Union Bears Statement on UEFA's decision

It's going to be difficult to fight it when the club has already released a statement to the same effect.

"UEFA has ruled that a group of Rangers supporters were guilty of racist behaviour – which includes sectarian singing – during the match against St Joseph’s at Ibrox on July 18.
I could be wrong but that statement could possibly have mandatory aspects as dictated from uefa. Similar to us having to have the sign up as ordered on Thursday.
 
I'll be honest and say I don't know how this ends. They've been singled out, aye, but the songs have to stop. There is no winning this. There is no getting it up UEFA. Open defiance and a refusal to move on is going to cost Rangers very dearly and is the biggest danger to our advancement since 8 years ago. The club needed to do something and could hardly tell UEFA to just go fck themselves.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

It’s down to the club to change the hearts and minds of the support imo. They need to make a video to play on the screens at half time or before kick off, directly addressing these songs and the lyrics. Get ex players involved, and really hammer the message home in a way that isn’t patronising or demeaning.

Maybe hollicom can help. ;)
 
What on earth are you talking about? If you sing about hating people of Catholic persuasion then you deserve everything you get. It's discrimination and nearly all of the people singing these songs are just learned from others round about them.

Let's sing follow follow, let's sing every other Saturday. These songs represent me more than 'we hate roman catholics' to a fucking Tiffany song.

I've read comments on here suggesting that it's our identity. It isnt. It's anti something else rather than pro what we are.Cut it out, grow up and support your team over everything else.


Oh christ! This is clearly about so more about us than just singing a song.
 
This is my issue with UEFA. If %^*& The Pope is sectarian, then so must %^*& The President and %^*& The Monarchy must be sectarian as well. You get my point. Why is the Pope the victim here yet everyone else is exempt from the debate?

UEFA have made it clear we cannot sing anything about 19th Century Terrorists. I understand this or Ibrox will get closed and the worst outcome is we have to play behind closed doors. This cannot happen.

But I would like Rangers to at least sit down and have a discussion with UEFA about why 19th Century Terrorist should not be classed under a Racist charge. At least educate them on the definition of the word. Celtic don't use it in UEFA competition, but they do domestically via banners.

If 19th Century Terrorist is sectarian to some, then so be it, but it should NEVER be classed under UEFA rules as racist, thats a whole new topic completely.
You can argue all day about the definition of the word.

Whether UEFA deem it acceptable, whether the SFA deem it acceptable.

Regardless, do we really need to sing it?

If we want to clean up our act, we shouldn't really be up to our knees in 19th Century Terrorist blood.
 
What's sickening is that we're going into an important tie without 3000 fans because some brain donors can't work out that the 20+ years (or 47 if you include Mr Waddell's speech on the park in 1972) of being told to ditch the sectarian shite or it could have consequences wasn't some sort of empty threat.

What's sickening is that even after being told that there is a partial closure, we've had posters trying to bargain that 'we can still sing it domestically, right?'.

People being angry with a section whose noses have been put out of joint because it was their section that was closed as the UEFA delegate identified that as being the source of the chant that caused the closure? Sorry mate, you're reaching if you want me to say that's sickening.
I agree with most of what you said but its only 1 section neing punished, Rangers and the majority on here have already blamed 1 section, we need a serious grown up discussion where the club makr it known to all supporters what is unacceptable
But all i got was 3 generic emails telling my self and my kids we are not wanted because our seats are where we were allocated
Its not 1 section its the whole ground
 
What on earth are you talking about? If you sing about hating people of Catholic persuasion then you deserve everything you get. It's discrimination and nearly all of the people singing these songs are just learned from others round about them.

Let's sing follow follow, let's sing every other Saturday. These songs represent me more than 'we hate roman catholics' to a fucking Tiffany song.

I've read comments on here suggesting that it's our identity. It isnt. It's anti something else rather than pro what we are.Cut it out, grow up and support your team over everything else.


Of course its about more than just a bloody song!
 
I could be wrong but that statement could possibly have mandatory aspects as dictated from uefa. Similar to us having to have the sign up as ordered on Thursday.

Even if that's true it would still make the club look rather stupid taking newspapers to task for saying that the support had been found guilty of racism. When it had issued a statement saying that the support had been found guilty of that very thing.
 
answering for me? bizarre!

