UEFA coefficient

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
But we're not aiming to maintain this revenue base forever, because otherwise we'd operate at a permanent disadvantage to Celtic and would win less titles than them over the long run.

Our intention is to get into exactly the same position as they are now. Run at a loss and either sell a player, make the CL or have the cash to sustain it.

From a high level, we are adopting their approach of buy low, sell high, I do agree.

However I don’t see us going anywhere close to their salary level player wise. We have improved our squad depth really well, but reduced it in size, so our costs shouldn’t have increased too much ?

And of course Lawwell & his cohorts are taking bigger salaries that our ‘Management’, such as Robertson too.
 

Loyal Tyke

Member
It appears to me that Rangers return to European football n doing well is boosting the coefficient. But by doing this is it helping Celtic too? If 55 comes this year would the boosted coefficient give Celtic a CL place too?
 

Gogso

Well-Known Member
The only ones I want routinely pumped are the tarriers, but if they win then it helps us anyway. The rest I'd rather see pick up results for our benefit.
And we saw how poor murderwell were after their trip to Israel a few weeks ago. I'm more than happy for other teams to get wee EL runs.
 

Big Buff

Well-Known Member
There is no way we are wanting to run at a loss.
We've ran at a loss for years and without doing so we cannot and will not bridge the financial gap to them. We have no choice.

From a high level, we are adopting their approach of buy low, sell high, I do agree.

However I don’t see us going anywhere close to their salary level player wise. We have improved our squad depth really well, but reduced it in size, so our costs shouldn’t have increased too much ?

And of course Lawwell & his cohorts are taking bigger salaries that our ‘Management’, such as Robertson too.
We have to get close to what they're spending salary wise. If we don't, there will be a clear gap between us and them over the long run. They'll have better players than us.

Now their salaries will likely come down as ours increase, but ultimately that's just going to change the size of the loss before player trading/CL money, rather than change whether we have a loss at all.
 

rangeral

Well-Known Member
It appears to me that Rangers return to European football n doing well is boosting the coefficient. But by doing this is it helping Celtic too? If 55 comes this year would the boosted coefficient give Celtic a CL place too?
Yes they if finish 2nd

The past 2 seasons have been good for Scottish football both us and them have ensured that the country co-effiecent has went up
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
Would be fine by me if the likes of Aberdeen or Motherwell managed to somehow get through to the group stages.
Irish league sides have qualified 3 times (I think) in the past 9 years, so once every 3 years! I think other Scottish teams have made it just the once and that was Aberdeen about 14 years ago. Our game is a disgrace from National team, SFA, SPL, SPFL, Rangers hating clubs and grass roots football
 

Broxbound Bear

Well-Known Member
Head - Rangers deserve to play in a respectable league and right now we just don't. I want the others barring them to do well so we don't have to listen to the same tired old farmers league nonsense and earn some well deserved respect and money. Mostly the money in fact.

Heart - They've stood by and let the filth ruin our game. No word about the biggest scandal in British sporting history, allowing their people to ruin us, putting the boot on our neck out of spite and then allowing them to dictate the outcome of a league that hadn't even finished.

Hand - WATP and what anyone else does matters fa to me.

Safe to say I'm somewhat conflicted on the matter.
 
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Hotdog

Well-Known Member
So if we win the league, will we be seeded in the CL quilfier? Surely our coefficient is rising as a club?
 

Gibraltar Loyal

Well-Known Member
For me its a quid quo pro. If they win it improves co-efficient so ultimately helps us in latter years. Its a very small silver lining to the black cloud of media fawning over themselves when the scum win in Europe and become world beaters.
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
We've ran at a loss for years and without doing so we cannot and will not bridge the financial gap to them. We have no choice.


We have to get close to what they're spending salary wise. If we don't, there will be a clear gap between us and them over the long run. They'll have better players than us.

Now their salaries will likely come down as ours increase, but ultimately that's just going to change the size of the loss before player trading/CL money, rather than change whether we have a loss at all.

