To those saying no progress

Zapp Brannigan said:
Depends what you consider a 'big game'. If we'd failed to beat St Johnstone then plenty would have called that a big game he failed to win. As it was, we won and it's ignored. Same with the QF against Thistle - it was a big game until we won it (albeit in ET).
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Sorry I don't want to take this thread in another direction, but to answer your question I consider big games to be against the filth, the sheep, Hivs, European games and late stages of cups. We have lost everyone I just mentioned. Suggesting that if we got beat against St Johnstone it would be considered a big game does nothing to help that argument.
Your main point seemed to be about making progress and of that I am not disputing. But you cannot dispute my "big games" point which is plain to see.
 
The Diplomat said:
Sorry I don't want to take this thread in another direction, but to answer your question I consider big games to be against the filth, the sheep, Hivs, European games and late stages of cups. We have lost everyone I just mentioned. Suggesting that if we got beat against St Johnstone it would be considered a big game does nothing to help that argument.
Your main point seemed to be about making progress and of that I am not disputing. But you cannot dispute my "big games" point which is plain to see.
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I personally don't consider Hibs a big game. Scum, yes. Aberdeen, yes and we haven't played them this season. Cup later stages, I'll give you but I still think the Thistle one was big. European games, of course.

I'm not really arguing his record in games, it's a side point where I am probably in agreement that he has mostly failed. I just don't see that as the only thing I'm judging him and his team on.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
I'm guessing nobody bothered to watch yesterday back before replying. Your minds are made up, I get that. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you are claiming this team is no better than last year's. It's patently obvious to anyone watching that we are better. Not good enough yet, but better.
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I agree with you. People seem to just go for the jugular through the hurt of the defeat, rather than rally around and get behind the manager. It was starting to come together in the last two games and in the first half yesterday if Windass could finish and the ref do his job we would have been going into the 2nd half at least a few up and with them down to 9 men. Its fine lines, composure from Windass in front of goal and a referee not calling the game correctly when we were in the ascendency which cost us. You should get out what you put in but the ref once again done us no favours. Motherwell came out in the second half and blew us away but they should never have been allowed to given what had went before. Regardless, we should have still been able to come out on top. Pedro as long as he can stay within touching distance should get the season for me, there is progress and each game is a steep learning curve for the players, its sink or swim and they will decide Pedros future.
 
The Diplomat said:
Sorry I don't want to take this thread in another direction, but to answer your question I consider big games to be against the filth, the sheep, Hivs, European games and late stages of cups. We have lost everyone I just mentioned. Suggesting that if we got beat against St Johnstone it would be considered a big game does nothing to help that argument.
Your main point seemed to be about making progress and of that I am not disputing. But you cannot dispute my "big games" point which is plain to see.
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Considering St. Johnstone's position the last few years, it's a game in the higher echelons of the league, so I wouldn't dismiss it. If we hadn't won there, a number of people on FF wouldn't be dismissing it.
 
mfgorm said:
Progress in comparison to where we were when Pedro took over, but nowhere near where we should be at this stage.
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Where we should be? Where is that, exactly?

After gutting the whole team, we are only 6 points adrift with being cheated out of 5 of those at least. We can't string three wins together? Name another team that has when they get booted and elbowed up and down the park without any protection?
 
Wee calvey bear said:
And in what way are they better?
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Already said, mate. We are a better team to watch at times than we were previously. Our performance in the first half yesterday, St Johnstone. We make chances...until yesterday we were putting a fair amount away. The players are better and the general touch and movement has improved.
 
Oh, brother!

It’s like a re-run of last season.

Dominating games yet losing.

How can that be?!
 
It's Groundhog Day..

Motherwell, Hibs, Partick, Progress

We don't take chances and our arse collapses - it's a trend the OP only reiterates that
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
I watched Warburton's team and saw no signs of life, so I gave up on him even before last season started. I saw similar in McCoist and PLG - no chink of light at all. But this is different. Yes it may be two steps forward, one back, but there are steps forward. Let's do ourselves a favour and be honest about that.
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There were more signs of life in PLG's team - Europe, for example. And if Sebo sticks away last minute chance, we beat Celtic 2-1.

