VAR - Becareful what you wish for

[Blueknows]

I watched the game last night and still had difficulty understanding what happened. However, I think that although the pass was backward the player was in an offside position when it was played and he moved back toward his own goal to collect it. So a very unusual occurrence but correct decision was reached.

I think a lot of the confusion comes from the IFAB Laws of the Game VAR protocol Principles 1 and 12 which says;
1. A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official, with independent access to match footage, who may assist the referee only in the event of a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ in relation to: (I’ve added the bold for emphasis)

a. Goal/no goal

b. Penalty/no penalty

c. Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)

d. Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team).

12. As the VAR will automatically ‘check’ every situation/decision, there is no need for coaches or players to request a ‘review.

So principle 1 says ‘Clear and Obvious Error’ but principle 12 says VAR will automatically check every situation/decision.

Think the proof reading of these by IFAB was somewhat lacking since they appear to be at best contradictory and possiblly saying the exact opposite.

On the notion of team managers having a set number, or worse unlimited, challenges to demand VAR reviews think back to the league cup final toward the end when just about every scum player went down with a mythical injury or cramp to break up play as we pushed for an equaliser. Now imagine them or the like of the sheep having the right to call for spurious VAR reviews to break up play. I think that is best avoided.

It will be interesting to experience VAR come Thursday night against Braga. Perhaps then we will be in a better place to make informed judgements on its merits or demerits.

 

[Paisleybear30]

I think it's painfully obvious that a challenge system would work and improve the suspense/experience.

Using it every time is just boring and the vast majority of football fans feel that way, even if some people who are vocal in their support of it on a message board say otherwise.

I cant see how a challenge system would work. Does a manager challenge and the decision gets automatically overturned? The system might be slow and pedantic but its applying the rules to the letter. If they start allowing degrees of interpretation of the rules then it defeats the whole point

 

[Talktalk]

We wouldn’t be 10 points behind St pats if was up here.

Don’t be fooled mate I’m sure we would have still not got full justice even with var

 

[Paisleybear30]

FIFA need to implement rule changes. Bring back the days where the benefit of the doubt was giving to the striker or there should be clear daylight. This heel, pinky or armpit crap is ruining fan enjoyment.

The problem is that every goal is automatically checked and if they start allowing benefit of the doubt then people are going to be up in arms because one goal was allowed last week that was slightly offside but one was disallowed this week all because different people applied the benefit differently. Var might be too precise in its application but at least its consistent which is what people are crying out for

 

[Sutton_Blows_goats]

We wouldn’t be 10 points behind St pats if was up here.

Wouldn’t we? Paddy and Mick reviewing the calls?

 

[TerrySilverLoyal]

If VAR is brought in up here knowing our luck it'd be Tom boyd that runs it

 

[Buffel87]

I have never understood why people complain that someone who is only millimetres or centimetres offside shouldn’t be called offside. The whole point is that it should be entirely binary. If you are onside by a centimetre then you are onside. If you are offside by a centimetre then you are offside.

One problem currently is with the frame rate of the cameras and speed of some players, we can't actually accurately measure to the millimeter or centimeter if they are offside or not. The margin of error is too big in some cases.

 

[SuffolkGer]

%^*& having a specified number of appeals in a sport where refs make numerous errors a game, may as well not have VAR then. You risk not appealing early on to save it for later and lose the game to that decision, finishing with 1 appeal or you use it, lose it, then lose to a blatant handball or a free kick gets given for a penalty etc, there's no point in having it if it doesn't eliminate all the mistakes and thats where they're going wrong, it should correct mistakes not referee the game for them.

 

[SuffolkGer]

That wolves goal was definitely offside but there’s been a lot more marginal decisions that have went the way of the defending team.

Exactly it's offside and was called it, and let's be honest over the years and years of football how many marginal offsides have been given by real linesmen anyway, both for and against. Not like VAR is the first to do it...

 

[Caldow3]

Nothing wrong with VAR.
England's implementation of VAR needs reconsidered.

It's 2 different issues.
VAR is good for football.

Your opinion.
I've posted a summary of mine

 

[Caldow3]

He wasnt flagged for handball, the ref never whistled he had handled it.
Ring a bell.

Handball????
I never mentioned handball.

 

[Caldow3]

Reads to me like the correct decision was made!
At any other time, as you put it, the wrong decision was getting made.
Therefore, VAR has done its job.
Or, is there a measure of being offside that is acceptable?

It's still being questioned by players a d ex players on how its being used, Wolves' captain was asking the ref questions and didn't appear to be getting any satisfaction on the answer he got.

VAR still has too many unanswered questions. If our League gets it, I hope it's had amendments to allow it to do justice.

 

[MightyGersLand!]

Your opinion.
I've posted a summary of mine

Then 2 posts down from this you use my opinion to validate more shi... I mean, of your opinions..

Strange?

It's still being questioned by players and ex players on how its being used.....

