Tillman signing rumours

I wonder if a sticking point is the buy back situation. Reported that included in the agreed deal last year was Bayern's ability to buy him back at an agreed price.

So his potential to earn us money might not be as straightforward as it seems.

The noise about him maybe not wanting to be here is going to sway plenty of fans as well.

I'm pretty easy osey on him signing. Enjoyed watching him but found his performances in the old firm frustrating.
 
Mr_Miscellaneous said:
I doubt it. Kent did something against them and in Europe, an exciting signing who added something we were sorely missing at the time, between the loan and signing again.

Tillman was a man down in both sets of fixtures. He's an OK player. Not Bayern quality in a million years, but he's fine at a mid-tier European domestic league and especially at putting the dross to the sword.

If he signs, OK. He can put away the dross, but he's a limited player who we will have to go significantly out of our way tactically to accommodate in high-profile fixtures (which he will demand to be a part of).

If he doesn't, OK. This isn't the transfer window for "ah, he'll be worth £x millions more when we sell him!" and I don't think we've missed him at all since he went back to Bayern.
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Jesus wept. Hes 20 years old. Your talking about him like hes a 28 year old journeyman. He's not "limited" in anyway whatsoever.

What was he supposed to do in these OF games? Single handedly beat them? We were 11 men down in most of them.
 
DKRangers said:
Except he hasn't really. People have just taken to Cantwell more because he runs about a lot and gives a bit of stick to Celtic fans. Let's be honest.

Cantwell - 20 games, 6 goals, 5 assists.
Tillman - 43 games, 12 goals, 5 assists.

Then you take into consideration the fact that 9 of Tillman's games were in the Champions League and the first half of the season was played under Gio where he didn't know what to do with him. You could also add in the fact that Cantwell is far more experienced than Tillman.

So can you explain how he eclipsed him?
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Look mate take away the stats for a minute, and just use your eyes to watch the games

Cantwell has an enthusiasm which is infectious and more likely to spread among his team mates. Don't underestimate that

We play in a footballing nation which is obsessed with that kind of thing, true, but it pretty much stands to reason as well. When you 'run about a lot' as you put it, and win your battles first, then quality is allowed to shine through. That's how it's always been in Scotland and if you take one look across the road, the reason they've been winning more than us in the past couple of years is exactly that. They've wanted it more, they don't have players that are a great deal better than ours.

Cantwell has endeared himself to the support I'm sure you'll agree and even in a way that Tillman could not, because of those fighting qualities but if he didn't have an end product to his game then it wouldn't be worth its while. But he does! And that's why to me he's an exciting prospect to us, because he has a bit of both.

Tillman on the other hand to me has the quality, no doubt about that and I've stated that in every post in this thread. Before his fan boys jump in with yet more laughing emoji's, I do think he's a right good player, I just don't think he has some of the things that are not that easy to see, in order to maximise the talent he does have. Such as application, an urgency in his game, sheer desire, a fearless nature in big games, and a will to win.

You may think he doesn't lack or even need those things, but I do. It's called an opinion, so you take it or leave it, up to you. We'll find out who's more right in the future.
 
Pay as you play said:
I wonder if a sticking point is the buy back situation. Reported that included in the agreed deal last year was Bayern's ability to buy him back at an agreed price.

So his potential to earn us money might not be as straightforward as it seems.

The noise about him maybe not wanting to be here is going to sway plenty of fans as well.

I'm pretty easy osey on him signing. Enjoyed watching him but found his performances in the old firm frustrating.
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It could be helpful simply dosn,t fancy playing in the spfl.
 
Turrabear said:
It could be helpful simply dosn,t fancy playing in the spfl.
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Think it was in a recent press conference or an interview with Sky, cant remember which, where Arteta said Rangers were a good option for him when he joined as he wanted to get used to the physical side of the game and playing here would help with that.

This was when even the EPL was a pretty physical league. It seems though nowhere is nowadays expect our league, depressingly so.

Tillman wouldn't need another year here to develop that side of the game as you don't need it as much in modern football so its more than likely he'd rather a year in Serie A or La Liga. .
 
Taverneeeeer said:
Lowry doesn’t currently play the same sport as tillman never mind be better than him
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It wont cost us 5m to find out which sport hes good at though, bit odd that anyone would want to have a go at Lowry but i guess folk are getting a bit emotional.

Maybe if Lowry gets the same amount of time, sympathy and support he could be the next young poty, football can change quickly if he gets his chance you never know.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
It wont cost us 5m to find out which sport hes good at though, bit odd that anyone would want to have a go at Lowry but i guess folk are getting a bit emotional.

