There is no legitimate case for sacking Steven Gerrard

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#1
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.
 
Last edited:

Portrushbear

Well-Known Member
#6
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to here what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.
We as a fan base do not have the patience, the majority would have accepted those outcomes as acceptable at the start of the season

But as always we revert to type and get on the managers back when results aren't great

Yes, there is definite room for improvement and had we converted even half our draws this year we would be top of the league l. We have left a lot of points out there that we should have taken with ease but it's the managers first season, he's had 2 transfer windows and I belive he's improved us significantly. The inconsistencies at present could be put down to the amount of games played and a lack of experience in game management.

If the board back him well in the summer we will push the bheasts right to the very death next year and hopefully get another European run
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#7
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to here what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.
There was no legitimate case for hiring him in the first place.

That is the concerning thing here.
 

Leif Erikson

Well-Known Member
#10
There are plenty on here and on social media calling for his head. It's complete and utter idiocy.

Agree with the OP.

We simply need to add 4 or 5 quality additions in the summer to give the manager a chance of competing for trophies.
Where have you seen this?

I spend more time on here than I care to admit and haven't seen anyone call for his sacking. The OP is countering a nonexistent argument.
 

gers1978

Well-Known Member
#12
The simple fact is we’ve played a ridiculous number of games and don’t have the depth or quality to sustain that all season. Yes, the manager is learning and has made mistakes, but the improvements in us are clear. We’re in mid March and only once all season (nearly 50 games) have we even been behind by more than a goal, let alone lose by more than a goal. That alone is a huge improvement and a base to build on.

Celtic dropping so many points early on gave us all a false hope that we could challenge for the league but realistically we were always gonna fall short of that.

We’re getting there, and Gerrard is the man to take us forward
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
#16
There's been more than a few posters on here doubting his progress this season. The calls for his head have only started and these can quite quickly accelerate-you don't need to be a genius to realise he has to navigate two OF games in competent fashion or the alternative is a lot of anger and recriminations.

The support's mindset is only heading in one direction at the moment and SG requires to deliver some good results and an almost perfect preseason signing strategy or he's in serious trouble.

I don't think it's right I agree with the OP but anyone thinking an indifferent start to next season doesn't lead to the inevitable needs their heads looked.
 

Bruce_Wayne

Well-Known Member
#17
We're building the foundations of a team required to challenge. 1st year is a freebie

Same results in a year's time then you can understand questions being asked.
 

Uncle Albert

Well-Known Member
#18
The OP is a measured, realistic view but I'll be honest I have concerns about him being able to get to the summer.

The team's collective head and confidence is shot and we have 8 difficult fixtures - no saving grace of a couple of gimmes against the weaker sides. Easiest on paper is Motherwell away and they've given us a lot of grief in the last few seasons.

If this run continues the hysteria will just increase and put the board in a really difficult situation.
 

Steve Snedden

Well-Known Member
#20
Even if you believe that SG has been an abject failure ( which I don't), we are going to have to give someone 3 years to build a team.

There is progress. But no silverware to play for and a double digit gap behind the scum is not really acceptable.

Unfortunately the current incumbent is a lightning rod for the last three seasons of failure, probably more.
 
#22
That team selection yesterday should have been a sackable offence of course i say that in jest but that plus plenty’s of other things are extremely worrying if we are honest with ourselves I enjoyed the European games this season but in all honesty it massively hindered us we are no capable of performing on all fronts .
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#24
Genuine concern and valid criticism is one thing, going full on headbanger is quite another.
Absolutely. I've been pretty critical of Gerrard's lack of flexibility with shape and also his inability to get Defoe into the team as well. You can be critical of him but also realise in the grand scheme of things he's making progress and is on track.
 

Steve Snedden

Well-Known Member
#26
The OP is a measured, realistic view but I'll be honest I have concerns about him being able to get to the summer.

The team's collective head and confidence is shot and we have 8 difficult fixtures - no saving grace of a couple of gimmes against the weaker sides. Easiest on paper is Motherwell away and they've given us a lot of grief in the last few seasons.

If this run continues the hysteria will just increase and put the board in a really difficult situation.

Sobering and terrifying in equal measure.

Your posts about the fixture list and the consequences have been jumping out at me all week. There is no legitamate counter-argument, only blind-faith.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#27
The OP is a measured, realistic view but I'll be honest I have concerns about him being able to get to the summer.

The team's collective head and confidence is shot and we have 8 difficult fixtures - no saving grace of a couple of gimmes against the weaker sides. Easiest on paper is Motherwell away and they've given us a lot of grief in the last few seasons.

If this run continues the hysteria will just increase and put the board in a really difficult situation.
The way things have been going recently it's a surprise we actually dug a draw out after going behind yesterday. Normally when we lose the first goal against these teams it's a struggle.

