The midfield thread (please no abuse)

True Blue Avenger said:
Pretty much my thoughts too. I do rate Jack and what he brings to the team but for me he's probably the one to make way for Aribo in the games where we're going to be the team dominating possession. Horses for courses though and Jack will have his role to play during season. I would add that its doubtful whether Davis can handle a 50+ game season so we're going to have to be smart at when and where we use him. Docherty, McCrorie and Halliday all very decent back up options to have but feel the time is right to regrettably call it quits with Rossiter if the rumoured interest from down south is true.

Its the 2 advanced roles behind (or at the side of) Morelos / Defoe that I'm really intrigued about. Currently 6 players battling it out for 2 positions - Arfield, Ojo, Stewart, Jones, Hastie and Candeais. 7 if we get Kent back. You'd have to think Arfield has a jersey given his brilliant contribution last season, at least in the xmas tree formation. So the new boys have a hell of a fight on their hands to impress and grab a place in the squad and I really couldn't hazard a guess at this point in time who will come out on top. Competition will be fierce though, which is exactly as it should be so pleasing on that front.

Man, I wish this season would just start already!!
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Add Murphy to the advanced players. A player who has already demonstrated he has what it takes!
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Really? The word from @ID10 was that there 'was interest' in Rossiter. I suspect we've left him behind to sort out a new club. He certainly won't be replacing Jack anytime soon.
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There may well be interest in him, but that doesn't mean he's leaving, could be the potential of a 6 month loan and he's gone to check it out, as SG has maybectold him he'll play more elsewhere than he will with us first half of the season, which would be good for his longer term return. I'd be more concerned if there was no interest in him.

Seems there are other rumours he has just been given a bit more time off.
 
Starting Anew said:
After all the debate on other threads, thought it might be sensible to try to have one for the topic. Can we please try to not slag off players or slag off posters who don’t believe that your favourite player is Beckenbauer.

Assuming that we continue to play 3 midfielders, who will they be? If we play the Christmas tree you could argue that there is more scope for defensive mids. If we play 4,3,3 then all the midfielders need to be able to play box to box and link to the attack.

Our options seem to be (2 most controversial first):

Arfield. One of our best players last year but arguably one who doesn’t actually play his best in the midfield 3. Better played further forward in the Christmas tree as part of the 2. When playing in the 3, he can get pinned back too far behind the forward line to maximise his attacking threat. This may have been exacerbated by playing with players who were not great at bringing the ball forward so the whole midfield got pinned down. This may have improved with new personnel.

Jack: great reader of space defensively and crucial for breaking down opponents’ play. Gives great cover to Tav as well, dropping to shadow right back at times. Also good at seeing the runs of others. But limited in skill on the ball. Not great at dribbling and his range of passing does not match his ability to see the passes. Benefits from having a midfield colleague near him so Jack can win the ball and lay it off for someone else to create with. But this then means that 2 players need to be near each other and deep.

Davis. Elder statesman. Great vision. Great range of passing. Can create from deep. Reads the game at least as well as Jack and can create with the ball himself. But not as fast as Jack and not quite as strong in the tackle. Probably doesn’t help Tav as much just because he no longer has the legs. IMHO our first choice holding player but won’t play every game at his age.

Kamara. Massively improved the team when he came in. First midfielder we’ve had in a while who can take the ball for a walk and ride through challenges. Great vision for forward passes and range of ability to do them. Can tackle though not his main feature. Not known for scoring much.

Aribo (by reputation and YouTube videos). Fairly complete box to box engine. Strong in the tackle but also good at dribbling and passing. Able to play creatively in tight areas. Genuine goal threat. Biggest down side is not knowing if he will live up to all this.

McCrorie. Strongest tackler in the squad. Great at retaining the ball through a tackle and walking away with it under control. Athletic and able to burst through opponents with strength and change of pace. Not great at passing and uses strength more than skill when dribbling. Not always the best reader of the game and can be caught out of position.

Docherty. May or may not feature in the squad. Proper box to box athlete but doesn’t really excel at any one area. Almost certainly a squad filler rather than a starter.

