This so called ropey defence

Govanfrnt

Well-Known Member
This so called ropey defence has the most shut outs in Scottish top flight so let's give them a break here and have a bit of perspective.

We've played 49 and have 26 clean sheets - 53%
Celtic have played 47 games and have 20 clean sheets - 43%

The problem we have is not the defence, albeit they've had a few below par performances of late, it's that since Celtic returned from Dubai they have

1. Changed to a more attack minded formation, which has subsequently led to them scoring 33 goals in 2020 to our 19
2. And off-field they went after the SFAs disciplinary set up following their 1st citing in years

We on the other hand came back with the same formation and any pitiful efforts to take on SFA fell on deaf ears

We do have an alternative formation and it has brought us success in the last 3 games whereby in the 80mins we've had 2 up top we have scored 6 and conceded 0.
Unfortuately the formation our management team choose to persist with played it's part in the remaining 190mins of the 3 games where we scored just once and conceded 5!

At the start id mentioned celtics concerted attack on the SFA and It's worth mentioning that In Celtic's last 4 home league games they've had 4 players sent off. The last player to be sent off at Ibrox was in September.

We have watched Griffiths, Brown, Jullien, Christie and bolingoli avoid what should have been red cards and in other games concerning us we have seen Guthrie, Power and cosgrove also avoid being sent off.

We have had 4 goals disallowed in 2weeks (2 of them perfectly fine goals) 2 for handball, 2 offside however no such calls were made on 3 goals that went against us at critical times vs killie and Celtic in recent months

We recently had a stonewall penalty shout turned down because the ref claimed the wind to blame and only a few months back we were awarded a free kick for a foul that took place inside the box.

The 'referee mistakes' i refer to have cost us a league cup and at least 5 points and I cant think of one incident that has gone against Celtic in that time so how have our board reacted to that. How would celtic react if shoe was on rhr other foot?

Lastly this Celtic team started with scott brown 11 years ago then with rogic a few years later. They have spent £100m since our demotion in 2012 and for years were given a free run at securing titles and adopting that winners attitude we seem to lack.
In contrast, Gerrard has had 15months and a fraction of the money Celtic have had and was up until Jan 2020 doing a sensational job both in the league and on the european stage.

To summarise, We have a young management team and playing squad who are majorly up against it, they have not been given the time and money afforded to our rivals and they are self destructing under the extreme pressure we're putting them under because of this 9/10 in a row talk

Secondly we have a board that are far less effective in taking on the inept officiating

Some may not want to hear it but we fans need to ease off players and management and allow them a bit more time to get it right and off field we need a board that need to step up to the plate because at this time its us against the world
 
A lot of the shut outs have been due to the goalkeeping performances. Every team gets chances against us mostly due to defenders mistakes. Thank goodness we have the top goalkeeper in the league.
 
When we do condede it feels like a total calamity of a defensive mistake that get worse each time it happens and it always seems to be game defining goals.
 
Our problem is not in defence.
It's actually one of our biggest problems, just not in the way people think.

It offers us no penetration, outwith Goldson's long diagonal all our defence does is pass it sideways and backwards. Katic in particular is useless in possession.

Helander was a breath of fresh air, he makes forward runs quite often. Without him we struggle
 
It's actually one of our biggest problems, just not in the way people think.

It offers us no penetration, outwith Goldson's long diagonal all our defence does is pass it sideways and backwards. Katic in particular is useless in possession.

Helander was a breath of fresh air, he makes forward runs quite often. Without him we struggle
That's an interesting observation and not one I've not thought about. I did hear something similar on H&H last night. Does it make that much difference in regards to the midfield though?
 
We might not have conceded that many goals. The ones we have conceded have cost us dearly and are usually the result of stupid mistakes that simply shouldn't be happening.

I think in that instance and again, the fact we're 12 points behind the tims because of stupid mistakes renders these stats pointless I'm afraid.
 
It's actually one of our biggest problems, just not in the way people think.

It offers us no penetration, outwith Goldson's long diagonal all our defence does is pass it sideways and backwards. Katic in particular is useless in possession.

Helander was a breath of fresh air, he makes forward runs quite often. Without him we struggle
Because we rely on two centre backs to make the forward play, which they can't do.
 
That's an interesting observation and not one I've not thought about. I did hear something similar on H&H last night. Does it make that much difference in regards to the midfield though?
It makes a huge difference, it's the main reason Celtic can bury teams and we can't.
 
It makes a huge difference, it's the main reason Celtic can bury teams and we can't.
My point is, though, what's the difference between Jack, Davis, or Kamara having the ball, and Helander having it?
 
It's actually one of our biggest problems, just not in the way people think.

It offers us no penetration, outwith Goldson's long diagonal all our defence does is pass it sideways and backwards. Katic in particular is useless in possession.

Helander was a breath of fresh air, he makes forward runs quite often. Without him we struggle
The worry for me is some of Helander's positional play and decision making was quite poor
 
The centre backs have more players infront of them to pick out and more space to run into
And I suppose we're not inviting so much pressure onto our defence. Interesting post, and it was an interesting point on the Podcast as well.
 
