Uncapped Scottish Bears

gersintaethum said:
Not exactly on topic but John McGovern captained the Nottingham Forrest team that won a league and 2 ECs.
For us Russel and Brown are the obvious ones. The whole rotation thing between Goram and Leighton was a sham too. Cost Scotland at the 92 Euros.
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Scotland at that period had a ridiculous amount of talent, the likes of Souness, Hartford, Rioch, Gemmil and Masson were just some of the players in midfield.
 
Follow Follow All the Way said:
Interesting about Bomber, I didn't know that. Did Gough not also have a similar issue with the school teacher mentality? I can remember reading something about Craig Brown being more fussed about boot colour and sock tape than the game.
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Bomber mentioned this a few times - more interested in the colour of sock tape than tactics. Nothing more than school teachers who were elevated way beyond their capabilities.
 
erskine bear said:
Whilst playing 20/30 games a season consistently under Advocaat . Then went to play in two major finals for Dunfermline was he any worse than dross like Lee Wilkie ?. When you look at some of the diddies who got capped in the late 90s and early 00s you can’t think it’s too far fetched.
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Exactly, did Gary Kenneth not get a cap?
 
Business_Bear said:
Exactly, did Gary Kenneth not get a cap?
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Yep, Steven Caldwell has 12 caps also. Terrifying.

Paul Ritchie has 7 caps round about the same time (not saying hes a diddy), compare him to Wilson. One was deemed surplus to rangers, the other wasn't.

Derek Whyte was still being capped also at this time. There is a valid argument the SW deserved a cap.
 
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Gee said:
For a Rangers or celtic player with over 100 games not to be capped he must not have been very good simple as that Brown was a great club player and worse players than him were capped however in his time he was well down the list of centre backs and even further down the list of midfielders he was unlucky Russell was a decent player but simply not as good as others at that time It is all about timing hence Maurice Ross Kirk Broadfoot Steven Hughes and Colin Jackson were all capped
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Gee said:
I agree but again there were a lot of better CBs around at that time McQueen for instance
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Absolute fuckin' joke that you put Colin Jackson in that company.

Colin Jackson won 8 Caps for Scotland in a 13 month period between Apr 75' and May 76' when his team Rangers had won back to back League Titles, and just completed the Treble,
and Jackson was never in a losing Scotland side (all against decent opposition).
His final game for Scotland was a 2-1 victory v England.

Perhaps, if Mr Ormond had used Colin Jackson in the previous 'Auld Enemy' clash a year earlier, instead of
"McQueen for instance", we might not have been humiliated 1-5 at Wembley to a poor England side that had failed miserably to qualify for the World Cup Finals the previous year, and failed to beat Wales and Northern Ireland the previous week!
 
erskine bear said:
Yep, Steven Caldwell has 12 caps also. Terrifying.

Paul Ritchie has 7 caps round about the same time (not saying hes a diddy), compare him to Wilson. One was deemed surplus to Rangers, the other wasn't.

Derek Whyte was still being capped also at this time. There is a valid argument the SW deserved a cap.
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I'd have said so, he was no superstar but I don't recall him having too many howlers.
 
MO_TxTruBlu said:
Absolute fuckin' joke that you put Colin Jackson in that company.

Colin Jackson won 8 Caps for Scotland in a 13 month period between Apr 75' and May 76' when his team Rangers had won back to back League Titles, and just completed the Treble,
and Jackson was never in a losing Scotland side (all against decent opposition).
His final game for Scotland was a 2-1 victory v England.

Perhaps, if Mr Ormond had used Colin Jackson in the previous 'Auld Enemy' clash a year earlier, instead of
"McQueen for instance", we might not have been humiliated 1-5 at Wembley to a poor England side that had failed miserably to qualify for the World Cup Finals the previous year, and failed to beat Wales and Northern Ireland the previous week!
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That is absurd , Jackson wasn’t the best he was decent and a great servant he was steady,good in the air despite not being the tallest, but very slow across the ground and all in all very lucky to be capped McQueen was a far superior player in every department and we had others at that time too Buchan Holton Hansen were all around then too
 
erskine bear said:
Can we include Scott Arfield ?. His omission for years I always found strange.
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Was actually thinking the same myself, was always strange that he never got a senior callup for Scotland. Playing regularly and impressing at Huddersfield and more so Burnley yet he never got a look in.
 
