Union Bears Statement on UEFA's decision

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
It's difficult. But I do think the club is victimising the Union Bears. %^*& me, the whole stadium was belting out Super Rangers at Midtjylland, myself included. Unless the club, the fans, and the Bears get together, we'll end up fragmented and weaker (if that's possible) than we are now.
 

Kaiserweiss

Well-Known Member
And by the way for the record the sooner people accept that the F word Amis essentially the N word in the footballing world then we will be faced with closers and or expulsion
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
I understand their anger but they have some basics wrong here.

This isn’t a disproportionate punishment. Read article 14 in UEFA’s rules - it’s the minimum punishment.

The point re singing I can’t agree with. Had numerous meetings that spoke about singing in the section, including one following the charge.

We need to face up to facts here. In UEFA’s rules we are guilty. There is no defence that will work. We need to drop the discriminatory songs.

I have stated many times that I feel the UB are unfairly solely blamed for the singing but BF1 was the origin of the charges on that night.

We need the support to unite on this. Until we face up to the facts of the situation we are in we are extremely vulnerable to further sanctions
It has to be faced.

This "stop picking on us ,it winsae me "attitude will get us nowhere, other than a further punishment.

Serious engagement and dialogue is required.
 

Govan_derry

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
This isn’t difficult. We were told by UEFA in 2006 that the Billy Boys and Fenian were not acceptable. There competition their rules. And they don’t care what you or I think a Fenian is. Even if they did, they would point to the decisions of the Scottish Courts.

We had a 3 year suspended stand closure in 2011. The only surprise is people are surprised by this.
As I said in a previous post what age do you think the average UB member was in 2006?

As we rose up through the divisions the billy boys n super Rangers re appeared after our last warnings. I didn’t hear the club come out once and say this is banned stop singing it. The club has to take its share of the blame for not keeping on top of the issue and being pro active rather than re active.

I’m not privy to the discussions between the UB and the club but I’m sure if the club had issues with the songs being sung in the past they should have dealt with the UB’s songs well before now.

We are all to blame, I sung the billy boys at the St Josephs game as did the majority of the ground. We should be united in how we go ahead positively from here not looking for scape goats and falling out
 

Greg Marshall

Well-Known Member
Greg, I get the impression that you work tirelessly for the good of the club and for that you have my sincere thanks.

I do question the clubs strategy of back-door engagement though. It's something we've seen a few times. It's akin to all the times The Board uses c1872 rather than being forthright and direct.

I'm not blaming you. I do wonder who is advising the club to conduct "guerrilla" engagement though.

It seems to be their go-to position and it's dangerously close to being counter-productive.

Your efforts would be much more successful if the club were also capable of something much more straightforward. Something that DK and SR would hang their own hats on.

Do you remember Walter Smith saying that he'd sung the songs and that times changed?

I always thought that was impressive leadership.
We’ve agreed and are in the final steps of formulating a range of fan engagement initiates focussing on focus groups. You may have noticed we held 2 meetings at the hibs game recently. That’s on a range of topics not exclusive to fan behaviour.

I also met with RSC reps at the end of last season and will be following up with more meetings there. On the same day I had a meeting with club 1872 members.

We do a fair amount of work there but I’m pleased that the club are putting more resource into the area (some of the commercial/marketing team are involved now) and I’m sure as the details emerge they will be well received.

But Dave King and the club have been really clear on this. It has to stop.
 

StirlingGer

Well-Known Member
I think people are misunderstanding how UEFA apply their rules. We are being punished. Rangers will have been told which sections to close where songs were coming from. I’m sure if Rangers could re-allocate all supporters they would have done so.

Poor statement. Wrong tone.
They could easily have canceled the last 3000 tickets on public sale and re-allocated BF1 supporters. They probably knew about this before Thursday and could have restricted the public sale in the first place. Instead the powers at be made the decision to deliberately ban only those supporters in BF1. I am not a member of the UB and I don't sit in BF1 so I am unaffected, but it is an absolute disgrace how they have been vilified by the club.
 

Steve Snedden

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that King and Robertson shy away from any "proper" fan engagement.

For things to change they need to adapt their approach. If not we will just go round in circles. We need leadership. And we need it now more than ever!!

Let's be hearing you Dave King, Stewart Robertson. Engage with the most important people in Rangers!!
I think they're embarrassed, unsure and being badly advised.

Would the sky fall in if they acknowledged our roots, accepted the world has changed (whether we like it or not) and commited to working with fans, organisations, etc to eradicate, educate and transform our fans and songbook.

We're not the only club in Europe facing sanctions. Perhaps we could seek out a club who have managed to change their fan culture. A sort of "best practice"

We can still get out in front of this and turn it into a massive success.

If we're smart. And brave.
 

Hank

Well-Known Member
Again, from the club's statement.

"UEFA has ruled that a group of Rangers supporters were guilty of racist behaviour – which includes sectarian singing ..."
What did UEFA’s own observer report have to say about the game? Bearing in mind that FARE are an independent (I know) observer.
 

