Union Bears Statement on UEFA's decision

Mate, I'm not playing with your words, I'm quoting your words.

Read my posts in the thread. I'm not here for "likes" I'm trying to understand and help others understand just where we are at as a club and a support.

I'm more critical of the board than the UB's but let me ask you some things;

Are you a member of the UBs?
Did you have any involvement in their statement?
Do you support the statement?
What do you think it achieves?

I really want to help the UB's but I think that you /they are being badly advised. The statement refuses to accept either any accountability for what happened nor the reality of the situation.

It makes it easy for the club to ignore your point of view and is therefore self-defeating.
1- no in a old timer first game in 70’s
2- no
3- to a certain extent
4- I think they had to make a statement , are they blameless -no , but is it just then -no , but as a support we need to unite and become one voice
 
'Without FARE, we still fall foul of article 14' your words in the first reply.

I'm still no further forward to understanding why...........despite the Jews.

Off to bed now mate, good night.
To me it's clear to see we do with or without fare. But if you want a definitive answer again I'd suggest asking uefa.

Good night
 
You are aware that our many haters claim that our official club song, Follow Follow, is anti Irish and sectarian because it mentions Dublin ? The bigots that hate Rangers can never be appeased.
Are you saying we’ll be punished by UEFA for singing about football because after 3 days you still can’t get your head round us not being allowed to sing about 19th Century Terrorists? Last season, I spent days arguing with you and a few others that we were going to get hammered for these songs. You couldn’t get it into your head then and even after we’ve been forced to close a section you’re still arguing.
 
I dont think it was that great myself.

I think it was great that Gregg was prepared to engage in a dialogue with fans on FF. He obviously loves Rangers like the rest of us but they are also his employer.

I thought he was pretty clear in as much as he explained exactly what had happened and how he was engaging with RSC's the UB's and other influencers.

I think the problem is more to do with the clubs strategy which is above his pay-grade.

I felt that he was taking on board our views and I'm confident he'll reflect them back to the club.

What they choose to do with it is a greater concern.
 
Ok. We have been punished for singing songs.

Your post blamed our MD, Head of Security, unnamed ‘enemies’. You just manage to not hold any accountability to those who actually carried out the action that we were punished for.

What will Rangers do if FARE report our official club anthem, Follow Follow, as anti Irish and sectarian because it mentions Dublin ? Don't think it could never happen.
 
I think it was great that Gregg was prepared to engage in a dialogue with fans on FF. He obviously loves Rangers like the rest of us but they are also his employer.

I thought he was pretty clear in as much as he explained exactly what had happened and how he was engaging with RSC's the UB's and other influencers.

I think the problem is more to do with the clubs strategy which is above his pay-grade.

I felt that he was taking on board our views and I'm confident he'll reflect them back to the club.

What they choose to do with it is a greater concern.
we'll agree to disagree then
 
so why haven't Celtic had stand partial closures for their banners?
Because their offences (in europe anyway) have been deemed to be political, or for flares or for other reasons(banners about palestine, %^*& uefa etc.) Not sticking up for them. Greg Marshall said earlier their offences in europe came under regulations other than article 14 and so came with other penalties.

I dont tend to watch them if I dont have to so I dont know if they have had a rendition of sad orange bastards in europe recently. If it crops up I'd expect that to be falling foul or article 14.
 
1- no in a old timer first game in 70’s
2- no
3- to a certain extent
4- I think they had to make a statement , are they blameless -no , but is it just then -no , but as a support we need to unite and become one voice

The trouble is neither the UB's or the club have given us anything that we can get behind. I also think these divisions are very worrying.

However, they can't claim to be the voice of Ibrox and then issue a pretty immature statement.

The singing was reported as coming from BF1. We have to close part of Ibrox. We need UEFA and have to accept their rules and judgements.

THe UB's should have issued a statement of culpability and commited to making sure they prevent it from happening again.

If we want to play in Europe then our songbook has to change. I don't like it but I'll accept it because european football is so important to us for so many reasons.

Our culture is under attack. But not from UEFA.
 
What will Rangers do if FARE report our official club anthem, Follow Follow, as anti Irish and sectarian because it mentions Dublin ? Don't think it could never happen.

Far more likely to be reported for fans singing FTP in the middle of it than a mention of Dublin. But why jump to some random hypothetical, this isn’t scope creep it is about the same thing it has been about for over a decade now.
 