I disagree that we have to get our salaries to their level Buff. I’d suggest that the optimum squad size for us is very close to where we now are, with a couple out & a couple of upgrades in.

To me, we already have a squad that can be successful, with a little injury luck.

The Castore deal & the EL Group money, coupled with the SD bullshit ending, means we should now be very close to break even if you ignore the directors notional interest, which is a reasonable thing to do.

Recent threads on here also suggest that we have a player pool value of maybe close to 100m, so there is good reason to think that purchases & sales over the next 5 years anyway won’t be a net cash outflow too.

To me we are very close to a workable medium to long term successful position.
 

rangeral

Well-Known Member
So if we win the league, will we be seeded in the CL quilfier? Surely our coefficient is rising as a club?
We won't really know until the season has ended but for QR3 based on this season yes out current coefficient is 19.250

All down to which teams are actually in
 

linthousebear1981

Well-Known Member
Motherwell's, Aberdeen's, Hibs etc are fucking it for us all. Rangers and Celtic are doing their bit, we are definitely doing more than expected and Celtic are doing less than expected because of their easy draw for the CL which they fucked. However we need at least one other team to have a decent run in Europe to start really progressing Scotland into the top 10. Otherwise Rangers and Celtic will need to reach the semi's of the CL or EL to ever get us into the top 10 or for other nations above us to start performing extremely poorly.
 

Big Buff

Well-Known Member
I disagree that we have to get our salaries to their level Buff. I’d suggest that the optimum squad size for us is very close to where we now are, with a couple out & a couple of upgrades in.

To me, we already have a squad that can be successful, with a little injury luck.

The Castore deal & the EL Group money, coupled with the SD bullshit ending, means we should now be very close to break even if you ignore the directors notional interest, which is a reasonable thing to do.

Recent threads on here also suggest that we have a player pool value of maybe close to 100m, so there is good reason to think that purchases & sales over the next 5 years anyway won’t be a net cash outflow too.

To me we are very close to a workable medium to long term successful position.
The correlation between wage expenditure and league position is well established. If we do not spend what they do, they will win more than we do.

And increasing wage expenditure doesn't necessarily mean increasing squad size - it means increasing wages for existing players to maximise value and to recruit even better players.

The directors are fully aware of this. It's long been our goal to get into a position where we're selling a player or making the CL groups to cover the wage bill. Because if we're doing so, it means we have a squad of really good players that are successful.

We either bridge the gap or accept winning the odd league every five years.
 

Georgesky01

Active Member
Scottish football “didn’t need or want us “ it has suffered as a result it is only now we are back much to their disgust that the co efficient is getting better they will never admit it tho so in answer to your question I think we all know who has cut their noses to spite their face
correct mate
 

cambridgeblue

Well-Known Member
5 teams means any Rangers points are multiplied by 0.2 rather than 0.25 as now.

In reality Rangers have 2 seasons of tiny coefficient returns yet to be wiped off - so Scotland should continue to rise for 2 more years at least.

Next season when we go for 56 - could well mean automatic entry into the group stage.

That would be a bigger deal than stop the 4.75 or what ever.
 

GF1

Well-Known Member
I don't support them but I do want every Scottish team to do well in Europe.

Better coefficient makes it easier for us to qualify. Also improves quality of the league and helps us attract better players and sponsorship.

I would love the diddy teams to start regularly qualifying for group stages. None of them are going to win it.

Celtic on the other hand. I don't want to see in CL but don't mind them having an extended run in the Europa. Gives them extra games to play. It's a win, win. Either they get pumped and I can laugh at them like last week or they win and they boost our coefficient too.
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
The correlation between wage expenditure and league position is well established. If we do not spend what they do, they will win more than we do.

And increasing wage expenditure doesn't necessarily mean increasing squad size - it means increasing wages for existing players to maximise value and to recruit even better players.

