Today's Scottish Football Podcast (the SFA Arbitration)

I think we are in for a lot of heads going to roll as some of the ceos are not going to Carrie the can for those that made the cock up of the whole shambles I am sure someone will spill the beans to save themselves and I hope we can get the ring leader out in the open tick tock
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Ive posted before that they will simply deduct any compo from the prize pot and put it down to ‘expenses’. Doncaster himself virtually confirmed as much recently. Might even have been yesterday or today.

He said: "The league is the clubs. We don't hold any reserves.

"All of the money that comes into the league each year gets distributed among the 42 members so whatever expense, from this litigation or otherwise, will be borne by all 42 clubs.”
Click to expand...

At this rate, there will be no prize money for a number of years. It makes Europe even more important.

What a shambles.
 
bearspakora said:
Corporate fraud, for a start. Needlessly ending the season early to deliberately ensure only one club would have a chance of CL qualification, and the potential earnings of millions of pounds.
Click to expand...

As shite as it is mate it's a matter for football not the Police.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
At this rate, there will be no prize money for a number of years. It makes Europe even more important.

What a shambles.
Click to expand...

Despite recent reports that the prize pot would drop from £25m to £24.7m due to Doncaster’s deal with Sky it’s worth remembering that when the original deal was signed it was trumpeted as being between £30m-£32m. Most said it was £150m-£160m over 5 seasons.

In reality then, we are down by £5m-£7m already.

Then there’s money to come out for BT Sport (rumoured to be close to £3m), the BBC and overseas broadcaster (figure unknown).

If Hearts and Thistle get the compo they are claiming the prize pot could be down from £30m-£32m to nearer a figure of £10m. Ouch!
 
nasalsinatra said:
I suspect the SPFL will cave and offer a settlement to Hearts and Thistle. Those in charge do not want any of the issues to be placed in the public domain because of the embarrassment it will cause. Also, if that happened then resignations of office-bearers would be inevitable. It could take £3M for Hearts and £1M for Thistle to back off. In turn, that might create issues as this would reduce the pot to be shared by all 42 clubs.
Click to expand...

They will absolutely offer them a pay off but it will be a laughable low ball offer because the spfl is skint.

Partick will accept. Hearts will cave in eventually on the realisation that the pot iS totally empty.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Despite recent reports that the prize pot would drop from £25m to £24.7m due to Doncaster’s deal with Sky it’s worth remembering that when the original deal was signed it was trumpeted as being between £30m-£32m. Most said it was £150m-£160m over 5 seasons.

In reality then, we are down by £5m-£7m already.

Then there’s money to come out for BT Sport (rumoured to be close to £3m), the BBC and overseas broadcaster (figure unknown).

If Hearts and Thistle get the compo they are claiming the prize pot could be down from £30m-£32m to nearer a figure of £10m. Ouch!
Click to expand...
The difference between the £30m figure and the £25m is the SPFL running costs which are generally between 5 and 6 million. The SPFL gather all TV and sponsorship money, deduct their costs (£5 or £6m) and whatever is left is the prize money. So the Sky deal although £30m per season was always only around £25m to the clubs.
 
1288Bear said:
The difference between the £30m figure and the £25m is the SPFL running costs which are generally between 5 and 6 million. The SPFL gather all TV and sponsorship money, deduct their costs (£5 or £6m) and whatever is left is the prize money. So the Sky deal although £30m per season was always only around £25m to the clubs.
Click to expand...

You sure on that mate? I’ve not added up the figures for the 4 divisions but this article on the prize money certainly talks about splitting a £25m prize pot - and that’s for season 2018/2019, before the new, super, £30m a season deal with Sky.

SPFL prize pot reaches £25m | SPFL

Prize money of £25 million will be paid to clubs for season 2018/19...
spfl.co.uk spfl.co.uk
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Despite recent reports that the prize pot would drop from £25m to £24.7m due to Doncaster’s deal with Sky it’s worth remembering that when the original deal was signed it was trumpeted as being between £30m-£32m. Most said it was £150m-£160m over 5 seasons.

In reality then, we are down by £5m-£7m already.

