This wallop about us "hating Ange"

Takes a bit of a doing run this article in the Guardian.


Ange Postecoglou’s triumphant sacking holds the key to modern football
Jonathan Liew

The Australian’s fluctuating fortunes at Spurs expose how much the game has become an act of persuasion

Tue 10 Jun 2025 16.48 BST

Enjoy your launch. And for Ange Postecoglou, who always bristled at the idea that his wealth of coaching experience had somehow been earned in inferior competitions, perhaps his departure from Tottenham really can be a kind of springboard: to one of these prestigious, equally demanding leagues he keeps talking about. Maybe the struggling Gamba Osaka. Perth Glory could well have a vacancy soon. Motherwell are still looking. A step down? That’s just your old-world, Eurocentric, Prem-brained snobbery showing right through there, mate.


And so to Postecoglou’s many rhetorical elisions can be added another: the triumphant sacking. Perhaps it was only in this universe – the post-truth universe – that such a feat was even conceivable. Along with the Europa League trophy he so stunningly spirited to north London, this may turn out to be the defining legacy of the Postecoglou interregnum. There have been better Premier League managers. There have been more charming and more entertaining Premier League managers. But there may never have been a manager better at defining his own terms of achievement; a managerial reign so evidently built upon a towering silo of nuclear-strength bullshit.


From the very start, Angeball constructed its own bespoke logic as it went along. The journey matters more than the destination. There is a process, and we stick to it. There are principles, and however tough things get, you never deviate from or compromise on them. “Even if we go down to five men, we will have a go,” he said after his nine men were defeated by Chelsea in November 2023. The idea of Champions League qualification as a goal in its own right, unaccompanied by broader progress: “meaningless”, as he put it in March 2024.


In January 2024 he rejected the idea that a single trophy could ever constitute satisfaction or atone for mediocrity elsewhere (“You can’t just sit back and say: ‘I’ve just delivered a trophy, shouldn’t I have some latitude to not be successful?’”). In October 2024 he insisted that Tottenham’s league performance should be regarded as the “most meaningful” measure of his side’s progress.

Ange Postecoglou 2023-24: meet Ange Postecoglou 2025. The coach who promised to attack in all circumstances, who disdained the transformative effect of a single trophy, has just won a trophy with the lowest possession recorded in a European final because sometimes – as he put it in Bilbao – “you have to change your approach”. A coach who urged us to judge him on the league now no longer judges himself on the league.


A coach who blames Tottenham’s abject league performance on a freak injury crisis also takes no responsibility for that injury crisis, for a style of play in which Tottenham comfortably spend more time in high-intensity sprints than any other Premier League team. A coach who claims he takes no notice of what is said and written about him has spent a suspiciously high proportion of this season reacting to things that have been said and written about him.


None of this is a character judgment or smoking gun in its own right. Changing your mind when the facts change: this is, in fact, entirely normal and rational behaviour. Hypocrisy is what makes us human. Go back through everything I’ve written about Postecoglou over the last two years and I’m sure you’ll find it riddled with compromising contradictions. For what it’s worth, I think the decision to sack Postecoglou now is a big error on Daniel Levy’s part. At a time when Spurs are undergoing all shades of upheaval off the pitch, trying to bolster an underpowered squad, a managerial search and a vibe shift is the last thing they need.


Beyond this there is an enduring fascination to Postecoglou, the animal magnetism of the true ideologue. He came to the Premier League with no great reputation or playing record behind him. Tactically, he offered little groundbreaking or novel beyond a hard-running, hard-chasing dogma in which the only solution to every problem is to believe harder in the dogma. The dogma will win your duels. It will head away set pieces for you. And if it doesn’t, it was ultimately your fault for not believing sufficiently in the dogma. In an important sense Postecoglou marked a continuation of the Mourinho-Conte axis: the latest in a series of coaches convinced that their own principles were stronger and worthier than those of the club, determined to prove to the world that Tottenham was terminally sick, yet they alone had the cure.


All of a sudden, one February morning, the league is gone; survival secure. The new dogma is defending like hell against continental Europeans on a Thursday. In fact, scratch that: this was always the dogma. There was no old dogma. This was what you were trying to build all along. Of course this has always been Postecoglou’s real superpower: the cult of personality, the ability to render words convincingly true simply by emitting them from your mouth, to build castles and citadels of bullshit, an apparatus of demagoguery so potent and alluring that it supplants all previous logic.

Which – and no moral judgments here – is quite interesting, right? A 57-year-old Australian bullshits his way into a Premier League job, to spectacular away wins at Manchester City and Manchester United, to some of the most entertaining football ever seen from a Tottenham team in my lifetime. He convinces players to run themselves past the point of wellness. He convinces them to stick together amid a frightening assemblage of centrifugal forces. He convinces a significant part of the English footballing public that league tables are a form of fraud. And finally to a European title.