Maybe if Lowry gets the same amount of time, sympathy and support he could be the next young poty, football can change quickly if he gets his chance you never know.
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Im not having a go at lowry. Actually know him and he is a lovely guy. However, he isn’t as talented as tillman. Not close. Thats all I meant by it
 
My feeling is the sticking points would be ,
Does the boy want the move.
Bayern buy back clause.
If we sign him and develop him more then we would want a significant sell on profit.
 
Since the League Cup final i have great respect for Stevie Clifford from 4 lads and the Rangers Review.
Spoke really well after that defeat, hit home a few home truths and one of the best podcast episodes.
The other day Stevie spoke of Tillman and said along the lines of if you really need to take a few weeks, months deciding if you want to come to Ibrox ( especially after having the season here ) , is this the type of player we want? Possibly waiting on a better deal and if it doesn't come sign for Rangers ?
Personally im undecided about Tillman but wise words from Stevie.
 
Pennine Walk said:
Since the League Cup final i have great respect for Stevie Clifford from 4 lads and the Rangers Review.
Spoke really well after that defeat, hit home a few home truths and one of the best podcast episodes.
The other day Stevie spoke of Tillman and said along the lines of if you really need to take a few weeks, months deciding if you want to come to Ibrox ( especially after having the season here ) , is this the type of player we want? Possibly waiting on a better deal and if it doesn't come sign for Rangers ?
Personally im undecided about Tillman but wise words from Stevie.
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Has spent the last week training by himself at Bayern.

If he was genuinely interested or wanted to move to us it would have been done long ago.
 
Coplandbear said:
Has spent the last week training by himself at Bayern.

If he was genuinely interested or wanted to move to us it would have been done long ago.
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Exactally what Stevie was saying. I was undecided about this and im unsure. The kid has shown some great stuff but we beat that lot 3- 0 with a faster moving midfield.
I trust in Beale.
 
Pennine Walk said:
Exactally what Stevie was saying. I was undecided about this and im unsure. The kid has shown some great stuff but we beat that lot 3- 0 with a faster moving midfield.
I trust in Beale.
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When the rumours came about he didn't like the Glasgow lifestyle I thought nah he's not interested then a few interviews came where he never looked comfortable when asked the question of joining us permanently same when he came back for the awards ceremony sure he was asked usual nervous approach oh we'll see etc.

If he's not committed by now or even interested don't bother move on he's had months to make his mind up.
 
Coplandbear said:
When the rumours came about he didn't like the Glasgow lifestyle I thought nah he's not interested then a few interviews came where he never looked comfortable when asked the question of joining us permanently same when he came back for the awards ceremony sure he was asked usual nervous approach oh we'll see etc.

If he's not committed by now or even interested don't bother move on he's had months to make his mind up.
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He's looked awkward and shy in every interview he's ever done.
 
Taverneeeeer said:
Im not having a go at lowry. Actually know him and he is a lovely guy. However, he isn’t as talented as tillman. Not close. Thats all I meant by it
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You better tell him then that the FF Football Manager experts have decided if he doesn’t start 20-30 games this season his career at any decent level is over!
 
Bit strange how quiet it has all went. Beale clearly wanted him and kept mentioning that discussions with Bayern were ongoing. If he's staying at Bayern, surely the club would have made a statement wishing him well and thanking him for his service? I suspect it's still a possibility.

If we're going into the new season with options like Raskin, Cantwell, Tillman and hopefully Cifuentes, Lammers, & Dessers I'd be officially whelmed.
 
I look at it this way: if Lammers, Dowell or Lawrence do next season, what Tillman just did this season, we’d be raving. The solo goals, the relentless pressure to win the ball up high, his aerial prowess, the sublime finishing.

If we signed a guy that did the same, we’d go nuts. It’s the price tag the fans are worried about, but I tend to think that’s really not our responsibility to worry about. Bisgrove and co will make the money, I have no doubt.
 
bluereason said:
I thought we had an exclusive £5m buy out option after the loan? He's got to be already worth nearly double that after last season's progression. He is an obvious asset especially if Brighton are interested who have a great record with buying raw talent and nurturing it.
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We do but that will end on the 30th June I think. Beale did say to him to take upto a month to think about it according to the player, so I'm sure we will know soon enough.
 
stephen ferris said:
Makes no sense, why would you have a exclusive buy option, for then Bayern to have the option to accept or reject the deal. Beale has said before that the deal is in place for us to buy Tillman. The decision is With Tillman not Bayern.
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Because Tillman doesn't want the move in that case our exclusive buy option is pointless we can't force him to sign hence Bayern can then ask for more money from elsewhere.