Davie Weir said:
Was actually thinking the same myself, was always strange that he never got a senior callup for Scotland. Playing regularly and impressing at Huddersfield and more so Burnley yet he never got a look in.
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I'm not even being biased from a rangers point, i always wondered how he was nowhere near the squad. Same with Jack when he was at Aberdeen. Again, look at some of the dross getting caps.
 
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On another bashing of Brown and Roxburgh.

Both of these climbed the ranks from U21and below to become Scotland manager none of these donkeys had pedigree. It is actually embarrassing to think that our Hope's for success were on the shoulders of two dumplings who never actually done it at a great level prior to this.

Then again the national team boss might not have been as well paid and glorious as in the modern days.
 
Scotland seem to have been very wasteful with their resources over the years due to poor handling of players and poor selection, particularly Rangers players.

Gough should have been partnering Hendry in the mid 90s that could have been an outstanding central defence.

The likes of Levein, Brian Irvine, Brian Martin better than Bomber?

There is no justification for Tosh McKinlay over Davie Robertson, ludicrous mismanagement.

Ian Ferguson and Ian Durrant class acts barely used at all.

Duncan Ferguson could have been an absolute machine at international level up front with the likes of McCoist.
 
Gee said:
That is absurd , Jackson wasn’t the best he was decent and a great servant he was steady,good in the air despite not being the tallest, but very slow across the ground and all in all very lucky to be capped McQueen was a far superior player in every department and we had others at that time too Buchan Holton Hansen were all around then too
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Ha ha haaaa :p
You call me absurd, whilst ignoring every single fact that I clearly pointed out to you.
Only a fool would dare to put Colin Jackson in the same bracket as Maurice Ross, Kirk Broadfoot, and Stephen Hughes.

Jackson walked into a Rangers team that won 3 League Titles in 4 years (including 2 Trebles).
When Rangers finally won their first championship for 11 years in 74-75,
Jackson would start in 33 of the 34 games.
In the Treble winning side of 75-76, Jackson would start in 52 of the 55 games.
In the Treble winning side of 77-78, Jackson would start in 51 of the 53 games.
Jackson played a pivotal part in two of our greatest ever results at Ibrox against Bayern Munich and Juventus.
Jackson averaged 40 games a season for Rangers for 12 years (1970-82), despite being a back up in two of those seasons.
Jackson collected 12 Winners medals (3 League Titles, 3 Scottish Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 ECWC).

And you still harp on about McQueen, who was Scotland's Centre Half in the most humiliating defeat to the English in a Lifetime.
McQueen in his 15 Year career, at two of England's biggest Clubs, Leeds Utd and Man Utd collected
2 Winners medals (1 League Title, 1 FA Cup).

As for your other comparisons, other than Martin Buchan, you are talking even more Shite.
Martin Buchan though, was more like competition to Tom Forsyth in the Scotland set up, as opposed to being an out and out Centre Half.
Jim Holton by the end of 1974 was nursing a broken leg in the English Second Division, and never played for Man Utd again.
Alan Hansen was not even the best Hansen at Partick Thistle, who were in the second tier of Scottish Football in 75-76.

Them is facts.....try dealing with them, instead of shitting on a great Ranger!
 
Gee said:
For a Rangers or celtic player with over 100 games not to be capped he must not have been very good simple as that Brown was a great club player and worse players than him were capped however in his time he was well down the list of centre backs and even further down the list of midfielders he was unlucky Russell was a decent player but simply not as good as others at that time It is all about timing hence Maurice Ross Kirk Broadfoot Steven Hughes and Colin Jackson were all capped
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Bit unfair to bracket Colin Jackson with the others mentioned, he was a couple of level at least above them. Got to remember that he was playing at time when Scotland had very good central defenders but when he was called on he played his part very well indeed.
 
erskine bear said:
I’m being serious though, Arfield didn’t identify as Canadian till he was 27/28. So strange for him to never even be called up.
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Arfield has been capped at all the youth levels for Scotland, and I think he was the captain of the U-21s., but was ignored while playing in the Premier League for Burnley and the Championship for Burnley and Huddersfield.

Shocking, considering the dross Scotland have called up over the years. No wonder he got fed up and decided to play for Canada.
 
tcbuzz said:
Arfield has been capped at all the youth levels for Scotland, and I think he was the captain of the U-21s., but was ignored while playing in the Premier League for Burnley and the Championship for Burnley and Huddersfield.

Shocking, considering the dross Scotland have called up over the years. No wonder he got fed up and decided to play for Canada.
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Agree 100%.
 
