Time for change posters on every seat today

[Portadown_Bear]

The line about "no billionaires" waiting to take over always gets trouted out. Fans protesting aren't calling for that at all just sensible changes.

If the excuse is that we can't compete with Celtic because of money then why did Aberdeen finish above us twice? Why have St Johnstone won more Scottish/league cups than us since 2015? Two clubs who we are light years ahead of in every metric available even going back to season 15/16/17 etc.

So we want to get rid of Ross Wilson because Aberdeen finished above us before Ross Wilson arrived at the club?

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

Does that include getting rid of the investors and directors who saved the club?

Same guys that have poured in over 45M in the last two years (35M in shares and 10M in long terms loans to the club to fund Ed House)

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

It’s not directed at the owners, it’s Ross Wilson and Smirky Robertson

But the owners/investors appointed them. They also give those guys the operating and transfer budgets and provide the constraints that fans want to complain about.

 

[Blueknows]

How were we not viable competition to win the Scottish cup when we beat them in the semi final of that competition in 2016?

Perhaps you can pin the blame solely on managers and just ignore everything else at the club but how many do gaffers do you blame for failure before change happens? We've had seven and counting in the dugout since this board took over.

You are going back to the Scottish Cup final against Hibs in 2016. Really? That is beyond bizarre. We beat a scum team in the semi-final of that competition that were most likely the biggest odds on favourites price of any team ever to have competed an Old Firm match but you take the final, which everyone I have ever heard express a view blamed Warburton for losing after taking the lead, as a rod to beat Robertson and Wilson, who didn’t even arrive at the club until after Gerrard, with.

Sorry, I’m afraid you are one of those people who haven’t listened to directors, both King and Park, who have said we are a long term project with a few years yet to go, a project that was front end loaded to achieve a specific goal, stopping Terry Munro, which it did but that couldn’t go on, as a £23m loss in the accounts of 20/21 showed.

 

[Blueknows]

So we want to get rid of Ross Wilson because Aberdeen finished above us before Ross Wilson arrived at the club?

Absolutely wild isn’t it. I wonder how many of these people pushing this nonsense would be happy if their performance at work 5 and 6 years ago was used by their gaffers to get rid of them.

 

[tumsheeheed]

I’m not a fan of either of them but with the amount of injuries we’ve had it’s very hard to judge if the player trading is a failure or not from Wilson.Robertson is Motherwell level at best I’d say the lack of communication is staggering he comes across as a smarmy I’m greater than you type of arrogant no mark hopefully he’ll get replaced all he ever says is I’m a supporter too is that it pal.

 

[JW1988]

But the owners/investors appointed them. They also give those guys the operating and transfer budgets and provide the constraints that fans want to complain about.

But that is just football.

Team underperforms, do you get rid of an entire team or do you replace the management?
The management as they're easier to replace.

The footballing board are (by the fans view) underperforming, do you get rid of them or the owners and board of directors who employ them?
You get rid of the underperforming football board as they're easier to replace.

 

[TheHistorian]

Wilson. The issue most of the support has is that everyone THINKS he signs the players. The reality is that nobody actually KNOWS how involved he is. He oversees the Scouting network and manages the first team administration, but as for signings, I think that falls solely to the management team, but again we don't know.

Robertson. Been here 7 years or so. Oversaw 55 or Operation Stop10. Oversaw Europa League Final. Oversaw UCL group stage. Record turnover. NEH. Blue Sky Lounge, etc .
Failing? Australia? Wouldn't say that's down to him. A lack of communication? Definitely, but what's to communicate? He's employed by the board and therefore he's held to a different standard. He will no doubt be the sacrifice.

There is similar confusion about the role of the UB. Set up as a group to improve the atmosphere, which generally had been a success.

However as a protest group, they don’t seem to be as credible.

Especially when lecturing the manager, as well as the board, about “standards” in one protest, then portraying the police as pigs and b*stards the next.