The directors are fully aware of this. It's long been our goal to get into a position where we're selling a player or making the CL groups to cover the wage bill. Because if we're doing so, it means we have a squad of really good players that are successful.

We either bridge the gap or accept winning the odd league every five years.

I know what you’re saying but just think it’s a big simplification, and that it assumes that money spent will directly equate to performance which doesn’t happen nearly as much as the theory suggests.

I could give many examples but I’m sure you know them anyway.

And if you suggest you have board or management contacts that suggest that’s our objective, then I’m disappointed in them.
 

fmp

Well-Known Member
"Clubs should play fringe players in Europe. Why risk their best players when there is no hope of getting to the business end of the competitions?"

This was said to me by a Kilmarnock fan when I said the other Scottish teams needed to do better in Europe. Stupid, small club mentality.
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
If Celtic pick up a win tonight and it extends Lennons stay of execution by a week or two, that’s a good outcome for us.

I won’t be cheering for that, but I’ll be absolutely fine with it if it happens

I dont mean to sound like I'm having a go mate, but I dont understand why anyone thinks Lennons job is remotely in trouble. They are 3pts behind if they win their game in hand and hes won* every trophy hes went for. Its a complete fallacy to suggest hes even remotely under pressure of the sack. He could lose his next 2 games and still not be in any danger whatsoever of losing his job. Its a narrative being pushed by the mhanks who see their precious "ten" being thrown away.

They are hemorrhaging money, so if they did sack him. Thats more money down the pan, then they would be under pressure to replace him with a "name" so thats more money. They don't have it, and quite honestly Lennons a useful patsy for their board to throw under a bus when we win 55.

Sorry about the rant. I just keep seeing this narrative appear, and supposed bears hoping they win games to keep him in a job that hes not even in danger of losing in the first place
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
The correlation between wage expenditure and league position is well established. If we do not spend what they do, they will win more than we do.

And increasing wage expenditure doesn't necessarily mean increasing squad size - it means increasing wages for existing players to maximise value and to recruit even better players.

The directors are fully aware of this. It's long been our goal to get into a position where we're selling a player or making the CL groups to cover the wage bill. Because if we're doing so, it means we have a squad of really good players that are successful.

We either bridge the gap or accept winning the odd league every five years.
It is not about how much you spend, it is about how wisely you spend it
 

Big Buff

Well-Known Member
I know what you’re saying but just think it’s a big simplification, and that it assumes that money spent will directly equate to performance which doesn’t happen nearly as much as the theory suggests.

I could give many examples but I’m sure you know them anyway.

And if you suggest you have board or management contacts that suggest that’s our objective, then I’m disappointed in them.
It's the only logical solution. If you think that we're simply going to remain more efficient than Celtic forever then that's significantly more unrealistic than anything I've proposed.
 

Mr Bear

Well-Known Member
If Celtic pick up a win tonight and it extends Lennons stay of execution by a week or two, that’s a good outcome for us.

I won’t be cheering for that, but I’ll be absolutely fine with it if it happens
Same sentiments here mate - so long as the Taigs win or drop enough points that helps the coefficient, but dumps them out at the group stage, I’m happy.

As much as I enjoy seeing them take a shoeing in Europe, having them in the group stage keeps them occupied whilst they still have to take care of domestic games. And at present, with the Sheep and Hiv’s breathing down their neck, they are under serious pressure....... which is nice.
 

fmp

Well-Known Member
I know what you’re saying but just think it’s a big simplification, and that it assumes that money spent will directly equate to performance which doesn’t happen nearly as much as the theory suggests.

I could give many examples but I’m sure you know them anyway.

And if you suggest you have board or management contacts that suggest that’s our objective, then I’m disappointed in them.
It's critical to spend money efficiently. Celtic have been really wasteful with all the millions they got through entry in to the CL by default with ridiculous purchases, a huge squad and overpaid numpties. We can't and won't do that.

Buy low, develop, sell high, invest, build.
 
