Time for huge tactical change?

Earl of Leven

Earl of Leven

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In essence we are still honing the Warburton tikki takki from 4/5 years ago. Yes there are tweaks, and I'm sure some tactical genius will put me right, but it's a sub Barca / sub Liverpool thing.

Sadly it's massively unsuitable for SPL. We need to win here, not win plaudits in EL for 6/7 games a season. We need the Rangers DNA.

It's funny but you know the thing: blood soaked head bandage, savage lunge on opponent trying to take the piss, two up front, and a physical team who win the battle. The pitches are terrible and many games barely resemble football. We need to adapt as SPL won't.

It's my view that this 433 with inverted wingers and false tens won't stop the Filth as we can't afford the players to make it work. We need a squad of best quality we can afford with the aim of the 38 games we play here, plus Cup ties. The manager and his team need to use next few months to prepare for overhaul of how we play. Thoughts?

Try and be civil, a debate would be brilliant but "%^*& off, WATP" isn't helpful.
 
Reading FF I'm not entirely alone!

I think the idea of top class modern pass and move winning league in style is starting to be let go of by more and more fans.
 
i don't know why they think sit in and hit on the break tactics are going to work in a league where MOST games we play they sit in

but to do it for 2 solid seasons beggars belief
 
The best Managers are proactive and have the ability to change tactics, personnel, shape at any point within games. Conte is the master of it. This should be worked on and be part of our day to day preparation but clearly isn't we stick to a ridged 433. Lennon is doing it to a lesser extent with them.
 
Trying to copy one of the best teams in Europe in like for like tactics with players a fraction of the quality just doesn't work in our league as we can't combat ultra defensive teams.

I would like a back to basics approach with a formation and tactics change.

Something like a modern day 4-2-3-1 could be useful with players in there correct positions.

McGregor

Tavernier Goldson Helander Barisic

Jack Davis

Arfield/Aribo Hagi Kent

Morelos

Full backs bombing forward, one holding midfielder, the other licence to dictate play. The wide players coming inside with a proper number 10 given a free role right behind a striker.

It would be a starting point.
 
Said on another thread, we need to be able to vary our play throughout games.

At the start of the season morelos scored some goals by getting it up to him quickly and him rolling the centre back. When was the last time we did that? Instead we get to watch McGregor short pass it to goldson or katic and for them to pass across the back 4 multiple times.

We allow defences to set themselves into their two banks of 4 and 5 far too easily. Few times in a match why don't we bypass midfield, get it forward quicker to morelos or into the channels.

Doesn't have to be pretty just needs to be effective. Playing intricate football on a pitch like today wasn't going to work
 
I'm afraid Gerrard looks like another modern coach who goes with the 'this is the way we play' mantra.

That seems to buy you time. All I hear is praise for that Norwich manager despite his team being plumb bottom of the league.

It will never work in a job where you have to win at all costs.

My dad used to say Walter Smith knows Rangers fans better than they know themselves and by christ he was right.
 
Uncle Albert said:
I'm afraid Gerrard looks like another modern coach who goes with the 'this is the way we play' mantra.

That seems to buy you time. All I hear is praise for that Norwich manager despite his team being plumb bottom of the league.

It will never work in a job where you have to win at all costs.

My dad used to say Walter Smith knows Rangers fans better than they know themselves and by christ he was right.
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Finest example was ludicrous chancer at Everton, Silva. Handsome, young and explained transitions very well. Utterly shit though.
 
Earl of Leven said:
In essence we are still honing the Warburton tikki takki from 4/5 years ago. Yes there are tweaks, and I'm sure some tactical genius will put me right, but it's a sub Barca / sub Liverpool thing.

Sadly it's massively unsuitable for SPL. We need to win here, not win plaudits in EL for 6/7 games a season. We need the Rangers DNA.

It's funny but you know the thing: blood soaked head bandage, savage lunge on opponent trying to take the piss, two up front, and a physical team who win the battle. The pitches are terrible and many games barely resemble football. We need to adapt as SPL won't.

It's my view that this 433 with inverted wingers and false tens won't stop the Filth as we can't afford the players to make it work. We need a squad of best quality we can afford with the aim of the 38 games we play here, plus Cup ties. The manager and his team need to use next few months to prepare for overhaul of how we play. Thoughts?

Try and be civil, a debate would be brilliant but "%^*& off, WATP" isn't helpful.
Click to expand...

Our formation is awful, we play a front 3 and no matter who plays in it most of them contribute nothing.

Gerrard is hanging Hagi out to dry playing him right wing for no apparent reason.