The worry for me is some of Helander's positional play and decision making was quite poor
Helander's positional sense is easily the best aspect of his game though mate, look how he dealt with Marega if you want an example.

If you're thinking about that night in Livingston, it was his first time playing on a pitch with a totally unnatural bounce, Jullien at Celtic had a similar game on it first time around
 
A well thought out and written post OP. I think Sunday was the first time this season we have conceded from a corner kick as well. Our form will return and hopefully soon.
 
A lot of the shut outs have been due to the goalkeeping performances. Every team gets chances against us mostly due to defenders mistakes. Thank goodness we have the top goalkeeper in the league.

Is that not football in a nutshell?

Last I checked Walter smiths teams conceded goals

Every team does, and keepers make saves, that's what they are there for

It's no shock that since Alfies suspension and his poor form our form has dipped with it dramatically

We have been faltering from. Middle to front every bit as much as at the back, we had 20+ attempts on goal on Sunday, poor finishing is costing us every bit as much as defensive mistakes
 
My point is, though, what's the difference between Jack, Davis, or Kamara having the ball, and Helander having it?

Because it squeezes the entire team up the park and instead of the midfielder getting the ball on the halfway line they get in maybe 25 yards from goal. It unsettled defences and makes it's easier to break the two defensive lines.
 
Our problem post break is our strikers have scored 3 league goals between them. Theirs have got 11.

Do you think if Morelos also had 7 league goals like Edouard has in this period we would have dropped so many points? No chance. Facts are his dive at parkhead has destroyed our season. Led to him not playing for 5 weeks or something, losing his sharpness, causing defoe to play too many games and him getting injured.

Amazing how that second of madness has impacted us so much
 
Because it squeezes the entire team up the park and instead of the midfielder getting the ball on the halfway line they get in maybe 25 yards from goal. It unsettled defences and makes it's easier to break the two defensive lines.
Cheers for that; I was genuinely interested and it's worth thinking about.
 
The reason the defence is being called ropey is quite simple.
When they make an individual mistake, it results in a goal every single time, we rarely recover from the schoolboy errors.
A defender could be playing ok, then the brain fart, invariably it costs points.
 
Stats are all good and well but they can be deceiving and they are here we are shaky and have some real bad defensive spells in games and have gotten away with some shocking set plays defending all season. We look so poor at defending set plays and it’s been sheer luck we haven’t conceded more from them. Free headers time after time.
 
My point is, though, what's the difference between Jack, Davis, or Kamara having the ball, and Helander having it?

If a midfielder is having to drop deep to pick up the ball then there's one less player ahead of him he could make the pass to than if it was a centre back.

Helander gave us the best balance to the side and was very effective at making us play further up the pitch allowing us to break lines more easily.

Edit: sorry mate didn't mean to answer an already answred question just seen that.
 
Buff and Kamberi up top would absolutely stop us losing in this league. We or "Them" do not need 1 striker only, 2 will destroy teams that sit in particularly if they are both aggressive and strong. "Them" have gone 2 up top and can't stop scoring and blown us out of the water and we persist with 4-3-3 (and only one out of the three scores and when he loses form we are devoid of ideas) or 4-3-2-1. When we have played 2 up top everything changes. It does make one think how the coaching team don't see this.

Then again 4-3-3 is the Liverpool way and they are just trying to fine tune it up here before they head back down there which is a detriment to our club i.m.o
 
It goes beyond our defence.

Theres too much going wrong that's what's making it's all into such a big deal.

Nearly every player is utter shite just now and have been since we beat the scum.

There doesnt seem to be an answer and that annoys people

Management keep playing 1 upfront even against the crap in the league. That winds people up.

Subs seem an after thought to the management and that annoys people

Last minute draws/loses that annoys people.
 
Your midfield 3 can then be 20 yards further up, breaking lines and penetrating opposition
If a midfielder is having to drop deep to pick up the ball then there's one less player ahead of him he could make the pass to than if it was a centre back.

Helander gave us the best balance to the side and was very effective at making us play further up the pitch allowing us to break lines more easily.

Edit: sorry mate didn't mean to answer an already answred question just seen that.
These are fairly good points, and when you consider it then it makes a great deal of sense.
 
If a midfielder is having to drop deep to pick up the ball then there's one less player ahead of him he could make the pass to than if it was a centre back.

Helander gave us the best balance to the side and was very effective at making us play further up the pitch allowing us to break lines more easily.

Edit: sorry mate didn't mean to answer an already answred question just seen that.
Helander also gave Barasic the platform to become the beast he currently is. The balance to our side was so much better
 
The whole team are low on confidence and making mistakes at the same time - whether it's Kanara turning into trouble consistently, Kent not getting by a man, Morelos missing chances, Tav hitting the first man with crosses or the defensive errors leading to goals.