Plot twist: the bullshit works. This isn’t a cheap con job. This is talent, as surely as substitutions or being able to put on a small-sided coaching session is talent. And what it exposes – perhaps “indicates” is a better word – is how much of modern football is essentially an act of persuasion. Agents bullshit. So do analysts and marketers and journalists. An entire industry built on pure narrative skill, the ability to make things up on the fly and bring people with you. What matters is not what you say, but the conviction with which you believe it to be true at the time.

And so the Postecoglou who declared at Celtic that he was “exactly where I want to be” now seeks another fresh start. Perhaps a sideways move to another Premier League club, perhaps even a step up in class to the Greek Super League, the Korean K League, the League of Ireland. This part will not be a problem. Football has no shortage of soiled dreamers, clubs who missed the gold rush, fans whose only real desire is to feel something again. Marseille, Roma, Benfica, Schalke, West Ham. Leeds sacking Daniel Farke in November and going all in on Angeball feels like a perfect fit.


There is of course an irony here. In his meticulously cultivated personal branding, Postecoglou often likes to paint himself as a throwback, an outsider, a counter-culturalist, the grizzled underdog. But in his reliance on patter and persuasion, bluster and bluff, he is in fact a very modern footballing phenomenon. This is Ange’s world now, and we’re all bullshitting in it.
He is a mumbling, arrogant, fat Aussie c*nt.
 
Takes a bit of a doing run this article in the Guardian.


Ange Postecoglou’s triumphant sacking holds the key to modern football
Jonathan Liew

The Australian’s fluctuating fortunes at Spurs expose how much the game has become an act of persuasion

Tue 10 Jun 2025 16.48 BST

Enjoy your launch. And for Ange Postecoglou, who always bristled at the idea that his wealth of coaching experience had somehow been earned in inferior competitions, perhaps his departure from Tottenham really can be a kind of springboard: to one of these prestigious, equally demanding leagues he keeps talking about. Maybe the struggling Gamba Osaka. Perth Glory could well have a vacancy soon. Motherwell are still looking. A step down? That’s just your old-world, Eurocentric, Prem-brained snobbery showing right through there, mate.


And so to Postecoglou’s many rhetorical elisions can be added another: the triumphant sacking. Perhaps it was only in this universe – the post-truth universe – that such a feat was even conceivable. Along with the Europa League trophy he so stunningly spirited to north London, this may turn out to be the defining legacy of the Postecoglou interregnum. There have been better Premier League managers. There have been more charming and more entertaining Premier League managers. But there may never have been a manager better at defining his own terms of achievement; a managerial reign so evidently built upon a towering silo of nuclear-strength bullshit.


From the very start, Angeball constructed its own bespoke logic as it went along. The journey matters more than the destination. There is a process, and we stick to it. There are principles, and however tough things get, you never deviate from or compromise on them. “Even if we go down to five men, we will have a go,” he said after his nine men were defeated by Chelsea in November 2023. The idea of Champions League qualification as a goal in its own right, unaccompanied by broader progress: “meaningless”, as he put it in March 2024.


In January 2024 he rejected the idea that a single trophy could ever constitute satisfaction or atone for mediocrity elsewhere (“You can’t just sit back and say: ‘I’ve just delivered a trophy, shouldn’t I have some latitude to not be successful?’”). In October 2024 he insisted that Tottenham’s league performance should be regarded as the “most meaningful” measure of his side’s progress.

Ange Postecoglou 2023-24: meet Ange Postecoglou 2025. The coach who promised to attack in all circumstances, who disdained the transformative effect of a single trophy, has just won a trophy with the lowest possession recorded in a European final because sometimes – as he put it in Bilbao – “you have to change your approach”. A coach who urged us to judge him on the league now no longer judges himself on the league.


A coach who blames Tottenham’s abject league performance on a freak injury crisis also takes no responsibility for that injury crisis, for a style of play in which Tottenham comfortably spend more time in high-intensity sprints than any other Premier League team. A coach who claims he takes no notice of what is said and written about him has spent a suspiciously high proportion of this season reacting to things that have been said and written about him.


None of this is a character judgment or smoking gun in its own right. Changing your mind when the facts change: this is, in fact, entirely normal and rational behaviour. Hypocrisy is what makes us human. Go back through everything I’ve written about Postecoglou over the last two years and I’m sure you’ll find it riddled with compromising contradictions. For what it’s worth, I think the decision to sack Postecoglou now is a big error on Daniel Levy’s part. At a time when Spurs are undergoing all shades of upheaval off the pitch, trying to bolster an underpowered squad, a managerial search and a vibe shift is the last thing they need.