We looked decent today when kamberi came on, he made the 2 goals and then gerrard changed it back to the old constantly failing formation
 
When our manager says he’s not surprised by the result in his post match interview says it all ... once I heard the team I was fuming but not shocked as we should have started the 11 who won us the game on Thursday night but no he wanted to start the usual players who have been letting us down time and time again ... I’m fucking livid as again we have threw points away , we are needing winners not a wimps
 
Earl of Leven said:
Finest example was ludicrous chancer at Everton, Silva. Handsome, young and explained transitions very well. Utterly shit though.
Click to expand...
Young English coaches IMO now go this way for fear of being bracketed in with Allardyce etc.

"We get it down and play from the back". Literally just saying you do it seems to make you more attractive and given more opportunities.
 
the change to 352 wont happen after motherwell last season. gerrard is frightened of it and its obviously too much work at this time of the season to implement it.

me personally, id keep the formation we have for the EL as it suits europe, but id tend to try and experiment for next season now in the league. for me the league is as good as done now. "no surrender...yadda yadda"
 
We play in Scotland against teams who are on usually pish, get the ball forward a bit quicker put more players forward and put these teams under pressure
Making 10 or more passes across the defence just allows them to get back into shape and the inverted wingers or number 10s just makes it even more congested in the middle of the park
We played with 2 up front for 30 minutes today and it's the most dangerous we have looked since the break
 
In the EPL they wouldn't get away with the way football is played up here, we play a neanderthal style of football. Getting the balance between here and Europe will always be difficult for the modern managers.
 
We just keep going through the same passages of play. It’s easy for teams to play against. It’s boring football, we are hardly creating good chances and then the opponents seem to be able to get in easily.
When we were down in games like Braga, then today we seem to come alive and play with more freedom. Once we took the lead you see the manager changing the team to once again be defensive. Braga started to pin us back again and today St Johnstone get the goal. We are Rangers playing St Johnstone we shouldn’t be trying to see games out. I think he seriously has to look at his coaching team also because they don’t seem to be able to change things, if they are giving recommendations then it’s either not being listened too or he doesn’t trust what they say.
 
We have been trying to play with 3 man attack for around 5 years and have never found wide players to score enough goals to justify it.

We have Jermaine Defoe one of the best goal scorers to play in Scotland why not try a 2 man attack? Just because Klopp and Liverpool play a certain way doesn't mean we need to copy them
 
The formation isn’t the problem it’s the personnel and the tempo in particular , a front 3 with only 1 of them chipping in with goals consistently was always going to bite us in the a*se eventually. Badly need a ball playing centre half that can step out of defence with the ball to start attacks. The constant side passes from Goldson to Katic and vice versa is killing us and making it easy for teams to keep their defensive shape against. Badly missing an Amo or Bougherra type player.
 
When he put Davis on for Morelos and it looked like we were going with three in the middle, Kent in the hole and Hagi up front with Kamberi, I thought that looked like a decent side to see out the game. Then Stewart on for Hagi and it was back to the 4-3-3/Christmas tree formation. Changes should have been made after Hearts.
 
Something needs to change but unfortunately all the signs point to us persevering with the current system. I think this formation works well for Europe but I agree I don't think we can rely on it to deliver a domestic title
 
Not sure there is a huge overhaul in tactics required - prior to the break we were the best team in the league. Since then we have fallen off a cliff. There are some unknowns, physical an/or mental, that may have led to issues with our performances. It does seem, though, that we struggle when teams get in our faces, the pitches are crap (cut up or plastic) which inhibits our passing game and refs allowing more robust challenges compared to other leagues.

Personally, I'd like more energy in midfield. Docherty doesn't suit the technicality of our style, but his energy would have helped. Gerrard also needs to stop picking favourites and give others a chance. Stewart isn't a world beater but he hasn't been given the chances others have been afforded, Docherty as I mentioned previously, Kamberi etc..........

Overall, I think it is more about the personnel being utlised than the tactics used - they have shown they can work.
 
In Gerrard’s defence it was working just fine up until the new year.

I can understand his reluctance to change therefore, but it’s not just a ‘blip’ in form anymore.

The players look bereft of confidence. They’re scared to make a mistake so don’t take risks and as a result we’re flat and pedestrian.

This is when Gerrard earns his corn.

Warburton couldn’t change, he was too one dimensional, but Gerrard actually has the alternative staring him in the face and it’s the one he implemented at half time.

That’s the obvious route to take. It might not work every week, but it’s going to pose more problems for the bog standard sided we play more often than not.

