Tremendous Result but there’s an elephant in the room

So what a crowd and what an apt result for a tribute to Fernando!

Barisic was immense tonight, he didn’t pull out the challenge which led to our goal.....I hope his goal and now this type of performance is seeing him grow into that shirt!

Helander.....Yes please.....what a game he had!

Jack coming back from his knee complaint straight into the heat of that battle alongside Davis.....solid as hell!!!

McGregor.....an absolute brick wall!!

Now the elephants....

Goldson should never have been chosen over Katic.....I’ve said it before and the poll on FF has demonstrated it too.....Katic is by far the better of those two & Gerrard needs to rest Goldson for a bit and try and different combination with Helander.

Tavernier he can’t be on the pens now...2 already missed this season and at this level misses like that could be costly....he’s a lucky lad tonight that we got away with that miss.

Ojo....what a strike....the lad could not have hit that any cleaner.....however the rest of the game he was way below par....both with his final ball and his defensive tracking back....he looked so lackadaisical at times it was sorely frustrating!!!

Overall as a team we need to be far more clinical with the chances we create, at this level and to be league champions we need to be ruthless middle to front and thus far we haven’t seen that streak to our game!

3 points to start though but a missed opportunity to bag some goals to help put us in top spot!

Great result in the end and nice tribute from Ojo to dedicate his goal to Fernando and his family.

Dont agree at all on Goldson. Thought he had a smashing game. Still think hes the best CB at club. A leader as well. More of those then better.

Also Tav has been immense until recently on pens. Scores one again and he will be back to normal.

Thought Ojo scored a belter. Done great for the other chance he made and was unlucky with. I like him. He was shattered from 60min though.
 
Well that’s certainly a very balanced and sensible view of a player who is two months or so in to his time with us.

Two months in and 5 goals and2 assists in 10 games doubt if the guy you quoted gave what he had written any thought.
 
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You're saying Morelos looked off form last night...Gerrard said he was unplayable.

Their defence didn't have a clue how to deal with him for the full 90 minutes, he absolutely bullied and terrorised them. He should've got a penalty, he squared the ball once or twice (pretty much on a plate) but nothing came of it.
Did you actually read what I said? Point out where I said he looked off form !!.
 
So what a crowd and what an apt result for a tribute to Fernando!

Barisic was immense tonight, he didn’t pull out the challenge which led to our goal.....I hope his goal and now this type of performance is seeing him grow into that shirt!

Helander.....Yes please.....what a game he had!

Jack coming back from his knee complaint straight into the heat of that battle alongside Davis.....solid as hell!!!

McGregor.....an absolute brick wall!!

Now the elephants....

Goldson should never have been chosen over Katic.....I’ve said it before and the poll on FF has demonstrated it too.....Katic is by far the better of those two & Gerrard needs to rest Goldson for a bit and try and different combination with Helander.

Tavernier he can’t be on the pens now...2 already missed this season and at this level misses like that could be costly....he’s a lucky lad tonight that we got away with that miss.

Ojo....what a strike....the lad could not have hit that any cleaner.....however the rest of the game he was way below par....both with his final ball and his defensive tracking back....he looked so lackadaisical at times it was sorely frustrating!!!

Overall as a team we need to be far more clinical with the chances we create, at this level and to be league champions we need to be ruthless middle to front and thus far we haven’t seen that streak to our game!

3 points to start though but a missed opportunity to bag some goals to help put us in top spot!

Great result in the end and nice tribute from Ojo to dedicate his goal to Fernando and his family.

Nothing much to argue about in that in my opinion.

W.A.T.P.
 
Well that’s certainly a very balanced and sensible view of a player who is two months or so in to his time with us.
You may be disagreeing via the art of sarcasm but I've spoken with lots of Bears regards the new players since the domestic campaign started. General opinion of Ojo? Some nice touches, potentially good, decision-making and final ball poor more often than not however, may or may not make it, not suitable for bigger games at this stage. A couple were convinced he wouldn't make it, no-one thought he was a cert to make it good.

There was a set of circumstances last night that happens very, very rarely and when it does happen I believe it to be worthy of note.

Player comes into massive high-profile/difficult/important game with many doubters watching in the stands or on TV. Lots of groaning from them when they see the boy's name and comments that the manager's made a mistake. Bang average performance is what they expect but there's also fears that he's far more likely to have a bad game than a good one. Nobody expects he'll do something brilliant that wins the game.

Then out of the blue there's that moment. The unexpected contribution that wins the match, sparking huge celebrations and outbursts of emotion in the stands, earning the player a place in the hearts and minds of Bluenoses everywhere

Erik Bo Andersen did it against Celtic. Tony Vidmar against Parma.