Then there’s money to come out for BT Sport (rumoured to be close to £3m), the BBC and overseas broadcaster (figure unknown).

If Hearts and Thistle get the compo they are claiming the prize pot could be down from £30m-£32m to nearer a figure of £10m. Ouch!
Click to expand...

Weirdly enough a reducing pot size seems to be of lesser concern to the SPFL Executive than the season actually starting on time. Any delay to that and there will be no first instalment which many clubs rely heavily upon and it actually pays the SPFL salaries (including Doncaster's ridiculous one). Doncaster seems way more nervous about this potential howitzer to cash flow (there may well be more shit-storms further down the covid road but this seems to be the biggie for the SPFL Executive short-term).
 
Will give it a listen in the morning.

How the hell are Doncaster and McKenzie still in post?

This is all their doing.........on behalf of their master.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
You sure on that mate? I’ve not added up the figures for the 4 divisions but this article on the prize money certainly talks about splitting a £25m prize pot - and that’s for season 2018/2019, before the new, super, £30m a season deal with Sky.

SPFL prize pot reaches £25m | SPFL

Prize money of £25 million will be paid to clubs for season 2018/19...
spfl.co.uk spfl.co.uk
Click to expand...
Pretty sure. It's written in the Articles. The prize money is not purely the money from Sky it's all income including any sponsorship or fees for highlights packages etc which top up the main TV deal and normally cover most of the actual costs. With no sponsorship and Sky having exclusivity on the TV rights it means there's little in the way of top up so all costs, including any compensation and/or parachute payments comes off the income before the remainder is split between the 42 clubs.
 
1288Bear said:
The fact that the Chairman of one club has grave concerns for the future of his club should Hearts succeed in getting compensation should be of no relevance to the Arbitration process and his testimony an irrelevance.

The Arbitration process is to decide the legality of the process leading to Hearts, Partick and Stranraer being relegated and ultimately the legality of that relegation. As such the impact on others is not relevant.

Importantly Hearts are not actually claiming compensation. Their claim is that the relegation is illegal and, as such, that they should be reinstated. If they win they stay in the league they were in and the promoted teams do likewise and, sadly for them, miss out on promotion. They didn't, however, win promotion so technically would lose nothing.

Hearts and Partick's £10m is the amount relegation will cost them and if the Arbitration goes in their favour and the SPFL don't want to tell the previously promoted clubs that they got it wrong then that's the compensation the league would need to pay for Hearts and Partick to accept relegation despite the Arbitration going their way.

Notwithstanding that none of the others had any grave concerns about the impact their vote would have on the relegated clubs and were probably just glad it wasn't them. Compensation (rightly or wrongly) spreads the cost among 42 clubs as opposed to 3 clubs bearing the brunt.

Ideal scenario - Arbitration finds in Hearts and Particks favour, there is no promotion and no relegation and no requirement for compensation for anyone. The SPFL may, as other countries have done, make a nominal compensation payment to clubs that have missed out on the opportunity to win promotion through the league or the playoffs.

I'm also fairly certain that the panel conducting the Arbitration, despite what people have alluded to, do not have authority to force reconstruction. They may make a recommendation to that effect but I would assume that they would want to avoid that as that brings further complications. Can it be organised and fixtures agreed in time, is it permanent or temporary, if temporary how do you get back to the original format, how do you decide what the structure will be and how do you decide which teams go up from those in the playoff places? Don't think they'll want involved in that at all and it's not part of their remit.
Click to expand...


I may be totally wrong on this but...........

Arbitration is final. There is no appeal process.

With Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove being represented, I would assume that should the decision be in favour of Hearts/Partick, then they can't take it further either?
 
TNT said:
I may be totally wrong on this but...........

Arbitration is final. There is no appeal process.

With Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove being represented, I would assume that should the decision be in favour of Hearts/Partick, then they can't take it further either?
Click to expand...


It can be appealed only if a point of Law has been allegedly breached during the Tribunal, erroneous Law, or so I've been told. It then goes back to Court for legal clarification.
 
TNT said:
I may be totally wrong on this but...........

Arbitration is final. There is no appeal process.

With Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove being represented, I would assume that should the decision be in favour of Hearts/Partick, then they can't take it further either?
Click to expand...
Correct. Although Lord Clark did leave the door open to Hearts and Partick to return to court if they felt the process itself was legally flawed. They can't appeal or go back to court if they don't like the decision but if, for example, the documents that the SPFL have been instructed to share aren't released or if there are obvious gaps in the records, then they can go back to court and it will be heard.

Not only has he left the door open but he has actually advised that the court would have a window available to hear the case in sufficient time. By so doing he has effectively warned the SPFL re their behaviour in the Arbitration process. Think he also intimated that, in his opinion, delays to date were SPFL delays and any delays or obstruction to the Arbitration process could likewise see it back in court.

The MSM portrayed this all as an SPFL victory but it was, in fact, anything but. They were advised by Lord Clark how the panel should be composed, the qualifications for anyone to sit on that panel, he instructed them to release all relevant documents/records and warned them of the consequences of non compliance.

There may be no appeal process but that certainly doesn't mean it won't end up back in court - especially if the SPFL continue in the vein they have.
 
Does anyone know if phone and email records would be requested from phone / email providers? As in there must be a legal process where you request the information in a legally suitable way and not just leaving it upto to the defendants to pass on their texts etc?
 
jaws73 said:
Worth a listen.

There was a decent insight into the process by the Chairman of the Scottish Arbitration Centre.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Radio Scotland - Scottish Football Podcast, Scottish Football podcast: 7 Jul 20

Chairman of the Scottish Arbitration Centre Brandon Malone joins us on today's podcast.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

A couple of interesting things said in the course of discussion:

One club's CEO is contemplating suing another club's CEO.

One club's Chairman is actively trying to prevent the Chairman of another club getting on the SPFL Board.

A Chairman of one club has been called to give witness testimony ahead of the Arbitration - says he has grave concerns for his club if Hearts succeed in getting compensation (he refused to appear on the podcast).
Click to expand...
And typically, at the end of the podcast opinions were sought about how the result might go and Gollum, without having heard any of the evidence to be put before the arbitration panel, has already written his script. He refers to Lord Clark's statement that the SPFL is a members' organisation and must stick to the rules so Gollum will be very surprised if the relegations are overturned. I think it was also him who said 6 months down the line this debacle will be forgotten, he's towing the party line - nothing to see here let's move on.
 
Govan36 said:
And typically, at the end of the podcast opinions were sought about how the result might go and Gollum, without having heard any of the evidence to be put before the arbitration panel, has already written his script. He refers to Lord Clark's statement that the SPFL is a members' organisation and must stick to the rules so Gollum will be very surprised if the relegations are overturned. I think it was also him who said 6 months down the line this debacle will be forgotten, he's towing the party line - nothing to see here let's move on.
Click to expand...
Doesnt want to alienate his sources he acquired in 2012:rolleyes:
 
Govan36 said:
And typically, at the end of the podcast opinions were sought about how the result might go and Gollum, without having heard any of the evidence to be put before the arbitration panel, has already written his script. He refers to Lord Clark's statement that the SPFL is a members' organisation and must stick to the rules so Gollum will be very surprised if the relegations are overturned. I think it was also him who said 6 months down the line this debacle will be forgotten, he's towing the party line - nothing to see here let's move on.
Click to expand...

Yes, I made the point earlier re Gollums complete lack of understanding of the judgement. Arbitration was in the articles of association and can feasibly be concluded therefore he sent the case back to arbitration. Gollum thinks that means that because relegation is also in the rules it follows that Hearts must be relegated.

He's a fool. He is forgetting that the whole crux of this is if the relegation was arrived at legally as it wasn't arrived at in the pitch. He forgets that involved a resolution which changes the rules and was arrived at in a storm of controversy which may amount to corruption. He's a lickspittle for the SPFL and his team.
 
Finally got round to listening to this, lots of really interesting snippets of info came out of it which was revealing.

Does anyone know what happens if this isn't concluded before the season kick off? Is there a chance the spfl can bloat proceedings and get to the stage where the league starts and therefore makes it almost impossible to go down the route of rescinding promotion/relegation?