Beyond this there is an enduring fascination to Postecoglou, the animal magnetism of the true ideologue. He came to the Premier League with no great reputation or playing record behind him. Tactically, he offered little groundbreaking or novel beyond a hard-running, hard-chasing dogma in which the only solution to every problem is to believe harder in the dogma. The dogma will win your duels. It will head away set pieces for you. And if it doesn’t, it was ultimately your fault for not believing sufficiently in the dogma. In an important sense Postecoglou marked a continuation of the Mourinho-Conte axis: the latest in a series of coaches convinced that their own principles were stronger and worthier than those of the club, determined to prove to the world that Tottenham was terminally sick, yet they alone had the cure.


All of a sudden, one February morning, the league is gone; survival secure. The new dogma is defending like hell against continental Europeans on a Thursday. In fact, scratch that: this was always the dogma. There was no old dogma. This was what you were trying to build all along. Of course this has always been Postecoglou’s real superpower: the cult of personality, the ability to render words convincingly true simply by emitting them from your mouth, to build castles and citadels of bullshit, an apparatus of demagoguery so potent and alluring that it supplants all previous logic.

Which – and no moral judgments here – is quite interesting, right? A 57-year-old Australian bullshits his way into a Premier League job, to spectacular away wins at Manchester City and Manchester United, to some of the most entertaining football ever seen from a Tottenham team in my lifetime. He convinces players to run themselves past the point of wellness. He convinces them to stick together amid a frightening assemblage of centrifugal forces. He convinces a significant part of the English footballing public that league tables are a form of fraud. And finally to a European title.

Plot twist: the bullshit works. This isn’t a cheap con job. This is talent, as surely as substitutions or being able to put on a small-sided coaching session is talent. And what it exposes – perhaps “indicates” is a better word – is how much of modern football is essentially an act of persuasion. Agents bullshit. So do analysts and marketers and journalists. An entire industry built on pure narrative skill, the ability to make things up on the fly and bring people with you. What matters is not what you say, but the conviction with which you believe it to be true at the time.

And so the Postecoglou who declared at Celtic that he was “exactly where I want to be” now seeks another fresh start. Perhaps a sideways move to another Premier League club, perhaps even a step up in class to the Greek Super League, the Korean K League, the League of Ireland. This part will not be a problem. Football has no shortage of soiled dreamers, clubs who missed the gold rush, fans whose only real desire is to feel something again. Marseille, Roma, Benfica, Schalke, West Ham. Leeds sacking Daniel Farke in November and going all in on Angeball feels like a perfect fit.


There is of course an irony here. In his meticulously cultivated personal branding, Postecoglou often likes to paint himself as a throwback, an outsider, a counter-culturalist, the grizzled underdog. But in his reliance on patter and persuasion, bluster and bluff, he is in fact a very modern footballing phenomenon. This is Ange’s world now, and we’re all bullshitting in it.

There is a decent article about Fat Ange's persona buried in there somewhere, I suppose, bit that smug wee fud Jonathan Liew is worse than Ange and only a fraction of the writer he thinks he is. And managers relying on bluster and persuation is hardly a new phenomenon. That actually describes Brian Clough to a tee.
 
I'm not some hippy but I don't hate anyone. Hate takes up to much energy.
I feel the same, especially about Postecoglou. He managed them for 2 seasons and now no longer works for them, so I couldn't really care less about what he does the rest of his career or how often he stares at the floor
 
gm5.png
FFS ...........Hope our CEO isn't logged in
 
There is a decent article about Fat Ange's persona buried in there somewhere, I suppose, bit that smug wee fud Jonathan Liew is worse than Ange and only a fraction of the writer he thinks he is. And managers relying on bluster and persuation is hardly a new phenomenon. That actually describes Brian Clough to a tee.
You seriously think that a man who took a provincial club to two successive European Cups and an even smaller club to within a hair’s breadth of winning the same, relied on bluster and persuasion?
 
To be honest, I didnt really hate him when he was their manager. Certainly less than almost any manager they have had (including the current incumbent). I think he is a good manager and was actually happy for spurs. Also a bit for him given he put his balls in the marmite jar and outright declared they would win something in hi second year. I wish him no ill will.
 
Wouldn’t go as far as saying I hate him. He’s an obnoxious Aussie twat that I find pretty disagreeable & the arrogance seeps out of every pore with him (along with the gravy)

Lennon & O’Neil and even Rodgers because of his smug arrogance I can say I hate them.
Lennon & O’Neil poisoned Scottish society with their attitude. The hatred between us and them has been off the scale since O’Neil rocked up.
 
