Thoughts on Improving our team

Keilso

Well-Known Member
Posted this earlier on the wrong thread.

Most modern systems work, the key is having the correct players to fit into your system and coaching.

Last year we predominately played 433, occasionally for short periods we went to 4231, kent or Hagi would be moved into the central 10 role, but what annoyed me, was this was usually for a short time and then one of them would be subbed and back to a 433. (4222 was also used occasionally).

433 is known for being very attacking, sometimes as many as 7 players 3 attackers, 2 Full backs and 2 midfielders, yet we failed to keep up with the other mob in goals.
Most 433 set ups have evolved from the Dutch "Total football" through to Tika taka and usually requires 3 very technical midfielders (Holder, Controller and creator)
Liverpool's 433 is different, more counter attacking (rather than a control set up above) with lots of quick attacks from Full backs, Sane / Salah and box to box midfielders.

We obviously prefer control tactics, as most teams sit in. (However, i would like to see us counter attacking at pace more often).
433 control set ups rely on triangles and I didn't observe enough of the quick triangle movement / passing last season (We used this to good effect under Warburton, although we had other deficiencies).
To many times I saw players not moving the ball quickly enough (vital against deep defences), especially our wide players Kent, Aribo, barker and our midfielders Kamara, Davies and to a lesser extent Jack.
For instance Kent (not always) would pick up the ball and first look to attack the full back (we then get onto the edge of our seats) and he then checks out of the direct attack and looks to play the easy / slow pass inside or back .
For me this is a coaching issue, players need to move the ball faster, and have better movement.

Secondly as mentioned we need more goals especially from the wide two and another 1 or 2 midfielders, to much weight is put on Alfie's shoulders.
In modern, one centre forward formations, the CF is required to undertake a variety of responsibilities. He must be good at holding ball while his wide and midfield teammates make runs around him. The centre forward is one who usually uncharacteristically is self-less in this formation.

4231 imo, is more balanced, with the double pivot, again you can have 4 or 5 players attacking, add the full backs for 7. However, due to only technically having two midfielders, the 3 behind the Striker are required to drop into midfield, during defensive passages. This may not be an issue against weak opponents or at Home but in more difficult games (better European opposition, away on a Wednesday night to Aberdeen etc.) we will struggle sometimes.

Summary
1.
Develop / adopt and coach more than one formation.
For me 4231 against weaker opponents, at home, maybe chasing a goal).
433 as used last season for more difficult games Europe, C****c etc.
I would even have the team work on 4222, for when we require a goal.
Lastly would also work on counter attacking system, when we are ahead and teams lose possession high up, not always a fan of us controlling the game / slowing the pace down (after regaining possession) and not looking for the killer second goal, unless it's the last few minutes.

2. Sign players to fit the system or coach players better, this point 2 could go on forever but the most obvious to me, as stated above our attacking players, outwith Alfie must start scoring more goals.
We need players with an eye for goal, one of the issues I have with our current crop of players is a lack of hunger / desire to get into the box. To many times I see Kent and others daydreaming out wide, when good delivers are played in from Tav and vice versa from the left.

3. Not completely but reduce the number of crosses into the box, especially from deeper positions and look to play / utilise more triangles / better movement, quicker passing to open up pack defences.
This can easily be coached /adapted, hell, we were great under Warbuton for this but became to obvious and failed to use any crosses (remember corners).
This will help with point 2 and allow others more time to get into and out of the box, wide players getting to the bye line with movement / passing will have more options to pick out a player as well as dragging opposition players out of position.

Apologies for the long winded post.
 
Buy better players.. it was going to take 40/50 million to put a winning team on the field to beat the mentally challengeds which will take 3/4 seasons that's why this year we will do it
 
Our tactics work really well in Europe and against similar strength opposition who give us a game. We struggle against the park the bus mobs and the kick and rush teams like Kille who boot us off the park.

We need to get the ball up the park quickly and get them turning, not pass it sideways for a bit, work it out wide and cross a ball in to 3 of ours v 7 of them.
 
One thing about modern football that gets on my tits is the need to constantly stick to the same formation. The most successful and by far the best Rangers side I’ve watched changed to whatever the game suited. For example instead of going up to pittodrie with Hateley and Ally, we would go with Hateley and bring Ally off the bench.

Nowadays it’s all about the philosophy.
 
You need key players to act as catalysts

we are absolutely crying out for a dominant, agressive CM who acts as captain and leader

in fact you can go are as far as saying we will win nothing without one

the irony being that is exactly what Gerrard was
100% agree with this,spot on.
 
You need key players to act as catalysts

we are absolutely crying out for a dominant, agressive CM who acts as captain and leader

in fact you can go are as far as saying we will win nothing without one

the irony being that is exactly what Gerrard was
Perfect!
 
You need key players to act as catalysts

we are absolutely crying out for a dominant, agressive CM who acts as captain and leader

in fact you can go are as far as saying we will win nothing without one

the irony being that is exactly what Gerrard was

This. Not sure who that player is though but sure Ross Wilson is working on this.
 
