Union Bears Have Two Choices – Lead Or Die

As things stand, I'm of the opinion that the Union Bears are finished as a fans' group.

I think that the only way back for them would be if they were to work hand in hand with the club and lead the efforts to promote non-offensive songs at Ibrox and at away games.

Now, it's not for me to tell this group what to do as I'm not and never have been a member – but, if I was, I'd be approaching the club in an apologetic manner and asking what the group can do to work with the club in an effort to help educate our wider support – and safeguard the future of the Union Bears.

Just like they do with the offensive songs the Union Bears start, the rest of the ground would follow the Union Bears' lead if they started singing only acceptable songs.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the club didn't just disband the Union Bears anyway – that's why it is, for me, imperative that the fans' group seize the initiative here to 1) lead the efforts to promote acceptable singing and 2) safeguard the future of their group and improve their relationship with the club.

Sadly, however, I think the Union Bears will take the huff again and have their silent protests etc, particularly with their section being singled out by the club over recent events with the UEFA charges.

So, instead of the fans' group – and the club – being proactive, I think that, one way or another, the Union Bears are finished.

I truly hope it doesn't come to this because there is much to admire about the Union Bears, but they need to accept criticism when it's merited – which it most definitely is in this case.
Are they collectively mature enough to recognise this, though?

I'd like to think we all – the club, the Union Bears, and the wider support – want the same thing: an
Ibrox with the world-renowned atmosphere that we're known for across the globe, but an Ibrox with a support who no longer sings the songs that will eventually lead us to being banned from Europe completely.

And, make no mistake, we will be banned from Europe if this continues.

Steven Gerrard will walk if that happens.
There's no way our manager will want to be at a Rangers who are banned from Europe – and there's no way he'll want his brand associated with a club who are banned from Europe because of what is deemed to be racist behaviour.

This would give Celtic a free run at the Champions League and effectively render us unable to meaningfully compete.

Doomsday scenario?
No, it's not.
It is a stark fact that we will be kicked out of Europe if we don't change as a support.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of posters on this board who are members of the Union Bears, and, of course, also hear from posters who aren't members of the group.
Said in another thread, the union bears should be in the middle, behind the goals with a bigger section, working with the club.
If they are in a more prominent position with more numbers then the non offensive chants would spread better I think.
I know they've tried to move and grow and been blocked but maybe this could be when a deal could be struck.
 
I love the atmosphere the UB create and hopefully they don't take the huff on this one. We just need to work with the club and stop with the songs that are deemed unacceptable. No in fighting with fans, everyone backing each other. The fight against us is bad enough without the fans arguing amongst ourselves!
 
I wasn’t a huge fan of the UB however through time have come to appreciate what they bring to the atmosphere. As well as working with the club, they need some form of engagement with the wider support. Like many on here, I’ve been going to games since before the majority of the UB were born, my support of Rangers is equally as important as theirs. The only way to progress this is through unity, strength in numbers.

And without going into a separate discussion, @Gallant_Few you have hit the nail on the head with your last line, there may be far wider implications of this whole saga.

Let’s wake up.
 
For those, predictably, saying it's wrong to single out the Union Bears, I can't be any clearer in my OP about what I want to happen going forwards:
I want the Union Bears to work with the club to achieve the end result of a packed and atmospheric Ibrox with the fans' group leading the way and showcasing their many admirable qualities.

The Union Bears are not immune from criticism, however – and certainly not over this current issue with UEFA.

Actually, I don't know why I'm spelling this out, it's all there in the OP.
I'm just not sure some posters are actually reading what I've said.

Don't get upset it's been typical of the forum over the past 24 hours

So many posters seem to be unable to grasp the facts - the closure relates to the st Joseph's game in a uefa competition

BF is where TBB came from (albeit quietly but that's neither here nor there)so that's the section being closed

Everyone just wants their tuppence worth and to try justify it by saying 'everyone else does it'

The bit most are failing to see is that if we don't sort it out starting with BF on this occasion, the whole stadium will then be looked at, and I wouldn't be surprised if the club start making examples of folk and removing season tickets should we all not get the message at ALL games
 
As things stand, I'm of the opinion that the Union Bears are finished as a fans' group.

