There are two distinct issues here and both need addressed

AriseSirWalter said:
For all those focusing on the unfairness of FARE here is a link where you can report abuse to them;
https://farenet.org/get-involved/report-discrimination/

Bombard them with all the incidents of cel'ic fans being bigoted, not just songs, the effigies, banners, the lot! If we do it en masse then they can't just ignore it, if they do then we go to UEFA again en masse saying that we've reported discrimination to FARE and they have ignored us.

We need to force them to be equal in their treatment or highlight their hypocrisy, continuing to sing until action is taken against cel'ic isn't a viable response.
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All very well but FARE are a unaccountable body you're basically complaining to them.They won't give 1 single %^*&.
 
So much has been written on here of much we agree on. We need to get our own house in order first. However it’s a much bigger picture when we start to talk about a level playing field.
We need clarity and the club needs to employ or direct a investigator to gather evidence and ensure that other clubs are monitored accordingly. Having gathered this evidence we then need to present it again in a constructive manner and insist on a decision from the football authority as to what action will be taken.
The group that gathers this evidence should consist of an independent authority , a club representative and suitable recording device that will be accepted.
We need to be organised.
 
Some excellent responses.

Obviously the penny has dropped that it can't go on but there is a realisation that FARE are a complete sham. It's how to tackle the unaccountable bigots that needs some serious digging.

I'm encouraged that despite being furious, plenty of fans get what action is required from us regarding songs.

UEFA are also very dubious in this. Why wait until tickets sold etc? The timing reeks of sheer incompetence or collusion. Remember this UEFA mob allows Spanish police and stewards to assault travelling fans, awards finals to countries with huge racism and homophobic issues and ignores anti British / protestant bile from the paedos.

Corrupt to the core.
 
bluecode03 said:
So much has been written on here of much we agree on. We need to get our own house in order first. However it’s a much bigger picture when we start to talk about a level playing field.
We need clarity and the club needs to employ or direct a investigator to gather evidence and ensure that other clubs are monitored accordingly. Having gathered this evidence we then need to present it again in a constructive manner and insist on a decision from the football authority as to what action will be taken.
The group that gathers this evidence should consist of an independent authority , a club representative and suitable recording device that will be accepted.
We need to be organised.
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Good post. Ive said the same about the double standards, bias and lies in the press.
 
monkey magic said:
If only it was so easy. Who defines what is sectarianism ? UEFA don't know and rely on a discredited Rangers hating left wing group like FARE to tell them what it is, and we suffer the consequences. And before anyone again says if only we change the songbook, FARE will just move onto other songs. FARE will need to be challenged at UEFA by Rangers. If not, they will never stop coming after us.
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You are top class.
 
Paisleyprod said:
We will no longer get away with certain songs or certainly add ons and continuing to indulge at this at game will get us hammered. Do I like it? Do I feck. It's words. They hurt no one apart from the mock offended who have been trying to %^*& us over for years and have finally succeeded. Like it or not, it has to stop in order that the club we are all supposed to love suffers. Clear plan and crystal clear instructions on what can and can't be sung must be circulated (again). We need to suck it up I'm afraid.

That said, the club and fans must press for answers as to what standards we are being judged to compared to every other club in Europe, what games these eager to be offended moral crusades are attending and if not all, why not? Also why are chants that are derogatory towards Protestants amongst other things and pro terror and anti British (racism in their book) seems to not matter.

There are too many dismissing whataboutery etc but the two issues need looking at immediately as there is no doubt that we are being treated differently and we probably already no why but the reasons must be laid bare for all to see.

Do not forget the lengths our enemies went to change the meaning of 19th Century Terrorist. It has never meant Roman Catholic.

There is a witch hunt and I hope the club whilst tackling the pressing issues it faces regarding our songbook has enough about it to demand answers and out FARE (19th Century Terrorist Apologist Rangers Enemies) for the agenda driven bastards they obviously are.
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Best post on the topic. Agree word for word.
 