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Big Buff

Well-Known Member
I dont mean to sound like I'm having a go mate, but I dont understand why anyone thinks Lennons job is remotely in trouble. They are 3pts behind if they win their game in hand and hes won* every trophy hes went for. Its a complete fallacy to suggest hes even remotely under pressure of the sack. He could lose his next 2 games and still not be in any danger whatsoever of losing his job. Its a narrative being pushed by the mhanks who see their precious "ten" being thrown away.

They are hemorrhaging money, so if they did sack him. Thats more money down the pan, then they would be under pressure to replace him with a "name" so thats more money. They don't have it, and quite honestly Lennons a useful patsy for their board to throw under a bus when we win 55.

Sorry about the rant. I just keep seeing this narrative appear, and supposed bears hoping they win games to keep him in a job that hes not even in danger of losing in the first place
Celtic's underlying numbers are awful, where ours are very good. It looks as if the teams have flip-flopped from Gerrards first season.

Neil Lennon getting the sack is only a matter of time unless he can arrest Celtic's poor performances and get them playing within a system again. He's shown absolutely no ability to do that.

His sacking is not a case of if, but when.
 

Degausser

Well-Known Member
"Clubs should play fringe players in Europe. Why risk their best players when there is no hope of getting to the business end of the competitions?"

This was said to me by a Kilmarnock fan when I said the other Scottish teams needed to do better in Europe. Stupid, small club mentality.
There’s no hope of them getting to the business end of the league either so when do they play their “best” players? :))
 

Burgh Loyal

Well-Known Member
Question for the uber staunch.
Are you happy playing 4 qualifiers? Last season started on July 10th ffs, this impacts our players not having a proper summer or enough of a break before pre season. It could be argued we simply suffered burn out in January as a result.
If we win the league this year next season starts August 10th with 2 qualifiers. Whether you like it or not, Scotland requires both us and them doing well to maintain our standing at a level where less qualifiers are required.
 
coefficient ???
All going to plan, we win league then automatic entry to CL. Go in at any level, we have proved we can qualify from preliminary rounds. Don’t give any Scottish club opportunity to make money. Think only if ourselves, nobody cared about us.
 

Strathbungo Bear

Well-Known Member
I don't care at all about the other clubs in Scotland they tried to kill my club. However I love Rangers and I want what's best for us, and if Scottish teams were to start doing well in Europe it would hugely benefit us. Entry into more prestigious competitions at later stages with more prize money is the direct benefit. But there are tons of indirect benefits, the revenue those teams earned would allow them to build better sides which would raise the quality of the league we play in. This in turn would generate higher television and sponsorship revenues for us. Its a virtuous circle. All that said I still smile when Celtic and Aberdeen lose.
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
Don't think supporting them would make a blind bit of difference. Like wee davie the bluenose wanting motherwell to beat beer sheeva wouldn't have changed the outcome, the problem is the other teams in this country are utter pish and given the contempt these clubs have shown towards us I'll never be anything but happy at them getting pumped out.
They deserve all they get. They are so blind in their hatred for us that they can't see the bigger picture. On balance and for the sake of the Co efficient there's no one else to lay a glove on any European counterparts but them and even they have been shown up big time.
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
Celtic's underlying numbers are awful, where ours are very good. It looks as if the teams have flip-flopped from Gerrards first season.

Neil Lennon getting the sack is only a matter of time unless he can arrest Celtic's poor performances and get them playing within a system again. He's shown absolutely no ability to do that.

His sacking is not a case of if, but when.

I disagree mate. For as bad as theyve played and outwith the old firm theyve only dropped 4pts. The same number as us. Bad performances aren't relevant if they get results. I actually expect them to take maximum points before we play them again.

Heres a scenario as well, we could easily drop points against Kille, then momentum could swing back their way.

We should want them to lose every single game, and hope they turn on themselves and implode. That means to hell with the coefficient I hope Lille scud them tonight
 
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