I think that the only way back for them would be if they were to work hand in hand with the club and lead the efforts to promote non-offensive songs at Ibrox and at away games.

Now, it's not for me to tell this group what to do as I'm not and never have been a member – but, if I was, I'd be approaching the club in an apologetic manner and asking what the group can do to work with the club in an effort to help educate our wider support – and safeguard the future of the Union Bears.

Just like they do with the offensive songs the Union Bears start, the rest of the ground would follow the Union Bears' lead if they started singing only acceptable songs.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the club didn't just disband the Union Bears anyway – that's why it is, for me, imperative that the fans' group seize the initiative here to 1) lead the efforts to promote acceptable singing and 2) safeguard the future of their group and improve their relationship with the club.

Sadly, however, I think the Union Bears will take the huff again and have their silent protests etc, particularly with their section being singled out by the club over recent events with the UEFA charges.

So, instead of the fans' group – and the club – being proactive, I think that, one way or another, the Union Bears are finished.

I truly hope it doesn't come to this because there is much to admire about the Union Bears, but they need to accept criticism when it's merited – which it most definitely is in this case.
Are they collectively mature enough to recognise this, though?

I'd like to think we all – the club, the Union Bears, and the wider support – want the same thing: an
Ibrox with the world-renowned atmosphere that we're known for across the globe, but an Ibrox with a support who no longer sings the songs that will eventually lead us to being banned from Europe completely.

And, make no mistake, we will be banned from Europe if this continues.

Steven Gerrard will walk if that happens.
There's no way our manager will want to be at a Rangers who are banned from Europe – and there's no way he'll want his brand associated with a club who are banned from Europe because of what is deemed to be racist behaviour.

This would give Celtic a free run at the Champions League and effectively render us unable to meaningfully compete.

Doomsday scenario?
No, it's not.
It is a stark fact that we will be kicked out of Europe if we don't change as a support.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of posters on this board who are members of the Union Bears, and, of course, also hear from posters who aren't members of the group.


No player, manager, fans group or anyone else, is bigger than the club, that's a fact.

However I'm a bit more optimistic than you that the UBs may learn from this and heed the final warning.

Ibrox is a better arena with them in it, but their support and singing MUST meet the non negotiable criteria that's been outlined.

Hopefully they will, or else they're history.
 
Good post op.

Hopefully people can see that it's not a finger-pointing, full blame on UB scenario. Like others, I'm a fan of a lot of what they add to matchday experience and we all share some responsibility / accountability for what is sung and the situation we now find ourselves in. But the key word here is "lead" and no doubt about it imo, the UB are by far the fans group (in terms of inside the stadium) who collectively need to change their mindset the most and are in the best position to make a real positive impact by adopting a revised and mature approach to the existing songbook.

Rather than take the huff, see it as a compliment- they lead, we follow in terms of what is sung. And they could also play a pivotal role in drowning out illicit chants from other areas of the stadium if they do start, as we know it's not all solely down to them.

Their buy in to the new way of thinking and the actions that MUST be taken for the good of our club and is actually vital to the whole thing working imo. I sincerely hope they want to work with the club on this and come to the table ready to discuss and adapt. Outright defiance will sort nothing out and just lead to more disharmony and future punishment.
 
But did you sing them after UEFA told us not to in 2006?

The BB was finished at Ibrox (except in a random outbreak v Queen’s Park). But hasn’t been creeping back since around 2015. The UB arnt blameless in that, I was in the BR for the Hibs game and was really surprised that Ross was on the mic leading into the BB by singing the original version (which would obviously lead to Debian blood). I am always a supporter of their attempts to improve Ibrox, but a bit of egoism has taken hold.

I think you can possibly work back to unravel event from spring.

- chants at Steve clark
- board tell UB they are not moving to BF3
- UB protest
- board looking for a smoking gun to close area for good

This looks like it has an inevitable, depressing ending.

