This mentality nonsense

Jesus Christ. 2 Points behind in December and you’ve chucked it.
Cmon mate, you have to step back from the stats for a second. This has been clearly marked out as a critical month in our season with two big games to start with and how did they go? Bottle jobs both times. Hearts away - another bottle job. When the chips are down they don’t have it.

It might take another turnover of playing staff until we are “back”. That squad won’t win silverware never mind the title
 
I could point towards Morelos' quite incredible performances in Europe and elsewhere in the league and yet again today a powderpuff, unsure and limp contribution.

nobody has dominated celtics defence like Morelos did today in years. Powderpuff and limp are not two words I would use to describe him and you ought to be ashamed of yourself
 
On another day, yes. Another day when there isn't so much at stake, like the post split fixture at Ibrox in May when we murdered them and they were lucky it was only 2-0, but the league was already gone by then.

This club has gone far too long without silverware and the longer it goes on the harder it will be to break that duck.

No.

Today luck just wasn’t on our side! Yes the longer it goes the harder it gets but think of the gap when Gerrard arrived to now - its completely gone.

Of course it’s sore that we didn’t win today but I have more confidence now than I did before the game that the league is coming home.
 
To me, that’s only because we are selective with what a big game is.
In reality, the games against Porto and Feyenoord are every bit as big.
Also, there are situations in games against lesser opposition where, in the circumstances at that time, you wouldn’t be coming out of it with a positive result if you didn't have that extra bit of determination.
For example, losing the late equaliser at Kilmarnock but still getting a winner.
You talk some amount of gumpth btw.
 
I’ll leave you to your honesty mate, I have a different honesty.

Yet but your ‘honesty’ includes lumping in Europa league group games and games against Kilmarnock that blatantly don’t come with the same pressures.

If it makes you feel better though then batter in, I’ll see you here for the same discussion again the next time they make an arse of it in the big moment.
 
It’s only December and in the space of 4 days we have capitulated and lost ground in the league and lost the first cup final and have a very hard month to come.

Being 2 points behind after a draw at Pittodrie and being cheated out of a cup final isn’t capitulation ffs.

Why watch if you’ve already given up hope.
 
Just want to make sure I'm understanding you:
  • 'Quality' is only quality if it pertains to shots – passing, tackling, defending, pressing, dribbling etc. don't count as 'quality'.
  • A goal conceded from a cross in which 3 Celtc players were handed a 2-yard handicap was a defensive howler.
  • Us dominating almost an entire 90 mins and winning pretty much all of our individual battles resulting in 10 more corners, 11 more shots and 6 more shots on target (reducing them to zero legitimate shots on target for an entire 90) and you're not convinced that was down to our good play?

Have you just started watching football recently?

I never said that quality only pertains to shots; I generally thought Celtic were slow and sluggish in the first half (which I was I was referring to, as well you know) and made a lot of unforced errors. I'm possibly being a bit harsh on the players but I'm not sure you'd give Hamilton too much credit for our ponderous first half performance there a couple of weeks ago, for example.

Yeah, the goal is still a howler. Watching it again you might be persuaded that the defence was playing offside but not one of them appeal it and watching it in slow motion right now I'm afraid your interpretation of 2 yards is way out; the gap between the players actually gets bigger after the ball is kicked. It's still horrendous.

Throw statistics at me all you like (possession was actually 50-50, by the way). I could show you stuff where Warburton's team walked all over others and came away with nothing or where Smith's two teams were under the cosh for most of the game and came away with a result. Today we fluffed our lines again.
 
Cmon mate, you have to step back from the stats for a second. This has been clearly marked out as a critical month in our season with two big games to start with and how did they go? Bottle jobs both times. Hearts away - another bottle job. When the chips are down they don’t have it.

It might take another turnover of playing staff until we are “back”. That squad won’t win silverware never mind the title

Give up on football before you hate yourself to death
 
nobody has dominated celtics defence like Morelos did today in years. Powderpuff and limp are not two words I would use to describe him and you ought to be ashamed of yourself

They're not two words I'd use to describe him but I'd use it to describe his performance today, which is completely different. His performance against them in the 1-0 game at Ibrox was also far superior.
 
Believe whatever you want mate. If it gives you hope then go for it, but even the most optimistic bears can see how this season is going to pan out
Coward. We just dominated them from start to finish, they’ve snuck an offside goal and you’ve thrown in the towel.