I accept we are being treated unfairly..tagged as racists when we arent and that for me is outrageous.
did you read the charge or just see racist and take it out of context, under uefa article rules sectarian chanting comes under Article 14 Racism, other discriminatory conduct and propaganda
 
I agree with most of what you said but its only 1 section neing punished, Rangers and the majority on here have already blamed 1 section, we need a serious grown up discussion where the club makr it known to all supporters what is unacceptable
But all i got was 3 generic emails telling my self and my kids we are not wanted because our seats are where we were allocated
Its not 1 section its the whole ground
There was always going to be innocent people like yourselves* caught up in it, but when the club have been told to close a particular section (as suggested earlier in the thread), there's not much that can be done about it.

As for the club needing to make it known to all supporters what is unacceptable - how come so many of us are already clear about what is unacceptable then?

*I'm making the assumption that you're angry because your conscience is clear and you and your boys were not involved.
 
We (all of us) need to own this.

At the moment we are doing our standard, fragmented finger-pointing and moaning.

The legitimacy of the charges/punishment and the balance in applying the laws are not the most pressing issues - They should only be challenged when we have a cohesive, joined-up approach
to which we are all aligned to.

We as a support have allowed songs that are deemed unacceptable to become more and more commonplace. The reasons for this vary but the result was inevitable.


The board and fans need to meet via whatever conduit and agree; no FTP or 19th Century Terrorist chants.

The board then need to make a clear public statement promoting the agreement as a positive step that others should follow.
 
Article 14 of UEFA Disciplinary Regulations:

Article 14 Racism, other discriminatory conduct and propaganda

1 Any person under the scope of Article 3 who insults the human dignity of a person or group of persons on whatever grounds, including skin colour, race, religion or ethnic origin, incurs a suspension lasting at least ten matches or a specified period of time, or any other appropriate sanction.

2 If one or more of a member association or club’s supporters engage in the behaviour described in paragraph 1, the member association or club responsible is punished with a minimum of a partial stadium closure.


3 The following disciplinary measures apply in the event of recidivism: a. a second offence is punished with one match played behind closed doors and a fine of € 50,000; b. any subsequent offence is punished with more than one match behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

4 If the circumstances of the case require it, the competent disciplinary body may impose additional disciplinary measures on the member association or club responsible, such as the playing of one or more matches behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

5 If the match is suspended by the referee because of racist and/or discriminatory conduct, the match may be declared forfeit. 6 The above disciplinary measures may be combined with specific directives aimed at tackling such conduct.
 
answering for me? bizarre!

I accept we are being treated unfairly..tagged as racists when we arent and that for me is outrageous.
That's right, your head is buried firmly in the sand. Until we all accept there is an issue with these chants, then it will be very difficult for us to change. And guess what happens then?
 
For UEFA, racist and discriminatory behaviour falls into the same category.


Celtic have always been charged with illicit chanting and having illicit banners and we have been charged with racist chanting. that's what I'm questioning... why?
 
There was always going to be innocent people like yourselves* caught up in it, but when the club have been told to close a particular section (as suggested earlier in the thread), there's not much that can be done about it.

As for the club needing to make it known to all supporters what is unacceptable - how come so many of us are already clear about what is unacceptable then?

*I'm making the assumption that you're angry because your conscience is clear and you and your boys were not involved.
Because some people obviously haven't taken it on board, the club have the name address and email of everyone that buys a ticket, email every tell them whats unacceptable and they will be punished
But it appears easier to blame a section of the support and plenty on here have jumped on that to blame bf1
Personally speaking i have never felt less part of the 'Rangers family'
 
That's right, your head is buried firmly in the sand. Until we all accept there is an issue with these chants, then it will be very difficult for us to change. And guess what happens then?


Its not, my head is very much above the parapet and questioning the double standards.
 
I think a lot of people seen the GB banner regarding 19th Century Terrorists and think that the word isn’t offensive after all.

Definitely more singing of the BB since then.
 
Article 14 of UEFA Disciplinary Regulations:

Article 14 Racism, other discriminatory conduct and propaganda

1 Any person under the scope of Article 3 who insults the human dignity of a person or group of persons on whatever grounds, including skin colour, race, religion or ethnic origin, incurs a suspension lasting at least ten matches or a specified period of time, or any other appropriate sanction.