There's no tangible progress from Pedro. What signs vs. Celtic did you see? That was Pedro's 3rd game against them.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
I'm guessing nobody bothered to watch yesterday back before replying. Your minds are made up, I get that. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you are claiming this team is no better than last year's. It's patently obvious to anyone watching that we are better. Not good enough yet, but better.
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We are just a different kind of bad......
 
The OP wants us to re-watch the game to see how much we "bossed" the 1st half of a game we ended up losing?? Give me f*cking peace! We were horrendous and if there is an improvement on last season then it is only a slight improvement. We needed a big improvement and for the money given to him we should have got it.
 
Progress has been minimal considering the amount that has been spent in the summer.

Might be wrong here but being slightly less shite than this time last year was probably not the overall objective.
 
ManhattanBlue said:
There were more signs of life in PLG's team - Europe, for example. And if Sebo sticks away last minute chance, we beat Celtic 2-1.

There's no tangible progress from Pedro. What signs vs. Celtic did you see? That was Pedro's 3rd game against them.
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Honestly, we were a match for them for most of the first half and between their first and second. Not enough I agree, but I'm not saying we are there yet, only that we are better than we were and that we should acknowledge that.
 
Leo_Ger said:
Progress has been minimal considering the amount that has been spent in the summer.

Might be wrong here but being slightly less shite than this time last year was probably not the overall objective.
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I reckon the overall objective was to tighten the gap and show progress. At this point, we have no idea if the first will happen, but the second has begun.
 
TPB90 said:
The OP wants us to re-watch the game to see how much we "bossed" the 1st half of a game we ended up losing?? Give me f*cking peace! We were horrendous and if there is an improvement on last season then it is only a slight improvement. We needed a big improvement and for the money given to him we should have got it.
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You only need to watch it if you're going to come away with shite like "we were horrendous" because it's simply not true.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
I'm guessing nobody bothered to watch yesterday back before replying. Your minds are made up, I get that. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you are claiming this team is no better than last year's. It's patently obvious to anyone watching that we are better. Not good enough yet, but better.
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This reminds me of a few years ago whilst working down in Portsmouth.My mate and I went to a game against Man U and got talking to the local fans.They were telling us about their centre forward and one remark was "He's certainly improved since last season when he was shite-this season he is only crap"
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Honestly, we were a match for them for most of the first half and between their first and second. Not enough I agree, but I'm not saying we are there yet, only that we are better than we were and that we should acknowledge that.
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People keep forgetting the gap off the pitch has never been bigger.

One Celtic player cost nearly as much as our first 11 FFS. Not to mention wages.

We cannot compare any Rangers managers tenure in the Premier League to PC's. It is not the same.

Half of FF cannot accept Pedro or any new Rangers manager WILL lose games. It's not 1998 anymore and never will be.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
I reckon the overall objective was to tighten the gap and show progress. At this point, we have no idea if the first will happen, but the second has begun.
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I reckon the overall objectives for this season with the money spent would be a minimum of 2nd place, competing for the cups and getting further than the 1st QR in the Europa League.

Already behind Aberdeen in the league, papped out of a cup semi final by a diddy team in Motherwell and humiliated in Europe.

Doubt the overall objective was as vague as negligible progress.
 
I agree that there has been progress and we should have been out of sight by half time.
However we weren't and once Motherwell went ahead we never looked like winning.

I've supported Pedro and still do at the moment, but if we slip any further behind Aberdeen and the mentally challengeds by the beginning of December I'm afraid I don't see any way back for him.

He has a relatively easy run of games coming up.
He must make the most of it.
 
napierbear said:
People keep forgetting the gap off the pitch has never been bigger.

One Celtic player cost nearly as much as our first 11 FFS. Not to mention wages.

We cannot compare any Rangers managers tenure in the Premier League to PC's. It is not the same.

Half of FF cannot accept Pedro or any new Rangers manager WILL lose games. It's not 1998 anymore and never will be.
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So a comparable gap to us v Thistle, Motherwell etc then aye?.
 
