Time for big Helander?

2 games on the trot CBs have been poor. After the scum game I would have dropped Goldson for Helander. Today, both were poor but that is as poor as I've seen Katic since he joined. The Livi no 9 totally spooked both of our big tough CBs. Helander and Goldson on Thursday for me. Goldson's goodwill is wearing very thin.
 
Math1eson said:
Katic had a poor game today everyone was poor vs the unwashed. However the biggest issue isn’t the occasional poor game. It’s the fact that well drilled teams are using, Niko on his weak side to reset and regain shape, they drop off and let him have the ball knowing he wants to turn back inside onto his stronger side, it slows our play down massively which is a real issue when playing against a low block. It’s a double issue when Flanagan plays as both want to turn inside.
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Yep, so play Helander and Barisic.
 
mkgers said:
I agree mate. Instead we're left with the option of continuing with players that are performing below par or throwing new lads into a European group game.
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Hard choice the gaffer has made for himself.

Even having Kamara start today over Aribo or Arfield would have gave us more fresh options.
 
hhss said:
That defence, except Tav, had a day off today. Poor showing.

Aribo has now had four on the spin where he’s been anonymous. Ojo, I actually don’t know what to say.

No player can say they had a great game today.
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Didn’t Aribo set up Morelos?
Pretty sure Ojo set up Barker as well.

I get your point in general, but give credit where it’s due as well
 
It’s getting to the point where you have to ask what the point was spending all that money on him. Our defence was really poor today so surely he will get a chance on Thursday
 
For me Helander should get a chance beside our best centre defender who is Katic. I reckon Gerrard would say it’s Goldson plus 1.
 
EE-Bear said:
For me Helander should get a chance beside our best centre defender who is Katic. I reckon Gerrard would say it’s Goldson plus 1.
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All about opinions.

For me, Goldson is easily our best CB. I think he will go with Goldson and Katic v Feyenoord. And Goldson and Helander v St. Johnstone.

McGregor, Tav, Goldson, Jack, Morelos. That's our core. They will play almost every match. The rest will rotate.
 
I'm surprised Goldson played today. One of the other two should have came in after Goldson sold the jerseys against the mockits. You shouldn't be able to make mistakes like that and keep your place...not when you have 2 good centre halves waiting on their chance.

The defence in general rips my knitting at times. So slow and lethargic. I'm convinced our turgidness and shit tempo stems from there.
 
SmileyBear said:
Not struggling at all just because a player costs 3 million pounds doesn't mean he's an automatic choice if not fit or not doing it in training.
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The current defence is underperforming on the pitch it's as simple as that.

I'm not saying he should be an automatic pick based on his price tag, but he should be given a chance now to see if he can become one, as neither Goldson or Katic are in good form currently.

The few minutes he's had on the pitch so far he's looked fine. None of us have any idea how he is performing in training so that's just mad speculation at this point.
 
Nobody attacked cross balls at the back today and gave them some free efforts at goal.
To be fair they did not score from open play and it is unusual to have this level of ballwatching.
They seemed strangely nervous and unsure as to their jobs, perhaps too much tinkering in front of them.
 
I'd swap the pair of them out for Helander and Edmunson. Not saying they're better but I'd rather have partnerships competing than individuals.
 
Not allowed to have a quiet game ffs Katic been one of the bright spots this season. McKinnon Butcher never had quiet games brilliant every week ffs behave.
 
I can’t see Helander being parachuted in for Thursday if he didn’t play yesterday. The Livi game would have been the perfect warm up match if the manager was thinking along those lines. If he replaces Goldson or Katic and has a mare then Gerrard will be slaughtered.

This is concerning on 2 levels. First, it seems that Goldson can do no wrong and is undroppable. This never sends a good message to the rest of the squad as well as obviously weakening the team. Secondly, we had £5.5m of defenders warming the bench whilst we shipped a cheap goal at home to Livingston. In our financial situation that is unacceptable. We cannot go on making these mistakes, and at the moment Helander is a mistake as there is no reason why he wouldn’t now be fit enough for first team action. Therefore there must be other reasons why he is not starting, especially after the horror show at Ibrox at the start of the month.

