The process of a rebuild

Albertz Loyal

Albertz Loyal

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Looking back at where we were when Gerrard took over, you have to admire how well he rebuilt the team. He was given cash, but no where near how much Ange has been provided, he got in some solid/reliable players (Davis, McGregor, afield, goldson, even Flanagan).. Knowing first and foremost we would be hard to beat, and he managed to gel them with the talent we had to make us better as a collective.

Across the city, they've splashed the cash, but honestly seem to have no actual plan on how they actually want to play. Jota and kyogo look like decent players, but like when Warburton tried to jam in Barton, windass, senderos, kranjar .. you might get a few decent performances, but to do it week in week, week out is difficult.

We now find ourselves are going through a mini rebuild, trying to fit in new players and freshen the squad with the threat of losing a few top performers. We are taking a bit of a hit on the footballing side, but now seeing lundstrum step up, you can maybe see why he might be a decent replacement for Davis longer term.

Trying to be patient myself, hopefully the likes of Bacunna/wright/fashion can also grow and we can move through this period undamaged.
 
It’s like big Ange has a list and so does the board across there. Fantastic to see as they are both hopeless.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
Looking back at where we were when Gerrard took over, you have to admire how well he rebuilt the team. He was given cash, but no where near how much Ange has been provided, he got in some solid/reliable players (Davis, McGregor, afield, goldson, even Flanagan).. Knowing first and foremost we would be hard to beat, and he managed to gel them with the talent we had to make us better as a collective.

Across the city, they've splashed the cash, but honestly seem to have no actual plan on how they actually want to play. Jota and kyogo look like decent players, but like when Warburton tried to jam in Barton, windass, senderos, kranjar .. you might get a few decent performances, but to do it week in week, week out is difficult.

We now find ourselves are going through a mini rebuild, trying to fit in new players and freshen the squad with the threat of losing a few top performers. We are taking a bit of a hit on the footballing side, but now seeing lundstrum step up, you can maybe see why he might be a decent replacement for Davis longer term.

Trying to be patient myself, hopefully the likes of Bacunna/wright/fashion can also grow and we can move through this period undamaged.
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Also add, this is the first time Gerrard has had to do this, so expect a bumps.. sir Alex and Walter were the master at a refresh, but sure it took them time to learn the art
 
Building a team takes time, but you have to get the foundations right.
Under gerrard that 1st year we brought in experience and quality....yes there were 1 or 2 gap filling loans but this was added to over time and eventually it has become a tweak rather than a rebuild.

The bheasts look to be building on sand with a scatter gun approach in the hope that numbers of bodies miraculously click.

That was never going to happen, if half of your players hit the ground running then you're doing well and I can see them having to start again next season with masses of bodies in and out.

Hopefully by which time we'll be even further ahead with a massive chunk of change in the bank from champions league qualification.

Happy days B-)
 
To be fair to Ange, he has taken in 30 million and that is one of my biggest problems with our gaffer that he has never sold big.
Rebuilds take time and it is early days for Ange but at the old firm you dont get time, and that is why i can see him being chased at the end of the season or sooner if he does not get resukts soon.
Gerrard was clever with signings and loans and I think our rebuild was more structured to the Celtic one which seems scattergun.
 
They haven’t rebuilt anything-just replaced one man and then didn’t even afford him his own back room team. There was always going to be a large player turnover but the scatter gun approach to recruitment has been totally haphazard-out of the dozen players brought in, the two players the manager hand picked seem to be the only pass marks, Kyogo and Juranovic-both currently injured! The regression on their squad quality and depth is tremendous, the bench yesterday was thin to say the least. The footballing infrastructure off the park is also non existent-no scouting, sports science, data analytics departments whilst trying to implement a frantic high press/paced style of play, no wonder the players are pulling up injured. Ange’s Celtic footballing pyramid is upside down and about to topple over, Gerrard built a solid base when he took on our rebuild and got us doing the basics very well, even then we were patient as we could see clear progression. They on the other hand are already imploding, I love it.
 
MarkWalters11 said:
To be fair to Ange, he has taken in 30 million and that is one of my biggest problems with our gaffer that he has never sold big.
Rebuilds take time and it is early days for Ange but at the old firm you dont get time, and that is why i can see him being chased at the end of the season or sooner if he does not get resukts soon.
Gerrard was clever with signings and loans and I think our rebuild was more structured to the Celtic one which seems scattergun.
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He's taken in nothing so far, the departure this summer are historical sales from when they seemed to scout well.

Furihashi aside, and even then, see where that is come December the additions made by them this summer look to have next to no long term value to be brought in, a collection of loans, veterans and substandard reserves.
 
They don't have a midfield.

McGregor being injured leaves them with Rogic, Turnbull, McCarthy, Soro and Bitton in case of emergency.

The interesting thing is that over the last few years they've been downsizing but they've always had assets to make a decent profit from...Tierney, Dembele, Frimpong, Ajer and Edouard.