Carson’s Army

Well-Known Member
What do you see our identity and beliefs as?

I suspect for everyone it's a bit different.

The only collective belief we have is that Rangers are the greatest football club on the planet and should be successful in everything it does.
As a proud British club with a great heritage. That we should remember and not give away so easily for the people that fought for us to have it in the first place
 

Coops2016

Active Member
I don’t think it is confusing tbh. It’s possibly just unpalatable to those who have sang them for years.

Anything that is perceived to be sectarian. Any reference to the F word or catholics/pope in any form that could be considered discriminatory.

We can’t negotiate our way away from this crossroads. The songs stop or the club could be immensely damaged.
Greg I have massive respect for the very difficult job you have but can you answer the question on were they told not to start the Billy Boys as per the 2006 ruling ?
 

Greg Marshall

Well-Known Member
We can, however, highlight that there are many who work for FARE who make it their business to damage us in anyway they can.

They will continue to do so if the Club doesn't call them out for what they are.
If your statement is correct then they can only damage us if we sing the songs that could get us charged. They can’t make up songs that didn’t happen.
 

Allysgoldenboot

Well-Known Member
I just don’t think this topic needs engagement. It is utterly straightforward.

It’s not like this is some random thing out of the blue is it?

I am more than happy for engagement with the fan base on loads of issues, but don’t see how this is complicated.
As I said in my opinion its not complicated, the club imo needs to take the lead here. If you don't agree that this is an issue that needs engagement then that's fine.
 
“Supposedly sectarian and racist term”

UEFA decide during their matches what is and isn’t sectarian or racist. The Union Bears or any other Rangers fans opinion on the “f word” under debate has absolutely no bearing on anything.

The sooner everyone gets that understood the better.

To use the word supposedly in their statement shows a lack of self awareness and a ridiculous amount of naivety and immaturity IMO.
 

Porto Loyal

Well-Known Member
What about the fine for Build My Gallows? You forgot to mention this. Is this still a problem?
When was that? Osasuna? Was it ever confirmed? That was the reason? There were reports of FTP & the IRA being sung over Simply the Best that night.
 

SPRINGBOKS

Well-Known Member
Greg, I'm at a loss on this tbh, or maybe I see things much simpler than this in charge of the club.

See my earlier post, the club needs to be pro active here, they have the ears of the fan groups, bloggers, forums and the wider support.

Get them round the table and engage with them! Engage with all of us ffs!

I'm sure those life yourself, and everyone I've mentioned will get the message out loud and clear.

I'm at a loss as to why this is so difficult for the club to take the lead on this!

It's fucking baffling quite frankly!
How about the fans take the lead and stop singing the crap songs?
 

Greebo

Well-Known Member
I fully understand not singing these words of course they are wrong .
The Billy Boys in its entirety is now banned ( How you can ban a song is beyond me but it is what it is)
We now have people saying Super Rangers can’t be sung but correct me if I’m wrong that song has not been banned so the offensive word can be dropped and we continue to sing it .

I am asking if these meetings the UB were told not to start the billy boys . If so then they have themselves to blame . If not then the club are at fault
It's been banned for years, do they need told separately or they can assume the ban doesn't count for them.
What did UEFA’s own observer report have to say about the game? Bearing in mind that FARE are an independent (I know) observer.
I have no idea, I have read on numerous occasions that it has been identified that the singing started there. I cannot however confirm that for you. The club presumably could though.

The SLO who is posting on this thread may be able to help.
 

keribo

Active Member
They could easily have canceled the last 3000 tickets on public sale and re-allocated BF1 supporters. They probably knew about this before Thursday and could have restricted the public sale in the first place. Instead the powers at be made the decision to deliberately ban only those supporters in BF1. I am not a member of the UB and I don't sit in BF1 so I am unaffected, but it is an absolute disgrace how they have been vilified by the club.
and what about the banner they have to show?
 

Coplandbear

Well-Known Member
Completely agree and the board have massively let the fans down on this one.

The cowardly statement from the Club and general lack of sticking up for our supporters has been a massive own goal for the current regime imho.

Stewart Robinson being one prime example of a weak and pathetic managing director. On a par with Martin Bain for me.
 

Morton11

Active Member
They could easily have canceled the last 3000 tickets on public sale and re-allocated BF1 supporters. They probably knew about this before Thursday and could have restricted the public sale in the first place. Instead the powers at be made the decision to deliberately ban only those supporters in BF1. I am not a member of the UB and I don't sit in BF1 so I am unaffected, but it is an absolute disgrace how they have been vilified by the club.
This is the definition of whataboutery. UEFA aren’t the SPFL or what we are used to dealing with. They don’t pre-leak the decisions of their committees. Rangers will have been warned — as far as back as 2011. But the punishment will have been empathic and short notice.
 

dirtyharry

Well-Known Member
The laws are set out every year - do we need the club to send us all emails prior to a match advising us that we can’t be sectarian or racist?
Racist?