Davie Weir said:
Was actually thinking the same myself, was always strange that he never got a senior callup for Scotland. Playing regularly and impressing at Huddersfield and more so Burnley yet he never got a look in.
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Agreed, Strachan was choosing players like Barry Bannan without even considering Arfield who was playing regularly in the EPL
 
Follow Follow All the Way said:
Interesting about Bomber, I didn't know that. Did Gough not also have a similar issue with the school teacher mentality? I can remember reading something about Craig Brown being more fussed about boot colour and sock tape than the game.
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I heard this at the time.
Brown didn’t like our man because he taped outside his socks!
Ridiculous, until you consider one of Gough’s negatives about the duo was that they wanted him to partake in some quiz on a plane on the way home.
Bonding, if that’s what it was about, only gets you so far.
 
tazzabear said:
You reckon he deserved a cap?
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I think that there is a case to be made for a utility player at any level.

Especially since it was 2 from 5 subs inc a goalkeeper.

But I was probably too young to make a sound judgement on Miller.

Ally Dawson won caps and captained the Bears. Was there a big difference in class?

If I'd been picking the Scotland team when Stein was manager it would have been 9 Bears plus Souness and Dalglish. Although DJ's loss of form and weight gain might have forced me to play Joe Jordan too. Strachan would have made the bench.

I'm not convinced they would have faired that much worse! :))
 
Steve Snedden said:
If I'd been picking the Scotland team when Stein was manager it would have been 9 Bears plus Souness and Dalglish. Although DJ's loss of form and weight gain might have forced me to play Joe Jordan too. Strachan would have made the bench.

I'm not convinced they would have faired that much worse! :))
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I'm curious which 9 Rangers players would you have picked.
Stein took over in the 78-79 season, when we had a team that was coming to the end of it's shelf life, and would finish 2nd, 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th during Stein's second tenure as Scotland's manager.
I can't think of many that were worthy of a Cap, other than Davie Cooper, and possibly Jardine who was nearing the end of his Rangers career.
 
MO_TxTruBlu said:
I'm curious which 9 Rangers players would you have picked.
Stein took over in the 78-79 season, when we had a team that was coming to the end of it's shelf life, and would finish 2nd, 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th during Stein's second tenure as Scotland's manager.
I can't think of many that were worthy of a Cap, other than Davie Cooper, and possibly Jardine who was nearing the end of his Rangers career.
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I'm very glad that you asked! :))

Jim Stewart

Sandy Jardine, Tam Forsyth, Colin Jackson, Ally Dawson

Tommy McLean Jim Bett Graeme Souness, Davie Cooper

Kenny Dalglish , Derek Johnstone


Please bear in mind I was born in 1973.

Even when we were shit I still believed in every single one of them.

And the Europa 80 and France 84 QF's were abysmal.

I really didn't like Stein and I had know idea who he was.
 
Steve Snedden said:
I'm very glad that you asked! :))

Jim Stewart

Sandy Jardine, Tam Forsyth, Colin Jackson, Ally Dawson

Tommy McLean Jim Bett Graeme Souness, Davie Cooper

Kenny Dalglish , Derek Johnstone


Please bear in mind I was born in 1973.

Even when we were shit I still believed in every single one of them.

And the Europa 80 and France 84 QF's were abysmal.

I really didn't like Stein and I had know idea who he was.
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Fair play to you, that does not look as bad as I feared it would.

I am no fan of Jock Stein either, and I blame him for our failure to reach England 66' in his first spell as Manager, when I believe we had a reasonable chance of actually winning it.
I also think that the players he had available to him in 82', should have seen us advance further than we did.
Prior to thr 82' World Cup he had a wealth of talent to choose from
Full Backs....S.Jardine, D.McGrain. D.Narey, G.Burley, R.Stewart. F.Gray, W.Donnachie. A.Forsyth
Centre Backs.....A.McLeish, W.Miller, A.Hansen, K.Burns, G.McQueen, M. Buchan, P.Hegarty
Midfield......G.Strachan, G.Souness, J Wark, A.Gemmill, A.Hartford, J.Bett, J.Robertson, D.Cooper
Strikers......K.Dalglish, J.Jordan, A.Gray, S.Archibald, P.Sturrock.
He could have fielded a side of European Cup winners.
Prior to the 82' World Cup, English sides had won the previous 6 European Cups on the trot, and there were at least a dozen Scotsmen in those sides.
 