So explain it then?????????

I'll log in again in the morning.

I've already tried to explain why I think the context in how the word 19th Century Terrorist is used is the reason we fall foul. 19th Century Terrorist doesnt have to mean catholic for this to be the case. Pick on any group and say we're up to our knees in their blood and it would be sectarian. Look up the meaning of the word sectarianism. It doesnt have to be religious
 
Because their offences (in europe anyway) have been deemed to be political, or for flares or for other reasons(banners about Palestine, %^*& uefa etc.) Not sticking up for them. Greg Marshall said earlier their offenses in Europe came under regulations other than article 14 and so came with other penalties.

I dont tend to watch them if I dont have to so I dont know if they have had a rendition of sad orange bastards in europe recently. If it crops up I'd expect that to be falling foul or article 14.


You don't need to watch them to know hat they have been charged with!

they have been charged with banners featuring bobby Sands and their Palestinian nonsense and charged a few times with pro-IRA chanting and singing for their "up the Ra "chants which is anti-British racism for me.
 
Excellent reply, but you've still not explained how '19th Century Terrorist' fails article 14.

UEFA decided it fails article 14, agreed, but based on who's advice?

I've been in many different cities, matters not a fucking jot to the word 19th Century Terrorist and article 14..
They class it as discrimination, have a read at the ajax case where Ajax fans had a banner saying 19th Century Terrorist bastards. Our old friend from nil by mouth was one of the witnesses used. He even said some celtc fans call themselves that ironically as a badge of honour to reclaim the word!

Ajax even used the defence of Celtc fans call themselves 19th Century Terrorists and it was thrown out as a large number would be offended when called that. ( even though the same amount or in reality a larger number would be proud to be called that )

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/disciplinary/disciplinary-cases/cases/index.html. November 2013.

So, no matter what I think, you think or the union bears think, UEFA class it as discrimination. End of story. We can't defend it because they have already made a decision on it and they will not change their minds.

We MUST change or face more closures or be banned. It's that simple.
 
Far more likely to be reported for fans singing FTP in the middle of it than a mention of Dublin. But why jump to some random hypothetical, this isn’t scope creep it is about the same thing it has been about for over a decade now.

You really don't understand the hive mind of the bigots who hate our club, mate. Bigots who now have political influence over institutions like UEFA as we're witnessing at present. They see everything associated with Rangers as racist or sectarian. The Union flag, the RHOU, the Bouncy, even our red and black socks in our strip. The list goes on.
 
You don't need to watch them to know hat they have been charged with!

they have been charged with banners featuring bobby Sands and their Palestinian nonsense and charged a few times with pro-IRA chanting and singing for their "up the Ra "chants which is anti-British racism for me.
As much as thay is despicable and disgusting to normal human beings like you and I, the fact that they were charged with being PRO something and we ANTI probably is the difference. Like I said. The minute they start singing about sad orange bastards etc. I'd expect them to get their ban
 
As much as thay is despicable and disgusting to normal human beings like you and I, the fact that they were charged with being PRO something and we ANTI probably is the difference. Like I said. The minute they start singing about sad orange bastards etc. I'd expect them to get their ban
do you think they dont do anything sectarian when in Europe?
 
do you think they dont do anything sectarian when in Europe?

Most definitely they do I would think.

They havent been charged for a sectarian offence(yet) though which is why they havent had a stadium ban yet.

This is the last I'm going to post on any of this tonight as I'm off to bed shortly.
 
They’ve become something that’s more likely to harm our club that benefit it and for that I’m done with them and their supporters. I’m sorry but I’ve argued til I’m blue in the face but they still just don’t get it. Our energy is needed elsewhere this season and here we are using it all on fucking arguing about sectarianism.

Totally over the lot of them.
 
Most definitely they do I would think.

They havent been charged for a sectarian offence(yet) though which is why they havent had a stadium ban yet.