For the record, I cant see that outcome anyway, I imagine it will be financial settlement and promise to increase the league next season so that its impossible for Hearts to not really be promoted straight back up and Partick either.
 
1288Bear said:
Correct. Although Lord Clark did leave the door open to Hearts and Partick to return to court if they felt the process itself was legally flawed. They can't appeal or go back to court if they don't like the decision but if, for example, the documents that the SPFL have been instructed to share aren't released or if there are obvious gaps in the records, then they can go back to court and it will be heard.

Not only has he left the door open but he has actually advised that the court would have a window available to hear the case in sufficient time. By so doing he has effectively warned the SPFL re their behaviour in the Arbitration process. Think he also intimated that, in his opinion, delays to date were SPFL delays and any delays or obstruction to the Arbitration process could likewise see it back in court.

The MSM portrayed this all as an SPFL victory but it was, in fact, anything but. They were advised by Lord Clark how the panel should be composed, the qualifications for anyone to sit on that panel, he instructed them to release all relevant documents/records and warned them of the consequences of non compliance.

There may be no appeal process but that certainly doesn't mean it won't end up back in court - especially if the SPFL continue in the vein they have.
Click to expand...

spot on m8, pity you are not a journo. You obviously read reviews and interpret them without the need to look at a tabloid summary.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
It's quite incredible though, how the SMSM are totally silent on this, despite that Moynihan QC
accepting last week that the Dundee vote WAS accepted at 4.48 & that Doncaster had
misled clubs.

Truly disgusting mate ;)
Click to expand...

The day after he said that he qualified it by saying he was using ‘shorthand’ and didn’t qualify the fact it may have been in a junk folder, why he chose to do that is anyone’s guess, however now that the documentation is being forced out Hearts/Thistle should be able to see exactly what happened.
 
Tagsbear said:
The day after he said that he qualified it by saying he was using ‘shorthand’ and didn’t qualify the fact it may have been in a junk folder, why he chose to do that is anyone’s guess, however now that the documentation is being forced out Hearts/Thistle should be able to see exactly what happened.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tags. I missed that.
 
I avoid the BBC like the plague. However I have a mate who listens to their Scottish football radio output religiously (he just loves the old wireless on in the background even though he knows full well what they are like).

So, I keep him updated on whatsapp with the latest truths from here and he keeps me abreast of all their latest ramblings. It's a good system as he knows what to look out for because I've given him the heads up on certain topics and then he tells me what they're spinning and we both understand and identify their latest agenda and what the lipstickles are up to.

So this is a perfect case in point. I told him how the SPFL were claiming this was an SFA arbitration right off the bat when it actually wasn't and that the first BBC article was trying to back that up. So he gets back to me yesterday saying he's listening to Sportsound and some fud keeps saying it's, guess what, "an SFA arbitration". And yeah, lo and behold, it turns out to be Gollum. Kept repeating it ad nauseum, so he's clearly got the memo and he's playing the SPFL line which just happens to be, as always, in Lawwells interests too. I don't know what they hope to gain from this other than to save face as though they got what they wanted, and to try to prevent panic and defection from their co-conspirators. But it's obvious this is more than just a 'misunderstanding'.

Unfortunately though, this propoganda seems to have worked given the heading of this thread. The arbitration is independent. It has nothing to do with the SFA, other than it was in their rules that arbitration be sought before court action. The SFA, I think, does have it's own arbitration process, which crucially is what the SPFL, celtic, DUtd etc were desperate for but the judge didn't order that. Oh no, he went for a fully independent process through the court system. And crucially full disclosure of documents. So, it couldn't really get worse for them. So this 'everything is fine, stay calm' routine is laughable.
 
Hopefully the price of the Deloitte investigation comes out, and what exactly they were asked to look for. Deloitte are part of this big time.
 
bearspakora said:
I still reckon that the SPFL will settle and pay off Hearts and Thistle to avoid the arbitration process. They do not want the crookery they've been up to revealed by the documents due to be presented.
Click to expand...

I agree that’s what they’d want to do but it’s the clubs that will need to pay. Some won’t be able to and some won’t want to. If it happens, I think Messrs Doncaster and McKenzie will be gone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top