Title wins by City /Town .

[TBagg]

Yeh they’ve massively underachieved but a few factors I can think of mean it’s not exactly a fair comparison!

- Today, Edinburgh area realistically only half that of Greater Glasgow and has larger migrant population (often from other parts of the UK) who don’t have local roots (anyone who has worked in Edinburgh & Edinburgh will know what I mean - found the workplaces in both radically different, strong English influence in one Edinburgh office worked in!)

- A century or so ago as the footballing culture began to be set, Glasgow also used to have a far greater proportion of the Scottish population. No surprise then there’d be more teams in Glasgow which attracted bigger crowds. Then even tonnes of folk moving to new towns in the east to clear the city had roots in Glasgow.

- Football a more traditionally working class game so obviously with Glasgow having a bigger working class community it’d take hold stronger. Still think it’s a myth that rugby is the more popular sport but Edinburgh is more affluent and I found folk aren’t as passionate about their clubs - ie lots of fair weather Hibs/Hearts fans.

- Probably also a case of us and them doing well early and the support showballing from there across the country which would carry on for generations.

- Take the whole religious rivalry for those who support Rangers/Celtic outside the city. Bigger in every scale in Glasgow than Edinburgh which is seen as a smaller scale version. Obviously the bigger one is more attractive to indulge in.

Anyway, sorry for going on! Actually read Hearts had a great team in the 1910s who went to fight in WWI in McCrae’s Battalion. Had the war not happened, theory is they’d have become Edinburgh’s premier team by some distance and a force to be reckoned with on par with Rangers and Celtic. Instead they bravely fought and after the war so many deaths and injuries had occurred, then struggled to re-find form of before. Just bad luck and instead the two clubs (Hibs and Hearts) just looked at each other to give themselves purpose.

Hearts have fans from the Dunblane to Duns and all points in between. Just not as many as us and the stinkies

 

[Myogi]

What has caused that though?

Why do us and them have such a wide spread fan base?

As others have said the religious aspect played a big part, however one thing people forget is in the 30s Glasgow had over 1 million people when scotland only had around 4 million. Glasgow today has 600k+ and those 400k didnt just dissapear they moved to new towns and other cities for jobs and a better quality of life and they took thier football allegience with them.

 

[Dale Cooper]

64-65 was a strange season

 

[L&D RSC]

86-87 was the last time Scotland had a multi team competitive top flight before a ball was kicked.

If Rangers, celtic, aberdeen, hearts or dundee utd won that title, it would not have been seen as a major footballing shock.

Obviously we had the Souness revolution starting, but nobody was as confident as we should have been, given the hideous league performances of the early 80's.

 

[Schwab Vader]

I know the reasons why, I just find it strange it panned out that way. You would have thought a city like Edinburgh, with only two major clubs, would have had more success in the early days of Scottish football and managed to maintain a large fan base at each club. It’s bizarre that Rangers and Celtic just dominated from the very beginning and pretty much sustained it for 150 years. Obviously the religious and political backdrop to the OF made the rivalry more attractive to fans far and wide, drawing support from neighbouring cities.

Also should add that the Greater Glasgow conurbation is over twice the population size of Edinburgh, then you have the Glaswegian diaspora which is spread out all over the UK and anglosphere.

Edinburgh city is only similar to the population size of Glasgow thanks to their cities footprint now representing twice the size of Glasgow City’s footprint.

 

[Gary]

Yes but why is that? It isn't unreasonable, given the size of each City, to suggest that Hearts and Hibs should be as big as Rangers and them.

You are only looking at the City populations. The Glasgow Metro area has about 900,000 more people in it than the Edinburgh version and Scotland only has 5 million odd people so that's quite a significant difference.

 

[Noddy]

Aberdeen won 3 titles 4 Scottish cups ECWC in the 80s without much support from Glasgow.

Yip, with a team and manager that comes along once in a blue moon. Other than 1991 they've been nowhere near a title since.

 

[Noddy]

Yes but why is that? It isn't unreasonable, given the size of each City, to suggest that Hearts and Hibs should be as big as Rangers and them.

Because they are successful and young kids ignore their local team to support Rangers and Celtic.

 

[Bocanegra]

Aberdeen won 3 titles 4 Scottish cups ECWC in the 80s without much support from Glasgow.

Still needed a manager, captain, goalkeeper and goal scorer from Glasgow though.

 

[vicbex]

And people wonder why other stadiums are empty. Seriously, what incentive do these fans have to fork out a load of money when they have no chance of winning the league and we know the winner every year before a ball is kicked?

Correct. We could change the way money is distributed AND introduce an affordable and sustainable salary scale for all players or just carry on playing to see who gets 10 in a row first.

Its embarrassing.

 

[vicbex]

As others have said the religious aspect played a big part, however one thing people forget is in the 30s Glasgow had over 1 million people when scotland only had around 4 million. Glasgow today has 600k+ and those 400k didnt just dissapear they moved to new towns and other cities for jobs and a better quality of life and they took thier football allegience with them.

Very good point. Id never considered that before.

There are 5 'new' towns. Cumbernauld, Glenrothes, Irvine, East Kilbride and livingston.

 

[MO_TxTruBlu]

The Kilmarnock win in 1965 must be one of the most impressive given the teams Rangers and Celtic had in the 60s

Hearts (1960) and Dundee (1962) also won the League in the early 1960's, and both were very good sides.
Kilmarnock were Runners Up 4 times in 5 seasons just before they won it.
Rangers were the the outstanding team in those early 1960's.
Celtic did nothing in those first five years of the decade.
Third Lanark, Partick Thistle and Celtic all managed a 3rd place finish as their best effort.