This is the last I'm going to post on any of this tonight as I'm off to bed shortly.
their bobby sands banner was sectarian and that's the point. why havent they been charged under the same regulation?

thats why many want the club the challenge this and you can appeal
 
That was not the case though. UEFA ordered closure of 3000 seats. FARE reported to UEFA that the offending song began from within that section. Rangers can’t tell them to %^*& off, and they can’t close another section and ignore the section that FARE took issue with. That is the difference in the emails received by Supporters in the BF1 and those being moved from the CD7 who are only being moved for logistical purposes as BF1-3 is not enough to equate to the 3000 ordered by UEFA to be closed. FARE’s focus On who was conducting the choir with a Megaphone that can be heard above everything else. I think the UB are great for the atmosphere but we are at stage now of having stadium closures and expulsion. Nobody is denying most of the Stadium joined in.. but the UB left themselves wide open to FARE and Rangers have to be seen to doing something or face the further wrath. I don’t support their position, they should heid the warning before it costs us much more than a section closure. Can you image what would happen if we were expelled from Europa? Can you image how Gerrard and the Team digest that? We are now playing with fire. Our enemies are great and to their delight we are going to turn on ourselves. The banner today and this statement plays right in to their hands.
If we get banned from Europe, we will need a new manager, Gerrard will be gone and the promise of better times for us will be gone with him.
 
Ok. We have been punished for singing songs.

Your post blamed our MD, Head of Security, unnamed ‘enemies’. You just manage to not hold any accountability to those who actually carried out the action that we were punished for.
You didn’t read my post that much is obvious, either that or you are unable to parse a sentence, despite your username. It’s quite a long post and I’m not going back over it solely for your benefit.
 
Follow Follow is an old redemption hymn. It became an anthem of the Rangers following and even the great Sir Harry Lauder sang it on his album about a Rangers cup final team from the 30's. The Dublin thing is historic (after the war) as the Unionist were being ethnically cleansed from the Southern counties of Ireland. In fact outside Ulster, the pale (blue around Dublin v the dark blue of the city itself) was the last bastion of Britishness.

For twenty years plus I have sung the offending line "Dundee, Hamilton, Aberdeen and back again". However, the real words are just a repetition of "Follow, Follow, we will follow Rangers". I do believe the Dublin bit is neither sectarian nor racist - if fact it became more commonly Dublin because it rhymed with Berlin which was the wartime version.
 
When we beat the scum 2-0 last year the majority of the stadium sang We Are Rangers, add ons and all, loudest being the Copland Road stand. Was that the Union Bears fault as well or do all the hypocrites just forget that ? They are easy targets as they are the only ones who add anything to our home games. Before any wet wipes who don’t even go to the games who are telling supporters to %^*& off and that they should be disbanded or whatever come on to answer, I agree the sectarian pish has to stop and agree it has no place at our games.
They are easy targets because they are the ones who very specifically did it.v st Joseph's.
 
Dignified Silence from a Board happy to "Use" the fans and their money but posted missing when the going gets tough.

For those handwringers who are simplistic to think our enemies will stop at one word i urge they step back and consider that "Hoakey Coakey" was being lined up to better and Jail Bears.

The Board are weak, they lose every battle they go into be it SFA, Mhedia or High Court - their only "Victory" was on the back of us, the Rangers fans. I fear that this weakness will see us abused by corrupt officials and authority - if we do go clear in the league i fully expect a points deduction for us shouting too loud at a goal or being too British !

I understand we take the "hit" - but the way our Board have rolled over and shafted it's own is frankly quite disgusting.

You absolutely don’t deserve the current board at all.
 
I don't think the board has much choice - it's no they who are corrupt but UEFA who are both anti-semitic and anti-Protestant (they have also been anti-orthodox for years) We know FARE are biased but If you look back on UEFA sanctions and consider the make up of those who make decisions they are institutionally racist.
 
Should TBB be allowed? Absolutely.

Are UEFA opposing free speech whilst wrapped up in their own hypocrisy? Without a doubt.

Are FARE dodgy as f**k? Do bears shite in the woods?

HOWEVER

Have the Union Bears misjudged the situation and how to play this game? I think so. Time to rethink our tactics and our mode of attack as a group of individuals.

Oh. And sack Stewart Robertson. Immediately.
 
Yes because it both acknowledges the problem and shows that they are taking ownership of the problem.

Just how often do you think it needs saying? I mean, it's said on the screens right up til kickoff, it's in the HT video packages on RTV too. At what point do you think some people are just claiming a lack of leadership when the reality is they're still looking for someone else to blame?

Here's a few selected mentions:


From Follow With Pride (2007)

It is important all fans believe they are ambassadors for the Club and help protect and enhance Rangers reputation.

