Time for change posters on every seat today

I’m not disagreeing but I don’t know I was at fir park but I didn’t hold up the flyer maybe would if people put people forward
 
Skylon Niagara said:
Ok, so if we’re using Celtics spending as a reason why we can’t compete with them, then why did we drop points against St Johnstone, St Mirren, livingston and Hibs that have budgets a fraction of ours?

The reason we’re 9 points behind Celtic isn’t solely down to our results against Celtic
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In the same way we lost to Berwick Rangers and Celtic lost to Caley. Every dog has its day.
 
Fortunately, the board and main investors aren’t driven by short term emotion. They’ve just about got us back to sustainability, which will ensure we will be here for many years to come. They know that’s not enough but they’ll get the next stage right - their way.
 
GovanFront4 said:
New manager in the job too late because the board delayed the inevitable.

He has done well in his time, and perhaps if we made the change earlier we would be competing.

Two good signings I agree, but they were made when the league was already effectively done. We have a history of a poor recruitment strategy under this leadership.
Months after a European final which we never capitalised on, was dampened a bit by the board strategy with the regards to the warnings to fans continuously in the lead up to the final, lack of action related to fan treatment at the match, lack of screenings for fans staying at home, not kicking on from a position of strength.

It can be twisted either way tbh but I do stand by the fact that if it was led by people other than UB then it would be backed more on here. I also think it's rich from people to criticise the protest when they were complaining about fans shouting down the We Deserve Better campaign.
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In the grand scheme of what can go wrong at a football club, those things are not worthy of protest in the eyes of some of our fans.

Even if you are correct about the Union Bears, what does that say about them and how they conduct themselves?
 
James19 said:
In the grand scheme of what can go wrong at a football club, those things are not worthy of protest in the eyes of some of our fans.

Even if you are correct about the Union Bears, what does that say about them and how they conduct themselves?
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I think people blame the UB for a lot of issues that are nothing to do with them. The UB being the most vocal makes them easiest to blame for everything, but that's another thread.
 
GovanFront4 said:
I think people blame the UB for a lot of issues that are nothing to do with them. The UB being the most vocal makes them easiest to blame for everything, but that's another thread.
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The more I think about it, the more I believe it would help their cause if they articulate the issues they believe have prompted the protest. This would help clear up what they believe the issues are and would allow people to make an informed decision whether to support them going forward

Stevie 4Lads has explained his position and although he doesn’t claim to speak for others, he does have people that follow his blog and support him. Maybe some clarity over what the UB perceive the issues to be would help
 
Blueknows said:
I would struggle to disagree with anything you have put here.

However, had the board sold either one or both, if there were any offers, in the face of Gerrard’s insistence all his title winning squad be retained with the likely outcome that Gerrard walked after winning 55 the supporters would have gone ballistic. It would have been the correct business decision but simply couldn’t be done in the face of Gerrard’s opposition. Can you imagine the headlines right around the world? Also, the damage it could have done to attracting new players might have been very substantial. So I do agree with you but for these reasons just don’t think it could have happened.

Going forward absolutely and I would come down in favour of letting it be known that’s what will happen.
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That's a fact - I just don't think people appreciate the complexity of the situation.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Also would add that had this protest been arranged by certain FF posters, H&H or any of that clique, then those critical of it would definitely be all for it. People putting their hatred of the UB ahead of how they actually feel.
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I don't think anyone 'hates' the Union Bears.

And talk of cliques takes me back to the dark days when we fkd fan ownership.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
The more I think about it, the more I believe it would help their cause if they articulate the issues they believe have prompted the protest. This would help clear up what they believe the issues are and would allow people to make an informed decision whether to support them going forward

Stevie 4Lads has explained his position and although he doesn’t claim to speak for others, he does have people that follow his blog and support him. Maybe some clarity over what the UB perceive the issues to be would help
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I agree mate. I also don't know if I'm at the stage of full blown protests. However, I will stand by that the negative opinions on this thread are people not wanting to support the UB rather than supporting the two people it's aimed at.
I think there definitely has to be more strategic thinking from the UB, but ultimately Ultras will always have the biggest voices in the stadium and it just comes with the territory. And as far as Ultras protests go this is nothing in the grand scheme of things. For context Milan Ultras had banners AGAINST Maldini in his final match at the San Siro because he criticised them, so I don't think it's fair to say this protest is OTT.
 
adidasler said:
I don't think anyone 'hates' the Union Bears.

