Time for change posters on every seat today

TheDerryend

Well-Known Member
Again though isn’t that what separates a club like Rangers from other clubs, that expectation of success that applies to everyone associated with it?

Without that we’re just another club.

We should never be happy to just be here.
Us and them are only in the position we are, because the 2 clubs dwarf the rest. Very big fish in a very small pond.

Our haul of european trophies proves this along with both of us and them in this seasons cl. We will only get up there by playing in another league. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer our bigger clubs to give us a challenge here in scotland, but that's further away than ever.

2 teams chasing most trophies in a country, is not a recipe for success, but that's what it's basically came down to.
 

King Richard Gough

Well-Known Member
Us and them are only in the position we are, because the 2 clubs dwarf the rest. Very big fish in a very small pond.

Our haul of european trophies proves this along with both of us and them in this seasons cl. We will only get up there by playing in another league. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer our bigger clubs to give us a challenge here in scotland, but that's further away than ever.

2 teams chasing most trophies in a country, is not a recipe for success, but that's what it's basically came down to.
Yeah I don’t disagree.

At the heart of these protests though I’m guessing is the fact we are being heavily outgunned by them when it comes to winning trophies recently.

In a two horse race, if you’re not winning your fair share of races, then questions begin to get asked.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to question all at the club from the top down. Robertson and Wilson are not exempt from that.
 

TheDerryend

Well-Known Member
Yeah I don’t disagree.

At the heart of these protests though I’m guessing is the fact we are being heavily outgunned by them when it comes to winning trophies recently.

In a two horse race, if you’re not winning your fair share of races, then questions begin to get asked.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to question all at the club from the top down. Robertson and Wilson are not exempt from that.
That's fair enough, but although people think that 2012 is long gone, I still feel it has caused a lot more damage than we could ever imagine.

I believe we will get back among the trophies, as that's what happens in football. Wether we will have a long run of domination is another thing. Let's just get on an even sharing of the trophies and take it from there.
 

Broxi12

Well-Known Member
Us and them are only in the position we are, because the 2 clubs dwarf the rest. Very big fish in a very small pond.

Our haul of european trophies proves this along with both of us and them in this seasons cl. We will only get up there by playing in another league. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer our bigger clubs to give us a challenge here in scotland, but that's further away than ever.

2 teams chasing most trophies in a country, is not a recipe for success, but that's what it's basically came down to.
You have summed up Scottish football, concluding that it;s 5hite.
Couldn't agree more
 

OohAhHuistra

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Started reading this thread at the game at half time today, commented then put my phone back in my pocket for the second half, mentioned to @OohAhHuistra what a car crash it was even then!
You certainly did mate, wish I never looked now. At least we had a good second half to enjoy anyone saying the majority didn’t hold up the small posters either wasn’t at the game or lying.
 

Spart7

Well-Known Member
Money wasn’t available after 55 because Gerrard wanted no one sold, which he got, and we had made a £23m loss for the year. We can’t spend major money even if it were available and be compliant with UEFA Financial Sustainability regulations. Also we are under special monitoring by UEFA of our financial position. How many times does this need to be said.
Constantly, because noone listens.
 

HillsBill

Well-Known Member
Why don’t you educate us then?

No one’s shouting at the investors so what has them putting money in got to do with it?
Loads are shouting at the investors. In fact, it’s difficult to know exactly who wants what. Robertson and Wilson don’t decide how much money is available, so anyone shouting about not investing after 55 are aiming the main board and the investors. Another names Park (but not which one), others want new Rangers men (whatever they are). The list goes on.
 

Chester Loyal

Well-Known Member
I feel a little uncomfortable with the protests towards Robertson and Wilson tbh.

The Wilson protests I can understand as I think he’s performed poorly recently but im not sure why there is so much hate for Robertson.
 

TamBuffel

Well-Known Member
Anyone against this or those who cannot see the wider issue here when it comes to what we are or are not currently achieving has accepted mediocrity.
Rangers should be winning trophies, it’s that simple.
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
He said it in yesterday’s interview after referencing the display. Unless he’s still crying over last week.
Less time crying about fans more time winning trophies please Michael.
I didn't see him mention it yesterday as only watched the Cantwell and Tavernier interview and a wee pitchside interview.

I think Beale will win us trophies.
 

Ranger1003

Well-Known Member
Should probably be made a sticky at the top of the Bear Pit.