They seem to be attempting to reinvent themselves as a fans representative group. But with no visible organisation or openly democratic structure.

Anyhoo failure to communicate openly with the support in general is not a good look for any fans organisation. Especially if complaining that the board are doing likewise.

Maybe it would be better for all if they just stick to the original purpose they set out to achieve.

 

[tazzabear]

Final thoughts on this but it's not just one or two fluke results in cup competitions but several and all to clubs with much lower wage bills and transfer spending than Rangers.

Hibs, Aberdeen X2, St Johnstone, Motherwell and St Mirren just off the top of my head.

We've also beaten teams in Europe with wage bills miles in advance of what we have so that in some way proves money isn't the only issue here.

Yip, one-off games when we’ve let ourselves down and the other team have taken advantage.
Happened under Souness and Smith and Advocaat and Smith again.
We’d beat these teams eight times out of ten, at least.
That’s the difference between the league and the cups as well.
Also, it’s the reason why the scum didn’t win trebles in the seasons we weren’t there to stop them either.
Money isn’t the only issue?
No, you’re quite right there.
It helps cover the other deficiencies though.

 

[Twosignals]

Apart from youngsters wanting success yesterday! look at the posters having a good time stirring it up, when you review their posts, the majority would appear to be from the dark side. That’s one thing about FF we attract some freaks/scum! even on H&H David Edgar has acknowledged there’s some on there, ah the magic of, “RANGERS”

 

[Boyblue62]

Ok, using this attitude then, no fan should ever turn on a manager and ask for them to be sacked?
Same premise at play surely?

But we turn on every manager we have ever had on here.
Every old firm loss - manager has to go!!!

 

[Boyblue62]

Certainly she is

What does she do better - been in charge of a couple of small clubs?

 

[Boyblue62]

So are the UB saying that Wilson and Robertson are solely responsible for our non success(mostly)? Also are they responsible for poor signings? Did our manager(s) not have a say in signings?
The last 2 signings seemed to be deemed good by everyone.
Next it will be the board, who saved us and have ploughed in £M’s.

Who cares what the UB say.
A bunch of entitled young guys trying to be Ultras and influence the club with their views.
Bored with them to be honest.

 

[Boyblue62]

Michael Beale is on record as recently as during the January transfer window saying that when he worked under Steven Gerrard no player was foisted on them Gerrard/Beale et al and they chose the first team players. GVB said that he and his coaching team picked the players. Beale spoke publicly and often about wanting Cantwell and Raskin. Those three managers, Gerrard, van Bronkhurst and Beale, have chosen all the first team players signed during Wilson’s tenure.

This information from the 3 managers doesn’t suit the agenda of some of course.
Undoubtedly all 3 would prefer to choose better players but the available budget, the players who are willing to come to the backwater that is the Scottish Premiership, the players that the manager wants along with other factors obviously affect who we can attract.

Add on the latest demand from many supporters that we should discount any notion of signing players who have an injury record and the available player pool becomes very much smaller. Thankfully we didn’t do that during the early nineties otherwise we would never have signed Gascoine or Laudrup both of whom had previously had serious knee injuries.

Good point.

 

[tazzabear]

Good point.

It is but it still doesn’t reduce the noise from those wanting Wilson out because of our recruitment.
The bigger issue for me, regarding Wilson, is that I don’t truly understand what his remit is, what he’s responsible for.
And I’d bet I’m not the only one with this ignorance either.

 

[Maestro72]

I’ve been critical of them but honestly I don’t agree with this.

That mob have outspent us and if we’re being totally honest OVERALL Wilson and Robertson have done a fairly good job.

 

[Boyblue62]

I’ve been critical of them but honestly I don’t agree with this.

That mob have outspent us and if we’re being totally honest OVERALL Wilson and Robertson have done a fairly good job.

What hurts many on here is , we cannot compete with their spending.
unfortunately is a fact of life.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

What hurts many on here is , we cannot compete with their spending.
unfortunately is a fact of life.

