a forward and buy more midfielders!!!
 
Is that the Ferguson that got beat today? Do you mean Docherty at Aberdeen because he's complicit with McInnes in giving them 12 points a season.
Clearly means Docherty at Hibs. Ferguson is surrounded by weasels. I'd happily have them both in our squad, playing games that don't really need a Kamara. They'd give a different dimension. Maybe they'd not play a lot in Europe, but certainly would do well in Scotland.
 
Explain the brilliance of selling a centre forward and full back to buy midfielders.

Read what I posted i said could help build a midfield not solely spend it on midfield ffs obviously you’d have to replace said players.

Would also mean selling some midfielders Kamara Doc Davis hasn’t long left.

Our midfield has been the biggest problem since the break the tempo it sets has been shocking the pace and weight of pass well off constantly backward passing and caught in the ball when pressed I could go on but I imagine if you watch us you’ll already know this.
 
Is that the Ferguson that got beat today? Do you mean Docherty at Aberdeen because he's complicit with McInnes in giving them 12 points a season.
Sorry, I should have been clearer that I meant Docherty who is currently on our books. But yes, I mean Ferguson who got beat today. Let’s not bother with him then because he’s part of a shitebag Aberdeen team, the same team Ryan Jack was part of.
 
Read what I posted i said could help build a midfield not solely spend it on midfield ffs obviously you’d have to replace said players.

Would also mean selling some midfielders Kamara Doc Davis hasn’t long left.

Our midfield has been the biggest problem since the break the tempo it sets has been shocking the pace and weight of pass well off constantly backward passing and caught in the ball when pressed I could go on but I imagine if you watch us you’ll already know this.

So we sell two players and replace them with some midfielders and a centre forward and a full back.

Basically that would mean getting a less valued centre forward a less valued full back and a couple of dodgy midfielders.
 
This team before the winter were going toe to toe with that lot. While making positive strides in the Europa cup..
I think it’s down to mentality and a unfounded cockiness which they can’t seem to fulfil in this second period.
 
There’s so many posts I could reply to individually here, so best just starting from scratch.

“The majority of players cannot continue into next season” - well that’s just not true at all is it? We have a core of players who MUST continue into next season; McGregor, Tav, Barisic all must continue to next season. The next 2 will split opinion, but I think Goldson and Katic must also continue. I’m not saying don’t strengthen that area, but for the love of god don’t throw them off the wage bill just because they’re not world beaters.
Jack and Kamara in the middle of the park for me must stay. Again, build around them by all means, but they need to stay. Then we can throw in Kent (he’ll come good again), Jones still needs to be given a proper chance, and of course Alfie.

There’s 10 players straight away that I’d be disappointed if any were sold or released (think we can assume Alfie will be sold, but for a healthy profit so that can be forgiven).

This is the core of the team that led us into a great position pre-winter break 2 years in a row, and who led us to the LCF which we should’ve won.

Now on to the subject of winning, I must admit I buy into the whole bottling / mentality thing, I don’t see any other logical explanation for the collapse 2 years in a row and for the failure to bury the poets in the LCF. Yes we beat them in the league but was there a huge burden on that game as much as securing silverware as was the case in the LCF? No there wasn’t. Then since we came back from the winter break, once again our arses collapse cos we’re really getting to the nitty gritty.

I also buy into the ethos that “winners” on the park help the other team-mates who don’t have the experience in getting over the line. We have only McGregor and Davis who meet that criteria at the moment, and I don’t expect Davis to see much action next year. And therein lies the problem.

So what is the solution then? Well we can’t go and break the bank and sign 3-4 proven winners, they’ll cost money, so the only way I see forward is to add 1-2 in the summer, and then hopefully a third in the winter transfer window next year.

This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone though, should it? Every single rangers supporter and their dog knew this was the long term plan when SG was appointed. If anything, the players and management are being punished for being too good in the first half of the season and building up too many hopes. But I’ve no doubt success will come our way in the next 18 months if we stick to the plan. And I believe that plan always was to slowly build a solid, well-gelled team which needs to be done over a number of windows.

Calls to sack the manager and chuck more than half the squad away at the first opportunity is frankly absolute lunacy.
I think we could potentially get almost forty million for Alfie and Kamara,particularly if the latter has a decent Euros which historically drives transfer fees up.

Half of that could potentially provide Hagi,two strikers and two midfielders of a high standard with the right scouting I hope.

McGregor,Tav,Goldson,Katic,Barasic,Jack,Davis,Arfield,Aribo and Kent should all be able to contribute to a successful team over a season with the right quality around them surely?
 
The same squad/team outplayed Celtic twice before the winter break . A good win at Parkhead and what should have been a league cup win by a few goals .
They cant have became sh1te footballers in 6 weeks. Has the heavy December schedule drained them, was the Dubai trip the wrong thing, over confidence a thing. Bad refereeing has definetley not helped.
I think a few will go and hopefully a few brought in to strengthen the squad especially an Attacking Centre Mid and another Forward.
We don’t react well to winning Old Firm games.
 
So we sell two players and replace them with some midfielders and a centre forward and a full back.

Basically that would mean getting a less valued centre forward a less valued full back and a couple of dodgy midfielders.

Tav is not half the player he was last season he has regressed big time it’s time to cash in.

Alfie isn’t allowed to play his game so a liability cash in.

I think the midfield is a real problem so I’d fix it first I don’t see what your problem with that is?
 
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