If the defence has a poor game on Thursday then the knives are going to be out for Gerrard and it’ll be difficult to defend him after such a sluggish start to the season (Legia excepted) and such a humiliating capitulation to the filth at Ibrox. Immediate and substantial improvement is required.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
The time for Helander was today.

Goldson and Katić have been poor. Our defence as a whole have been garbage for the majority of the season thus far.

The left back position is a real concern as well. Halliday isn't up to it. Today should be the last time we see him in that position.
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Left back is a concern but to say the whole defence has been garbage is nonsense .

Katic has been outstanding apart from the yahoo game where the whole team were terrible , and yesterday where he had his worst game of the season .

Left back aside which is Flanagan’s when fit , the only player in the back 4 who could/should be dropped is Goldson who has had quite a few hair raising moments and poor performances .

However I cannot see Gerrard dropping Goldson .
 
Goldson should have been dropped after the filth game, he;s been poor all season.
Katic has until yesterday been superb, but today he wasn't at the races either.
How much does that have to do playing with an inferior partner.

Katic and Helander going forward please
 
Connor Goldson for me is not playing well at present. He seems a bit nervy and unsure, he is regularly bickering with Tav about release of the ball to him on the right, whether tav has gone too wide or long Connor seems to give Tav pelters and I have to say sometimes Tav is giving it back to him aplenty too.

Not sure whats going on being honest but i would swap out Connor for Helander and see how it goes for a couple of games. The expectation levels are massive at Ibrox, we criticise the least loose ball and groan if a 30 yard pass is misplaced slightly or late. It would grind on anyones self confidence if either your intended target doesn't read the game as you do or your form has dipped a bit and are not quite in synch with the team.

Would do no harm giving Goldson a well deserved rest from the pressure for a couple of games.

Having focussed on Goldson above I have to say the whole of the defence looked unsettled by their big number 9 at times and our defending at times was scary.
 
Heard a few weeks ago that he was struggling to make an impression and posted it on here. Was denied by ITKs though.

It's worrying that he's not found himself in the team yet. People saying he needs time to get up to speed / wait his chance etc when Ryan Kent walks right into the starting 11 as soon as he's here.

There's some amount of denial on here at times.
 
Rudolph Hucker said:
I can’t see Helander being parachuted in for Thursday if he didn’t play yesterday. The Livi game would have been the perfect warm up match if the manager was thinking along those lines. If he replaces Goldson or Katic and has a mare then Gerrard will be slaughtered.

This is concerning on 2 levels. First, it seems that Goldson can do no wrong and is undroppable. This never sends a good message to the rest of the squad as well as obviously weakening the team. Secondly, we had £5.5m of defenders warming the bench whilst we shipped a cheap goal at home to Livingston. In our financial situation that is unacceptable. We cannot go on making these mistakes, and at the moment Helander is a mistake as there is no reason why he wouldn’t now be fit enough for first team action. Therefore there must be other reasons why he is not starting, especially after the horror show at Ibrox at the start of the month.

If the defence has a poor game on Thursday then the knives are going to be out for Gerrard and it’ll be difficult to defend him after such a sluggish start to the season (Legia excepted) and such a humiliating capitulation to the filth at Ibrox. Immediate and substantial improvement is required.
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We have only lost one game in 14 competitive games it's a bit early for the knives to be out although we have not played well we have still been quite consistent.
 
It'll be big Niko dropping out. sadly. No doubt bombed out after yesterday. wouldn't be my call, but Katic and Helander are too similar to feature together
 
Big call for Stevie on Thursday,Katic was horrendous yesterday,he’s been great so far this season.
I think he’ll stick with both for Thursday but Barisic must start at LB.
 
We have 4 very good Centre Backs. Part of the problem seems to be there doesnt seem to be a great amount between them. We need 2 of them to stake a claim as a definite starting partnership. The other 2 can be back up.
 
I’m not a big fan of chopping and changing CH’s as I think a partnership needs to form. The best CH pairings from the past almost end up knowing what the other CH is about to do before he does it.

For this to be the case, they need games together.

Having said all that I can’t see Goldson and Katic being the preferred pairing at the end of the season and for that reason I think we need to bring in the £3M man and see what he has got. I also really liked the look of Edmundson when he got a chance.