Reason I picked the Konterman goal however was because it was an absolute rocket shot from well out which left the keeper with no chance and was still rising as it walloped the back of the net.

So I say to the boy... Congrats, Sheyi. Let it be your inspiration. Tony Vidmar rarely had a poor game for Rangers after that. Hopefully it's the same for you.
 
You may be disagreeing via the art of sarcasm but I've spoken with lots of Bears regards the new players since the domestic campaign started. General opinion of Ojo? Some nice touches, potentially good, decision-making and final ball poor more often than not however, may or may not make it, not suitable for bigger games at this stage. A couple were convinced he wouldn't make it, no-one thought he was a cert to make it good.

There was a set of circumstances last night that happens very, very rarely and when it does happen I believe it to be worthy of note.

Player comes into massive high-profile/difficult/important game with many doubters watching in the stands or on TV. Lots of groaning from them when they see the boy's name and comments that the manager's made a mistake. Bang average performance is what they expect but there's also fears that he's far more likely to have a bad game than a good one. Nobody expects he'll do something brilliant that wins the game.

Then out of the blue there's that moment. The unexpected contribution that wins the match, sparking huge celebrations and outbursts of emotion in the stands, earning the player a place in the hearts and minds of Bluenoses everywhere

Erik Bo Andersen did it against Celtic. Tony Vidmar against Parma.

Reason I picked the Konterman goal however was because it was an absolute rocket shot from well out which left the keeper with no chance and was still rising as it walloped the back of the net.

So I say to the boy... Congrats, Sheyi. Let it be your inspiration. Tony Vidmar rarely had a poor game for Rangers after that. Hopefully it's the same for you.

The part in bold is absolutely true and something that I would probably, for the most part, go along with.

However, I think the comparison to Konterman, someone who is almost universally seen as a failure of a signing by the entire support, is harsh in the extreme.

Ojo’s had his quiet games, as has Aribo, as did Kent and as will many more who play for Rangers.

The fact is though that Ojo has played 12 games, scored 5 goals and has 2 assists in there also. So therefore he has contributed in the majority of games he has played in for us at this stage.

Once the a section of support makes it mind up on a player it becomes virtually impossible for them to change their mind, we’ve seen that countless times.

People need to remember where we are in the season, how long there is to go and perhaps most importantly the age of the player. He’s a 22 year old winger with less than 100 games under his belt so far as a senior professional.

Let’s give the boy some time before we start the comparisons to any player, whether that be Konterman or Brian Laudrup.
 
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We are poor in front of goal. We lack composure and quality in our finishing far too often and it will undoubtedly cost us both at home and abroad this season.

Arfield gives his all and is a great link player, helping create a good number of chances but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired.
 
You may be disagreeing via the art of sarcasm but I've spoken with lots of Bears regards the new players since the domestic campaign started. General opinion of Ojo? Some nice touches, potentially good, decision-making and final ball poor more often than not however, may or may not make it, not suitable for bigger games at this stage. A couple were convinced he wouldn't make it, no-one thought he was a cert to make it good.

There was a set of circumstances last night that happens very, very rarely and when it does happen I believe it to be worthy of note.

Player comes into massive high-profile/difficult/important game with many doubters watching in the stands or on TV. Lots of groaning from them when they see the boy's name and comments that the manager's made a mistake. Bang average performance is what they expect but there's also fears that he's far more likely to have a bad game than a good one. Nobody expects he'll do something brilliant that wins the game.

Then out of the blue there's that moment. The unexpected contribution that wins the match, sparking huge celebrations and outbursts of emotion in the stands, earning the player a place in the hearts and minds of Bluenoses everywhere

Erik Bo Andersen did it against Celtic. Tony Vidmar against Parma.

Reason I picked the Konterman goal however was because it was an absolute rocket shot from well out which left the keeper with no chance and was still rising as it walloped the back of the net.

So I say to the boy... Congrats, Sheyi. Let it be your inspiration. Tony Vidmar rarely had a poor game for Rangers after that. Hopefully it's the same for you.

All those things could have been said of Kent in his first few weeks. He's a young lad who has never played regular first team football. How often at this stage last season did we have threads and posts about paying fines being the only reason the two Liverpool loanees were playing?
 
However, I think the comparison to Konterman, someone who is almost universally seen as a failure of a signing by the entire support, is harsh in the extreme.
No-one claimed they were similar.

Konterman and Bo Andersen were failures. Ojo's a don't-know. Vidmar went on to become a very good player for us.