Better players in key central positions i.e CB, CM and Striker, a system that doesn't heavily rely on Alfie in every game.
 
You need key players to act as catalysts

we are absolutely crying out for a dominant, agressive CM who acts as captain and leader

in fact you can go are as far as saying we will win nothing without one

the irony being that is exactly what Gerrard was
A kevin thomson wouldn't go a miss right now.
 
Quality not quantity. We have several wingers or support forwards not hitting the mark in hastie, murphy, jones, middleton, barker and stewart. Three of these were brought in last summer when one quality one could have been targeted instead.
 
For me Goal Keeper and Defence are fine at the moment. Possibly stregthen right back, but give Tav one last chance due to his attacking threat.

In order of priority. At least 2 of these players need to have leadership and drive to win.

Defensive midfielder, aggressive, athletic, physical, strong and can control the tempo of the game and build attacks.

Box to Box midfielder. Again, preferably an athletic physical presence, covers a lot of ground, someone who is all action, dynamic, links play and gets into the opposition penalty box. Someone to support Hagi through the middle.

Right Sided forward. Someone who is quick and strong to run in behind, but can also play against packed defence in tight situations. Need good movement.

Versatile forward, can play through the middle or out wide. Something different to Morelos but can still link play and has sharp movement against packed defences.
 
Really disheartening to read such a good OP only for one of the first replies to be a reiteration of the "we pure need a hard bastard midfielder" take.
 
Don’t be stuck on one formation

Sign a few players who can play more than one position

Have a few players who allow you to change the way you play (have a target man)

Have at least one player in every match day squad who has come up from the youth squad
 
If I had to say one thing it would be goals from the 2 players either side of the main striker. If those players chipped in with 15 goals each a season the results would look a lot different.
 
Don’t be stuck on one formation

Sign a few players who can play more than one position

Have a few players who allow you to change the way you play (have a target man)

Have at least one player in every match day squad who has come up from the youth squad

You make a good point. I would like our front 3 to be more interchangeable. For instance, a right or left sided attacker who was equally as comfortable playing through the middle.
 
Dor me the heart goes out the team too easy so no.matter the quality we will be suspect to a physical approach by the opposition.
We need a leader who can inspire.....a Gough would be perfect. But a CM leader would also work

.
 
What did he write?
Whenever anybody puts a bit of pressure on us in Scotland or gets in our face it seems to affect us too much,” writes Tavernier.

“At the start of the season when teams dropped off us and we were scoring four or fives goals, but now they smell blood straight away and it puts us under pressure.
 
Really disheartening to read such a good OP only for one of the first replies to be a reiteration of the "we pure need a hard bastard midfielder" take.
Probably won't be popular but aside from a prolific goal scoring midfielder, we need a reliable striker. Morelos is great when he's in the mood, but we need someone that will be constantly available and will produce 20+ goals a season. Pity Defoe wasn't a few years younger.
 
Buy better players.. it was going to take 40/50 million to put a winning team on the field to beat the mentally challengeds which will take 3/4 seasons that's why this year we will do it

Exactly this. It was always going to be incremental improvement considering we were building from such a low ebb.

We now have players who have value, where we can sell one or two and allow us to shop in a better market with more ready made talent.
 
Fully agree with Point 1 OP. We have our European system, we don't have our domestic system perfected yet.

There's lots of ways I think we could improve but to keep it relatively short, the main one is an upgrade to our midfield with two key signings that would allow us to play in a style that gets the best out of our best players and have the ability to play a variety of formations better.

For me our best players strengths are; Hagi central and within 15 yards of the striker. Kent out wide running at defenders rather than coming short and central. Alfredo getting early balls up to him to roll defenders. Watch any of their "best moments" videos and that's what they are doing most of the time.

Add a player of real quality to play on the right wing, firstly we'll add 20 plus goals and assists to the team. After that add a more physically dominating defensive minded midfielder.

Suddenly it allows Hagi to play as a CAM who can link with Morelos. Kent can be a natural wide man on the left side because he doesn't have to worry as much about leaving Alfredo isolated.

Last season our options in the middle of the park were all to similar. Nobody really scored or created and nobody was a proper solid sit in front of the back 4 type. With Hagi as a CAM, a new CDM, then add in Jack, Davis, Aribo, Kamara or Arfield there is suddenly a bit of variety in our midfield which would allow us to change formation to any of the ones OP mentioned.
 
Half the problem is we tend to be too predictable and teams park the bastarding bus and unless we score and they change their shape we often struggle.

We need to be able to break down Kilmarnock and Hamiltons of this world.
 
I think our issues stem more from poor recruitment choices, more so, than a lack of tactical nous being shown by our coaching staff. Our team is quite unbalanced in certain areas and at times last season that got shown up horribly. You could address that imbalance in the squad by playing a different way or style but it doesn't solve the problem of strange decisions made during the recruitment process.