As Dylan mentioned, navigating the last couple of Old Firm 'games are going to be very important in terms of the fans' mindset. In a weird way, I actually am looking forward to them. I don't fear a doing at all, they'll have a go at us and that plays into our hands. We might lose, but you aren't watching it from behind the curtains like the games last season.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#28
Absolutely. I've been pretty critical of Gerrard's lack of flexibility with shape and also his inability to get Defoe into the team as well. You can be critical of him but also realise in the grand scheme of things he's making progress and is on track.
The biggest risk is that we simply don't know whether he can bring us success.

We're taking a risk that he's the man who can take us forward when there's no evidence for us to go on.

He may well be the man - he may not - but to take another colossal risk is so irresponsible and reckless it's painful.
 

omegaman

Well-Known Member
#30
The OP is a measured, realistic view but I'll be honest I have concerns about him being able to get to the summer.

The team's collective head and confidence is shot and we have 8 difficult fixtures - no saving grace of a couple of gimmes against the weaker sides. Easiest on paper is Motherwell away and they've given us a lot of grief in the last few seasons.

If this run continues the hysteria will just increase and put the board in a really difficult situation.
In reality, we could completely implode, lose both games to Celtic and finish third and Gerrard will still be here next season.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#31
I don’t think many want him sacked. I don’t, but I’d prefer people to acknowledge that progress under him hasn’t quite been good enough (unless you just keep comparing him to the two previous failures).

If we’re making the same mistakes next season, that’s when a change of manager will demand serious considerations.
What was your realistic aims for this season and how has he not met them?
 

Cauldwell

Well-Known Member
#32
We now have to endure them having 2 title parties V us, Steven Gerrard WILL be on the receiving end of of sectarianian abuse.I hope he doesnt shrug it off.
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
#34
There may well be rumblings but let's be honest ,tearing it up and starting again at this moment in time shouldn't even be a consideration.

We need to hold our nerve here, he needs to be given the summer window and at least half of next season .

Yes, no one knows how that will pan out but I don't see too many realistic alternatives.
 
Last edited:

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
#35
I think his season has so far been acceptable.
Very good in parts and in others dropping below the standard hoped for (not expected, expectations are a different animal).

However, Steven Gerrard will be his own biggest critic.
Steven Gerrard doesn't need told what standards we are aiming for at Ibrox, because these are the same standards that this man has always aimed for in his own career.
This season will have been a learning curve for Gerrard and he will have faced problems and a football culture that he would never have encountered in England, he will no doubt be turning this over in his mind as we speak.

There is no equivalence with Rodgers coming north of the border, Rodgers was possibly the most financially privileged pampered bankrolled football coach to manage in Scotland over the entirety of our game's existence.
No one else has ever found themselves at a club that carried such a hefty financial advantage over the competition, the main part of which had been destroyed as a force through State induced diminishment.

Gerrard isn't merely trying to bridge the financial gap, he is having to overcome a playing field which has been drastically altered in favour of a club who now control many aspects of the game in Scotland and which has taken control of the narrative within which all other clubs have to strive under and has perverted it to suit their own enablement.


Gerrad has a daunting task, but this season has been no more than a foundation course.
 
Last edited:
#37
Personally I think he has to take 4 out the 6 from the scum. If we get a sore one at the pedo dome then it could be the end but I think we can lift our game and do it .
But he needs a experienced 2nd in command next season to help guide him when it starts to get tough.
 

buc11

Well-Known Member
#39
The biggest risk is that we simply don't know whether he can bring us success.

We're taking a risk that he's the man who can take us forward when there's no evidence for us to go on.

He may well be the man - he may not - but to take another colossal risk is so irresponsible and reckless it's painful.
I'm still at a loss as to why we had Pedro, you'd think after that we would have made the most wise appointment possible.

I like everyone at the time found it exciting, and it did start well. There have been too many heads dropped and nonsense results now though, I'm the same as you I can't predict how this is going to end.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#40
I'm still at a loss as to why we had Pedro, you'd think after that we would have made the most wise appointment possible.

I like everyone at the time found it exciting, and it did start well. There have been too many heads dropped and nonsense results now though, I'm the same as you I can't predict how this is going to end.
Absolutely.

Deep breaths and calm heads should have been the order of the day when appointing in the first place.

We're now being asked to remain level when dealing with the consequences of a reckless appointment in the first place.
 

Thommo2006

Well-Known Member
#41
People who say sack gerrard dont live in the real world lets say we bin him. We then have to pay him and his staff off. Find a new manager who will likely want to bring in Jo's own players so another summer of player turnover.