Embarrassing
 
They're not two words I'd use to describe him but I'd use it to describe his performance today, which is completely different. His performance against them in the 1-0 game at Ibrox was also far superior.
You’re analysis is that of a blind man. He was excellent today. Every time he got the ball he caused them bother. He hit the target with most of his shots, low and hard. I can’t think of anyone who’s had that many chances against Celtic in recent years. The keeper dug them out with some great saves

He should have scored no doubt, but that was his only failing and your description is complete and utter nonsense
 
All true, but an Old Firm final and the first chance of domestic silverware represents an entirely different challenge and set of pressures that current team currently don't seem capable of surmounting.

I could point towards Morelos' quite incredible performances in Europe and elsewhere in the league and yet again today a powderpuff, unsure and limp contribution.

Are you inferring that there is a pattern here?

Today is the only sample we have have of our seemingly being ‘incapable of surmounting’ and we fecking battered them. If we’d been better with our options around their goal and if their keeper had only played really well then we’d have crucified them.

If we go into the next game with a similar set-up, attitude and mindset as we did today and use our frustration and anger from today’s match to our advantage then I expect to beat them comfortably.
 
I still fail to see how anyone can put games in europe in the same bracket as today.

Barely anyone batted an eyelid when we were put out of the group stages last season.

Says it all really
 
I’m fed up reading excuses, the simple facts are that teams that are good enough win trophies......we aren’t good enough defensively and that’s just fact. I don’t look at some of of players and think they are cup winning or league winning players. I include Goldson and Tav not to mention Barker nor Ojo......the just don’t have the hallmark of league winning Rangers players of before.
 
You’re analysis is that of a blind man. He was excellent today. Every time he got the ball he caused them bother. He hit the target with most of his shots, low and hard. I can’t think of anyone who’s had that many chances against Celtic in recent years. The keeper dug them out with some great saves

He should have scored no doubt, but that was his only failing and your description is complete and utter nonsense

Sorry, but any keeper saves the first one; he does well for the second one by luring in the Celtic defender but from that angle he's just not scoring; and for the third he's just not clinical enough - he actually believes he's offside.

Morelos has been excellent this season - it's a word I'd use to describe some of these games. But his performance was nothing like the sorts we've seen so far this year.
 
Are you inferring that there is a pattern here?

Today is the only sample we have have of our seemingly being ‘incapable of surmounting’ and we fecking battered them. If we’d been better with our options around their goal and if their keeper had only played really well then we’d have crucified them.

If we go into the next game with a similar set-up, attitude and mindset as we did today and use our frustration and anger from today’s match to our advantage then I expect to beat them comfortably.
If
 
Sorry, but any keeper saves the first one; he does well for the second one by luring in the Celtic defender but from that angle he's just not scoring; and for the third he's just not clinical enough - he actually believes he's offside.

Morelos has been excellent this season - it's a word I'd use to describe some of these games. But his performance was nothing like the sorts we've seen so far this year.
Limp?
Powderpuff?

Explain these descriptions of Morelos performance to me?
 
We are not being allowed to compete. We are being cheated pure and simple. If you can't see this then please open yer fucking eyes
 
Are you inferring that there is a pattern here?

Today is the only sample we have have of our seemingly being ‘incapable of surmounting’ and we fecking battered them. If we’d been better with our options around their goal and if their keeper had only played really well then we’d have crucified them.

If we go into the next game with a similar set-up, attitude and mindset as we did today and use our frustration and anger from today’s match to our advantage then I expect to beat them comfortably.

This team have gone top a few times and blown it almost immediately after.

We blew our momentum against Killie after finally beating Celtic at Ibrox.

We've battered Celtic at home and at the Piggery and came away with nothing.

We went to Aberdeen during the week and let slip two goals, as we did in Feyenoord and Young Boys.

We went out of the League Cup to Aberdeen.

We blew chances to quality with a lack of quality against Vienna and Moscow.

Plenty of evidence that when the chips are down there's a problem there.
 
Today our mentality was very strong.

It was a lack of quality that done for us, and yes there was a huge lack of quality in our finishing, alongside some bad luck
 
We can't really do anything else other than plug away. We lost today because the team we faced in today's match had won 9 trophies on the spin with little resistance. You don't overhaul a run like that easily. We did everything right today and it took an offside goal to separate both sides.

We gonna rip it up and start again? Sack the manager? Bring back Walter Smith? Await investment from Billionaires? I don't understand the incessant need to hark back to mentality. We won't be winners until we win something but we just so happen to be competing against serial winners. It's a bastard of a predicament to be in. It's not like they've fucked a tournament off in the past 3 seasons. So ultimately we just need to keep going.
 
The thread is about our mentality. IMO today’s outcome was nothing to do with mentality. We totally outplayed them but were unable to capitalise down to some bad decisions on our part, some bad luck, a keeper playing on a different planet and some questionable decisions from the officials.