TBB's has been back in the songbook for some time now (and most certainly not just from the UB's)
.
A timely reminder of the differing standards we are held to in comparison to everyone else would have went down a treat, kinda seems obvious now does it not?

We have been given 5 games to dig a bigger hole before it was highlighted.
 

Steve Snedden

Well-Known Member
We’ve agreed and are in the final steps of formulating a range of fan engagement initiates focussing on focus groups. You may have noticed we held 2 meetings at the hibs game recently. That’s on a range of topics not exclusive to fan behaviour.

I also met with RSC reps at the end of last season and will be following up with more meetings there. On the same day I had a meeting with club 1872 members.

We do a fair amount of work there but I’m pleased that the club are putting more resource into the area (some of the commercial/marketing team are involved now) and I’m sure as the details emerge they will be well received.

But Dave King and the club have been really clear on this. It has to stop.
Thanks for your reply Greg.

I'm glad there are things going on.

However, much as I agree that it has to stop, I'm not sure DK or SR have been clear enough nor shown (becoming an over used word now), LEADERSHIP.
 

Craig McColl

Well-Known Member
What I don’t get is the cry of “it’s unfair that BF1 is affected and will miss out”......

Would it be fairer if CF1 missed out? Or GF1? Or BR3, GR2 or CR4 or anywhere in the main stand?
Anyone that signed up for CCS should've been given a ticket elsewhere in the stadium.If that meant game to game Rangers fans missed out so be it.Season ticket holders that pay 100s up front and sign up for all extras are missing out and that's not right imo.
 

Kaiserweiss

Well-Known Member
Racist?

TBB's has been back in the songbook for some time now (and most certainly not just from the UB's)
.
A timely reminder of the differing standards we are held to in comparison to everyone else would have went down a treat, kinda seems obvious now does it not?

We have been given 5 games to dig a bigger hole before it was highlighted.
I think your being slightly thick
 

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
Can you explain the 'bile' in much more detail please?
No problem.

We’ll start with songs about Fenians.
Songs about the Pope.
Songs about terrorist organisations.
Songs about dead terrorists.
Songs about paedophiles.

Bile may be a tad strong but you get the jist.

All completely unnecessary and the Union Bears would make far greater strides if they, as “the voice of Ibrox”, made a clear attempt to eradicate such songs. Their statement today would’ve been the perfect start. Build bridges with the club.
 

GodStruth

Well-Known Member
I refer you to 2011 in Eindhoven.

None of the so-called 'offending' songs were sung that night, yet FARE still reported us.
I remember that being a bit of a stitch up based on an internet video with 3 or 4 bears singing a party tune

Unfortunately UEFAs rules only require that a very small number of supporters are behaving incorrectly
 

Morton11

Active Member
We’re under threat of the stadium being closed for European games. There’s nothing exaggerated, panty wetting or nonsense about it. People go on about haters then back the biggest danger to the club.
Correct. A stadium closure would be a major setback for the football club. A PR disaster. I don’t think fans understand the ramifications at play here — sponsorships etc.
 

Paisleyprod

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The UB are generally good though some of them claim they are the atmosphere at Ibrox and every other cant are mute!

Be it UB or anyone else, if the club gets hit for singing, the section going to suffer first is the singing section.

FARE are utter cunts though and their agenda must be challenged. The UB are nowhere near as (in UEFA gobbledegook) as racist as Russians or bawbags in the Green Brigade who's antics are ignored.

All that said, no fans group or individual better get Ibrox shut or they can %^*& off.
 

Forth Bear

Well-Known Member
I remember that being a bit of a stitch up based on an internet video with 3 or 4 bears singing a party tune

Unfortunately UEFAs rules only require that a very small number of supporters are behaving incorrectly
We were reported by FARE for singing Build My Gallows in Eindhoven.
 

legalbeagle

Well-Known Member
Completely agree and the board have massively let the fans down on this one.

The cowardly statement from the Club and general lack of sticking up for our supporters has been a massive own goal for the current regime imho.

Stewart Robinson being one prime example of a weak and pathetic managing director. On a par with Martin Bain for me.
The fans have let the club down here.
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
Do you seriously think that FARE want engage?
Was talking about engagement with the fans mate, on a serious level and on this issue specifically.

We all know FARE are a farce.

Whichever way we do it the add on's have to stop and those that were responsible have to take ownership.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Why are we still debating this, everyone with a bit of common sense knows what add on or songs should not be sung, the UB has been a great influence on the atmosphere at Ibrox, but the Club has given clear warning that the 'bad' songs will not be tolerated.
If the support as a whole, not just the UB do not conform to the Clubs wishes then the ultimate power is with the Club. I have no doubt ST would be withdrawn.
When push comes to shove, practically every fan will back the Board.
So every fan no matter where they sit should realise that there is no debate about this, play the rules or leave ( I hope you all decide to play the rules and stay)
We have, in my opinion, the best fans in the world. Let's prove it
 
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