Ok, so if we’re using Celtics spending as a reason why we can’t compete with them, then why did we drop points against St Johnstone, St Mirren, livingston and Hibs that have budgets a fraction of ours?

The reason we’re 9 points behind Celtic isn’t solely down to our results against Celtic

 

[BigDadosBandage.]

I’ve been critical of them but honestly I don’t agree with this.

That mob have outspent us and if we’re being totally honest OVERALL Wilson and Robertson have done a fairly good job.

If you think Ross Wilson is doing a fairly good job then you are off your head. Our footballing department is a fuckin shambles.

Off the park they are able to outspend us, for the most part, because they have a player trading model that works, which is his Wilsons remit.

On the park, we've had injury after injury I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to link that back to a decision made to reshuffle the medical department and send our head of first team medical to the B team. A decision made by Wilson.

In terms of individual players. There's 2 players in Kent and Morelos, that at their peak were likely worth 35-40 million between them that could potentially both be gone for Fanny Adams come June.

We're staring the down the barrell of having to unceremoniously remove the "worlds most successfull club" signage down from Auchenhowie. And Wilsons fingerprints are all over it. And for the dubious honour we've likely lined his pockets to the tune of circa one million quid. I'd make him fuckin do it himself if it comes.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

Who cares what the UB say.
A bunch of entitled young guys trying to be Ultras and influence the club with their views.
Bored with them to be honest.

“Who cares what the UB say”

I’m not entirely sure if everyone that took part in Saturday hang on the UBs every word but they obviously agreed with them enough to join in the protest

 

[Boyblue62]

It is but it still doesn’t reduce the noise from those wanting Wilson out because of our recruitment.
The bigger issue for me, regarding Wilson, is that I don’t truly understand what his remit is, what he’s responsible for.
And I’d bet I’m not the only one with this ignorance either.

We don't know his remit , but his remit is his business.

 

[Boyblue62]

Ok, so if we’re using Celtics spending as a reason why we can’t compete with them, then why did we drop points against St Johnstone, St Mirren, livingston and Hibs that have budgets a fraction of ours?

The reason we’re 9 points behind Celtic isn’t solely down to our results against Celtic

Those 9 points were down to the manager - his style , our fitness, and injuries.
Its not difficult to see this season is the worst in our history for injuries.

 

[Boyblue62]

“Who cares what the UB say”

I’m not entirely sure if everyone that took part in Saturday hang on the UBs every word but they obviously agreed with them enough to join in the protest

Nah - some just held it up for the sake of it.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

Nah - some just held it up for the sake of it.

Some may well have but are you able to comment on absolutely everyone that held it up that aren’t UB?

Many people unaffiliated to UB held them up and agreed with the protest. So clearly they spoke for those individuals

 

[L1872M]

Some may well have but are you able to comment on absolutely everyone that held it up that aren’t UB?

Many people unaffiliated to UB held them up and agreed with the protest. So clearly they spoke for those individuals

I don't know a single Rangers fan who disagrees with the protests. Really can't understand where folk like above are getting these beliefs from.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

I don't know a single Rangers fan who disagrees with the protests. Really can't understand where folk like above are getting these beliefs from.

Precisely. No one is claiming UB speak for a majority of fans, frankly no one can safely say whether they do or don’t on the matter. I don’t think they’ve ever claimed they speak for a majority of fans.

But on the flip side, you can say they don’t speak for anyone other than themselves when people unaffiliated have shown support with the protests

 

[Boyblue62]

Some may well have but are you able to comment on absolutely everyone that held it up that aren’t UB?

Many people unaffiliated to UB held them up and agreed with the protest. So clearly they spoke for those individuals

I only say what I see.

 

[Boyblue62]

I don't know a single Rangers fan who disagrees with the protests. Really can't understand where folk like above are getting these beliefs from.

I know many.
Its just a matter of opinion.

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

No mismanagement? Our medical team is a joke. We’ve spunked £13m+ and not one player can be regarded as a good use of funds. Sydney nonsense. Contractual situation with 2 of our biggest assets and now they’ll be leaving for free.