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helicopter-sunday said:
Bob Malcolm
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I always remember growing up thinkin Bob Malcolm was nothing but a Goon type player sent out to just do the opposition but heard a few interviews now talk about how good his passing was and that if he was only a bit faster he could have been some player.
 
007 said:
I always remember growing up thinkin Bob Malcolm was nothing but a Goon type player sent out to just do the opposition but heard a few interviews now talk about how good his passing was and that if he was only a bit faster he could have been some player.
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I used to have the exact same opinion as you but looking back, his passing ability was genuinely some of the best Ive ever seen from a Rangers CB, it was Adam'esque. Now, the rest of his game wasn't the greatest and he seemed to find himself at the centre of more than the odd defensive calamity, but as far as passing goes he was right up there.
 
Knightswoodbear said:
I used to have the exact same opinion as you but looking back, his passing ability was genuinely some of the best Ive ever seen from a Rangers CB, it was Adam'esque. Now, the rest of his game wasn't the greatest and he seemed to find himself at the centre of more than the odd defensive calamity, but as far as passing goes he was right up there.
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Loved a tackle too and wasn't shy in getting involved in a rammy. Had a decent spell in England too with Derby I think. Meant to be a decent coach now too.
 
Gee said:
For a Rangers or celtic player with over 100 games not to be capped he must not have been very good simple as that Brown was a great club player and worse players than him were capped however in his time he was well down the list of centre backs and even further down the list of midfielders he was unlucky Russell was a decent player but simply not as good as others at that time It is all about timing hence Maurice Ross Kirk Broadfoot Steven Hughes and Colin Jackson were all capped
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Punctuation is a hell of a thing!
 
MO_TxTruBlu said:
Ha ha haaaa :p
You call me absurd, whilst ignoring every single fact that I clearly pointed out to you.
Only a fool would dare to put Colin Jackson in the same bracket as Maurice Ross, Kirk Broadfoot, and Stephen Hughes.

Jackson walked into a Rangers team that won 3 League Titles in 4 years (including 2 Trebles).
When Rangers finally won their first championship for 11 years in 74-75,
Jackson would start in 33 of the 34 games.
In the Treble winning side of 75-76, Jackson would start in 52 of the 55 games.
In the Treble winning side of 77-78, Jackson would start in 51 of the 53 games.
Jackson played a pivotal part in two of our greatest ever results at Ibrox against Bayern Munich and Juventus.
Jackson averaged 40 games a season for Rangers for 12 years (1970-82), despite being a back up in two of those seasons.
Jackson collected 12 Winners medals (3 League Titles, 3 Scottish Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 ECWC).

And you still harp on about McQueen, who was Scotland's Centre Half in the most humiliating defeat to the English in a Lifetime.
McQueen in his 15 Year career, at two of England's biggest Clubs, Leeds Utd and Man Utd collected
2 Winners medals (1 League Title, 1 FA Cup).

As for your other comparisons, other than Martin Buchan, you are talking even more Shite.
Martin Buchan though, was more like competition to Tom Forsyth in the Scotland set up, as opposed to being an out and out Centre Half.
Jim Holton by the end of 1974 was nursing a broken leg in the English Second Division, and never played for Man Utd again.
Alan Hansen was not even the best Hansen at Partick Thistle, who were in the second tier of Scottish Football in 75-76.

Them is facts.....try dealing with them, instead of shitting on a great Ranger!
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Well said Mo...the original Bomber was a rock solid center half, he may not have been blessed with pace but could read the game as good as any and put more than one revered center forward in his back pocket including his German namesake Der Bomber Muller widely accepted as one of the greatest goal scorers in history. Bomber Jackson is one of only 12 players in our 148 year history to play more than 500 games for our great Club and deserves respect as a Rangers Legend and a player who did his job, defend with no compromise.
 
The lack of caps for Brown Cooper Robertson and ferguson(ian) shows how for back the hatred towards Rangers went inconceivable these 4 players had so little caps
 
Gee said:
For a Rangers or celtic player with over 100 games not to be capped he must not have been very good simple as that Brown was a great club player and worse players than him were capped however in his time he was well down the list of centre backs and even further down the list of midfielders he was unlucky Russell was a decent player but simply not as good as others at that time It is all about timing hence Maurice Ross Kirk Broadfoot Steven Hughes and Colin Jackson were all capped
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A decent player? Suffice it to say, neither he nor Davie Cooper went to the 1982 WC. Davie Provan and Paul Sturrock did. Let that sink in.
 
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