Hibs isn't a big game but St. Johnstone and Partick Thistle are? Aye OK. Mental gymnastics. None of which puts us back in the Europe Cup, League Cup or changes the fact we are trailing Aberdeen.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
I agree that there has been progress and we should have been out of sight by half time.
However we weren't and once Motherwell went ahead we never looked like winning.

I've supported Pedro and still do at the moment, but if we slip any further behind Aberdeen and the mentally challengeds by the beginning of December I'm afraid I don't see any way back for him.

He has a relatively easy run of games coming up.
He must make the most of it.
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I agree with you on this. I've always wanted him to get at least half a season, ideally more if we see progress (both performances and results). I still feel the results will come as performances are getting better, if inconsistent. If we are in a similar position after the Aberdeen games then there is no way back, even I can't go forever without seeing performances turn into results.
 
sudamericaranger said:
Hibs isn't a big game but St. Johnstone and Partick Thistle are? Aye OK. Mental gymnastics. None of which puts us back in the Europe Cup, League Cup or changes the fact we are trailing Aberdeen.
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Why is Hibs a bigger game than St Johnstone? Thistle was a cup game, not the opposition that made it big.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
I'm guessing nobody bothered to watch yesterday back before replying. Your minds are made up, I get that. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you are claiming this team is no better than last year's. It's patently obvious to anyone watching that we are better. Not good enough yet, but better.
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It's all relative though. We are possibly slightly better. To be only slightly better after having the budget handed to him in the summer us absolutely criminal though.
If we improve by that much every season they'll be at 20 in a row with ease.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Why is Hibs a bigger game than St Johnstone? Thistle was a cup game, not the opposition that made it big.
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I think possibly because it was the first time we'd played them since the cup final and who their manager was.

I personally think them and St Johnstone will end up fighting it out for 6th spot behind us, mentally challengeds, Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hearts.
 
If we had taken our chances in the first half then I have no doubt the outcome would have been different even though the hammer throwers were assaulting our players.
 
havnt read all replies but FFS

Progress is only measured in one way....RESULTS....

Results put you at the top of the table
Results get you into cup finals
Results have you playing in Europe.

Yes this team can play a bit, but its normally in 15 min spells followed by 10 mins of dross.
Until you get 90 mins or close to it from the team our inconsistent results will continue
 
rinosprayer said:
While I agree we have generally improved we certainly didn't boss the game yesterday. Not from where I was standing.

Despite having a stinking first half we went in at the break and, again, came out worse. I think everyone could see what was happening and why we tried to play motherwell at hoofball was baffling.
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couldnt decide that , we played hoofball because pena, jack (was he playing) and dorrans were missing, or were the 3 missing because we played hoofball.:rolleyes:
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Watch the highlights of the first half. We completed bossed it and should have had two or three. Watch the St Johnstone game - completely bossed it.

The second half was sickening yesterday but we should have been out of sight. By all means have a go for results and failure to win 3 games in a row. But don't just make stuff up to make it all seem worse.

I watched Warburton's team and saw no signs of life, so I gave up on him even before last season started. I saw similar in McCoist and PLG - no chink of light at all. But this is different. Yes it may be two steps forward, one back, but there are steps forward. Let's do ourselves a favour and be honest about that.
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First half we could have played all day and not scored. Second half the ‘big boys’ started kicking and pushing us and Pedro’s chancers ran for cover. Cowards to a man. Manager is a dud his signings are duds there is no light. I’ve seen poor Rangers team in the past 50 years but no way would they have bottled a fight this bunch of cowards did. Get them and their hopeless manager out.
 
Ye ok Zapp.Progress has been made but thats not the realistic kind of progress most bears want.
Even if progress has been made its hit a limit and looks like a stand still.
 
I can refer back to my post last week.

We had to start well...which I was pretty confident we would.
But we had to make sure the good start resulted in a goal or 2 which I was less than confident about.

Said to my mate around 30 mins in..'we are going to struggle now'

Because that's what we do ,,play nice with no reward then let the opposition in to it.