I think there’s been a lot of mismanagement

You do know that some of those guys are seeing medical specialists OUTSIDE the club and getting their treatment.

Also, had we played Sydney, we would have had 2-2.5M quid that could have been used in the transfer window January. It baffles me when folks get offended by the club making money (and expanding the brand) in Sydney because they don't want to be associated with Celtic and then want to increase allocations to appease Celtic just so they can spend the blue pound in their shitehole of a stadium.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

You do know that some of those guys are seeing medical specialists OUTSIDE the club and getting their treatment.

Also, had we played Sydney, we would have had 2-2.5M quid that could have been used in the transfer window January. It baffles me when folks get offended by the club making money (and expanding the brand) in Sydney because they don't want to be associated with Celtic and then want to increase allocations to appease Celtic just so they can spend the blue pound in their shitehole of a stadium.

I’ve covered this in other threads but I’ll flip what you’ve said and ask you this;

Why are the board happy being the support act in Anges homecoming in Australia, pocketing £3m in the process to be the Bside, but they won’t engage with the Celtic board here on domestic matters? They’re willing to get their souls and milk the fans dry to rinse out every last penny.

So basically you’re happy being the support act in Anges homecoming but don’t understand why fans want to follow the team in our biggest away games of the season, against our biggest rival?

They’ll have a relationship with Celtics board so long as it benefits them financially…

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

I’ve covered this in other threads but I’ll flip what you’ve said and ask you this;

Why are the board happy being the support act in Anges homecoming in Australia, pocketing £3m in the process to be the Bside, but they won’t engage with the Celtic board here on domestic matters? They’re willing to get their souls and milk the fans dry to rinse out every last penny.

So basically you’re happy being the support act in Anges homecoming but don’t understand why fans want to follow the team in our biggest away games of the season, against our biggest rival?

They’ll have a relationship with Celtics board so long as it benefits them financially…

You may desperately think it was "Ange's homecoming" but I didn't. I thought of it as a way to add much needed revenue/turnover to the club to help pay for increased wages or transfers fees. In addition, it helps expand the brand which could also help with scouting and merchandise sales. From a business sense, it's what normal folks without "short dick" syndrome do to grow.

The club has to be self sustainable to avoid the mistakes of 2012. There isn't a magical unicorn wanting to come in to dump in tons of money into the Scottish game to fund losses after losses. We lost 85M from 2012 until last year when we made our first profit in over 12+ years.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

You may desperately think it was "Ange's homecoming" but I didn't. I thought of it as a way to add much needed revenue/turnover to the club to help pay for increased wages or transfers fees. In addition, it helps expand the brand which could also help with scouting and merchandise sales. From a business sense, it's what normal folks without "short dick" syndrome do to grow.

I have no doubts that there would’ve been benefits of playing the Australia friendly, my response you’ve just replied to was pointing out that there’s multiple perspectives based on the friendly

The board happy to climb into bed with Celtic so long as the finances add up.

Short dick syndrome. Amazing patter. You’ve really got me with that one

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

But that is just football.

Team underperforms, do you get rid of an entire team or do you replace the management?
The management as they're easier to replace.

The footballing board are (by the fans view) underperforming, do you get rid of them or the owners and board of directors who employ them?
You get rid of the underperforming football board as they're easier to replace.

Yes, but folks are upset at the on field results.

(1) We replaced Gio and Beale's record since coming on board is utterly fantastic.
(2) We cannot control what Celtic does. Yes, we are winning but so are they. Other than in our head to heads, we cannot control what they do.
(3) We brought in a new manager who has managed to get better player "results" from guys that were underperforming under Gio. Is that Robertson or Wilson's fault that Gio failed to utilize the team he was given adequately? No, it was Gio's and he is gone.
(4) Roberson and Wilson work with a budget and set of directives established by the major owners/investors that sit on the Board. Our "lack of funds" that we allegedly didn't spend..it wasn't Wilson who dictated the amount. It was our budget which was established the same guys that were putting 45M in the club to off-set COVID losses and to fund Ed House.