Entitled nonsense from a section of our support.
We're 10 months from having been to a major European final, an injury crisis away from going for 3IAR (in my opinion). We've a new manager with a record of W18 D1 L1 (I think) since he came in. A section of fans have lost all perspective regarding where we are, considering where we've been.

Im neither for or against it to be honest as i cant make my mind up but to say at the killie game it was a section the support is just wrong id say 80% of the ground were clapping
 

JD1872

Well-Known Member
I feel a little uncomfortable with the protests towards Robertson and Wilson tbh.

The Wilson protests I can understand as I think he’s performed poorly recently but im not sure why there is so much hate for Robertson.
I doubt anyone involved in the protests is a position to judge what Robertson is doing in his day to day job. He is not as vocal as we would like from someone in his position but that is a criticism that applies to everyone involved in running the club and it needs to change.

I can understand the Wilson protests, ultimately he is in charge of the recruitment process which has been largely unsuccessful since he came in and we always seem on the back foot with contract negotiations. I would not be surprised if he moves on in the summer
 

Tagsbear

Well-Known Member
We fucked up by not turning the starting XI over after 55. Whether that was at the behest of Gerrard or not, I don't know, but that was the time for the much vaunted player trading model to kick in.

We stood still and have paid the price since.

There wasn't any money, £20 odd million losses after Covid and the 55 season.
 

GBY74

Active Member
Beale for me 100% right when he says we should get behind the team and pull in the same direction but protests will always happen when Supporters feel aggrieved.
We've been playing 2nd fiddle to Celtic for too long. We had the chance of a prolonged period of success after winning the title and the board didn't invest which has resulted in us watching our rivals dominate again. I understand people saying they saved the club etc but they don't appear to know how to run a successful football club and that will always result in unrest especially at a club as big and successful as Rangers.
 

SDF91

Well-Known Member
I doubt anyone involved in the protests is a position to judge what Robertson is doing in his day to day job. He is not as vocal as we would like from someone in his position but that is a criticism that applies to everyone involved in running the club and it needs to change.

I can understand the Wilson protests, ultimately he is in charge of the recruitment process which has been largely unsuccessful since he came in and we always seem on the back foot with contract negotiations. I would not be surprised if he moves on in the summer
I think the Robertson protests are down to a lack of transparency and a perceived lack of effectiveness.

The board typically don’t follow through on plans in the timeline they say they’re going to, don’t provide an explanation why targets have been missed, don’t seem to have any significant influence on Scottish football and don’t engage with us in any meaningful way. He’s responsible for the day to day running of the club, so he’s the natural target for that frustration.
 

Tagsbear

Well-Known Member
What money have Ross Wilson and Stewart Robertson put in to the club - two people the protest were directed at?

I have no feelings either way about Wilson and Robertson, they're just employees of the board, who do put millions in, if they aren't performing how the financial backers expect they'll be replaced.

However, you just need to read this thread to see how it is being misconstrued, folk 'warning' Douglas Park and others saying the 'board' should step aside and 'allow' people to come in and spend big, like there are folk queuing up to do so.
 

Barrymoped

Well-Known Member
There was money there as we had been doing reasonably well in Europe, we sold Patterson for a lot of money and had numerous players that we could've cashed in on.
There really wasn’t money there at all, the published accounts show that. Selling Patterson was essential to cover our losses, even with that we required more than £10million in directors loans to see the season out functioning as a normal club.

Gerrard insisted on keeping the squad together, so we had the choice of either upsetting the manager who just won us 55 in an unbeaten season, or doing what we did, which was keep the squad together and give him a couple of free transfers as there was simply no cash available.

I have no idea why people continue to deny these established facts
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
We've been playing 2nd fiddle to Celtic for too long. We had the chance of a prolonged period of success after winning the title and the board didn't invest which has resulted in us watching our rivals dominate again. I understand people saying they saved the club etc but they don't appear to know how to run a successful football club and that will always result in unrest especially at a club as big and successful as Rangers.
Yes, we should have invested and the board have made mistakes but who do we get in instead?
 

SDF91

Well-Known Member
There really wasn’t money there at all, the published accounts show that. Selling Patterson was essential to cover our losses, even with that we required more than £10million in directors loans to see the season out functioning as a normal club.

Gerrard insisted on keeping the squad together, so we had the choice of either upsetting the manager who just won us 55 in an unbeaten season, or doing what we did, which was keep the squad together and give him a couple of free transfers as there was simply no cash available.

I have no idea why people continue to deny these established facts
You could have sold the likes of Morelos, Kamara and Patterson that summer, let’s say for a combined £30m. That’s basically all profit as their transfer fees would have been amortised to literally nothing by that point.