But they've all done something very special in massive games with no Rangers fan expecting it.
 
We are poor in front of goal. We lack composure and quality in our finishing far too often and it will undoubtedly cost us both at home and abroad this season.

Arfield gives his all and is a great link player, helping create a good number of chances but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired.

Like you i love Arfield for his endeavour and guile. But he needs to add more goals if hes going to continue to play in our front 4. We need to improve to go to the level we all want.
In the same vein, Ojo needs to add a better workrate, movement and passing to his game.
 
Sad to see how desperate some of our fans are to turn Goldson into a whipping boy. Almost as if they were willing him to make a mistake last night.
 
So what a crowd and what an apt result for a tribute to Fernando!

Barisic was immense tonight, he didn’t pull out the challenge which led to our goal.....I hope his goal and now this type of performance is seeing him grow into that shirt!

Helander.....Yes please.....what a game he had!

Jack coming back from his knee complaint straight into the heat of that battle alongside Davis.....solid as hell!!!

McGregor.....an absolute brick wall!!

Now the elephants....

Goldson should never have been chosen over Katic.....I’ve said it before and the poll on FF has demonstrated it too.....Katic is by far the better of those two & Gerrard needs to rest Goldson for a bit and try and different combination with Helander.

Tavernier he can’t be on the pens now...2 already missed this season and at this level misses like that could be costly....he’s a lucky lad tonight that we got away with that miss.

Ojo....what a strike....the lad could not have hit that any cleaner.....however the rest of the game he was way below par....both with his final ball and his defensive tracking back....he looked so lackadaisical at times it was sorely frustrating!!!

Overall as a team we need to be far more clinical with the chances we create, at this level and to be league champions we need to be ruthless middle to front and thus far we haven’t seen that streak to our game!

3 points to start though but a missed opportunity to bag some goals to help put us in top spot!

Great result in the end and nice tribute from Ojo to dedicate his goal to Fernando and his family.
Katic better than Goldson. Aye nae bother. I'll stick with the Managers view and my own eyes thanks.
 
Like you i love Arfield for his endeavour and guile. But he needs to add more goals if hes going to continue to play in our front 4. We need to improve to go to the level we all want.
In the same vein, Ojo needs to add a better workrate, movement and passing to his game.
Yep, we should always be striving for better, both in terms of our current players trying to improve and as a club, recruiting the best we can to continue to move forward.
 
im going to agree re goldson, i just dont feel as confident at the back with him playing, i get nervous when i see the ball at his feet. hes a good player but i think katic has grown into the better of the two and deserves the start over him,
 
I don't agree with any of your points, goldson has and is pivotal in our defences resolute, since he arrived the improvement has been huge. Tav has the head to continue putting the penalties away, a few misses shouldn't be getting fans on his back. Now for Ojo, look at his stats for rangers, his goals and assists say you're talking shite.
 
All those things could have been said of Kent in his first few weeks. He's a young lad who has never played regular first team football. How often at this stage last season did we have threads and posts about paying fines being the only reason the two Liverpool loanees were playing?

Kent always looked dangerous though and would drive at defenders / take men on. Ojo looks scared to do that.
 
Gonna sound daft as Ojo scored a screamer, but I wish he'd have a shot at goal outside the box, the amount of times he was in great positions and passed it was unreal
 
Arfield is the weak link in our team? C'mon you really can't be serious with that?
I am serious mate. His lack of pace is restricting our play at times. And as I say, his ball retention and passing is generally poor.

Puts in the effort in, but sometimes that's not enough when the quality is not there.

Overall, I don't see his time in a Rangers jersey to have been anything really special.

A few decent games at the end of the season in dead rubber games doesn't cut it for me. But I know I am in a minority on here. But not a problem.
 
Thank good our manager doesn’t pick his first eleven from a poll on follow follow.

Katic has a couple of bad games and the same ones on here will want him out the team.
 
I am serious mate. His lack of pace is restricting our play at times. And as I say, his ball retention and passing is generally poor.

Puts in the effort in, but sometimes that's not enough when the quality is not there.

Overall, I don't see his time in a Rangers jersey to have been anything really special.

A few decent games at the end of the season in dead rubber games doesn't cut it for me. But I know I am in a minority on here. But not a problem.

I actually agree with you in general terms-he's key to how we play and he's probably not technical enough for the role-the ball doesn't stick to him....I also think he's blown hot and cold.

But on Thursday he played as well as he has in a long time.