 

[G A K]

Problem then is you're back to subjective decisions. VAR and offside is designed to have a clear on/off decision and as much as it's a bit of a joke at the moment the decisions are correct.

Would you want Clancy in a van having a look at the freeze frame of the LC final and being allowed to use his "judgement"?

I think they need to clean up the offside rule to something more easy to deal with but whatever threshold you use will end up with millimetre decisions as people get close to the limit.

Thing is mate the whole country would be able to see his decisions and he wouldn't be able to cheat as easily as him and his ilk do ATM.
So I'm all for it it can't do us any more harm than what's happening now.

 

[Caldow3]

That wolves goal was definitely offside but there’s been a lot more marginal decisions that have went the way of the defending team.

If the Wolves player was definately offside, how did the linesman 3 or so yards away not see it?
Nobody else saw it either.

This is where the challenge from the manager should be introduced.
The manager challenges the decision, the ref looks at his sideline monitor, if its conclusive, the REF makes the decision. If its inconclusive, the Ref asks VAR to have a look.

In my opinion, this is a workable option.
VAR in its present form doesnt work the way it could.

 

[Vader]

After it was 'forensically examined' by the guys in a building miles away.
The ref is not asking them look at it,he's being told they're looking at it.
It's not the type of football i enjoy watching.

You don't have to use it the way the EPL does.

 

[Caldow3]

Then 2 posts down from this you use my opinion to validate more shi... I mean, of your opinions..

Strange?

Listen mate, I'm doing my best here and trying to keep it civil, it feels like I'm up against my own Support.
I created a thread on an opinion.

For the record, I don't want VAR in its present state. If amendments are implemented that improves it, then lets see how it goes.

 

[Bluenose1979]

If the Wolves player was definately offside, how did the linesman 3 or so yards away not see it?
Nobody else saw it either.

This is where the challenge from the manager should be introduced.
The manager challenges the decision, the ref looks at his sideline monitor, if its conclusive, the REF makes the decision. If its inconclusive, the Ref asks VAR to have a look.

In my opinion, this is a workable option.
VAR in its present form doesnt work the way it could.

Is that your argument? Because it wasn’t initially spotted, he wasn’t offside? He was definitely offside because the video evidence proved it to be the case.

It’s either offside or not according to the laws of the game. Whether it was first spotted doesn’t change it because it’s a factual decision.

 

[Caldow3]

Is that your argument? Because it wasn’t initially spotted, he wasn’t offside? He was definitely offside because the video evidence proved it to be the case.

It’s either offside or not according to the laws of the game. Whether it was first spotted doesn’t change it because it’s a factual decision.

Thats not my argument.

I've posted already.

And who's arguing

 

[Blue Goose]

Nothing wrong with VAR.
England's implementation of VAR needs reconsidered.

It's 2 different issues.
VAR is good for football.

VAR isn't good for football. It has sanatised the game.

 

[Bluenose1979]

Thats not my argument.

I've posted already.

And who's arguing

But your “argument” (look it up ) earlier said because it wasn’t spotted by the linesman.

That’s kind of the point of having VAR. to make sure decisions are made correctly when real-time viewing may cause them to be missed or miscalled.

 

[Caldow3]

But your “argument” (look it up ) earlier said because it wasn’t spotted by the linesman.

That’s kind of the point of having VAR. to make sure decisions are made correctly when real-time viewing may cause them to be missed or miscalled.

And if you continued to read my other posts i listed a few amendments that might improve VAR. They are only opinions

I'm fighting on all fronts here mate

 

[BlueSeaOfIbrox]

"the players foot was offside so VAR decided to disallow the goal for offside"

What's the problem then?

"It was spotted by people in a room miles away, not by the referee and linesmen on the pitch"

Sounds like VAR is working perfectly to me? Considering the whole purpose of it is to help referees with decisions they get wrong, such at this one

 

[Caldow3]

I'm done
Exhausted

 

[Bluenose1979]

 

[EC54]

VAR has undeniably got more decisions right than wrong, it's still way from perfect and needs fine tuned however it is without question that if we had it here the last 2 seasons the outcome of many games would have been different. For that reason I cant wait till it arrives here.

 

[Dave570]

England is by far having the most problems with it compared to other leagues. It seems to work fairly well elsewhere, the issue in England is how its being implemented and the referees themselves rather than the technology itself.

only England has lines on the screen to pick up millimetres but every country has decisions that is dubious. In Holland last week a penalty was not given that not one person outside of VAR could understand.

 

[BlueSeaOfIbrox]

only England has lines on the screen to pick up millimetres but every country has decisions that is dubious. In Holland last week a penalty was not given that not one person outside of VAR could understand.

Got a link to that?

 

[krs-gers]

I’d take a bit of waiting around to see if a goal will stand and less excitement if it meant us currently being holders of the league cup and there being no where near as big a gap in the league between us and them. Both would be the case if we had VAR up here.

 

[MightyGersLand!]

Listen mate, I'm doing my best here and trying to keep it civil, it feels like I'm up against my own Support.
I created a thread on an opinion.