Even the St J game we dominated yet had to endure 15 mins of torturous play until the sending off got us out of jail.

That aint progress...
 
It has got to the stage, I'm actually taking positives from defeat. All things considered, it has probably saved us more heartache at the hands of the beasts. A sad state of affairs for us.
 
Yip let’s say progress is dominating a match not scoring and getting beat 2-0. Please come to f*ck this is The Glasgow Rangers we are talking about, winning is everything and losing is worse than anything in this world, if your happy and content with what your watching, us dominating and then losing I don’t think we are the club for you.

We need to regain our rightful place at the top of Scottish football and I’m sorry to burst people’s bubble but a team managed by Pedro ain’t going to do that
 
I’d agree we are better than we wer last season,couple of signings in January and we are nearly there.
 
thelivibluenose said:
Yip let’s say progress is dominating a match not scoring and getting beat 2-0. Please come to f*ck this is The Glasgow Rangers we are talking about, winning is everything and losing is worse than anything in this world, if your happy and content with what your watching, us dominating and then losing I don’t think we are the club for you.

We need to regain our rightful place at the top of Scottish football and I’m sorry to burst people’s bubble but a team managed by Pedro ain’t going to do that
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People need to get real and realise that we have no divine right to win football matches,no one likes to see Rangers lose but we are on a journey
 
There has been progress but not the level you'd expect given the money spent.

That is where a lot of these arguments collapse I'm afraid; the sheer poverty of opponent we're facing.

We lost to Motherwell, a team made up of free transfers from the Vanarama Conference and other footballing back waters.

"Just shows how much further we have to go" is just not an acceptable excuse for that.
 
Standards1972 said:
There has been progress but not the level you'd expect given the money spent.

That is where a lot of these arguments collapse I'm afraid; the sheer poverty of opponent we're facing.

We lost to Motherwell, a team made up of free transfers from the Vanarama Conference and other footballing back waters.

"Just shows how much further we have to go" is just not an acceptable excuse for that.
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Football matches aren’t won on how much u spend,we are still left with the debris of the breadmans reign
 
Clutching at straws. The evidence of not being able to win 3 games in a row. Losing every big game that's came along. Being continually fckd of the filth would suggest otherwise.
 
Taylor armagh said:
People need to get real and realise that we have no divine right to win football matches,no one likes to see Rangers lose but we are on a journey
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I don’t for one minute think that we have a divine right to win but surely we should be expecting more than not winning a big game any time in the last 8 months a number people seem happy to accept mediocrity and put it down to being on a journey the point I am trying to make is we need to start showing that we are Rangers and putting fear into teams again not rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every time the going gets tough
 
I don't care if we "bossed" it for 90 mins. Football is a results driven business. I want to win. I want Rangers to succeed. I'm not REMOTELY interested in fancy fooking football. I want goals scored, win games leading to winning cup finals and leagues. Under PC we are not going to be able to achieve the aforementioned.

Beaten by Murderwell ffs in a semi final . It's absolutely appalling. Dreadful. Is this now acceptable? We have the second biggest budget and bought diddys. We are going backwards. A blind man on a bus can see this.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Watch the highlights of the first half. We completed bossed it and should have had two or three. Watch the St Johnstone game - completely bossed it.

The second half was sickening yesterday but we should have been out of sight. By all means have a go for results and failure to win 3 games in a row. But don't just make stuff up to make it all seem worse.

I watched Warburton's team and saw no signs of life, so I gave up on him even before last season started. I saw similar in McCoist and PLG - no chink of light at all. But this is different. Yes it may be two steps forward, one back, but there are steps forward. Let's do ourselves a favour and be honest about that.
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Have to say I completely agree with you.

I was right behind the goals in the Rangers end - so was difficult to see how close / sitter-ish our chances were. But imo we could easily have been 2 or 3 up first half. Thinking Windass and John in particular.

Second half is a concern and not for the first time this season, and I think the manager has to rectify this and be better at keeping the shape if we go one down.

This is a massive failing and he is rightly being criticised for it.
 
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