2 If one or more of a member association or club’s supporters engage in the behaviour described in paragraph 1, the member association or club responsible is punished with a minimum of a partial stadium closure.

3 The following disciplinary measures apply in the event of recidivism: a. a second offence is punished with one match played behind closed doors and a fine of € 50,000; b. any subsequent offence is punished with more than one match behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

4 If the circumstances of the case require it, the competent disciplinary body may impose additional disciplinary measures on the member association or club responsible, such as the playing of one or more matches behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

5 If the match is suspended by the referee because of racist and/or discriminatory conduct, the match may be declared forfeit. 6 The above disciplinary measures may be combined with specific directives aimed at tackling such conduct.


so what about their pro-IRA anti- British racism then? why isnt that racism?
 
I'm guessing that UEFA couldn't be arsed having dictionary debates with folk about whether they were being sectarian, bigoted, xenophobic or racist, so just lumped it all under 1 umbrella.

They define it as skin colour, race, religion or ethnic origin in article 14.
 
Celtic have always been charged with illicit chanting and having illicit banners and we have been charged with racist chanting. that's what I'm questioning... why?

I don't know the complete details of their charges but it was for Pro IRA chanting which is not considered to be discriminatory under section 14.

Our chanting has been considered to fall under that - look at the case with Ajax and their banner for further evidence.

In any of their games if they used sectarian language it has not led to a charge.

Again to reiterate there is no argument for anything other than the removal of the discriminatory chanting - we can't argue that it isn't as it has been ruled otherwise.
 
I don't know the complete details of their charges but it was for Pro IRA chanting which is not considered to be discriminatory under section 14.
Our chanting has been considered to fall under that - look at the case with Ajax and their banner for further evidence.

In any of their games if they used sectarian language it has not led to a charge.

Again to reiterate there is no argument for anything other than the removal of the discriminatory chanting - we can't argue that it isn't as it has been ruled otherwise.

so... chanting in support of pro-IRA death squads that murdered British citizens isn't racist or discriminatory but just illicit...

this is clearly what needs to be challenged!
 
So they aren't actually denying that it was them that started it?

To be honest, this statement comes with the same problems that statements from the club, and UEFA to some extent, have had in the past. There is no transparency.

The facts of the matter are:
Rangers were punished in 2011 for the use of "19th Century Terrorist" in the context of the word being used as an insult.
The punishment specifically related to "we hate celtic, 19th Century Terrorist bastards" and UEFAs determination was that this term in this context is "racist".
That was EIGHT years ago.
This has been further reinforced when Ajax received a fine and partial stadium closure (the fine was eventually halved and the closure didn't happen) in 2013.

So it follows OBVIOUSLY that chants and songs containing this word in an "insulting" context are going to be punished and the punishments are pretty clear too.

So the question for the Union Bears is a simple "did you or did you not sing either TBB or Super Rangers, with the banned word included, at the St Josephs match?"

They either did or they didn't. If not then why not deny it?
We've all known this is banned since 2011 and we've all known UEFA are willing to punish it.

The UB statement comes across as "yes we are guilty but the punishment is too harsh".
With the club being responsible for what? Not constantly reminding them not to use those chants in UEFA matches?

There is NO WAY that anybody at Ibrox, let alone a fan group, doesn't know that this stuff is likely to be punished by UEFA.

The Union Bears either used the word "19th Century Terrorist" in their chants at the St Josephs game or they did not.

If they did then they are at least partially responsible for the 3000 empty seats on Thursday.
If not then for sure they are being unfairly treated.

It really just comes down to that.
 
so... chanting in support of pro-IRA death squads that murdered British citizens isn't racist or discriminatory but just illicit...

this is clearly what needs to be challenged!
Your argument really is ludicrous. You appear to be cool with us being charged with racism/sectarianism, but only as long as the filth are too? Is that right? Why are you so obsessed with them?
 
so... chanting in support of pro-IRA death squads that murdered British citizens isn't racist or discriminatory but just illicit...

this is clearly what needs to be challenged!

Which is an opinion you are entitled to hold.

However, to be clear that has zero impact on our censures and subsequent punishments if things don't change - Feeling aggrieved that others are getting away with it doesn't change our situation.
 