With this in mind supporters are asked to:

  • Sing the songs which celebrate the club, its honours and achievements both past and present
From Everyone Anyone (2019)

Rangers is for everyone and anyone and this campaign will send a clear message of zero tolerance to all forms of discrimination, on and off the pitch.

Ahead of today’s league game against Hibs it is important to remember there is no place in football or society for homophobia, racism or sectarianism – this Everyone Anyone campaign will promote the positive aspects of the fanbase and attempt to educate those who indulge in such behaviour.

Dave King (2019):
"We will continue to do everything we can at our club to root sectarianism out and to deal in the strongest manner possible with any individuals that are found to have engaged in such practices," said King.

Steven Gerrard (Feb 2019) :

For me, at the risk of repeating myself, we don't want to hear that or see anything. I was quite clear in my press conference last week. There's no place for it. We want it to stop

Club Spokesman (Apr 1999):
Rangers FC supports any move to bring to an end the singing of sectarian songs and the shouting of sectarian chants.

"After all, it has been our objective to eradicate the sectarian element from Rangers Fotball Club and the Rangers support.

Or if all that is a bit too 'new age handwringer support' for you, try Mr William Waddell (1972):

The greatness of this club has been smeared all over the world by an unruly mob, who spread destruction and venom wherever they go.

It’s to these tykes, hooligans, louts and drunkards, who have no respect for society, that I pinpoint my message.

It’s a declaration of war by Rangers. With the support of the police, we will do everything possible to clean up the morass you are spreading.

So you are warned. Do not bring alcohol into stadiums. Do not throw cans. Do not use obscene language. Do not sing provocative songs.
 
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How anyone can disagree with that statement is beyond me, the idea of our fans coming together at all is an absolute fantasy and that's the exact reason why we're so easily attacked.

Boys who travel home and away who have pretty much exclusively been responsible for moving the songbook in the right direction made total scapegoats for a song which has never once been started by the UB themselves since the start of BF1.

Less than 20% of the section will be UB and theres a large number with tickets elsewhere in BF who make it to about 3 games a season (maybe 4 if you include the legends ones) who frankly couldn't give a %^*& about Rangers tan 2 bottles of wine, squeeze in and sing what they want. This is absolutely rife at European qualifiers and I'd challenge anyone whos sat in the section during one of these games to say otherwise.

Scunnered at some of what I'm reading on here to be honest, seems loads are happy to join FARE, UEFA and now the club itself in a direct attack against them and ultimately our support as a whole.
 
Just how often do you think it needs saying? I mean, it's said on the screens right up til kickoff, it's in the HT video packages on RTV too. At what point do you think some people are just claiming a lack of leadership when the reality is they're still looking for someone else to blame?

Here's a few selected mentions:


From Follow With Pride (2007)


From Everyone Anyone (2019)



Dave King (2019):


Steven Gerrard (Feb 2019) :



Club Spokesman (Apr 1999):


Or if all that is a bit too 'new age handwringer support' for you, try Mr William Waddell (1972):

These are all generalisations.

The club should spell out exactly which songs and chants are prohibited*.

Fans in their teens and early 20s might not be aware of the 2006 UEFA ruling or even the law in Scotland (OBFA has been withdrawn).

There is also a lot of copy-cat behaviour where if some people hear, for example, TBB start up they automatically join in without thinking.


* The media would try to embarrass the club over leaflets or whatever but that's better than closure of the ground.
 
You really don't understand the hive mind of the bigots who hate our club, mate. Bigots who now have political influence over institutions like UEFA as we're witnessing at present. They see everything associated with Rangers as racist or sectarian. The Union flag, the RHOU, the Bouncy, even our red and black socks in our strip. The list goes on.
oooft tinfoil hat on or you're at the wind up, i agree there's a bit bias going on but most of that is straight up paranoia.

the ONLY way to fight this (as ive said about a dozen times on here) drop the songs with offending lyrics (religious & violent references) and all is well there is really no hard thinking about this, if you can't do that (as the club has requested) then it then you that becomes the problem
 
These are all generalisations.

The club should spell out exactly which songs and chants are prohibited*.

Fans in their teens and early 20s might not be aware of the 2006 UEFA ruling or even the law in Scotland (OBFA has been withdrawn).