The fact the player has been training himself back in Germany tells you a story.
 
Coplandbear said:
Because Tillman doesn't want the move in that case our exclusive buy option is pointless we can't force him to sign hence Bayern can then ask for more money from elsewhere.

The fact the player has been training himself back in Germany tells you a story.
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That’s exactly what I said above it’s Tillmans decision. The article however makes it seem that Bayern themselves will turn down our offer and look for more money. They can’t make that decision only Tillman can. He is not back from Injury until the end of July, so makes sense to Train and rehab with the club which owns him.
 
stephen ferris said:
That’s exactly what I said above it’s Tillmans decision. The article however makes it seem that Bayern themselves will turn down our offer and look for more money. They can’t make that decision only Tillman can.
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They’ll just say to him to wait it out until our option expires. Benfica tried to do this with Jota last summer but he wanted to sign for them.
 
Mood music isn't sounding too good - personally, think it'd be a right shame if we couldn't hold on to him for another year. i've said it before, but i think the lad has the most potential for a youngster that i've seen in a long time. but i'd also understand if he wanted to try his luck elsewhere.

i'm also not sure what the benefits of this deal with Bayern are - can somebody a bit more clued in explain to me? i'm just not sure where the benefits are to us, if it's true that Bayern have the option to buy back at a reduced fee.
 
stephen ferris said:
Makes no sense, why would you have a exclusive buy option, for then Bayern to have the option to accept or reject the deal. Beale has said before that the deal is in place for us to buy Tillman. The decision is With Tillman not Bayern.
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Exactly. In this scenario if Bayern want to punt him for more money then the following should happen.

- Rangers purchase Tillman for agreed price
- Bayern buy him back for agreed buy back price
- Bayern sell him on

If we are only not pushing through with this deal because Tillman doesn't want to join then we are mugs. It's pointless having a deal like this if the player is able to refuse it.
 
stephen ferris said:
That’s exactly what I said above it’s Tillmans decision. The article however makes it seem that Bayern themselves will turn down our offer and look for more money. They can’t make that decision only Tillman can. He is not back from Injury until the end of July, so makes sense to Train and rehab with the club which owns him.
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They can't make the decision for him, but they can pay him a chunk of cash not to join us.
 
Ter said:
Exactly. In this scenario if Bayern want to punt him for more money then the following should happen.

- Rangers purchase Tillman for agreed price
- Bayern buy him back for agreed buy back price
- Bayern sell him on

If we are only not pushing through with this deal because Tillman doesn't want to join then we are mugs. It's pointless having a deal like this if the player is able to refuse it.
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On the contrary, surely it would pointless if the player wasn't able to refuse it? What use would it be us spending £5m on a player if he was actively against coming here?
 
wd1872 said:
Look mate take away the stats for a minute, and just use your eyes to watch the games

Cantwell has an enthusiasm which is infectious and more likely to spread among his team mates. Don't underestimate that

We play in a footballing nation which is obsessed with that kind of thing, true, but it pretty much stands to reason as well. When you 'run about a lot' as you put it, and win your battles first, then quality is allowed to shine through. That's how it's always been in Scotland and if you take one look across the road, the reason they've been winning more than us in the past couple of years is exactly that. They've wanted it more, they don't have players that are a great deal better than ours.

Cantwell has endeared himself to the support I'm sure you'll agree and even in a way that Tillman could not, because of those fighting qualities but if he didn't have an end product to his game then it wouldn't be worth its while. But he does! And that's why to me he's an exciting prospect to us, because he has a bit of both.

Tillman on the other hand to me has the quality, no doubt about that and I've stated that in every post in this thread. Before his fan boys jump in with yet more laughing emoji's, I do think he's a right good player, I just don't think he has some of the things that are not that easy to see, in order to maximise the talent he does have. Such as application, an urgency in his game, sheer desire, a fearless nature in big games, and a will to win.

You may think he doesn't lack or even need those things, but I do. It's called an opinion, so you take it or leave it, up to you. We'll find out who's more right in the future.
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Bang on the money.
 
Ter said:
Exactly. In this scenario if Bayern want to punt him for more money then the following should happen.

- Rangers purchase Tillman for agreed price
- Bayern buy him back for agreed buy back price
- Bayern sell him on

If we are only not pushing through with this deal because Tillman doesn't want to join then we are mugs. It's pointless having a deal like this if the player is able to refuse it.
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Doesn’t he have to sign the deal ?