We have drawn to many games this season tyats been the killer for us. Were 2 or 3 players away from being a decent side but it doesn't happen over night
 
#43
Absolutely. I've been pretty critical of Gerrard's lack of flexibility with shape and also his inability to get Defoe into the team as well. You can be critical of him but also realise in the grand scheme of things he's making progress and is on track.
Minimal progress. Domestically it's been terrible. It's deeper than just being inconsistent.

17 win from 30 league games and absolutely terrible in both of the cups. Yesterday he learned nothing and lined up with exact same way as before. Only reason there were changes was due to injuries and the support getting on Barišić back.

Season's over, nothing to play for and the players and manager couldn't bounce back from midweek defeat - even after the reaction talk. Talk, that's all they have got.

We may well finish in 2nd place, big deal. Kilmarnock and Aberdeen are shite and we are looking likely to finish further behind the bheggars than last season. On top of that there are questions marks over recruitment, mentality, formations, game plan, lack of plan b, inability to iron our weaknesses, predictability in our play, inability to change a game...

You have targets at the start of the season but you cannot predict how it will unfold. Given how it has, it's makes this season even more dull and frustrating.

I have my doubts over both Mark Allen and Steven Gerrard getting it right in the summer, on top of the question marks over Gerrard's managerial skills and ability.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#44
Minimal progress. Domestically it's been terrible. It's deeper than just being inconsistent.

17 win from 30 league games and absolutely terrible in both of the cups. Yesterday he learned nothing and lined up with exact same way as before. Only reason there were changes was due to injuries and the support getting on Barišić back.

Season's over, nothing to play for and the players and manager couldn't bounce back from midweek defeat - even after the reaction talk. Talk, that's all they have got.

We may well finish in 2nd place, big deal. Kilmarnock and Aberdeen are shite and we are looking likely to finish further behind the bheggars than last season. On top of that there are questions marks over recruitment, mentality, formations, game plan, lack of plan b, inability to iron our weaknesses, predictability in our play, inability to change a game...

You have targets at the start of the season but you cannot predict how it will unfold. Given how it has, it's makes this season even more dull and frustrating.

I have my doubts over both Mark Allen and Steven Gerrard getting it right in the summer, on top of the question marks over Gerrard's managerial skills and ability.
Why worry about performances like yesterday's though, mate? For some people that 90 minutes of repetitive, clueless shite was a sign of progress.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#45
I'm still at a loss as to why we had Pedro, you'd think after that we would have made the most wise appointment possible.

I like everyone at the time found it exciting, and it did start well. There have been too many heads dropped and nonsense results now though, I'm the same as you I can't predict how this is going to end.
King has explained his reasoning around appointing Gerrard. We spent 6 months searching and no outstanding candidates with experience were available that got the juices flowing.
 

Uncle Albert

Well-Known Member
#46
The way things have been going recently it's a surprise we actually dug a draw out after going behind yesterday. Normally when we lose the first goal against these teams it's a struggle.

As Dylan mentioned, navigating the last couple of Old Firm 'games are going to be very important in terms of the fans' mindset. In a weird way, I actually am looking forward to them. I don't fear a doing at all, they'll have a go at us and that plays into our hands. We might lose, but you aren't watching it from behind the curtains like the games last season.
Yes but there is a fair chance we could still lose that game and then it's 0 wins from 5, with Hearts and Motherwell to face within the week.

There's a reason why 'at Rangers you are only a few games away from a crisis' is one of those things that people always say.
 

Thesuperger

Well-Known Member
#47
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.
Dont think anyone has called for his sacking?? Some of the performances earlier in the season especially in Europe have been excellent.. however the since the break we have been garbage! I'm putting that down to the players, we simply need better quality in certain areas.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#49
Yes but there is a fair chance we could still lose that game and then it's 0 wins from 5, with Hearts and Motherwell to face within the week.

There's a reason why 'at Rangers you are only a few games away from a crisis' is one of those things that people always say.
Indeed. 0 wins in 5 wouldn't be good enough but again, in the grand scheme of things the club are on target to achieve it's goals from this season outwith winning a domestic cup.

People are nit picking at certain stats to suit their agenda ie how many times have we beaten Killie, Hibs and Aberdeen? That would only be a big problem if we were sitting 3rd or 4th in the league.

Too many of our fans are basing their hissy fits on simple stats and numbers. It's not black and white. We have simply drawn far too many games this season that we should have won. The Tarriers have won their last three league games with injury time winners, a 6 point swing.

The margins are fine.
 
#50
- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

How about winning a trophy?

There are very legitimate cases for sacking the manager. Especially as the p1sh we are being served up becomes more evident.

Nobody is agitating that we do.
 
Top