We had a really good window with Cantwell and Raskin coming in. Tillman has been solid and a guy like Davies is starting to really cement a place in the starting 11 week in/week out. Can someone else come in and do better? Possibly, yes. Can they do worse? Possibly, yes. There are no magic pills to swallow that magically turns things around immediately.

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

I have no doubts that there would’ve been benefits of playing the Australia friendly, my response you’ve just replied to was pointing out that there’s multiple perspectives based on the friendly

The board happy to climb into bed with Celtic so long as the finances add up.

Short dick syndrome. Amazing patter. You’ve really got me with that one

Conversely, the Board also seem ok with not jumping into bed with Celtic to increase away allocations for their filth in order to protect season ticket holders.

Appreciate the last sentence Tiny.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

Conversely, the Board also seem ok with not jumping into bed with Celtic to increase away allocations for their filth in order to protect season ticket holders.

Appreciate the last sentence Tiny.

But it’s absolutely nothing to do with season ticket holders, it’s because it would eat into the available seats they’d have left to sell as offsite hospitality and retain for club use. Let’s not forget they’re reliant on seat sub/secondary ticketing to be able to offer a decent amount to mygers

Tiny. Amazing patter once again.

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

But it’s absolutely nothing to do with season ticket holders, it’s because it would eat into the available seats they’d have left to sell as offsite hospitality and retain for club use. Let’s not forget they’re reliant on seat sub/secondary ticketing to be able to offer a decent amount to mygers

Tiny. Amazing patter once again.

So in order for the club to meet Celtic's demands, no season ticket holders would be affected by increasing the allocation? That's news to me.

 

[Skylon Niagara]

So in order for the club to meet Celtic's demands, no season ticket holders would be affected by increasing the allocation? That's news to me.

If a European allocation was implemented, it would mean all season ticket holders gain access to the Ibrox games against Celtic. On multiple threads there’s people saying they’d only support a European allocation as it means all season ticket holders would gain access to the stadium.

They would be affected as in some would be relocated, much like Scottish cup games and European games, however they wouldn’t be locked out. I can’t speak for everyone but I wouldn’t personally support anything that meant even 1 season ticket holder was locked out

I think given the club want to retain some tickets for club use, the allocation we could offer Celtic would be slightly less than European allocations

 

[tazzabear]

We don't know his remit , but his remit is his business.

I think it reasonable to know his remit.
Maybe not his actual KPI’s.

 

[Boyblue62]

I think it reasonable to know his remit.
Maybe not his actual KPI’s.

But do we know anyone else's remit.
Do any supporters at any club know their DOF remit?

 

[Hoosier Ranger]

Michael Beale is on record as recently as during the January transfer window saying that when he worked under Steven Gerrard no player was foisted on them Gerrard/Beale et al and they chose the first team players. GVB said that he and his coaching team picked the players. Beale spoke publicly and often about wanting Cantwell and Raskin. Those three managers, Gerrard, van Bronkhurst and Beale, have chosen all the first team players signed during Wilson’s tenure.

This information from the 3 managers doesn’t suit the agenda of some of course.
Undoubtedly all 3 would prefer to choose better players but the available budget, the players who are willing to come to the backwater that is the Scottish Premiership, the players that the manager wants along with other factors obviously affect who we can attract.

Add on the latest demand from many supporters that we should discount any notion of signing players who have an injury record and the available player pool becomes very much smaller. Thankfully we didn’t do that during the early nineties otherwise we would never have signed Gascoine or Laudrup both of whom had previously had serious knee injuries.

I think Gio also stated something similar about having a say in transfers.

To think Wilson just throws players at these managers without consultation or approval is fantasy.

 

[Blueknows]

I don't know a single Rangers fan who disagrees with the protests. Really can't understand where folk like above are getting these beliefs from.