And if he doesn’t want to ?

Not sure how that makes Rangers mugs.
 
No surprises Brighton and Brentford are circling. Their recruitment has been elite in recent years. Still think we would be a good move for his development. Guaranteed some form of European football and more game time than he would at a EPL club.
 
Pennine Walk said:
Since the League Cup final i have great respect for Stevie Clifford from 4 lads and the Rangers Review.
Spoke really well after that defeat, hit home a few home truths and one of the best podcast episodes.
The other day Stevie spoke of Tillman and said along the lines of if you really need to take a few weeks, months deciding if you want to come to Ibrox ( especially after having the season here ) , is this the type of player we want? Possibly waiting on a better deal and if it doesn't come sign for Rangers ?
Personally im undecided about Tillman but wise words from Stevie.
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Ally McCoist knocked us back before he joined us so a lot of your post is birthday caird pish I'm afraid.
 
Tillman is one of the most talented footballers we have had at Ibrox this century, arguably the most talented of them all. If we fail to get him or don’t do enough to convince him, it’ll be a regret for us in the long term. He’s an elite footballer.
 
wd1872 said:
Look mate take away the stats for a minute, and just use your eyes to watch the games

Cantwell has an enthusiasm which is infectious and more likely to spread among his team mates. Don't underestimate that

We play in a footballing nation which is obsessed with that kind of thing, true, but it pretty much stands to reason as well. When you 'run about a lot' as you put it, and win your battles first, then quality is allowed to shine through. That's how it's always been in Scotland and if you take one look across the road, the reason they've been winning more than us in the past couple of years is exactly that. They've wanted it more, they don't have players that are a great deal better than ours.

Cantwell has endeared himself to the support I'm sure you'll agree and even in a way that Tillman could not, because of those fighting qualities but if he didn't have an end product to his game then it wouldn't be worth its while. But he does! And that's why to me he's an exciting prospect to us, because he has a bit of both.

Tillman on the other hand to me has the quality, no doubt about that and I've stated that in every post in this thread. Before his fan boys jump in with yet more laughing emoji's, I do think he's a right good player, I just don't think he has some of the things that are not that easy to see, in order to maximise the talent he does have. Such as application, an urgency in his game, sheer desire, a fearless nature in big games, and a will to win.

You may think he doesn't lack or even need those things, but I do. It's called an opinion, so you take it or leave it, up to you. We'll find out who's more right in the future.
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I don't disagree with much of that, but I would just say that Cantwell is 5 years older with a lot more first team experience, including Premier League experience. You can understand why he felt able to come in and play with a bit of swagger and authority. Tillman was only 20 when he arrived, new club, new league and I think you can understand why he was a bit more reserved. I think with having the experience of last season under his belt, we'd get a lot more from him next year. He knows the league now, knows the club and he wouldn't be the new kid on the block any more. Personally I'd be disappointed if we don't get him and I think we'd be good for his development also. A couple of seasons with us and he could go to England, Spain or wherever as an experienced 23 year old with his best years still ahead of him.
 
Ter said:
Exactly. In this scenario if Bayern want to punt him for more money then the following should happen.

- Rangers purchase Tillman for agreed price
- Bayern buy him back for agreed buy back price
- Bayern sell him on

If we are only not pushing through with this deal because Tillman doesn't want to join then we are mugs. It's pointless having a deal like this if the player is able to refuse it.
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It's the players right to refuse a move he doesn't want though. It was our job to convince him that our club was the best option on the table for him. It's looking like we didn't do that.

Also I'm no expert on the legalities, but I'm pretty sure buying him, then selling him back to Bayern and then them selling him on again, isn't an option. Not within the same window anyway.
 
Ter said:
Exactly. In this scenario if Bayern want to punt him for more money then the following should happen.

- Rangers purchase Tillman for agreed price
- Bayern buy him back for agreed buy back price
- Bayern sell him on

If we are only not pushing through with this deal because Tillman doesn't want to join then we are mugs. It's pointless having a deal like this if the player is able to refuse it.
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Why would Bayern agree to that haha
 
unionjock2 said:
We do but that will end on the 30th June I think. Beale did say to him to take upto a month to think about it according to the player, so I'm sure we will know soon enough.
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I tend to feel if Tillman isn’t desperate to sign for us we should probably move on.

If he needs a month to think about it (or see if anyone else comes in for him), perhaps he’s not the player for us?
 
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