Now who do they have? Realistically not one of them would fetch over £10m despite them thinking Kyogo is the new Larsson.
 
Our second massive rebuild starts next summer.

5 with a year left on their deals. 7 out of contract including a whole host of veterans and our vice captain.

That is an awful lot of players to replace. The question is if the manager wins a second league title this season, will he stick around for another transitional phase ?
 
not to be dramatic, but he was a miracle worker.

we had no right being in europe that first year and it expedited the whole process.

when you read kds these days and they detail the difficulty that any new manager would have turning their ship around, it’s impossible not to have an even greater appreciation for what gerrard done with the tools he was given

fans also deserve some credit for being cognisant of the situation and the time needed to fix things
 
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SDF said:
Our second massive rebuild starts next summer.

5 with a year left on their deals. 7 out of contract including a whole host of veterans and our vice captain.

That is an awful lot of players to replace. The question is if the manager wins a second league title this season, will he stick around for another transitional phase ?
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I think that depends on how much hard cash he will get to rebuild the team. He won't want to go into the Champions League for us to get embarrassed. That does nothing for his CV.
 
TheMish said:
He's taken in nothing so far, the departure this summer are historical sales from when they seemed to scout well.

Furihashi aside, and even then, see where that is come December the additions made by them this summer look to have next to no long term value to be brought in, a collection of loans, veterans and substandard reserves.
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He was in charge when Eduard was sold a few weeks back was he not? So he has taken in money mate, like it or not he has and I wish we could do the same.
I am all for having a go at Celtic but annoying as it is they seem to get money for their players.
 
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SDF said:
Our second massive rebuild starts next summer.

5 with a year left on their deals. 7 out of contract including a whole host of veterans and our vice captain.

That is an awful lot of players to replace. The question is if the manager wins a second league title this season, will he stick around for another transitional phase ?
Click to expand...
An absolutely crucial squad turnover awaits us at the end of the season. We will almost certainly say goodbye to Mcgregor, Davis, Balogun, Arfield, Goldson. That’s five guys with a massive wealth of experience that won’t be easily replaced.
 
SDF said:
Our second massive rebuild starts next summer.

5 with a year left on their deals. 7 out of contract including a whole host of veterans and our vice captain.

That is an awful lot of players to replace. The question is if the manager wins a second league title this season, will he stick around for another transitional phase ?
Click to expand...

I appreciate you keep asking that, but unless the board decided to withdraw any form of funding should we make the CL why wouldn't he?

He has a contract till 2024, he would have a side walking into the CL group stages and in a place to be pretty dominant domestically giving him free reign to work on a rebuild of a side which he will likely have to do again at some stage in his career, it would be good experience for him.
 
MarkWalters11 said:
He was in charge when Eduard was old a few weeks back was he not? So he has taken in money mate, like it or not he has and I wish we could do the same.
I am all for having a go at Celtic but annoying as it is they seem to get money for their players.
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Ajer and Eduard were out the door with or without him being in charge.
 
TheMish said:
He's taken in nothing so far, the departure this summer are historical sales from when they seemed to scout well.

Furihashi aside, and even then, see where that is come December the additions made by them this summer look to have next to no long term value to be brought in, a collection of loans, veterans and substandard reserves.
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This. Other than the guy Abada all their other signings are middle to late 20s.

Won’t be much sell on value for them unlike Edouard Dembele and AJer
 
Gerrard was given that little bit of extra time because of who he was, that bad spell we went through after new year would have seen a lot of mangers gone
 
Reminds me of a song from Sunday School (long time ago!!) -

The wise man built his house upon the rock/the foolish man built his house upon the sand

The rains came down and the floods came up (mentally challenged tears), and the house on the rock stood firm/and the house on the sand went crash
 
Spartan said:
An absolutely crucial squad turnover awaits us at the end of the season. We will almost certainly say goodbye to Mcgregor, Davis, Balogun, Arfield, Goldson. That’s five guys with a massive wealth of experience that won’t be easily replaced.
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I can see McGloughlin being made number 1 and McCrorie number 2, so goalkeeping is sorted.

However you are spot on , Davis, Balogun, Arfield, Goldson, away, and then with Alfie and Borna are stick ons to be sold..its a huge amount of top drawer players to lose in one year.
 
I doubt some of their signings are 100% the manager's. Clearly Kyogo was. James McCarthy though was obviously a board signing to please the mhank hordes.

Aside from it taking the time to gel their signings together, the manager himself will be in culture shock just now. You don't just move halfway round the globe to a massive pressure job like this and immediately perform at 100%. He has had that little bounce at the start and on a dip now and personally you can see he is struggling. It'll take a good few more months for him to settle in and the results to come.