Even if you spent £20m of that on new players and gave them all four year contracts, you’re booking a £25m gain in the accounts for 21/22. That squares the FFP position.

The board should have been able to sell the financial reality to Gerrard and if he wasn’t onboard, pressed on with what was best for the club anyway by implementing the player trading model.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
We fucked up by not turning the starting XI over after 55. Whether that was at the behest of Gerrard or not, I don't know, but that was the time for the much vaunted player trading model to kick in.

We stood still and have paid the price since.

How many teams sell their assets after having success and go on to have more immediate success?

IMO it was quite right to keep the group together as much as possible at that stage.

Perhaps we could have sold one, maybe two at a push but then there's no guarantee that would have led to major transfers incoming as we still lost 23m that year, and that was with the help of directors loans to see us through. Maybe we still lose 23m and don't get director loans.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
You could have sold the likes of Morelos, Kamara and Patterson that summer, let’s say for a combined £30m. That’s basically all profit as their transfer fees would have been amortised to literally nothing by that point.

Even if you spent £20m of that on new players and gave them all four year contracts, you’re booking a £25m gain in the accounts for 21/22. That squares the FFP position.

The board should have been able to sell the financial reality to Gerrard and if he wasn’t onboard, pressed on with what was best for the club anyway by implementing the player trading model.

Everton tried to sign Patterson that summer and we refused and eventually got way more when we did sell him.
 

Taverneeeeer

Well-Known Member
We've been playing 2nd fiddle to Celtic for too long. We had the chance of a prolonged period of success after winning the title and the board didn't invest which has resulted in us watching our rivals dominate again. I understand people saying they saved the club etc but they don't appear to know how to run a successful football club and that will always result in unrest especially at a club as big and successful as Rangers.
The board bailed us out time again. Millions each season to keep us afloat. There wasn’t anything left to invest. Celtic then spent £40m to back ange. We aren’t competing with that overnight.
 

SDF91

Well-Known Member
Everton tried to sign Patterson that summer and we refused and eventually got way more when we did sell him.
Correct. Patterson was just an example of a player who’s transfer fee would have been complete profit for the club.

If we wanted to sell in the summer, we could probably have got more out of Everton than they offered in that window.
 

Barrymoped

Well-Known Member
You could have sold the likes of Morelos, Kamara and Patterson that summer, let’s say for a combined £30m. That’s basically all profit as their transfer fees would have been amortised to literally nothing by that point.

Even if you spent £20m of that on new players and gave them all four year contracts, you’re booking a £25m gain in the accounts for 21/22. That squares the FFP position.

The board should have been able to sell the financial reality to Gerrard and if he wasn’t onboard, pressed on with what was best for the club anyway by implementing the player trading model.
We made a £25million loss, so if we sold these players for £30million, (we recieved very few bids for any I might add), then spent £20million on replacements, how on earth could we have made a £25million profit?

I get it’s timing with registrations etc for what sale goes in what year’s accounts, but all that cash still needs paying back, it doesn’t just disappear, as is evidenced by the amount of loans we still have to directors right now.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
Correct. Patterson was just an example of a player who’s transfer fee would have been complete profit for the club.

If we wanted to sell in the summer, we could probably have got more out of Everton than they offered in that window.

There was a 33m hole to be filled. Director loan plus the eventual losses. I dont think selling anybody would have made much available for transfers that summer.
 

Taverneeeeer

Well-Known Member
Andy McGowan’s mega threat on this from last night is excellent and probably where I am overall. Wilson has more misses than hits but that’s improving it seems. Robertson is now preciding over a time of financial security for us for the first time in over a decade. The board have put in millions of their own cash and their is no sugar daddy in the wings. We should be careful what we wish for in wanting them hounded.

Football is so important to us that seeing that lot win titles blinds reality. They can spend what we cant. We aren’t going to close that gap overnight. It comes fron smart recruitment (beale) and player trading (cantwell, raskin, tillman etc) and we are doing that.

We didn’t have the funds to back the team after 55 when Gerrard failed to get to the UCL. Thats on him. We could do with that lot frittering money on a few duds. But even if they dont, with 3 or 4 starters promised for the summer, do I think we will topple them next season? You better believe it
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
Andy McGowan’s mega threat on this from last night is excellent and probably where I am overall. Wilson has more misses than hits but that’s improving it seems. Robertson is now preciding over a time of financial security for us for the first time in over a decade. The board have put in millions of their own cash and their is no sugar daddy in the wings. We should be careful what we wish for in wanting them hounded.