It certainly wasn’t down to us not turning up.
Bad decisions and mentality. I wonder of they're related in any way.
 
This team have gone top a few times and blown it almost immediately after.

We blew our momentum against Killie after finally beating Celtic at Ibrox.

We've battered Celtic at home and at the Piggery and came away with nothing.

We went to Aberdeen during the week and let slip two goals, as we did in Feyenoord and Young Boys.

We went out of the League Cup to Aberdeen.

We blew chances to quality with a lack of quality against Vienna and Moscow.

Plenty of evidence that when the chips are down there's a problem there.

I was responding to your post which was specific to the cup final.

I accept that we have had some results but that’s been down to inconsistent play and I think it’s wrong to include Europe in your analysis. In Europe we are generally up against better teams so you lose some.

Before Gerrard came in we were in total collapse. Compare that to where we are now.

For all the matches where you point out we blobbed, I can think of others where we’ve dug deep and done well, some of them in Europe.
 
I was responding to your post which was specific to the cup final.

I accept that we have had some results but that’s been down to inconsistent play and I think it’s wrong to include Europe in your analysis. In Europe we are generally up against better teams so you lose some.

Before Gerrard came in we were in total collapse. Compare that to where we are now.

For all the matches where you point out we blobbed, I can think of others where we’ve dug deep and done well, some of them in Europe.

Okay, but the players in this team are part of a collective that seem to routinely fail when the chips are down. What are our biggest domestic victories so far? Beating Celtic twice last season?
 
We are not being allowed to compete. We are being cheated pure and simple. If you can't see this then please open yer fucking eyes
Collum was generally a disgrace but they did get a man sent off and we got a penalty and we couldn't capitalise on it so I can't buy the excuse we aren't allowed to compete, we never took our chances despite competing and dominating the majority of the game
 
Their keeper today done what Andy goram done to them on a regular basis.

Much as I hate to say it but we need a strong character like Scott brown even though he done feck all today,but he has a presence in their team when things are not going well.

Rangers need some leaders on that park,something we're really lacking at the moment.
 
Okay, but the players in this team are part of a collective that seem to routinely fail when the chips are down. What are our biggest domestic victories so far? Beating Celtic twice last season?

We have improved in both seasons under Gerrard and I think we will continue to do so. Today was a horror show because we dominated and for whatever reason failed to come out on top. A proverbial sickener.

But what we did prove today is that we are certainly capable of taking them. If we had just been outplayed by a better team I might go along with the mentality/bottle theories but the fact is we didn’t. We mustn’t let today put us off the mission. We’ve a great chance to go thru to the UEFA knock outs and we are handily placed in the league. There is also another cup to play for. We can and will be winners.
 
ffs a winning mentality doesn’t mean you win every game! When Souness built his Rangers side he talked about players with a winning mentality, Butcher, Gough, Hateley, Wilkins etc. His Rangers side and Fergies Man Utd sides had a mental toughness needed when things go against you, when you go a goal down, a man down etc.

What does it mean? The common theme here is they are all exceptional players. Nothing to do with mentality. Everything to do with ability. How do you measure mentality? You can't, it's immeasurable. It's a total false narrative. Competitive professional footballers don't just give up because they go a goal down. Not at this level. 'Mentality' doesn't win football matches, skill & ability does.
 
What does it mean? The common theme here is they are all exceptional players. Nothing to do with mentality. Everything to do with ability. How do you measure mentality? You can't, it's immeasurable. It's a total false narrative. Competitive professional footballers don't just give up because they go a goal down. Not at this level. 'Mentality' doesn't win football matches, skill & ability does.

Or doesn’t though, if it did you’d never get major upsets in football. Sometimes teams want it more, sometimes other teams are better at holding their nerve.
 
Or doesn’t though, if it did you’d never get major upsets in football. Sometimes teams want it more, sometimes other teams are better at holding their nerve.

You are being sucked in by the narrative. It's not as simple as team A wanting it more or holding their nerve. The chances are that is not why they won the game. It is far more likely they won because of skill tactics, organisation, a bit of luck.. a whole host of other factors. You hear the phrase all the time, but the reality it has little to no relevance.

More often than not, skill and ability will win you football matches. Huge upsets in particular tend to be a product of variance.
 
You are being sucked in by the narrative. It's not as simple as team A wanting it more or holding their nerve. The chances are that is not why they won the game. It is far more likely they won because of skill tactics, organisation, a bit of luck.. a whole host of other factors. You hear the phrase all the time, but the reality it has little to no relevance.