Hopefully by then we're going great guns and well clear at the top.
 
be11y said:
Reminds me of a song from Sunday School (long time ago!!) -

The wise man built his house upon the rock/the foolish man built his house upon the sand

The rains came down and the floods came up (mentally challenged tears), and the house on the rock stood firm/and the house on the sand went crash
Click to expand...
I think I remember this, same tune of “ we shall not be moved “ if memory serves me

 
MarkWalters11 said:
To be fair to Ange, he has taken in 30 million and that is one of my biggest problems with our gaffer that he has never sold big.
Rebuilds take time and it is early days for Ange but at the old firm you dont get time, and that is why i can see him being chased at the end of the season or sooner if he does not get resukts soon.
Gerrard was clever with signings and loans and I think our rebuild was more structured to the Celtic one which seems scattergun.
Click to expand...
What do you mean "Ange has taken in 30 million"? They sold the 2 best players because they were desperate to leave, nothing to do with Ange turning players into big sales.
 
Teddy bear said:
What do you mean "Ange has taken in 30 million"? They sold the 2 best players because they were desperate to leave, nothing to do with Ange turning players into big sales.
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Not sure what you and Mish are disputing.
He was the manager when Ajer and Eduard was sold, and even if he had no clue who they were, on paper, he still has sold them as he was "in charge".
Not really a false statement .
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
In all honesty Gerrard signed a lot of dross before getting it right.

Polster
Flanagan
King
Worrall
Lafferty
Sadiq
Grezda
McAuley
Ojo
Coulibaley
Ejaria
Barker
Stewart
Hastie
Jones
Edmundson
Simpson
Kamberi
Zungu

Davis and Defoe are good signings now, but their first half a season there was big questions marks next to them.

There's still question marks over Itten, Lundstram, Bassey (maybe slightly harsh there), Ofoborh and Sakala for me too - in terms of making it at the club and winning things/making big contributions.
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Most of these weren't dross but were signed to do a job at that specific time and did so.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
In all honesty Gerrard signed a lot of dross before getting it right.

Polster
Flanagan
King
Worrall
Lafferty
Sadiq
Grezda
McAuley
Ojo
Coulibaley
Ejaria
Barker
Stewart
Hastie
Jones
Edmundson
Simpson
Kamberi
Zungu

Davis and Defoe are good signings now, but their first half a season there was big questions marks next to them.

There's still question marks over Itten, Lundstram, Bassey (maybe slightly harsh there), Ofoborh and Sakala for me too - in terms of making it at the club and winning things/making big contributions.
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Much of those were squad fillers and a cheap/free punt during a period of transition and big turnover of players. He got the main men in and they continue to deliver. In most cases you get what you pay for. In that regard you can't be too critical with those listed. We'll have more like them in the coming years i'd expect, but the bigger signings have largely been a success.
 
They have went for the quick fix option . Instead of restructuring the club from top to bottom.
After what we went through i think our fans were very patient with Gerrard.
I don't think the hordes from the east will be quite so patient :))
 
MarkWalters11 said:
Not sure what you and Mish are disputing.
He was the manager when Ajer and Eduard was sold, and even if he had no clue who they were, on paper, he still has sold them as he was "in charge".
Not really a false statement .
Click to expand...
You said "to be fair to Ange, he brought in 30 million on transfer fees" that implies that he was responsible for developing these players and/or setting the transfer fee before allowing them to leave.
When in truth they were sold before he was hired.
 
bobba said:
not to be dramatic, but he was a miracle worker.

we had no right being in europe that first year and it expedited the whole process.

when you read kds these days and they detail the difficulty that any new manager would have turning their ship around, it’s impossible not to have an even greater appreciation for what gerrard done with the tools he was given

fans also deserve some credit for being cognisant of the situation and the time needed to fix things
Click to expand...
I know it’s easy to say now but I think you have highlighted one of the biggest points. Patience was key. This was always a three to four year job and thank god the board and fans stuck with it. Still a way to go. We need this league for the pot of gold at the end to get us back on a stable footing. We are not quite out of the woods yet.
 
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Teddy bear said:
You said "to be fair to Ange, he brought in 30 million on transfer fees" that implies that he was responsible for developing these players and/or setting the transfer fee before allowing them to leave.
When in truth they were sold before he was hired.
Click to expand...
Think we can agree we are splitting hairs a bit, but I doubt if Palace has said we will give you 8 million Ange would have accepted.
 
With Gerrard every year you could see an improvement and doing well in the Europa cup helped, I keep hearing celtic fans say that Rangers fans were wanting Gerrard sacked - I don't know anyone who wanted Gerrard gone, this seems to be another 1 of these things they dream up.
 
Bloke in my work, supports them but a good guy, says he’d always written this season off because it takes time to implement a new system and create a title winning team. He cited Gerrard as the obvious example.

He also claimed to still be excited by the brand of football big Flange is trying to have them play however and feels it will succeed over time.

I asked if he felt he’d be given that time though and he was unsure admitting that many in the Celtic support have unreasonable expectations.

So it’s interesting that they’re using Gerrard as an example whilst dismissing the even greater similarities to Pedro and his memorable Hedgeball system.
 
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