Football is so important to us that seeing that lot win titles blinds reality. They can spend what we cant. We aren’t going to close that gap overnight. It comes fron smart recruitment (beale) and player trading (cantwell, raskin, tillman etc) and we are doing that.

We didn’t have the funds to back the team after 55 when Gerrard failed to get to the UCL. Thats on him. We could do with that lot frittering money on a few duds. But even if they dont, with 3 or 4 starters promised for the summer, do I think we will topple them next season? You better believe it

Do you have a link to that please?
 

SDF91

Well-Known Member
We made a £25millio loss, so if we sold these players for £30million, (we recieved very few bids for any I might add), then spent £20million on replacements, how on earth could we have made a £25million profit?

I get it’s timing with registrations etc for what sale goes in what year’s accounts, but all that cash still needs paying back, it doesn’t just disappear, as is evidenced by the amount of loans we still have to directors right now.
A £25m gain in the accounts. Not necessarily all of that would be bottom line profit.

£30m gain on selling those three players (because their unamortised transfer fee would be non existent by that point), £5m amortisation charge for the £20m worth of players we signed on 4 year contracts, so a £25m gain in the 21/22 accounts.

As for the cash, the instalment payments out could have been matched off against the instalment payments coming in.

The directors were prepared to put that money in and since they did, it’s safe to assume they would have done anyway. Serious player trading the summer after 55 would have us in a significantly better financial position than standing still.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
A £25m gain in the accounts. Not necessarily all of that would be bottom line profit.

£30m gain on selling those three players (because their unamortised transfer fee would be non existent by that point), £5m amortisation charge for the £20m worth of players we signed on 4 year contracts, so a £25m gain in the 21/22 accounts.

As for the cash, the instalment payments out could have been matched off against the instalment payments coming in.

The directors were prepared to put that money in and since they did, it’s safe to assume they would have done anyway. Serious player trading the summer after 55 would have us in a significantly better financial position than standing still.

Thats an assumption you are making.
 

SDF91

Well-Known Member
Thats an assumption you are making.
An assumption based on what the board actually did.

And to add, a much more sensible use of the directors loans than the “keep Stevie happy” narrative that surrounds our failure to implement the board’s player trading policy.
 
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GBY74

Active Member
There really wasn’t money there at all, the published accounts show that. Selling Patterson was essential to cover our losses, even with that we required more than £10million in directors loans to see the season out functioning as a normal club.

Gerrard insisted on keeping the squad together, so we had the choice of either upsetting the manager who just won us 55 in an unbeaten season, or doing what we did, which was keep the squad together and give him a couple of free transfers as there was simply no cash available.

I have no idea why people continue to deny these established facts
Gerrard insisted on keeping the squad together is rubbish the board would have had to have told him of the financial situation we were in and therefore he'd have known that all reasonable offers for the players would've been considered. I don't doubt those on the board are successful businessmen but they do not appear to have the ability to run a successful football club and the longer it goes on that we are trailing Celtic the louder the protests will become.
 

GBY74

Active Member
Andy McGowan’s mega threat on this from last night is excellent and probably where I am overall. Wilson has more misses than hits but that’s improving it seems. Robertson is now preciding over a time of financial security for us for the first time in over a decade. The board have put in millions of their own cash and their is no sugar daddy in the wings. We should be careful what we wish for in wanting them hounded.

Football is so important to us that seeing that lot win titles blinds reality. They can spend what we cant. We aren’t going to close that gap overnight. It comes fron smart recruitment (beale) and player trading (cantwell, raskin, tillman etc) and we are doing that.

We didn’t have the funds to back the team after 55 when Gerrard failed to get to the UCL. Thats on him. We could do with that lot frittering money on a few duds. But even if they dont, with 3 or 4 starters promised for the summer, do I think we will topple them next season? You better believe it
Where was the backing for GVB after he did get us to the UCL group stages.
 
Does that include getting rid of the investors and directors who saved the club?
Post nails it
This board has put a lot of their own cash into the club when we needed especially the support they gave Stevie G to stop their 9 n 3/4 or 10 whatever way you see it bringing in roofe itten making hagi deal happen paying the wages to keep Defoe that helped build the squad up to winning 55
They will always have my gratitude for that biggest mistake was not either extending or selling Kent alfie and big joe that summer but I believe that was the gaffer that made that mistake
 
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