PP your post is spot on it really riles me when I hear bears say we stop and then they can act on what they sing it simply isn't the case we have been here before , our club must really act on two levels proper co - oeraton with the support while making sure the authorities who ignore others are not allowed to
 
What's to stop loads of them attending our matches and singing the songs to get us into shit
 
ahalfallover said:
We talking long term now
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Well we could already be looking at a stadium closure for our next match.

And the next stage is possible expulsion from a tournament.

Without European football we are losing millions a year.

You don’t need to be an accountant to see where that leads.

And what will Gerrard’s management team be telling him if this develops ?
 
Anybody who knows anything about Irish history will know that the 19th Century Terrorist Brotherhood was a violent 19th century terrorist group. They took their name from the mythological Irish (and Scottish Gaelic) hero Finn MacCool and his followers the Fianna, or 19th Century Terrorists. Eventually it morphed into a derogatory term applied generally to Irish Catholics, that was the way it was used when I was growing up in Northern Ireland and I'm sure Scotland was the same. Anyone who claims it wasn't used in this way is deluding themselves. So it has to go and the sooner the better. The Billy Boys seemed to have disappeared from the Rangers song book a few years ago, but now its back. Let's hope this is the shock we need to get rid of it for good.
Legitimate questions also have to be asked about why our main rivals haven't been hit with a similar sanction. They have a record as long as your arm for displaying illicit banners and singing illicit songs, but have only been punished with fines. Perhaps E.U.F.A. have run out of patience and decided to get tough, lets hope they apply this punishment impartially across the board and that there isn't one rule for one club and another for others.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
Well we could already be looking at a stadium closure for our next match.

And the next stage is possible expulsion from a tournament.

Without European football we are losing millions a year.

You don’t need to be an accountant to see where that leads.

And what will Gerrard’s management team be telling him if this develops ?
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We just played a team who defied uefa few times
Be good if we could take onboard that mentality
 
Paisleyprod said:
I'm encouraged that despite being furious, plenty of fans get what action is required from us regarding songs.
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I'm not so sure most fans know what action on songs is necessary. I think everybody knows what "sectarian" singing is, but what songs were classed as racist? If we're being punished for anti Irish racism then the scope of amending the song book becomes wider than eliminating "19th Century Terrorist" and "FTP" words and add ons. Build My Gallows, FF, Fathers Advice and others may also come under scrutiny.
Do you know if we're being punished for racism against people of colour, or anti Irish racism?
 
mart22 said:
I'm not so sure most fans know what action on songs is necessary. I think everybody knows what "sectarian" singing is, but what songs were classed as racist? If we're being punished for anti Irish racism then the scope of amending the song book becomes wider than eliminating "19th Century Terrorist" and "FTP" words and add ons. Build My Gallows, FF, Fathers Advice and others may also come under scrutiny.
Do you know if we're being punished for racism against people of colour, or anti Irish racism?
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I was meaning in terms of this thread and others but have since seen some uber staunch on facebook having a pop at "handwingers".

We are being treated differently by FARE without a shadow of a doubt but we simply cannot let them punish us any furrher though steps must be taken to out FARE as the sham that they are.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
I think there’s a third thing. A group of Bears should go on the offensive in terms of recording & securing evidence about scum singing, misbehaviour, FARE, etc and start to send it to papers & authorities.

We can turn a negative into a positive instead of just moaning.
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I'm sure that's already been tried mate , to no avail.
 
ahalfallover said:
We just played a team who defied uefa few times
Be good if we could take onboard that mentality
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So you are saying keep singing certain songs (I do not have a problem with said songs but UEFA do) and next steps, close full stand, then stadium then expulsion. If that happens we're fucked as a club.

We as fans and the club need to get sneaky, political and discredit individuals and bodies who are Rangers haters.

Most will do nothing and expect others to do it for them, as for the club I think we'll have a long wait for them to get underhand despite all the shite flung at it for a couple of decades.
 