The UB’s have been unhappy with the club for a long time for a number of reasons but, it only ends one way.

If Ross is leading the UB into singing TBB then he’s a moron. Utter stupidity.
 
Ask they question of who reported them .

Some times its the principle not the point that needs to be looked at.

Serious questions need to be asked of FARE and their credibility. They continually attack our club and our club only.

Doesn’t matter. One bit.

TBB was sung with add ons. The club has told us not to for over 10 years. Moronic.
 
Ask they question of who reported them .

Some times its the principle not the point that needs to be looked at.

Serious questions need to be asked of FARE and their credibility. They continually attack our club and our club only.

FARE would love it if the UB walked. They're not alone.
 
1OO% spot on the money. I`ve sang songs that would get us banned now, most probably have if you're being honest. We need the UB to step up, think about it and do the correct thing.
 
Said in another thread, the union bears should be in the middle, behind the goals with a bigger section, working with the club.
If they are in a more prominent position with more numbers then the non offensive chants would spread better I think.
I know they've tried to move and grow and been blocked but maybe this could be when a deal could be struck.
Yesterday’s events have put paid to that notion for the foreseeable future. The Club, rightly, will not reward those in the UB who contributed to this punishment with an enlarged and more prominent position. Absolutely not going to happen.

If the UB react positively to this, if their statements move from ones of antagonism towards the club and defensiveness, then in the future this can happen. If they go on the front foot not just in promoting new songs (as they have) but in making publicly clear that the will not sing banned song / words and encouraging the wider support to join them; then in the future they’ll absolutely deserve it.

Right now, it’s not going to happen.
 
I'd wholeheartedly echo the OP and implore anyone prominent in the Union Bears, if you're reading, to work with the club in this situation.
 
Cant argue with any of that. The stakes are enormous. No way Gerrard will hang about if we have been kicked out and banned for being 'racist'. Yes we know 19th Century Terrorist is not a race but UEFA dont give a %^*&. I'm worried that our season is about to be derailed massively because if this.

Hope can respond in the right way. The media are gonna be all over this and it'll take pressure off the tramps.
 
I agree and disagree with the OP.

Where I disagree is that I don’t think it fair to lay the blame for this on the Union Bears alone, as the post implies. That would be too easy and it doesn’t address the broader issue we have as a support. We’ve all been at games when Ibrox has bounced with all four stands joining in. Especially in the bigger, more emotional games when passions are raised. Let’s be honest with ourselves.

Where I agree however is that this is definitely a watershed moment and change has to happen now. There are no more excuses and there is no more time to avoid the issue. It doesn’t matter what the other lot sing, it doesn’t matter that they often refer to themselves using the F word, it doesn’t matter that Fare seem obsessively focused on Rangers. These are simple realities. We can’t fix any of that and, while we should continue to vigorously pursue equality and balance on this topic in the media and with the authorities, we have to start by fixing it for Rangers and the Rangers support, or we’ll have zero credibility. This is our problem to deal with and it’s time to do so. On this front I also agree with the OP that the Union Bears can play a critical role. I really hope they don’t adopt a defiance strategy. I’d like to think that they will realise the seriousness of the situation we are in and resolve to work with the club and the broader support to address the issue once and for all and move on. There is definitely a leadership opportunity here for the UBs to grasp the moment and develop a songbook that positively supports Rangers and our heritage whilst keeping us away from the tentacles of Fare, UEFA and the media who will all be hyper attentive to anything we sing going forward. If we don’t do this now, either led by the UBs or the broader support taking ownership of it, then a full stadium closure, getting kicked out of Europe or point deductions are inevitable consequences, as would be losing our manager as he’d surely jump ship to the first EPL opportunity that came up, should this depressing set of circumstances arise. Surely no genuine bear, UB or otherwise, wants any of these things to happen to our club?
 
They staged a protest, as is their right, but you describe it as a "huff". That's disrespectful and, dare I say it, immature.

Dont forget the UB are fans like you and me. They work hard to create an atmosphere while others do nothing. If they walk away Ibrox will be dead. That might suit some.