If we look at the team coldly and calmly we are reliant on the newer and younger players (Aribo, Ojo and Kent) to take us up a level...the others have probably shown us their best-if these newer lads don't lift things we are heavily reliant on the likes of Arfield to be a lot more consistent than they have.

But the problem is replacing them-who comes in for him?
 
Katic better than Goldson. Aye nae bother. I'll stick with the Managers view and my own eyes thanks.

Can we not wait until the gaffers actually won something or at the very least gotten us to a cup final before putting him on this sort of bulletproof pedestal?

Did you feel the same way when people were apprehensive about his OF selection, which he absolutely cùnted by the way, regardless of his career as a player, regardless of his coaching badges and regardless of his experience. He makes mistakes, and sometimes they’re obvious mistakes too, there’s no shame in acknowledging this, it doesn’t make you less staunch.
 
I like Katic as a player, an old school centre-back to a degree. I like Goldson as well, as the man who, finally, brought some stability to our central defence. I also like a Helander, who’s experience tells us should be a solid addition and I like the look of Edmundson, who may yet turn out to be the best of the lot. In other words a like our options at centre-back, tney all bring different qualities and, in truth, there’s not an awful lot between them in terms of ability. I suspect though that experience and leadership will win out and we will go with Goldson and Helander.

So, hot on the heels of 6 months tiresome debate about Worrall v. Katic I guess we can look forward to and even longer debate this season about who keeps Katic out the team - and why they shouldn’t.

Personally, I don’t care who starts - so long as we’re winning.
 
I am serious mate. His lack of pace is restricting our play at times. And as I say, his ball retention and passing is generally poor.

Puts in the effort in, but sometimes that's not enough when the quality is not there.

Overall, I don't see his time in a Rangers jersey to have been anything really special.

A few decent games at the end of the season in dead rubber games doesn't cut it for me. But I know I am in a minority on here. But not a problem.

Interesting view. I think it's a bit harsh in some ways and I rate him higher than you overall but I do get where you're coming from.

My mates quote when we were watching it was "I really like Arfield but I'm no sure why...". His point bring he couldn't really put his finger on what makes him a good, effective player in the team. As you mentioned, he's got no real pace and his finishing can be weak. But as the game went on (and I thought it was easily his best performance of the season for us so far), we decided it was general game intelligence, if that doesn't sound too wanky / Warburtony. He's a clever player and was involved in quite a few of our best passages of play. He is also fully committed in each and every challenge he makes and sometimes that quality can be underestimated.

Its clear that he's one of the gaffers most trusted players given he wasn't dropped despite a relatively poor start to the season. But as long as he keeps that form from Thursday going, he will rightly be in the team more often than not.
 
Touch, control, pace, ball retention - all lacking. I see him as a weak link in the team for what we need. He frustrates me.
Everything you’ve said about him I’ve
been saying since last season. Throw in shooting and heading at goal. He went 17 starts in a row last season
without scoring. He’s now on a run of 7. He’s not good enough for such a vital position. All he has to offer is effort.
 
Everything you’ve said about him I’ve
been saying since last season. Throw in shooting and heading at goal. He went 17 starts in a row last season
without scoring. He’s now on a run of 7. He’s not good enough for such a vital position. All he has to offer is effort.
I was quite critical of him last season as well mate.

Somehow he gets an easy ride, yet other players get slaughtered. He's very fortunate to be a starter considering his level of performance and return.

I love SG but his blind side for Arfield needs to stop.

As an attacking player, his number of goals, pace, composure, shooting and finishing is very poor. I see him very much as a huff and puff player who does put in the effort - but the end result is lacking most of the time.
 
I was quite critical of him last season as well mate.

Somehow he gets an easy ride, yet other players get slaughtered. He's very fortunate to be a starter considering his level of performance and return.

I love SG but his blind side for Arfield needs to stop.

As an attacking player, his number of goals, pace, composure, shooting and finishing is very poor. I see him very much as a huff and puff player who does put in the effort - but the end result is lacking most of the time.
You’ve obviously played the game.
 
Imagine starting a thread like this after a great win, OP.

We were great.

This thread is internet Aids.

Hang about though, we might be shite Sunday (today) and you can be right.
 
There is always room for improvement. Never rest on your laurels or let complacency set in. We haven't won anything for years.

We are all delighted with the win on Thursday but that second half was riddled with deficiences which almost led to us handing them a draw. Quality wise, it was a very poor second half from both teams. Porto and Young Boys won't exactly be quaking in their boots just yet.

Decent start but need to do better - and be more clinical or it will cost us again.
 
Touch, control, pace, ball retention - all lacking. I see him as a weak link in the team for what we need. He frustrates me.