And talk of cliques takes me back to the dark days when we fkd fan ownership.
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Fan ownership was always a pipe dream mate. I admire clubs that have it but I couldn't see it working at Rangers in a million years.

And people in the support definitely hate the UB, some reasons can be understanble, some just a weird jealousy vibe.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Fan ownership was always a pipe dream mate. I admire clubs that have it but I couldn't see it working at Rangers in a million years.

And people in the support definitely hate the UB, some reasons can be understanble, some just a weird jealousy vibe.
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You know what, I think there was a moment in time when it was achievable and definitely not a pipe dream - Our circumstances have changed now and the moment has passed.

Minor disagreements and online tittle tattle around the UB do not = hatred.
 
adidasler said:
You know what, I think there was a moment in time when it was achievable and definitely not a pipe dream - Our circumstances have changed now and the moment has passed.

Minor disagreements and online tittle tattle around the UB do not = hatred.
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I'm not going by just on here, going by some real life experiences. I'd say for the majority of people it's not at that level, but definitely for some. Although I think they might just like to appear contrarian.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Fan ownership was always a pipe dream mate. I admire clubs that have it but I couldn't see it working at Rangers in a million years.

And people in the support definitely hate the UB, some reasons can be understanble, some just a weird jealousy vibe.
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We have fan ownership. Every director and nearly every shareholder whether they have large or, like me, small shareholdings is a fan. You can’t get more complete fan ownership than we have. We are as near 100% fan ownership as is possible since there will always be a few, such as newspapers, who hold a small amount of shares just to get access to general meetings and the like.
 
Blueknows said:
We have fan ownership. Every director and nearly every shareholder whether they have large or, like me, small shareholdings is a fan. You can’t get more complete fan ownership than we have. We are as near 100% fan ownership as is possible since there will always be a few, such as newspapers, who hold a small amount of shares just to get access to general meetings and the like.
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fan ownership means fan organisation having a say
 
Blueknows said:
We have fan ownership. Every director and nearly every shareholder whether they have large or, like me, small shareholdings is a fan. You can’t get more complete fan ownership than we have. We are as near 100% fan ownership as is possible since there will always be a few, such as newspapers, who hold a small amount of shares just to get access to general meetings and the like.
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That's not the 'fan ownership' that was discussed through the years though and I suspect you know that.
 
James19 said:
Pretty much everyone ever connected with Rangers has had it in the neck on here, or elsewhere. That doesn’t mean those opinions should be aired at the stadium as well.

It’s all about timing, and what exactly determines when it’s time to push the ‘protest’ switch.

Taking everything into account:

- new manager only 3 months into the job
- won 17/19 games
- 2 good new signings in the door
- relative position of club compared to Celtic
- matter of months since a European final

Despite frustrations, some people probably don’t think it’s quite at the ‘protest’ stage.
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You missed a bullet point out
• watching/letting the scum stroll to another treble potentially
 
Bri RTID said:
yes, technically

fans within a fan organisation so to speak
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So that’s what we have. Unfortunately they couldn’t agree the first rule of involvement with privileged information that it has to be kept confidential. Hence they no longer get access to privileged information and the opportunity to put their members opinion directly to the club.
 
Blueknows said:
So that’s what we have. Unfortunately they couldn’t agree the first rule of involvement with privileged information that it has to be kept confidential. Hence they no longer get access to privileged information and the opportunity to put their members opinion directly to the club.
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but its doomed to fail

cause a fan group might not be onboard with the fans themselves .....
 