Rossiter. Who knows? Could be a midfield general in the proper Gerrard mould. Could play one game all season. His career may depend on this preseason and his next move.

In my view, our strongest 3 are Davis, Kamara and Aribo, offering a balance between defensive and offensive abilities and complementing each other. Arfield plays further forward for me and is competing with Ojo and Hastie. Jack will get a lot of game time replacing Davis at times and maybe replacing Kamara or Aribo in tougher games.

All of the first 5 will play 20 games plus. The others are all really too hard to call right now
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Excellent post and a fair assessment of our player's strengths and weaknesses, without the mindless criticism.

Breath of fresh air thread.

Well played sir.
 
Jaws II said:
The manager needs about 6 midfielders of a good quality who can cover for injuries and suspensions and for different tactical approaches that SG decides to use.
The manager will want it that if he has to replace or drop a player that there is no drop in the quality of the players on the park and they will continue to get victories.
People have to stop going in a strop because someone picks a midfield 3 that doesn’t have your favourite player.
We have to wait and see how they play now once the season commences before we can say what we think is our best midfield.
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Agree Jaws. And different circumstances will dictate a different 3, and that’s before injuries & suspensions.
 
True Blue Avenger said:
Pretty much my thoughts too. I do rate Jack and what he brings to the team but for me he's probably the one to make way for Aribo in the games where we're going to be the team dominating possession. Horses for courses though and Jack will have his role to play during season. I would add that its doubtful whether Davis can handle a 50+ game season so we're going to have to be smart at when and where we use him. Docherty, McCrorie and Halliday all very decent back up options to have but feel the time is right to regrettably call it quits with Rossiter if the rumoured interest from down south is true.

Its the 2 advanced roles behind (or at the side of) Morelos / Defoe that I'm really intrigued about. Currently 6 players battling it out for 2 positions - Arfield, Ojo, Stewart, Jones, Hastie and Candeais. 7 if we get Kent back. You'd have to think Arfield has a jersey given his brilliant contribution last season, at least in the xmas tree formation. So the new boys have a hell of a fight on their hands to impress and grab a place in the squad and I really couldn't hazard a guess at this point in time who will come out on top. Competition will be fierce though, which is exactly as it should be so pleasing on that front.

Man, I wish this season would just start already!!
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Good post.
 
ecossebear said:
Add Murphy to the advanced players. A player who has already demonstrated he has what it takes!
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Very true, forgot about him and agree he could be a good option if he can replicate form he showed when he first joined.

So 7 / 8 players (if Kent returns) for 2 positions...will take some careful management from Gerrard but ceetainly makes a nice change from last season where we only had Kent, Candeais and latterly Arfield.
 
Starting Anew said:
I agree that Jack is not great at passing. Also agree that McCrorie is better at tackling. He usually walks away with the ball under control while Jack often knocks it loose and needs someone else to win the second ball.

But Jack is very very good at controlling space and seeing what opponents are up to. He is rarely caught out of position or beaten by a through ball. And is very very good at filling in the spaces vacated by Tav or other midfielders as they attack. Davis can do this too but doesn’t have the same legs to run to do all the covering. We do miss this greatly without Jack. But i’d hope we don’t need it too much in most games.
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Without wanting to start another Jack thread the lad is excellent at reading the game and breaking up play. Makes a huge amount of interceptions which are match better than making tackles! People who got to football and watch only the ball don't see all the work he does.

McCrorie is a strong tackler but his range of passing is way short, he does not help ball retention in the team is positioning is average. That will all improve with games but he really needs regular football just now. A loan is best for all parties.
 
Kamara, Davis, Aribo as our first choice midfield with Jack, Docherty, McCrorie and possibly Rossiter as backup/ options.

Arfield as an inside forward as he finished the season although can obviously play in the midfield 3 but this nullifies a lot of the intelligent work he does in final 3rd.
 
I think we need to see how the setup in the last few games of last season stands up to the rigours of the new.

I thought we looked a more cohesive outfit with Defoe up top and Arfield pushing forward in support with Davis and Kamara pulling the strings behind them, but there wasn’t a great deal left to play for by then so we need to see how it looks under greater scrutiny.