Look, at the end of the day, nevermind the Union Bears, the Rangers support as a whole, need to come together and have fans groups meet with the board and discuss how we move forward as a support.

Like it or not if Stewart Robertson had gone to both stands before yesterdays game and asked fans not to sing any UVF songs, he would have been laughed at, thats the reality.

About 75% of our songs yesterday were about the UVF.

The Board are so out of touch with the average Rangers fan who is on the CCCS, travels on a Supporters Bus and sings at an away game its unreal. If the Board had their way there would be 0 songs about N.I., but its never going to go away in reality if you take into account the millions that came over to Scotland from Ireland. Its like trying to re-write Scotland's history.
 
Nobody want TBB tune to go away, I hope.
We need to change the words.
Club
UB
Forum mods
RSC’s

We all have to get together on this and get a new song to an old tune.

Surely this can be done?
 
Which is an opinion you are entitled to hold.

However, to be clear that has zero impact on our censures and subsequent punishments if things don't change - Feeling aggrieved that others are getting away with it doesn't change our situation.

I know it doesn't change the situation but, we should be asking why we are in this situation when others ( Celtic) have chanted racist and sectarian songs and chants and had racist and sectarian banners and have never been. in our situation

we obviously have to accept whats happened but, we can still challenge and ask questions re; the impartiality of FARE and why there are no charges for anti-British racism and sectarian chanting.
 
Reading that statement - there is a lot i agree with.

However first things first - we need to comply with the rules.
 
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Hammer-Time ignored, there's no talking to him, im now convinced since being advised several times it doesn't matter what others done/do we cannot do anything until we sort our own issues that he is spouting the same pish to shit-stir, he is for the watching
 
Nobody want TBB tune to go away, I hope.
We need to change the words.
Club
UB
Forum mods
RSC’s

We all have to get together on this and get a new song to an old tune.

Surely this can be done?
I agree with this.

The club and fans should come together and create a football-only version of the tune which keeps what is one of the best chants in football.

"Hello Hello! We are the Rangers boys."

We should work with UEFA and tell them that this is the way we want to procede in order to eradicate discriminatory chanting.
 
Will Rangers or Club 1872 be releasing a statement between either today or before the match on Thursday night?

I feel like with the amount of attention this whole thing has received surely something has to be said by a club official before it gets even further out of hand.
 
Hammer-Time ignored, there's no talking to him, im now convinced since being advised several times it doesn't matter what others done/do we cannot do anything until we sort our own issues that he is spouting the same pish to shit-stir, he is for the watching


I am for the watching?

Was I for watching when I was the one that started the thread encouraging posters to demand action against the PF for the dumped evidence in the effigies trial? I also encouraged posters to write to their MSPs on the same matter. But, you sit back and don't challenge or ever ask questions or demand equality and parity for our support.

I'm always wary of posters that don't want equality and equal treatment for our supporters.
 
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We cannot measure our own behaviour to that of the filths.

We should know better. The simple fact is there are certain words we cannot use and until we become box-clever as a whole support - then we always run the risk.

The warnings should hopefully take heed. I would hope someone with a mature head (from UB) could sit down with the club and work together to figure out plan. They are the voice of Ibrox and we need them and the club to work together. Maybe invite them to be part of the 150 celebrations - give them some responsibility and really back the UB to be a better UB than they already are.

I understand they feel like they have been made the scapegoat, which in a way is true - but that’s always going to be the case when they will tell anyone who listens that they are the only ones who sing at Ibrox... however we are at probably our most achievable season in a while, we really shouldn’t be burning bridges.

Ibrox without UB is not worth thinking about, I would really love to see them reach out to the club, suck up their pride even if they feel hard done by, show the club they can turn Ibrox into a (all inclusive, everyone anyone etc etc)party and have the club really back them and us as a whole.

Which won’t happen, sadly.
 
I agree with this.

The club and fans should come together and create a football-only version of the tune which keeps what is one of the best chants in football.

"Hello Hello! We are the Rangers boys."

We should work with UEFA and tell them that this is the way we want to procede in order to eradicate discriminatory chanting.

18 pages and some folk are still talking about changing the words. Roll on Thursday! :D
 
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