Question is: can Gerrard let go of his Klopp lite tiki taki blueprint and embrace it?
 
Earl of Leven said:
The switch to 3-5-2 was indeed best we've looked since December. Didn't last long. 25 minutes?
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IMO 3-5-2 suits everyone bar our most expensive signing. We're currently shoehorning him into a number 10 role that he's clearly not suited to. Everything great about his game is his ability out wide when going at a full back. Not once have I thought that Kent was the type to thread through wee passes through packed defences. We're doing him and ourselves no favours asking him to continue this role.

IMO, If Gerrard persists with this 4-3-2-1 formation then the two needs to be Aribo and Hagi.
 
Three lightweight midfielders generally dont work away from home in the SPFL

I think Gerrard is too wedded to 433 in all games - its almost a pride thing for him imo

You need to win midfield to win these games, so you either need an extra body in there, or personnel with legs that can fight for and retain possession. I'm afraid our current crop do not look able to do this, either because their legs are going (Davis, Arfield), or they are not as good as we think they are (Jack, Kamara)

We also badly need better finishing from the whole team, but particularly from the front three
 
The system has to change.

He has an obsession with trying to copy the way Liverpool are playing. Flat midfield 3 and 3 attackers with the use of balls in behind and crosses from the full-backs. The issue is, there is absolutely no need for 3 central midfielders in 99% of the games we're playing in the league. In Europe and against Celtic, sure it's fine. We're playing against teams whose only objective is to sit back and ruin the game. They have no intention of actually opening up and attacking, other than a long ball over the top hoping one of our defenders will make a mistake or to pick up a second ball and move on from there.

Our best periods in games since the end of December have came when we've played Morelos and Kamberi together. The other teams are struggling with being able to cope with both, so Gerrard has to lose the Liverpool obsession and develop a system to utilize 2 strikers. If not, he'll be out the door in the summer.
 
4-4-2 for "easy" games
4-5-1 for "difficult" games

Win the physical battle first, allows better players to play
(the most important point, SPL is all about physicality and winning personal battles week in week out)
A strike partnership that will have two strikers linking up and they will score 20+ goals each domestically.
Wide players who can chip in with 10-15 goals each.
A midfield who takes responsibility and does what's required, gets in the other teams faces, players who know how to win ugly.
Defenders who know how to defend and clear their lines first and foremost. If it means a big brute of a centre back at full back, so be it. Think Sasa Papac or dare I say it Broadfoot types.
A captain who motivates the rest of the team when they are not at it, a captain who has not been a part of multiple Rangers squads who have won hee haw.


This is what we need, until the above is addressed we will not be winning any titles.
 
4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 are two options that really need a good look at and given a chance against the majority of the teams in this country. As it stands we cant have Kent playing on the inside as his game just doesn't suit it particularly well and Hagi as big a impact he made on thursday is far more suited to playing in the middle as a natural 10. It's not some coincidence that as soon as Kamberi came on and the formation changed there was a spark, far too many players are being held back by a system that doesn't get the absolute best out of them. If Gerrard doesn't change it for next weekend im not sure when he will though.


4-3-3 is a great system when you play teams that will come at you and have a go but it's absolutely dreadful when you're playing teams that are sitting back and just bypassing the far too cautious midfield with long balls unless you have world class attacking players which we dont.
 

A Slightly Higher Calibre Version of "Must do plan A better"?

I love to see football played on the deck, from Holland in 78 it's always been this way. The defence is far superior, BUT it's possession without penetration, and we're still waiting for John Eustace to arrive and lead us. There's nobody capable of grabbing a game by the scruff and changing...
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com

I concur with the OP.
 
SDF said:
IMO 3-5-2 suits everyone bar our most expensive signing. We're currently shoehorning him into a number 10 role that he's clearly not suited to. Everything great about his game is his ability out wide when going at a full back. Not once have I thought that Kent was the type to thread through wee passes through packed defences. We're doing him and ourselves no favours asking him to continue this role.

IMO, If Gerrard persists with this 4-3-2-1 formation then the two needs to be Aribo and Hagi.
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We don’t always agree but that’s a great post.
 
The formation when Kamberi came on was working should stick with it domestically and until the end of the game today but no went back to 4-3-3 and invited them onto us and Katic was having a shocker as a fan of him im gutted for the boy.
 
Noticeable our game has got worse as the pitches got worse. No plan B. Get two upfront, a solid defensive Midfield ball winner who can protect the back 4. Come Wednesday we need a back 5 with a solid 4 in midfield ala Walter Smith.
Gerrard and his coaching teams tactics are too intricate for the Scottish game.
 
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