Aribo replacing Jack may be the only change we make middle to front therefore (unless we fail to lure Kent back), but where does that leave Morelos?
 
omegaman said:
I think we need to see how the setup in the last few games of last season stands up to the rigours of the new.

I thought we looked a more cohesive outfit with Defoe up top and Arfield pushing forward in support with Davis and Kamara pulling the strings behind them, but there wasn’t a great deal left to play for by then so we need to see how it looks under greater scrutiny.

Aribo replacing Jack may be the only change we make middle to front therefore (unless we fail to lure Kent back), but where does that leave Morelos?
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Think Morelos just plays instead of Defoe. The difference at that point was not Defoe replacing Alfie but was instead us finding a midfield combination that worked in being able to support that attack.

Alfie’s play is slightly different to Defoe’s but both are intelligent players who are happy to create for others. They occupy defences in different ways. Defoe with pure movement and intelligence and Alfie by scaring the living shit out if them with his physicality. But both create plenty of space for others.

Morelos starts with Defoe as back up. Though there is a strong argument that the best player at the club for the Arfield role in the Christmas tree is Morelos himself playing off Defoe. Doubt we’ll see that though.
 
Starting Anew said:
Think Morelos just plays instead of Defoe. The difference at that point was not Defoe replacing Alfie but was instead us finding a midfield combination that worked in being able to support that attack.

Alfie’s play is slightly different to Defoe’s but both are intelligent players who are happy to create for others. They occupy defences in different ways. Defoe with pure movement and intelligence and Alfie by scaring the living shit out if them with his physicality. But both create plenty of space for others.

Morelos starts with Defoe as back up. Though there is a strong argument that the best player at the club for the Arfield role in the Christmas tree is Morelos himself playing off Defoe. Doubt we’ll see that though.
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Personally I think Morelos will leave.

I also think it’d probably be for the best all round that he does.
 
omegaman said:
Personally I think Morelos will leave.

I also think it’d probably be for the best all round that he does.
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He might well do. But that won’t be best for us. It is very unlikely we’ll get a player of his quality to replace him. The cash that we’d get would certainly help with trying though.
 
Starting Anew said:
He might well do. But that won’t be best for us. It is very unlikely we’ll get a player of his quality to replace him. The cash that we’d get would certainly help with trying though.
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I think Morelos has probably gone as far as he can in Scottish football.

He’s a marked man and despite his best efforts to wind his neck in, which admittedly hasn’t often been in evidence, there’s an ugly and unnatural zeal to punish him that’s unlikely to have been diminished by a single summer.

I also have the feeling the player himself just wants to try his luck elsewhere now.

The trick is going to be getting the desired amount of money for him though.

I can see a lot of people having their expectations shattered there, but I digress - you were talking about the midfield :)
 
omegaman said:
I think Morelos has probably gone as far as he can in Scottish football.

He’s a marked man and despite his best efforts to wind his neck in, which admittedly hasn’t often been in evidence, there’s an ugly and unnatural zeal to punish him that’s unlikely to have been diminished by a single summer.

I also have the feeling the player himself just wants to try his luck elsewhere now.

The trick is going to be getting the desired amount of money for him though.

I can see a lot of people having their expectations shattered there, but I digress - you were talking about the midfield :)
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If we get a good offer he can go. But that has to be a genuinely good offer not one of these “we’ll be lucky to get £5mill” FF nonsense.

But the idea that we need to get rid of players targeted by refs or the Scottish media is not one that is going to work. Any good player we get will face this treatment.
 