Fair enough.
I accept that part could've been worded better.

However, it takes little away from the constructive point I'm trying to make.

And, as I keep saying, if the Union Bears don't adopt a constructive position on this matter, they simply won't have a choice to walk away – the club will take matters into their own hands.
 
Doesn’t matter. One bit.

TBB was sung with add ons. The club has told us not to for over 10 years. Moronic.

FARE would love it if the UB walked. They're not alone.

Exactly , who needs enemies eh?

The FARE mob must be looking in here laughing saying “ mission complete”

Bears blaming other bears and turning on each other on the say so of undercover mentally challengeds.

It’s embarrassing.

And before the do gooders jump on this im
All for brushing up the songbook in Europe as UEFA Are blinded by these cretins at FARE. We need to be smarter.

But the main objective is the same , they need called out and blacklisted and only the club can do that. They have done everything else in their power.
 
We need to change and the UB can lead from the front and its also up to the club to reach out and work together.Lets box clever and create new songs that are fun and other clubs copy,on european nights we could have banners that support charities(Erskine,Cancer reserch etc).Lets not give the bastards who want us dead ammunition.
 
Exactly , who needs enemies eh?

The FARE mob must be looking in here laughing saying “ mission complete”

Bears blaming other bears and turning on each other on the say so of undercover mentally challengeds.

It’s embarrassing.

And before the do gooders jump on this im
All for brushing up the songbook in Europe as UEFA Are blinded by these cretins at FARE. We need to be smarter.

But the main objective is the same , they need called out and blacklisted and only the club can do that. They have done everything else in their power.

Nobody but our own sing about 19th Century Terrorists at European games.
Going after that lot while not addressing our own problem is not the main objective right now.

We won't win that battle.

How do you blacklist the organisation accredited by UEFA anyway?
 
Exactly , who needs enemies eh?

The FARE mob must be looking in here laughing saying “ mission complete”

Bears blaming other bears and turning on each other on the say so of undercover mentally challengeds.

It’s embarrassing.

And before the do gooders jump on this im
All for brushing up the songbook in Europe as UEFA Are blinded by these cretins at FARE. We need to be smarter.

But the main objective is the same , they need called out and blacklisted and only the club can do that. They have done everything else in their power.

We all know it’s unfair. We all know they are singling us out and the makeup of the FARE officials, is at the least, suspect.

However, it’s happened and we NEED to address this as a support.

We have many refusing to change their ways or caught up in “what about celtic”.

That attitude will see us kicked out of Europe and docked points in the SPFL.

The SFA and FARE are waiting for us to slip up.

Will we oblige our enemies again or will we for once, be smart?
 
This wont go down well on here. Far too honest.
It's been accepted it spread around the stadium, it was reported by FARE as being sung in BF1 and is widely accepted this is where it originated that night.
There's no way a small pocket start it up in the Main Stand and then it spreads round the stadium and kicks the BF into song, it's very easy to see it the other way though.
The toss can be argued with the rights and wrongs of FARE and their agenda but they have UEFAs ear
 
Listen if religion was so important to us or the darkside the majority of our fans would be spending their Sunday’s at a church singing hymns, not spending it at a football stadium singing songs about the troubles in Northern Ireland.

FFS sing about Rangers! Sing about Laudrup, Baxter, Cooper and Greig! Sing about people and events that have directly influenced this club.
 
Nobody but our own sing about 19th Century Terrorists at European games.
Going after that lot while not addressing our own problem is not the main objective right now.

We won't win that battle.

How do you blacklist the organisation accredited by UEFA anyway?

When they have an agenda based on the kind of “ problems” they aim to be eradicating would be a good start?
 
They staged a protest, as is their right, but you describe it as a "huff". That's disrespectful and, dare I say it, immature.

Dont forget the UB are fans like you and me. They work hard to create an atmosphere while others do nothing. If they walk away Ibrox will be dead. That might suit some.
At the moment it could be shut.
 
I read the first few paragraphs and stopped.