Even with the focus on the Europa, for Tottenham to finish 17th is a staggering underachievement, almost without question the worst performance in the Premier League era for a manager who has been in charge for the whole campaign.

Postecoglou’s style of football is invariably described as ‘brave’, and it certainly takes technical and positional bravery from the players. But whether it’s actually ‘brave’ to manage in such a fashion is a different question. After all, when his team fails to get results, the manager can always point to entertainment value, or explain that it’s part of a long-term plan; there’s always something other than the result to use as cover.

If anything, it’s surely braver to manage in a purely results-oriented fashion, where there’s no hiding place.


Ouch.
 
There is a decent article about Fat Ange's persona buried in there somewhere, I suppose, bit that smug wee fud Jonathan Liew is worse than Ange and only a fraction of the writer he thinks he is. And managers relying on bluster and persuation is hardly a new phenomenon. That actually describes Brian Clough to a tee.
Brian Clough was a phenomenal Manager
 
Hes not in the Lennon, Sutton, et al category of hatred, but i wish him nothing but failure in his future endeavours purely due to his association with them.

Similar to that Norwegian lady's front bottom they had.
 
He can't look the reporter in the eyes because he's on the spectrum, I'm not saying that's a bad thing , probably why he's got where he is today tbh, he doesn't interact with any the players as well as far as I've heard, not even at half time.
 
He had mislplaced arrogance in his own abilities ,most managers will win a league where your foul to booking ratio and pens are always signicantly better than any other team and usually twice your rivals .Coupled with never being on the wrong end of any VAR controversy in the vital moments of important games ,he won trophies with a stacked deck .
Found out in England ,which must have been a shock when decisions didn't go his way but to me he just did a job here ,didnt buy into the scummie mind set and never said anything derogatory about us , so I am fairly ambivalent towards him .
 
You seriously think that a man who took a provincial club to two successive European Cups and an even smaller club to within a hair’s breadth of winning the same, relied on bluster and persuasion?

He was an excellent man manager and he could spot a player, but even his former players will tell you his tactical instructions were very simple.
 
I've met him twice , once on the school run and another time at his kids birthday party. I wouldnt say he's the most affable chap I've ever met but he seemed ok I guess.
 
He had mislplaced arrogance in his own abilities ,most managers will win a league where your foul to booking ratio and pens are always signicantly better than any other team and usually twice your rivals .Coupled with never being on the wrong end of any VAR controversy in the vital moments of important games ,he won trophies with a stacked deck .
Found out in England ,which must have been a shock when decisions didn't go his way but to me he just did a job here ,didnt buy into the scummie mind set and never said anything derogatory about us , so I am fairly ambivalent towards him .
You have just described the Aussie
And
The wee diving Barsteward KYOGO

Both got found out rather quickly away from Ra Hoops
 
He needed a big help from Peter’s pals in his first year where they manufactured an early winter break and forced through 2 Rule changes to assist the Cult like no other and allow them to sign a plethora of players who otherwise wouldn’t have met the previous criteria

Don’t hate him hate the club he managed
 


To be honest we're never going to love anyone connected with them. But actively hating him?

He was a blunt Aussie doing a job with no baggage.

O'Neill and Lennon I did despise - they played for Northern Ireland when that team meant a lot in dark days across the community - and not a peep put of them until they immersed themselves in the Celtic poison.

Hate Ange? I'd rather pummel that squeaky twerp Strachan.

There will be a bit of "fat Ausie bastard" thrown about but I don't think he'll kop the real venom.
I think I Ended up hating him because he didn’t offend me as much as the others and he was their manager but agree, he was probably the least offensive of their managers we’ve been up against in recent years.
 
He knew how to win the spl with a high press and a superior budget to the other teams. Fair play to him as he’s made millions in spite of his limited managerial skills.
He also jumped ship from the scum as soon as a better offer came along.
There’s no way he’s up there with Lennon or o’neil in the hate stakes.

He still smells of bisto tho mate
 
He was a loathesome charater who would very easily be one of their most horrid managers of the past 25 years were it not for the likes of O'Neill and Lennon - but these are two very poisionous types that society was unlucky to be burdened with togterh in such a short space of time.

The fat kangaroo shagger was a prick though. And he was very much one of them. He had the biggest chip on his shoulder and still does.

Exapmple, Beale made a one-off quip about some managers being lucky. Didn't even name the fat slob. But he was absolutely incesned by it and seemed to bring it up in every interview. "I'm juust lucky appanrely" he would passively aggresiley force this into every interview. A horrible slug of a man.
 
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