 

[mfgorm]

I’m sure Rangers won 5 titles before Govan became part of Glasgow so technically Govan is 3rd on the list.

I make it 7. Govan was absorbed into Glasgow in 1912. Still 3rd.

 

[AlbertaBlue]

Only 19 years ever that us or them haven’t won the title, crazy can’t imagine any other professional league is similar.

I think I've only seen 21 for us in my near 59 yrs which sucks. However, the 12 we won when I was aged between 23-36 will live with me for ever. Prime age and absolutely fabulous times. Feel for the Bears around 30 just now

 

[HandsomeHead]

It’s bizarre that neither Edinburgh club has won since 1960. Capital City, similar population to Glasgow. Why are they so shite?

Up until the 1960s Glasgow had over a million people in it and was the second biggest city in Britain. Edinburgh was less than half the size.

Even today the Greater Glasgow urban area has about 1.25m people in it whereas Edinburgh isn’t much over 500,000.

 

[Noddy]

I think I've only seen 21 for us in my near 59 yrs which sucks. However, the 12 we won when I was aged between 23-36 will live with me for ever. Prime age and absolutely fabulous times. Feel for the Bears around 30 just now

Only 21 and it sucks? There's fans will follow their team all their days and never get a sniff of a trophy, never mind a title.

 

[HandsomeHead]

In terms of league titles Glasgow must have the most in the whole of Britain?

Different leagues I appreciate and the English has always been more competitive, but Liverpool and Manchester both have maybe only 30 titles each?

Belfast is probably close right enough, especially if you chuck in the now defunct Belfast Celtic.

 

[AlbertaBlue]

Only 21 and it sucks? There's fans will follow their team all their days and never get a sniff of a trophy, never mind a title.

It is when our league is practically a two horse race and your City rivals get 11 more in the same period

 

[VGM]

Love threads like this. It’d be interesting to see the English equivalent.

Prompted me to see who were the first league winners in the big European leagues.

Scotland - Rangers/Dumbarton.
England - Preston North End.
Spain - Barcelona.
Italy - Genoa.
Germany - FC Locomotive Leipzig.
France - Standard Athletic Club.
Dutch - VV Concordia.

Bayern’s history was a surprise. By 1970 they’d only won 2 leagues. In 1997 they won their 14th title. Just assume they’ve always won. Shows how CL money has propelled those in a position to take advantage of it.

Bayern didn’t overtake Nuremberg as the most successful team until 1989 I am pretty sure.

 

[TheFantasticNinetiesFox]

Up until the 1960s Glasgow had over a million people in it and was the second biggest city in Britain. Edinburgh was less than half the size.

Even today the Greater Glasgow urban area has about 1.25m people in it whereas Edinburgh isn’t much over 500,000.

Also should add that the Greater Glasgow conurbation is over twice the population size of Edinburgh, then you have the Glaswegian diaspora which is spread out all over the UK and anglosphere.

Edinburgh city is only similar to the population size of Glasgow thanks to their cities footprint now representing twice the size of Glasgow City’s footprint.

Interesting. Must admit I didn’t realise there was such a significant difference between the populations of Greater Glasgow and Edinburgh. Certainly makes more sense now. Although, even still it is quite incredible that Rangers and Celtic have sustained such dominance over a 150 year period. It’s obviously multi-factorial.

 

[cskasofia]

You are right. I always had in my head that they only managed a draw and needed a win

With 2 late goals, total sickener.

 

[cskasofia]

Cheers mate. Worked a couple of jobs and lived there for a while so was just my observations!

Had a job in an office in the Haymarket area and there seemed to be a mix of us/them/Hearts/Hibs in almost equal measure. But most football chat would be about the Premier League due to quite a few English folk or locals preferring those teams. So it’s a pretty watered down support for the Edinburgh teams.

In Glasgow, where I work now, office is very much 90% us or them and it’s what dominates a lot of the work night out banter. The rivalry just feels more ingrained in the culture here than the Edinburgh teams do in that city.

Being born in the 60's, this is the biggest Hearts and Hibs average attendances I can recall seeing. In particular when compared to the late 70's early 80's, when I seem to remember both clubs getting crowds well below 10 000. I realise our crowds were a lot less then as well, but we still could occasionally bring in a 40 000 plus crowd, eg old firm, European nights, odd Aberdeen game if it meant something.
In the 80s, when Aberdeen were dominant, they were getting about 16 000 for non old firm games. But I remember reading that if Hearts were in their position they would be getting about 20 000 as they were the recognised 3rd biggest club in Scotland.

 

[simply_the_best]

Because St Mirren fielded a team of Bheggars in 86

Hearts only needed a draw at Dens and blew it themselves.

We beat Motherwell 2 0 that day to secure 5th place

 

[Tiny_Kilby_Loyal]

The Kilmarnock win in 1965 must be one of the most impressive given the teams Rangers and Celtic had in the 60s

Dundee as well.Hibs and Hearts were very good championship winning teams as well in the 50’s and 60’s.

 

[Lanark Bear in the NE]

In terms of league titles Glasgow must have the most in the whole of Britain?

Different leagues I appreciate and the English has always been more competitive, but Liverpool and Manchester both have maybe only 30 titles each?

Belfast is probably close right enough, especially if you chuck in the now defunct Belfast Celtic.

Manchester United have 20 and Liverpool 19. Next on the list is Arsenal on 13.

In term of cities, Manchester and Liverpool both have 28 titles and London has 21.

Trailing behind are Birmingham on 7, Sunderland on 6, Sheffield on 5 and Newcastle on 4.