The UB are being blamed for this I see? Utterly laughable and for me it’s shameful seeing some determined to throw the only bit of atmosphere under the bus.

If it wasn’t for these lads then Ibrox would be horrendous on matchdays. We seen that for ourselves during their silent protests

The club are making them an easy scapegoat by shutting them down and not letting them relocate.

Next Sunday the full stadium will be singing the billy boys, you can take that as a 99% certainty. Will the UB get the blame for it?
 
Fair enough.
I accept that part could've been worded better.

However, it takes little away from the constructive point I'm trying to make.

And, as I keep saying, if the Union Bears don't adopt a constructive position on this matter, they simply won't have a choice to walk away – the club will take matters into their own hands.

As per my earlier post I agree with the majority of your original post and totally agree with your point about the opportunity the UBs have to take a leadership role in moving us forward. I hope they do. But I also agree with you that if this doesn’t happen the future of the UBs is very uncertain as the club will no longer tolerate anything that will lead to further UEFA sanctions or worse. It’s a depressing reality but it’s one that the support, including the UBs, can fix .
 
Ask they question of who reported them .

Some times its the principle not the point that needs to be looked at.

Serious questions need to be asked of FARE and their credibility. They continually attack our club and our club only.
Ajax had their section shut down that produced a banner with 19th Century Terrorist written on it, this was 6 years ago. FARE do attack our club and our supporters but the work 19th Century Terrorist is deemed racist by UEFA. This is all FARE's doing but they have UEFAs ear
 
When they have an agenda based on the kind of “ problems” they aim to be eradicating would be a good start?

So how do you ban them when UEFA regard them as the ultimate authority on fan behaviour?
How long would that take?
And meantime, how do we protect our club from more damage from them?
 
Maybe if the union bears are actively seen/heard trying to help the songsheet then the club would be more encouraged to cater for them. It is a shame I'm all for dropping the word 19th Century Terrorist and we have a load of acceptable songs that we no longer sing that need brought back.
UB sing Rangers songs no one outwith the BF joins in unless Super Rangers, TBB or No surrender starts.
 
Doesn’t matter. One bit.

TBB was sung with add ons. The club has told us not to for over 10 years. Moronic.

The last time we encountered these fines, warnings etc was before we went into administration. You are talking at least 10 years ago this was last brought up with threats of action against the club. As we rose through the divisions it was never an issue as we didn’t have uefa watching.

The average age of the UB must be late teens. They were babies when we went through this before and probably didn’t fully understand the problems we’ve faced before and how powerful uefa can be with their no nonsense approach.

This isn’t the time to point fingers and look for scapegoats. The UB are an important part of our support and do fantastic work, least to mention their charity work away from Ibrox that never seems to make the media. Let’s stick together and make sure we don’t give anyone any excuse to punish us further
 
I read the first few paragraphs and stopped.

The UB are being blamed for this I see? Utterly laughable and for me it’s shameful seeing some determined to throw the only bit of atmosphere under the bus.

If it wasn’t for these lads then Ibrox would be horrendous on matchdays. We seen that for ourselves during their silent protests

The club are making them an easy scapegoat by shutting them down and not letting them relocate.

Next Sunday the full stadium will be singing the billy boys, you can take that as a 99% certainty. Will the UB get the blame for it?
It's not a UEFA competition though is it, with strict liability rules in place, with a precedent already set against Ajax closing a section for a banner with the word 19th Century Terrorist.
 
Stevie G will not walk if there’s no Europe. Purely based on opinion of course. We are his first job, he’s not going to walk away from us, into another club who ARE in europe so why would he bother?

And likewise SG knows that the Union Bears do not represent Stevie G as a brand, neither does Rangers.

It does however need to stop.
 
I read the first few paragraphs and stopped.

The UB are being blamed for this I see? Utterly laughable and for me it’s shameful seeing some determined to throw the only bit of atmosphere under the bus.

If it wasn’t for these lads then Ibrox would be horrendous on matchdays. We seen that for ourselves during their silent protests

The club are making them an easy scapegoat by shutting them down and not letting them relocate.