GovanFront4 said:
I think people blame the UB for a lot of issues that are nothing to do with them. The UB being the most vocal makes them easiest to blame for everything, but that's another thread.
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A ridiculous banner directed at our manager a week before a huge semi-final?
Continuous singing of songs that have the potential to damage the club, making them absolute toxic to the board?

At least the Blue Order had a bit of savvy.
 
James19 said:
A ridiculous banner directed at our manager a week before a huge semi-final?
Continuous singing of songs that have the potential to damage the club, making them absolute toxic to the board?

At least the Blue Order had a bit of savvy.
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aye trumpets :D
 
James19 said:
A ridiculous banner directed at our manager a week before a huge semi-final?
Continuous singing of songs that have the potential to damage the club, making them absolute toxic to the board?

At least the Blue Order had a bit of savvy.
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Were you at the Partick game? The vast majority of the stadium were against the decision to award them a goal, as was one of our leading players. People were annoyed whether they like to rewrite history or not.

The Blue Order took part in very unpopular protests.

You talk about damage to the club, the main damage was done before UB were even formed in Pamplona.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Were you at the Partick game? The vast majority of the stadium were against the decision to award them a goal, as was one of our leading players. People were annoyed whether they like to rewrite history or not.
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It doesn’t matter if every single fan in the stadium was against the decision. Creating a banner over the matter, with unfair criticism of the current manager’s comments, was ridiculous, and quite rightly slated by many.

GovanFront4 said:
The Blue Order took part in very unpopular protests.

You talk about damage to the club, the main damage was done before UB were even formed in Pamplona.
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Even more reason for them not to sing similar songs today, especially if they want the board to work with them.
 
James19 said:
It doesn’t matter if every single fan in the stadium was against the decision. Creating a banner over the matter, with unfair criticism of the current manager’s comments, was ridiculous, and quite rightly slated by many.


Even more reason for them not to sing similar songs today, especially if they want the board to work with them.
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If you go to away games you will know the UB are just a small % of fans and these songs are sung by the majority.
 
GovanFront4 said:
If you go to away games you will know the UB are just a small % of fans and these songs are sung by the majority.
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The UB set the tone, especially at Ibrox.

If they made a concerted effort, which they have the power to do, the songs could be removed, and the board might begin listening to them.
 
Bri RTID said:
but its doomed to fail

cause a fan group might not be onboard with the fans themselves .....
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Indeed. There are many who would blame the club for the fan group not want8ng to play by the rules both in respect of dealings with the club, and the absolute need for confidentiality, and taking the pulse of the organisation’s membership.
 
James19 said:
The UB set the tone, especially at Ibrox.

If they made a concerted effort, which they have the power to do, the songs could be removed, and the board might begin listening to them.
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Are the 49k other fans unable to sing over the top of them? Are the other fans unable to start songs? The blame being put on the UB for certain songs is inaccurate.
 
Bri RTID said:
why remove songs?
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If for no other reason the singing of particular songs has and will cause the club reputational damage in addition to the monetary fines and partial stadium closures that have already been levied and those probably more punitive sanctions that are likely in the future. Make no mistake if He’s So Useless becomes First Minister he will force through strict liability and Rangers will be the only target. If that doesn’t convince anyone to stop then I give up. I happen to know it is a real worry for the club hierarchy.
 
Blueknows said:
If for no other reason the singing of particular songs has and will cause the club reputational damage in addition to the monetary fines and partial stadium closures that have already been levied and those probably more punitive sanctions that are likely in the future. Make no mistake if He’s So Useless becomes First Minister he will force through strict liability and Rangers will be the only target. If that doesn’t convince anyone to stop then I give up. I happen to know it is a real worry for the club hierarchy.
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or we can defend our Protestant Orange songs ?

no one think of that?
 
GovanFront4 said:
Are the 49k other fans unable to sing over the top of them? Are the other fans unable to start songs? The blame being put on the UB for certain songs is inaccurate.
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As has been said ad nauseum the UB are the only ones who start songs so they are the origin of whatever gets picked up and multiplies.