I think the fact we hired a new Sporting Director midway through a season, speaks volumes on the recruitment side of things. That's not to say it was botched entirely. We still did managed to do some good business, I just think we lacked a lot of joined up thinking in the market. We were guilty of stacking the squad heavily with what amounted to squad fillers essentially and it had the opposite effect to the one we wanted. We bought too many similar types of players and neglected to buy players in positions we lacked or need to strengthen in in. Our issue is that we simple need to be more effective in the market. If Ross Wilson addresses that and our squad shapes up well then I think we've got the basis of a good team there.
 
4-2-3-1 domestically 4-3-3 for big games/Europe.

Still believe we need a DM and CM to go straight into the midfield powerful dynamic and creative players.

A creative goal threat from RM cutting in to support the main striker we need a player with pace and an eye for goal.

An all round striker who will fight it out with Morelos/possibly replace him.

Also believe we need 1 or 2 attacking impact options from the bench possibly an extra wide player who can play across the front line possibly.

Wouldn't mind someone else to challenge Tavernier and a solid defender to seriously challenge Goldson these would be options although not as necessary but something we need to look at.

In summary we need at the minimum 3/4 quality additions to go straight into the team it's a priority.

Possibly an extra one or two options to enhance the bench/squad.

And if we can do it add in options to push the RB and CB positions.

I'd say we need 8 players if we are to go the distance next season as I have no confidence in our squad options.
 
I think our issues stem more from poor recruitment choices, more so, than a lack of tactical nous being shown by our coaching staff. Our team is quite unbalanced in certain areas and at times last season that got shown up horribly. You could address that imbalance in the squad by playing a different way or style but it doesn't solve the problem of strange decisions made during the recruitment process.

I think the fact we hired a new Sporting Director midway through a season, speaks volumes on the recruitment side of things. That's not to say it was botched entirely. We still did managed to do some good business, I just think we lacked a lot of joined up thinking in the market. We were guilty of stacking the squad heavily with what amounted to squad fillers essentially and it had the opposite effect to the one we wanted. We bought too many similar types of players and neglected to buy players in positions we lacked or need to strengthen in in. Our issue is that we simple need to be more effective in the market. If Ross Wilson addresses that and our squad shapes up well then I think we've got the basis of a good team there.

For me, some of the loans and signings have been poor. Lots of them have not worked. Hopefully we have learned our lesson and Ross Wilson and Gerrard have an idea where we have been going wrong.
 
Quality over quantity, including Haji we need another 3 players that go straight into first team. Central midfielder, right winger and a striker
 
For me Goal Keeper and Defence are fine at the moment. Possibly stregthen right back, but give Tav one last chance due to his attacking threat.

In order of priority. At least 2 of these players need to have leadership and drive to win.

Defensive midfielder, aggressive, athletic, physical, strong and can control the tempo of the game and build attacks.

Box to Box midfielder. Again, preferably an athletic physical presence, covers a lot of ground, someone who is all action, dynamic, links play and gets into the opposition penalty box. Someone to support Hagi through the middle.

Right Sided forward. Someone who is quick and strong to run in behind, but can also play against packed defence in tight situations. Need good movement.

Versatile forward, can play through the middle or out wide. Something different to Morelos but can still link play and has sharp movement against packed defences.

I can agree with most of that - but not the opening sentence
To me our defence is not as solid as it should be -

I often can't fault individuals performances in our back four - but as a unit they don't cover for each other efficiently - & look like they're still getting to know each other at times

I'm not sure if personnel need changing & suspect it's more of an attitude, mentality, concentration & /or teamwork problem

Despite what stats say - I still don't feel confident with them
 
For me, some of the loans and signings have been poor. Lots of them have not worked. Hopefully we have learned our lesson and Ross Wilson and Gerrard have an idea where we have been going wrong.

I think we've cut many corners in our recruitment especially under the the tenure of Mark Allen and personally I think we wasted the majority of last summer chasing and splashing most of our cash in Kent whilst supplementing the squad with mediocre dross which as we saw from January onwards it came back and haunted us.

Forget our best eleven and Defoe from the bench what else do we seriously have in our squad especially in terms of quality or game changers ?

We have nothing currently in our squad it's alarming that the management seem to think that Barker, Jones, Stewart, Murphy are the answer to pushing an already underachieving front line even go the midfield there's nothing there Docherty isn't the answer and it's all pretty much like for like in terms of similar type players.

There's a pattern emerging here and it happens every summer we have so many players who just aren't good enough and it seems to affect our ability to bring the right players in.

Another summer comes around and we have the same questions notably of the squad it's no where near good enough.

Most folk agree we need quality maybe 3 or 4 additions to go straight into the team but we have a similar big problem with the main core of 18 players there is nothing from the bench as it stands and that's a problem which many aren't seeing.
 
Good thread.

One of the biggest problems is that the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 is barely any different under Gerrard, you can barely see any difference when watching from the stands.

I think the players are only truly comfy when playing a 4-3-3 though, and to me that’s an absolute failure of coaching.

We played 3-5-2 once at Fir Park, some of the football was excellent and we conceded two goals from individual mistakes - nothing to do with the formation - but the fans moaned and we never saw it again. That was weak from the coaching staff.

It’s 2020, players should be comfy in a back three or four.
 
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