The world over is very sensitive these days, whether it's genuine or to show how virtuous you are for social media likes. It's not really a surprise that singing about being up to our knees in 19th Century Terrorist blood is gonna attract attention. It's a tap in for the enemies of our club.
 
Paisleyprod said:
So you are saying keep singing certain songs (I do not have a problem with said songs but UEFA do) and next steps, close full stand, then stadium then expulsion. If that happens we're fucked as a club.

We as fans and the club need to get sneaky, political and discredit individuals and bodies who are Rangers haters.

Most will do nothing and expect others to do it for them, as for the club I think we'll have a long wait for them to get underhand despite all the shite flung at it for a couple of decades.
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100%.

On the club, I’ve seen a load of people having a go at them but are we really asking them to come out & support fans who are actually breaking the law ? May be a shite law, but how can they justify that ?
 
Manfred said:
The world over is very sensitive these days, whether it's genuine or to show how virtuous you are for social media likes. It's not really a surprise that singing about being up to our knees in 19th Century Terrorist blood is gonna attract attention. It's a tap in for the enemies of our club.
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Ban the F word from football completely then and nan all anti-British anti-protestant stuff or FARE are discriminating
 
Over the years how many fans have been killed/ stabbed beaten in Italy and Turkey much worse than a song......fact is unless we got someone in the eufa corridor were fucked these corrupt basturds only care about money and palms getting greased
 
Paisleyprod said:
I was meaning in terms of this thread and others but have since seen some uber staunch on facebook having a pop at "handwingers".

We are being treated differently by FARE without a shadow of a doubt but we simply cannot let them punish us any furrher though steps must be taken to out FARE as the sham that they are.
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I completely agree with you. If there is a repeat against Legia we'll be reported again, and punished again. If our support sing unacceptable songs then the consequences will be our own fault. We'd be crazy to bring it on Rangers, and ourselves again after this warning.
FARE are well in with UEFA. Outing them as the sham they are won't be easy, and may even be more damaging to ourselves. Dialogue with them won't be easy either. FARE are prejudiced. They hate us.
 
mart22 said:
I completely agree with you. If there is a repeat against Legia we'll be reported again, and punished again. If our support sing unacceptable songs then the consequences will be our own fault. We'd be crazy to bring it on Rangers, and ourselves again after this warning.
FARE are well in with UEFA. Outing them as the sham they are won't be easy, and may even be more damaging to ourselves. Dialogue with them won't be easy either. FARE are prejudiced. They hate us.
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May need to pay for a lawyer to out the fuckers

A fund if we had such a thing. Independent of the club
The club won't do anything. Even Bain outed those charlatans
 
Paisleyprod said:
We will no longer get away with certain songs or certainly add ons and continuing to indulge at this at game will get us hammered. Do I like it? Do I feck. It's words. They hurt no one apart from the mock offended who have been trying to %^*& us over for years and have finally succeeded. Like it or not, it has to stop in order that the club we are all supposed to love suffers. Clear plan and crystal clear instructions on what can and can't be sung must be circulated (again). We need to suck it up I'm afraid.

That said, the club and fans must press for answers as to what standards we are being judged to compared to every other club in Europe, what games these eager to be offended moral crusades are attending and if not all, why not? Also why are chants that are derogatory towards Protestants amongst other things and pro terror and anti British (racism in their book) seems to not matter.

There are too many dismissing whataboutery etc but the two issues need looking at immediately as there is no doubt that we are being treated differently and we probably already no why but the reasons must be laid bare for all to see.

Do not forget the lengths our enemies went to change the meaning of 19th Century Terrorist. It has never meant Roman Catholic.

There is a witch hunt and I hope the club whilst tackling the pressing issues it faces regarding our songbook has enough about it to demand answers and out FARE (19th Century Terrorist Apologist Rangers Enemies) for the agenda driven bastards they obviously are.
Click to expand...

Will the club go after FARE though? If not, why not? Seem to be great at issuing statements attacking the fans but can't call out the treatment we get?

If the club won't go after FARE, what can we (fans) do?
 