I think Kamara, Davis, Arfield. Especially if Kent comes back I think Arfield will be back in the midfield 3
 
Think it will be horses for coarses . Like if we play on plastic away from home can see Stewart and Jordan being involved simply because they are used to them. Against the likes of The Filth Kamara and Kent will be first on team sheet as they bossed them all season
SG has a lot more options now so expect formations to change more frequently not just from game to game but throughout the ninety minutes.
Got a feeling Hastie will get a lot of game time switching with Candeis depending on opposition
 
Buster said:
Think it will be horses for coarses . Like if we play on plastic away from home can see Stewart and Jordan being involved simply because they are used to them. Against the likes of The Filth Kamara and Kent will be first on team sheet as they bossed them all season
SG has a lot more options now so expect formations to change more frequently not just from game to game but throughout the ninety minutes.
Got a feeling Hastie will get a lot of game time switching with Candeis depending on opposition
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Think Candeias is quite far down the pecking order now. When playing with true wingers then you’d expect Ojo to be expected to be the starter. I’m not 100% convinced about Hastie but would love him to come good. Think him and Candeias are battling for the deputy winger role as things stand. Though all will depend on form preseason. Of course Arfield also stakes a claim in the Christmas tree with Stewart challenging him. As you say, suspect we’ll see more variety in formations being played. However, if either Ojo or Hastie manages to start hitting goals from a true wing role then Arfield will have a harder time finding a place. That’s surprising given how good he was last year but great news if it happens.
 
I find it strange to pick a best midfield (or best 11).
There’s different selections that will suit different circumstances and opposition.
A tough away match where the opposition are going to come at you, you might go with 2 players who can break up play, and one more attack minded. At home against teams that will sit in you want guys who can control the midfield and set up attacking play.
You might also change it depending on what you think the individual strengths and weaknesses of opposition players are.
 
Graemelins said:
I find it strange to pick a best midfield (or best 11).
There’s different selections that will suit different circumstances and opposition.
A tough away match where the opposition are going to come at you, you might go with 2 players who can break up play, and one more attack minded. At home against teams that will sit in you want guys who can control the midfield and set up attacking play.
You might also change it depending on what you think the individual strengths and weaknesses of opposition players are.
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Agree to an extent but there is also a value in having a settled ‘first’ 11 who know their roles and their teammates abilities intimately.

In most games we play, we shouldn’t be worrying about the opposition. They should be worrying about us.

Though nothing should ever be completely rigid and adapting in the right games will be crucial. I’d like to think that this will largely be us moving between 4,3,3 and Christmas tree, 2 formations that suit the players we now have and that also quite dramatically alter the focus of our attack, making it hard to defend if we can successfully switch between them in-game.
 
If Aribo plays as advertised, it’ll be the first time in years we’ve actually had a collection of midfielders that complement each other’s styles of play.

To be able to set up an engine room built either dig in, or unlock a packed defense, AND have the ability to change the shape and nature of play during the game is a luxury we just haven’t had.

Bodes well for the upcoming season.

Now, who’s going to start the defense and attacking threads?
 
Said on another thread it is all about the squad. We need depth in every area and with the arrival of Aribo I think we are pretty well covered in the central mid roles. Davis, Jack, Kamara, Aribo, any 3 from 4 with McRorie, Docherty, Halliday as back ups. Arfield can also drop deeper if required.
 
I think more important than who will be our best midfield three, is that all our midfielders can buy in to our ethos of play ie quick, tight, incisive, forward passing ( one touch where possible) primarily going through the middle , working triangles, pressing and closing down quickly when not in possession. In other words, how we played the tail end of last season. Of course each midfielder has different strengths and each bring something different to the game in their own way perhaps with a slightly different emphasis eg for a more physical battle or a packed defence to breakdown.However the different styles of the individual should NOT be detrimental to the midfield pattern, style and tempo that was so successful at the end of the season. It should be that the preferred midfield is the one which can undertake most successfully the above described pattern of play. If all the midfielders can buy into this then we should maintain our consistency and rhythm. Any midfielder slowing things up or playing unnecessarily too deep or safe backward and side passes should not be considered. We will use all our current midfielders over the course of the season due to injuries, form dips, rest requirements and suspensions. Everyone must buy into our pattern and style of play which unlike our previous ‘get it out to the wingers and fire in a series of endless ineffective crosses ‘, is very hard for teams to play against and for which their is virtually no adjustment or tactic to counter.
As a GUESS, Kamara Davis Aribo/Arfield will be our ideal preference depending how well Aribo hits the ground running, and on the form of other players in training and the early friendlies.
 
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