There are a few idiots elsewhere in the stadium such as in the SJR who usually get drowned out or lose conviction quickly.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Are the 49k other fans unable to sing over the top of them? Are the other fans unable to start songs? The blame being put on the UB for certain songs is inaccurate.
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The UB view themselves as the singing section or ‘ultras’.

They’re the only group within Ibrox, or the away games, who sit together, presumably ‘rehearse’ or discuss their songbook, and have the power/ability to instantly get a song going.

If they want to be taken seriously by the club, if they want safe standing, if they want to move or expand, if they want to gain the respect of all fans, their songbook needs to change. It’s actually went backwards since they started.

Bri RTID said:
why remove songs?
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- because singing songs about the Pope and Catholics is not a great image.
- because we have a squad full of Catholic players.
- because eventually they’ll get the club into trouble, again.
 
Bri RTID said:
or we can defend our Protestant Orange songs ?

no one think of that?
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Don’t think anyone has said anything to the contrary although a number have expressed extreme dissatisfaction with references to such as Bobby Sands. The songs that cause problems are well known and they have been made known to the UB by the club’s senior management, and us all for that matter. Any indication that the ‘problematic’ songs and the add ones are not known is simply nonsense.
 
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Blueknows said:
Don’t think anyone has said anything to the contrary although a number have expressed extreme dissatisfaction with references to such as Bobby Sands. The songs that cause problems are well known and they have been made known to the UB by the club’s senior management, and us all for that matter. Any indication that the ‘problematic’ songs and the add ones are not known is simply nonsense.
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You are fighting a losing battle on here.
 
Blueknows said:
So who is going to finance it?
The support are the only customers the club has, unless you think Doncaster is suddenly going to achieve EPL type TV and commercial contracts, which would be shared out anyway so giving us no advantage over rivals.

We need to get real. Yes we might build a strong team over time, something like Brighton have, but it will be the exception rather than the rule. Money talks and such as Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool and probably soon Newcastle will nine times out of ten best a Brighton. Bayern, PSG and Real Madrid/Barcelona similarly in their leagues.
Unless we are willing to pay more be that season tickets, replica kit, lottery tickets or whatever their spending power will, in the short to medium term, win out.

However if you can point to a league where the biggest budget doesn’t more often than not win I’ll admit defeat.

Harsh but true and it can surely only be a mater of time before the wider support realise it.

As an aside the newly introduced, from June 2022, UEFA Financial Sustainability regulations effectively hamstring clubs like us in leagues like ours preventing them moving upward by ‘sugar daddy’ cash injections. Even if we were bought over by Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos jointly they couldn’t inject significant cash. These regulations are a large part of why Newcastle have spent relatively little since being taken over despite having access to the Saudi Sovereign Wealth fund.

Having written all that doom and gloom hopefully Michael Beale proves to be an inspired appointment and the club continues on an upward trend, and no-one attempts to lure him away to the EPL or elsewhere.
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Well for a start it helps if the club is run properly.

Again, if you think the model to simply lumber the fans with the most expensive tickets, merch etc you're very naive as to where that can get us.
 
Now and forever said:
Well for a start it helps if the club is run properly.

Again, if you think the model to simply lumber the fans with the most expensive tickets, merch etc you're very naive as to where that can get us.
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The club is run properly. With the exception of 20/21 due to COVID the club accounts have shown improvement year on year. That is evidence endorsed by financial experts.

If not the fans then where can UEFA compliant money come from?
 
Blueknows said:
The club is run properly. With the exception of 20/21 due to COVID the club accounts have shown improvement year on year. That is evidence endorsed by financial experts.

If not the fans then where can UEFA compliant money come from?
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Nonsense

And the money should be coming from football money, player trading etc. Last year was the exception on that.
 
Now and forever said:
Nonsense

And the money should be coming from football money, player trading etc. Last year was the exception on that.
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What is nonsense and what is the etc. on top of player trading?

And in what universe will player trading in Scotland become the equivalent of such as Ajax or Brighton?

We need to realise that substantial extra money, such as we received for Bassey, over what we put in as ‘customers’ is in no way reliable and reliable money is required to plan forward improvements.
 
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