You must have a very limited group of fans you know then. The UBs are wonderful doing what they were supposed to be but in many other ways they are an embarrassment and seem think they, whoever they are, are the Rangers support.

 

[Blueknows]

Some may well have but are you able to comment on absolutely everyone that held it up that aren’t UB?

No more than you or anyone else contributing to this thread can say everyone supports the UBs action.

Anyway where do the UBs get the impression that they have a right to decide who should or shouldn’t be employed by the club, or weaponise the song book or disturb a minute mark of respect, or disrespect the chairman by singing a song deemed sectarian by UEFA leading to the club being sanctioned through fines and partial stadium closure.

 

[L1872M]

You must have a very limited group of fans you know then. The UBs are wonderful doing what they were supposed to be but in many other ways they are an embarrassment and seem think they, whoever they are, are the Rangers support.

I'm not going to sit here and list everyone I know but can assure, its far from very limited.
Do you believe the majority of the support disagree with the protests?

 

[Skylon Niagara]

No more than you or anyone else contributing to this thread can say everyone supports the UBs action.

Anyway where do the UBs get the impression that they have a right to decide who should or shouldn’t be employed by the club, or weaponise the song book or disturb a minute mark of respect, or disrespect the chairman by singing a song deemed sectarian by UEFA leading to the club being sanctioned through fines and partial stadium closure.

Any fans group can make a statement if they want.
Weaponise the song book? More than just the UB sing banned songs and at Motherwell on Saturday, NPOR was started by normal fans outwith the UB section
Yes BF1 was closed for the Legia game but Billy boys was sung in Poland and also banned songs are sung by fans in different areas, even in Europe

You could’ve just wrote “I hate the UB” and saved yourself the bother

 

[Andrew webb]

What does she do better - been in charge of a couple of small clubs?

She is vocal and good at job
Have you see Robertson at AGM treats shareholders and fans as customers
For what Robertson gets paid he definitely isn't value for money

 

[Ted Dibiase]

I find it embarrassing watching the tramps win countless trophies whilst we have a squad full of duds and injury prone wasters.

So do I mate

 

[Andrew webb]

What does she do better - been in charge of a couple of small clubs?

So was Robertson at Motherwell
Hardly set heather on fire

 

[Andrew webb]

Ok, so if we’re using Celtics spending as a reason why we can’t compete with them, then why did we drop points against St Johnstone, St Mirren, livingston and Hibs that have budgets a fraction of ours?

The reason we’re 9 points behind Celtic isn’t solely down to our results against Celtic

Good point

 

[Blueknows]

They’ll have a relationship with Celtics board so long as it benefits them financially…

It may sound pedantic but the (contractual) relationship would be with the sponsor not the scum’s board just as we play in a league where we have a relationship with the SPFL not any other club or clubs.

Where do you get it benefits THEM financially? It would benefit the club not the directors who have never taken a penny in directors fees. Whether you like it or not, and I personally would not have voted for the proposal, the directors are duty bound to maximise shareholder value. £3m would have provided about £2.5m by UEFA Financial Sustainability regulations to squad costs, which is about the reported sum of the transfers of Cantwell and Raskin combined, which could have seen transfers equivalent to Cantwell and Raskin incoming. Didn’t want to play the scum in Sydney but desperate to get to their midden to give them money while having to reciprocate by having more of their scum in Ibrox at about £50 a skull reducing the number of high value (what £200 a time) hospitality packages our club can sell.

Wouldn’t question anyone‘s bona fides as Rangers supporters but the business acumen is severely lacking in some.

 

[Andrew webb]

Who cares what the UB say.
A bunch of entitled young guys trying to be Ultras and influence the club with their views.
Bored with them to be honest.

Ok they they mistakes but they enhance atmosphere especially at home game s
never stop singing
And the Tifo shows especially at European night s and Hibs game were fantastic
When in bronby Union bears stepped in when our fans were getting attacked when walking afterwards to train station