LJ50 said:
This is right, they will move onto other songs. Our existence offends them. We’d be naive to think that if 19th Century Terrorist stops then they’ll leave us alone. They won’t.

But that’s not a reason to keep singing it. As I’ve said elsewhere, this battle is lost. Anyone who tries to fight to use the word 19th Century Terrorist is just giving ammunition to our enemies in the war to protect everything else we have.

No, it’s not fair. But it is reality. And really, if that word means more to you than Rangers well being then you need to look in the mirror.
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As much as I agree they’d really want to do this, what songs are you thinking of and what words within these songs can be a problem?
Can I ask you to be realistic here.
 
tazzabear said:
As much as I agree they’d really want to do this, what songs are you thinking of and what words within these songs can be a problem?
Can I ask you to be realistic here.
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I’ve been realistic elsewhere.

We’ve heard them suggest WATP is a song about “religious superiority”. We’ve had them claim The Bouncy is about jumping on Catholics heads. They claimed Penny Arcade celebrated sectarian murders. We’ve even had them condemn the Hokey Cokey supposedly being played at supporters functions.

They will seek to find offence in anything we do, and the above is so unfathomable to me that I can’t begin to imagine what they’ll invent. Frankly, anything is realistic on the basis of their recent track record.
 
LJ50 said:
I’ve been realistic elsewhere.

We’ve heard them suggest WATP is a song about “religious superiority”. We’ve had them claim The Bouncy is about jumping on Catholics heads. They claimed Penny Arcade celebrated sectarian murders. We’ve even had them condemn the Hokey Cokey supposedly being played at supporters functions.

They will seek to find offence in anything we do, and the above is so unfathomable to me that I can’t begin to imagine what they’ll invent. Frankly, anything is realistic on the basis of their recent track record.
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They can be offended, that’s what they do but, can anybody take the suggestions you offer seriously?
If they could, wouldn’t they have already done so?
 
tazzabear said:
They can be offended, that’s what they do but, can anybody take the suggestions you offer seriously?
If they could, wouldn’t they have already done so?
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Mate, if you’d told me 20 years ago, as TBB ringed around Ibrox when we went 2 up against Parma, that they’d complain about TBB and be taken so seriously that it would be banned less than 10 years later then I’d have said exactly the same thing to you.

The suggestions I offer have all made the papers. Every last one of them. Their cheerleaders have all tried to paint the claims as facts.

They’ve gone after the easiest targets, I think it’s naive to think that they won’t go after whatever is next on the list when we get rid of those. We’ve seen the orange strips nonsense today, they’re lobbying already on that.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
We’ve had over 20 articles in the last 11 weeks in the papers on their child abuse cover up Turrabear.

The Times, The Record, Tge Scottish Sun, The Sunday Post & Daily Mail all included.
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Only because they couldn't ignore it any longer.and they still set the watered down narrative.when it's the sports pages its like the Celtic view.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
For all those focusing on the unfairness of FARE here is a link where you can report abuse to them;
https://farenet.org/get-involved/report-discrimination/

Bombard them with all the incidents of cel'ic fans being bigoted, not just songs, the effigies, banners, the lot! If we do it en masse then they can't just ignore it, if they do then we go to UEFA again en masse saying that we've reported discrimination to FARE and they have ignored us.
until action is taken against cel'ic isn't a viable response.
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This is probably the most intelligent post I have seen tonight. I left Scotland over 30 years ago and all the songs you are talking about are still dear to my heart, however, times have changed and we must change with them. There are many words I could use in my adopted home,, when I arrived ,which are now banned, so we do not say them, instead we have reversed the situation and have become the morally offended. Let us use our brains, which in my opinion are superior, only because we use them more often, and become the offended. Every time we see, or hear, something we think is offensive we must complain. What we think and what we say can be two different things. As a Final thought 50000 bears screaming WATP can be just as intimidating as Hello hello.
 
g/hillger said:
Only because they couldn't ignore it any longer.and they still set the watered down narrative.when it's the sports pages its like the Celtic view.
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I think they’ve been dragged there in SOME cases GHG.