I agree, he just hasn’t started the season the way he ended last season.

He definitely needs to add more goals, and at the very least assists, to his game.
 
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I am serious mate. His lack of pace is restricting our play at times. And as I say, his ball retention and passing is generally poor.

Puts in the effort in, but sometimes that's not enough when the quality is not there.

Overall, I don't see his time in a Rangers jersey to have been anything really special.

A few decent games at the end of the season in dead rubber games doesn't cut it for me. But I know I am in a minority on here. But not a problem.
I agree, can be decent but still think Gerrard rushed him back and plays him till he basically drops.
 
Imagine starting a thread like this after a great win, OP.

We were great.

This thread is internet Aids.

Hang about though, we might be shite Sunday (today) and you can be right.

Oh well let’s just shut this forum down, so really any constructive criticism ( which this OP was) isn’t to even see the light of day, let’s all put our back legs on the podium and start clapping like feck.
Disclaimer, if you don’t like the OP then why not give a miss.
 
Oh well let’s just shut this forum down, so really any constructive criticism ( which this OP was) isn’t to even see the light of day, let’s all put our back legs on the podium and start clapping like feck.
Disclaimer, if you don’t like the OP then why not give a miss.
Sorry, promise to agree with everything you post moving forward.
 
I am serious mate. His lack of pace is restricting our play at times. And as I say, his ball retention and passing is generally poor.

Puts in the effort in, but sometimes that's not enough when the quality is not there.

Overall, I don't see his time in a Rangers jersey to have been anything really special.

A few decent games at the end of the season in dead rubber games doesn't cut it for me. But I know I am in a minority on here. But not a problem.

The problem with Arfield is he doesn't seem to have the fitness or the finesse to be considered one of Gerrard's undroppables

I like him. He'll give you absolutely everything he's got but he very rarely executes the final pass or finish with any degree of conviction. Constantly trying wee dinks and side foot shots in and around the box when at times he'd be as well just leathering the ball at the goal.

His general fitness seems questionable. I know he played in the Gold Cup in the summer but even last year he seemed to struggle to be finishing 90 minutes on a regular basis.
 
The real elephant in the room is that so many fans think Katic is better than Goldson.....he isn't.

Goldson was poor again today, gave the ball away needlessly about 6-7 times. Looked weak in the air as well which is unusual for him. McGregor was screaming at him towards the end because St Johnstone punted the ball up the park and Goldson got caught under it, leading to them having a shot at goal.

Performance won't be looked at though because he got a goal.
 
Goldson was poor again today, gave the ball away needlessly about 6-7 times. Looked weak in the air as well which is unusual for him. McGregor was screaming at him towards the end because St Johnstone punted the ball up the park and Goldson got caught under it, leading to them having a shot at goal.

Performance won't be looked at though because he got a goal.

Well, that's just not the case for me. I thought today, after Barisic, he was one of our best performers. Just shows you how folks see the game differently I guess. Will concede he had a few stray passes first half right enough.

Slight change of role for Goldson today I thought, with him challenging for more balls in the air whereas with Katic alongside him he tends to sit back deeper. Goldson and Helander seemed to 'share' those duties today.
 
Well, that's just not the case for me. I thought today, after Barisic, he was one of our best performers. Just shows you how folks see the game differently I guess. Will concede he had a few stray passes first half right enough.

Slight change of role for Goldson today I thought, with him challenging for more balls in the air whereas with Katic alongside him he tends to sit back deeper. Goldson and Helander seemed to 'share' those duties today.

One of my biggest gripes with Goldson is that he holds on to the ball for far too long then either boots it out the park, loses possession or hoofs it up to no one.
 
One of my biggest gripes with Goldson is that he holds on to the ball for far too long then either boots it out the park, loses possession or hoofs it up to no one.

His passing can be great or it can sail long and out the park, no question (same could be said of Terry Butcher and his 'Winchester' left foot as well right enough). Nevertheless, he's the man our entire back four look to when they have the ball. He's the leader in there. Every time we are prevented from Tav bombing forward the ball lands with Goldson. Even if its recycled from the other side, its Barasic to Helander to Goldson. That's not co-incidence. He is clearly seen as the man to be 'trusted'. Its easy to remember the ones that are wasted but, in truth, now he has Davis and Jack there I'd say that 90% of the time he just recycles it to them - but the decision is always left with Goldson rather than his partner - whoever that may be.

As I've said before, I honestly don't think there's a great deal between our centre-backs in terms of ability. However, its Goldson's leadership qualities combined with his experience that will generally see him get the nod ahead of anyone else.
 
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