There is also a lot of copy-cat behaviour where if some people hear, for example, TBB start up they automatically join in without thinking.


* The media would try to embarrass the club over leaflets or whatever but that's better than closure of the ground.
Sorry Deedle, but that's just making excuses for folk now.

There is no way that people genuinely don't know what is and isn't acceptable.

The teens and early 20s you speak of don't know the 2006 UEFA ruling or the current law, but they know who Bobby Sands is enough to say fućk him? That then begs the question 'who, exactly, is teaching them this shite'?
 
These are all generalisations.

The club should spell out exactly which songs and chants are prohibited*.

Fans in their teens and early 20s might not be aware of the 2006 UEFA ruling or even the law in Scotland (OBFA has been withdrawn).

There is also a lot of copy-cat behaviour where if some people hear, for example, TBB start up they automatically join in without thinking.


* The media would try to embarrass the club over leaflets or whatever but that's better than closure of the ground.
anything that is derogatory towards protected characteristics -: Race, Gender,
These are all generalisations.

The club should spell out exactly which songs and chants are prohibited*.

Fans in their teens and early 20s might not be aware of the 2006 UEFA ruling or even the law in Scotland (OBFA has been withdrawn).

There is also a lot of copy-cat behaviour where if some people hear, for example, TBB start up they automatically join in without thinking.


* The media would try to embarrass the club over leaflets or whatever but that's better than closure of the ground.
any lyrics that are derogatory towards protected characteristics:

Race, religion, Belief, Gender etc.. are all protected by legislation and you can be prosecuted for being derogatory towards person/people because of one of these characteristics has been this way for almost 10 years, but its been in the rules of competition that at least one of our songs has been banned longer than that (TBB)
 
These are all generalisations.

The club should spell out exactly which songs and chants are prohibited*.

Fans in their teens and early 20s might not be aware of the 2006 UEFA ruling or even the law in Scotland (OBFA has been withdrawn).

There is also a lot of copy-cat behaviour where if some people hear, for example, TBB start up they automatically join in without thinking.


* The media would try to embarrass the club over leaflets or whatever but that's better than closure of the ground.
Even if the board did exactly what you (and others) suggest, there'd still be a line around the block to give them a kicking for capitulation, or surrendering our values or some such nonsense.

'aye, well, Robertson would say that. He's spineless. How come he's telling us anyway, should be King'

'King has lived in South Africa for years, he doesn't know what it's like. How come he's having to speak about this, is that no what Robertson is for? Just shows how useless Robertson is'

'who is Gerrard to tell us not to FTP? He went tae a kafflick school.'
 
Can’t argue with them tbh. Rather than liase with them to find a solution the club have took the easy option

What solution? If the UB didn’t start the Billy Boys who did? Now I was at the game and genuinely cannot recall the Billy Boys being sung and I agree with the UB statement that they’re an east target and I’ve no idea who started the song but clearly someone did. I’d like to see the club call out FARE more than UEFA calling out UEFA if pointless as corrupt as they are they’re in charge.
 
Wise up, mate. UEFA knew nothing of the Billy Boys and only acted after the outrage from within Scotland after they threw out the charges and Rangers were cleared. They were pressured to include it for sanctions afterwards, but not from within UEFA, and why would they ?
There is a specific directive since 2006 from Uefa that bans the song TBB by our club in its entirety in any form whatsoever. We fought it in 2006 and lost. There was a whole thread on this. If we sing it, even with changed lyrics, we face sanctions - the next sanction being full stadium closure, followed by expulsion. Its uefa's tournaments and they set the rules, we might not like the rules but if we break those rules we don't play in their tournament.
 
What solution? If the UB didn’t start the Billy Boys who did? Now I was at the game and genuinely cannot recall the Billy Boys being sung and I agree with the UB statement that they’re an east target and I’ve no idea who started the song but clearly someone did. I’d like to see the club call out FARE more than UEFA calling out UEFA if pointless as corrupt as they are they’re in charge.
you can't call out corruption/perceived bias from a position of weakness, once we sort out our own shit (we better or we're f*cked) then the club (if it wanted to) can take on FARE
 
Do you not think they should accept some responsibility?

They should accept some but so should everyone else, that's the point they have been thrown under the bus and singled out. As most have said they sing tbb too.

The easy fix is to completely stop singing the songs find a new 1 in it's place.
 
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