People have already highlighted, these have happened at different points all season but when you are scoring 3 or 4 per game you still win and it doesn't matter. They now seen to be happening all at once and when you draw or lose it gets magnified.

I keep hoping the next game will be the turning point - surely if we get through tomorrow...
 
Helander also gave Barasic the platform to become the beast he currently is. The balance to our side was so much better
People underestimate the importance of having a left footed centre half. Normally people who haven't played the game right enough.
 
The Katic/Goldson partnership has performed very well in the past. They, like a number of our players, are simply out of form. Too many are below par at the same time which combined with injury and suspension has done for us - and that is notwithstanding any managerial mistakes.

Add in clearly unfair refereeing and we've had a perfect storm of things going against us.

The absolute certainty is that some, if not all of these things will improve and results will be better because of that. Unfortunately, that is now too late for a tilt at this year's title.
 
We might not have conceded that many goals. The ones we have conceded have cost us dearly and are usually the result of stupid mistakes that simply shouldn't be happening.

I think in that instance and again, the fact we're 12 points behind the tims because of stupid mistakes renders these stats pointless I'm afraid.

I'd add into it blatant cheating has rob us of at least 7 points also.

So the point re 12 points can be flawed too.

In reality we should be 5 behind with a game in hand.

People can say all the want about poor performances but what I say re corrupt refereeing is 100% correct.
 
I think we lack communication and intelligence at the back.

McGregor is complaint in this also, you can clearly see that he does not provide the two centre-back's with the correct information.

The amount of times when all-out confusion engulfs the three is insane, nobody knows whether they are coming or going.
 
Well said OP. In the last two years the dark side has at least had a challenge (which they don’t like). In the years before that the dross of Aberdeen etc just laid down. We don’t do second unlike said dross hence the current outcry. Small margins have seen them still have success. Our time is coming again - hopefully very soon.
 
I'd add into it blatant cheating has rob us of at least 7 points also.

So the point re 12 points can be flawed too.

In reality we should be 5 behind with a game in hand.

People can say all the want about poor performances but what I say re corrupt refereeing is 100% correct.
It is without a doubt. However, we could and should be smashing these teams. We are letting ourselves down as well by the poor defending and the lack of scoring. We have a team capable of absolutely pummelling most of these teams in the Premiership. Instead we end up on the back foot all too often to teams that get slaughtered by most others. Sure, the ref decisions are a pain in the arse and a disgrace on too many occasions but all too often we look weak.
 
The problem we have is not the defence, albeit they've had a few below par performances of late, it's that since Celtic returned from Dubai they have

1. Changed to a more attack minded formation, which has subsequently led to them scoring 33 goals in 2020 to our 19
2. And off-field they went after the SFAs disciplinary set up following their 1st citing in years

I am utterly lost as to how Celtic's form - undoubtedly subject to a huge mental boost due to Rangers form - has absolutely anything to do with the Gers dropping 8 points from a winning position since the later part of January... And in the process giving away a barrowload of goals against the absolute fu*king diddies of the SPFL.
 
A lot of the shut outs have been due to the goalkeeping performances. Every team gets chances against us mostly due to defenders mistakes. Thank goodness we have the top goalkeeper in the league.

That Zander Clark was shite on Sunday!! Forster v us, the last time I checked the goalkeeper was part of the defence.
 
Stats are all good and well but they can be deceiving and they are here we are shaky and have some real bad defensive spells in games and have gotten away with some shocking set plays defending all season. We look so poor at defending set plays and it’s been sheer luck we haven’t conceded more from them. Free headers time after time.
Clean sheets aren't a stat they're a fact. Why are you not highlighting how lucky St J were on Sunday - doesn't fit your negative agenda?
 
Our problem post break is our strikers have scored 3 league goals between them. Theirs have got 11.

Do you think if Morelos also had 7 league goals like Edouard has in this period we would have dropped so many points? No chance. Facts are his dive at parkhead has destroyed our season. Led to him not playing for 5 weeks or something, losing his sharpness, causing defoe to play too many games and him getting injured.

Amazing how that second of madness has impacted us so much
Worrying thing about Morelos for me is that he still hasn't learnt. After being harshly booked against Braga, he took a dive a couple of times near the end of the second half in the right wing area and could have been sent off.

Blaming Morelos for everything including Defoe's injury is too much though.

Think Alfie was injured during the break so added up to a fair amount of time off. He looks a bit heavier after that enforced layoff but would expect the trainers to be monitoring that closely and trying to get the weight down a bit without over-training him.

Could also say that he has had a couple of goals wrongly disallowed since coming back.
 
Clean sheets aren't a stat they're a fact. Why are you not highlighting how lucky St J were on Sunday - doesn't fit your negative agenda?

They weren’t lucky though were they they knew how to hurt us and we played into their hands. I don’t have a negative agenda it’s just unlike you I’m not putting my hands across my eyes and saying all’s good when it clearly isn’t.

The clean sheet is the stat that’s a fact lol

Any news on Shinnie?
 
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