Is this Thursday the time to do that? I don’t think so. Actually yesterday was the perfect time to do it! Anyway that opportunity has gone so I’d go with G&K and maybe change it at the weekend.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Heard a few weeks ago that he was struggling to make an impression and posted it on here. Was denied by ITKs though.

It's worrying that he's not found himself in the team yet. People saying he needs time to get up to speed / wait his chance etc when Ryan Kent walks right into the starting 11 as soon as he's here.

There's some amount of denial on here at times.
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That's a good point. It's not as if the CB's have been top performers either.

Something not right with this.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
That's a good point. It's not as if the CB's have been top performers either.

Something not right with this.
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I think it's more a case of Gerrard having his fingers burnt after chopping and changing last year. The centre backs haven't been that bad and Helander hadn't even started pre-season upon signing.
 
He cost us £3.5m so he should be a starter? I give you Eros Grezda. He cost us £2m so he should be a starter. I don’t think so.

Goldson made an unnecessary error against the Dhims. Katic had a horrible day yesterday. Both were immense against Legia. In fact both have been steady all season bar the stuff I’ve mentioned, with Katic probably just edging it in terms of good, consistent form.

Helander will come in when he’s shown he’s good enough to displace one of the others, not because of his price tag. If he comes in for Katic - and that remains the most likely outcome - he’s on a hiding to nothing from the good people of FF I can tell you that now. God help him.
 
Vamos_buffalo said:
Katic has been outstanding bar today and the Tim’s where the whole lot were pish

If he was ever going to start Helander I think it’d of been today.

I’d be surprised if he split up the defence for Thursday
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It was the first Europa League group game that our defense was split up last season as Joe Worrrall came in for Katic against Villarreal.

Whos to say something similar won't happen again...
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Heard a few weeks ago that he was struggling to make an impression and posted it on here. Was denied by ITKs though.

It's worrying that he's not found himself in the team yet. People saying he needs time to get up to speed / wait his chance etc when Ryan Kent walks right into the starting 11 as soon as he's here.

There's some amount of denial on here at times.
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If he was training well he would have been given more game time - as let's be honest our CBs could be doing with a rest here and there.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
He cost us £3.5m so he should be a starter? I give you Eros Grezda. He cost us £2m so he should be a starter. I don’t think so.

Goldson made an unnecessary error against the Dhims. Katic had a horrible day yesterday. Both were immense against Legia. In fact both have been steady all season bar the stuff I’ve mentioned, with Katic probably just edging it in terms of good, consistent form.

Helander will come in when he’s shown he’s good enough to displace one of the others, not because of his price tag. If he comes in for Katic - and that remains the most likely outcome - he’s on a hiding to nothing from the good people of FF I can tell you that now. God help him.
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Gerrard has repeatedly said the reason he has such a big squad is that when players aren't performing he has others ready to step up and take the jersey off them. That moment is right now as far as our central defence is concerned. Nothing to do with me thinking he should be a starter due to his price tag - he deserves to be given a chance to prove he can be though.

And I disagree with the point that our defence has been steady all season. The fact that we've been playing poorer opposition that haven't punished us as much as they should has masked their deficiencies for me. Even in the Progres ties when we were in total control, we still managed to gift them 2 or 3 big chances out of absolutely nothing. Both legs against Midtjylland we also switched off for spells in the game which they scored from.

Throughout the season we've been poor when it comes to defending set pieces as well. This isn't just a reaction to yesterday where we were terrible for it - but in almost every game we've played this season we've completely switched off during at least 1 set piece in which the opposition could/should have scored from.

If Gerrard doesn't give Helander or Edmundson a look in at this point he either has a blind spot when it comes to our central defence, or he just isn't keeping his word about allowing players to claim the jersey when others are performing poorly. Helander and Edmundson have both looked assured whenever they've played so far.
 
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westenclosurebear said:
It's a great comment.

Pena, Herrara
Grezda, Barasic

We've fucked up a few significant transfers in recent years.
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Wouldn’t include BARISIC! In this , he will play on Thursday , reckon he only never played today as he played two games for Croatia during the week , Halliday hasn’t even been in squads and barisic has been at least a substitute , he will purely of been a sub for a break if possible and will start Thursday
 
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