More often than not, skill and ability will win you football matches. Huge upsets in particular tend to be a product of variance.
Tell that to Walter's teams.

Its not a game of poker.

Would say mentality is a skill in itself and thee defining thing to separate closely matched teams.
 
ram it up your arse. Its an easy excuse

If we had a weak mentality we don't come back from defeat in Porto and Feyenoord.

we don't come back from a goal down v Motherwell

we don't Score late on v St Mirren

we don't come back from a first half pounding v porto at Ibrox to win.

Celtic are a very good team . As are we. We have come a long way in a short period and were only beaten today by a terrible decision by the officials.

We are playing under a born winner in Gerrard, Not Mark do plan a better warburton.

two years ago we were getting beat 3-1 at home to St Johnstone. that's weak mantaility.

its a process and we will catch them. we have our faults but mentality isn't one of them.
Agree - mentally weak is the 2 performances at the end of Murtys time or the McDowall semi when we didn’t lay a glove on then.

Today was a freak result and the fact some Rangers fans are taking their line from Chris fucking Sutton tells you everything about them
 
Tell that to Walter's teams.

Its not a game of poker.

Would say mentality is a skill in itself and thee defining thing to separate closely matched teams.

How do you measure it? How do you sign a player with the right mentality? Give them a MRI scan of the brain? Do you realise how dumb this narrative is?

Walter knew how to set up a team and had good players. He managed to beat teams who probably man for man had better players than us with a gameplan and tactics. There are so many relevant factors that decide an outcome. Something that is immeasurable is right at the bottom of the relevance list.

Honestly, it's a nonsensical argument.
 
Anybody saying the team doesn't have the mentality to win.....doesn't have the mentality to be a Rangers fan
 
Is that right ?

Go ask a buffalo bills fan if mindset and mentality have nothing to do with it .

I’m not saying we lost today because of it - but it does count in sports at top level . 100%

Angone who knows anything about sports knows this .

Honestly, it is not relevant. Not even close. You can have the strongest mindset in the world but if you do not have the skill and ability you will get nowhere. There are so many other relevant factors that decide an outcome of a football match.
 
You are being sucked in by the narrative. It's not as simple as team A wanting it more or holding their nerve. The chances are that is not why they won the game. It is far more likely they won because of skill tactics, organisation, a bit of luck.. a whole host of other factors. You hear the phrase all the time, but the reality it has little to no relevance.

More often than not, skill and ability will win you football matches. Huge upsets in particular tend to be a product of variance.

I’m being suckered in by the clear trend that shows that all too often we falter in high pressure games. Even when it’s against sides with less ability ( see last season cup semi finals, see Wednesday).

You’re ignoring the reality mate, a squads mentality and how they cope with high pressure situations has a huge bearing on results. I have no idea why people are determined to kid themselves otherwise. We missed the penalty and suddenly our ability or tactics changed? Nah you could visibly see the players looked absolutely dejected and had just lost the spark and belief.
 
Honestly, it is not relevant. Not even close. You can have the strongest mindset in the world but if you do not have the skill and ability you will get nowhere. There are so many other relevant factors that decide an outcome of a football match.

Every top level athlete in the world will tell you that without a strong mindset and will to win , you will go nowhere . You need ability AND a winning mentality . I believe Gerrard and the players do have it . Sometimes , like today , you throw everything into it and it isn’t your day . As Gerrard said after the game - it will come .
 
I’m being suckered in by the clear trend that shows that all too often we falter in high pressure games. Even when it’s against sides with less ability ( see last season cup semi finals, see Wednesday).

You’re ignoring the reality mate, a squads mentality and how they cope with high pressure situations has a huge bearing on results. I have no idea why people are determined to kid themselves otherwise. We missed the penalty and suddenly our ability or tactics changed? Nah you could visibly see the players looked absolutely dejected and had just lost the spark and belief.

Every top level athlete in the world will tell you that without a strong mindset and will to win , you will go nowhere . You need ability AND a winning mentality . I believe Gerrard and the players do have it . Sometimes , like today , you throw everything into it and it isn’t your day . As Gerrard said after the game - it will come .

You are both putting emphasis on an invisible, immeasurable narrative. It's nonsensical. Every professional competitor wants to win. There has to be a winner and a loser. The winner doesn't simply win because of some immeasurable mental brainwave. If it was such a huge factor why do Celtic lose games? They would win every game because their 'winning mentality' would prevent them losing games. There is no such thing. More often than not skill and ability win football matches along with many other factors relating to the game.

Signing better players is the only way to make a tangible difference.
 
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