Next Sunday the full stadium will be singing the billy boys, you can take that as a 99% certainty. Will the UB get the blame for it?

I'm not sure how you can have a balanced opinion on the OP when you've admitted you stopped reading after a few paragraphs.

Why not try to read the entire OP and then make your points?
 
Much of the problem comes at away games. We could stop selling tickets for these but they can bought elsewhere anyway. The club should state that part of the stadium will be closed for two home games if these problems continue and hit the club with fines etc.

If the singers and those who run on the park at a goal realise the club have had enough perhaps they will finally show support and sing what is acceptable.
I think in the end it will take some drastic action which will cost our club cash and points before we start to identify and clear out those who no longer support our club but just have their own views on why they go to games.

Its a sad day when it is our own fans that are against the wishes of our club.
 
Yesterday’s events have put paid to that notion for the foreseeable future. The Club, rightly, will not reward those in the UB who contributed to this punishment with an enlarged and more prominent position. Absolutely not going to happen.

If the UB react positively to this, if their statements move from ones of antagonism towards the club and defensiveness, then in the future this can happen. If they go on the front foot not just in promoting new songs (as they have) but in making publicly clear that the will not sing banned song / words and encouraging the wider support to join them; then in the future they’ll absolutely deserve it.

Right now, it’s not going to happen.
If they work with the club it could be the best way to change for the better.
Not saying it will happen but it should.
 
Exactly , who needs enemies eh?

The FARE mob must be looking in here laughing saying “ mission complete”

Bears blaming other bears and turning on each other on the say so of undercover mentally challengeds.

It’s embarrassing.

And before the do gooders jump on this im
All for brushing up the songbook in Europe as UEFA Are blinded by these cretins at FARE. We need to be smarter.

But the main objective is the same , they need called out and blacklisted and only the club can do that. They have done everything else in their power.

What about cleaning it up domestically before they inevitably come after us there? We need to reprogram our songbook and get used to it so we dont ever find ourselves in this position again. Unfortunately I feel this will get worse before it gets better. Most of the songs we need to get rid off are a dirge at best and a total brass neck at worst.
 
The song was mostly put to bed about 10-15 years ago (rightly or wrongly) people arguing about what the word 19th Century Terrorist means are wasting their time, that battle has been lost.

I agree with the OP that if the Union Bears don’t lead from the front and are proactive in approaching and working with the club they are probably finished.

I hope someone in the group shows leadership and they don’t go into huff mode because after this the club would find it easy to disband the section.

Finally we all have a responsibility, what an absolute riddy it must be for Gerrard to sit at a pre match press conference and answer questions about catholic schools and religion.
 
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If I was in the UB I'd would be proud that so many in our wider fans group are looking to you for answers, shows the respect in general fans have for what you do.

From what I can see the OP is asking the UB to help.

Take your medicine and help drive the club forward.

All other comments around this is just noise.

UB do a great deal for the match experience. They have been caught out.

Accept that, and let's all move on together.
 
Ditch the minority narrative and pinning the blame on the UB. Unfair in the absolute extreme to blame them for singing the only songs that Ibrox joins in for.

Whole support needs to ditch Bobby Sands, FTP and 19th Century Terrorist reference and learn the words to things like Wolverhampton Town and Trip to Ibrox which the Union Bears sing but nobody joins in amongst others.

If we sang our actual decent, less inflammatory cultural tunes properly alongside this like Englishman’s Betrayal and Wee Spot in Europe the atmosphere would be so much better and no one can complain. Best of both worlds.
 
If I was in the UB I'd would be proud that so many in our wider fans group are looking to you for answers, shows the respect in general fans have for what you do.

From what I can see the OP is asking the UB to help.

Take your medicine and help drive the club forward.

All other comments around this is just noise.

UB do a great deal for the match experience. They have been caught out.

Accept that, and let's all move on together.
Best reply to OP. Seems you have read his post properly. Also your advice to UB is on the money. I just hope they take it.
 
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