You can’t say that about The Times.

The Sun has done a straight lift on around 5 of the Times articles but nothing of their own. IM SURE WITH THE NEELY STORY THEY MAY CHANGE TACT knowing them.
 
LJ50 said:
Mate, if you’d told me 20 years ago, as TBB ringed around Ibrox when we went 2 up against Parma, that they’d complain about TBB and be taken so seriously that it would be banned less than 10 years later then I’d have said exactly the same thing to you.

The suggestions I offer have all made the papers. Every last one of them. Their cheerleaders have all tried to paint the claims as facts.

They’ve gone after the easiest targets, I think it’s naive to think that they won’t go after whatever is next on the list when we get rid of those. We’ve seen the orange strips nonsense today, they’re lobbying already on that.
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I truly get where you are coming from but, the difference is there is absolutely not a single word in any of the stuff listed that can cause any prohibition.
Unlike the word “19th Century Terrorist” which can be aimed at an individual or group, and especially aligned with “bastard”, they managed to create an offence.
We all know it’s a charade and salt is rubbed in the wounds when they call themselves 19th Century Terrorist and display banners declaring this but, remember, a black can call another black a “******” without fear of police arrest.
We’ve got to be smarter than we are just now.
We cannot win the TBB battle any more and we can only fight the battles as they come.
Like the orange strip battle that may have started but the fight back was immediate, albeit from an unlikely source.
 
Albertzzz said:
Over the years how many fans have been killed/ stabbed beaten in Italy and Turkey much worse than a song......fact is unless we got someone in the eufa corridor were fucked these corrupt basturds only care about money and palms getting greased
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The racism spewed by Italian and Polish support is repellent yet for some reason doesn't seem to garner the enthusiasm for punishment "19th Century Terrorist" does.
 
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tazzabear said:
I truly get where you are coming from but, the difference is there is absolutely not a single word in any of the stuff listed that can cause any prohibition.
Unlike the word “19th Century Terrorist” which can be aimed at an individual or group, and especially aligned with “bastard”, they managed to create an offence.
We all know it’s a charade and salt is rubbed in the wounds when they call themselves 19th Century Terrorist and display banners declaring this but, remember, a black can call another black a “******” without fear of police arrest.
We’ve got to be smarter than we are just now.
We cannot win the TBB battle any more and we can only fight the battles as they come.
Like the orange strip battle that may have started but the fight back was immediate, albeit from an unlikely source.
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That’s exactly my point mate. There are battles ahead. They’ll come after us for anything that’s can invent an imagined slight from. We’ve lost the argument regards TBB, we’ve been easily out-manoeuvred re the word “19th Century Terrorist”. Trying to re-fight those battles are pointless. We have to get better prepared for the next attacks, whatever they decide to come at us for.

You and I might not see any possible way they can come after us on the Bouncy or WATP or any number of other songs, but make no mistake they’ll be desperately looking find ways to twist anything to come up with another way to get us into trouble.
 
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monkey magic said:
If only it was so easy. Who defines what is sectarianism ? UEFA don't know and rely on a discredited Rangers hating left wing group like FARE to tell them what it is, and we suffer the consequences. And before anyone again says if only we change the songbook, FARE will just move onto other songs. FARE will need to be challenged at UEFA by Rangers. If not, they will never stop coming after us.
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Totally agree here.They will not stop at songs.
Now if we had hung effigies with mentally challenged scarves tied round their necks we would have been fkng crucified from then till kingdom come.
Personally what I want is parity,if that happens then so be it.Until that does happen we are fkd.
 
It’s annoyed me for years that we still sing about bobby sands. It just keeps his memory relevant and let’s face it he certainly isn’t worthy of being kept alive.

It’s all been said. No more F words but we really need to see the fare report, can club 1872 request it?

Can we meet and agree what is acceptable? If we don’t they will forever be moving the goalposts.
 
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