For the record, I don't want VAR in its present state. If amendments are implemented that improves it, then lets see how it goes.

You've been told various times.
How it's implemented in England isn't its current state.

It's one country out of 20 making an arse of it.

When that's been pointed out you've ignored it.
Doubled down.
Contradicted yourself.
Then took the huff.

 

[Slim]

If it was marginally offside then it's still offside and the correct decision. I have no objection to that.

 

[Slim]

I can't be bothered typing my daily VAR response, but here goes:

3 decrepit, 19th Century Terrorist, ex-refs, in a caravan behind the stand with a couple of screens, a computer and an algorithm to shaft Rangers.

I think the points difference would be significantly greater than 10.

I disagree

 

[Slim]

I can't be bothered typing my daily VAR response, but here goes:

3 decrepit, 19th Century Terrorist, ex-refs, in a caravan behind the stand with a couple of screens, a computer and an algorithm to shaft Rangers.

I think the points difference would be significantly greater than 10.

Take the handball goal during the OF game or the 1st Killie goal on wed for example. There's no way they can review that and still give the goals. Currently they can simply say they never seen it.

 

[Deleted member 125]

Take the handball goal during the OF game or the 1st Killie goal on wed for example. There's no way they can review that and still give the goals. Currently they can simply say they never seen it.

‘The ref can choose to say he‘s happy and not go to VAR. Particularly if those whispering in his earpiece are partial.

 

[Bri RTID]

Sort of fear if VAR comes to Scotland
Added time at end of every game would rise significantly

 

[tazzabear]

Handball????
I never mentioned handball.

No, you didn’t.
I thought you’d have deduced what I had done .
I used your exact post but changed the situation.
You used an offside example, I used a handball example.

 

[tazzabear]

‘The ref can choose to say he‘s happy and not go to VAR. Particularly if those whispering in his earpiece are partial.

Yes but then, it’s the referee who is exposed here, more than now.

 

[Caldow3]

No, you didn’t.
I thought you’d have deduced what I had done .
I used your exact post but changed the situation.
You used an offside example, I used a handball example.

Great post mate

 

[Caldow3]

You've been told various times.
How it's implemented in England isn't its current state.

It's one country out of 20 making an arse of it.

When that's been pointed out you've ignored it.
Doubled down.
Contradicted yourself.
Then took the huff.

Lol i didn't take the huff. I put my point across as best I could.
How can a discussion on this site go so badly wrong.
My opinion disagrees with yours.....hang him!!! How dare he?

Ffs mate, If VAR works then fine. It just needs amendments IMO ofcourse

 

[bazzasboots]

It’s ridiculous rulings like the VAR one

That pesky var getting things right again.

last night though (from a corner) are ruining the game down there

 

[StirlingGer]

So an offside goal got chopped off for being offside.

I’ll take it.

Have you seen the goal?

 

[Coda]

No but I’ve seen many like it this season Unless it was wrong?
Cup final for instance.

Offside is offside.

It’s not a black and white case. The technology is nowhere near good enough, the margin for error is huge (I think it’s around 35cm). That’s why they’re talking about a 10cm leeway for next season, as in all likelihood, a lot of the goals called offside this season were probably onside.

The game is played at too fast a pace to be ruling out goals for bawhair decisions. Not to mention, it’s not the spirit in which the law was intended.

 

[Burgh Loyal]

VAR would still be better than depending on Scottish officials to make the correct call.

Who do ye think will be sitting in the van making var decisions?

 

[BoyInRoyalBlue]

If we had VAR.

Celtic wouldn't have got their last 2 goals vs us, including a cup final winning goal.
We would have got a penalty in the last 10 mins at Pittodrie when drawing 1-1.
We wouldn't have lost the first (and most important) goal on Wednesday.
Challenges like Cosgroves on Davis would result in a red card.

We fucking need VAR up here to level out the referees who are down right cowards.

 

[isawthat]

No but I’ve seen many like it this season Unless it was wrong?
Cup final for instance.

Offside is offside.

his heel was offside, the rest of his body was onside. Ridiculous decision, the game is dead if that’s the way it’s allowed to go.

 

[Vince]

I can't be bothered typing my daily VAR response, but here goes:

3 decrepit, 19th Century Terrorist, ex-refs, in a caravan behind the stand with a couple of screens, a computer and an algorithm to shaft Rangers.

I think the points difference would be significantly greater than 10.

Difference is their decision is often displayed for others to see. It would take the accountability up a notch. There is now way they could in any way justify the cup final goal for example.

 

[defender]

So an offside goal got chopped off for being offside.

I’ll take it.

Will you be appointing the review team on the monitors or will it be pig eyed Pete's 'associates' ?

 

[Slim]

‘The ref can choose to say he‘s happy and not go to VAR. Particularly if those whispering in his earpiece are partial.

I believe most of our refs are trying to get the decisions right but are fearful of the backlash that comes when it goes against Celtic. So most will be glad to have the opportunity to check VAR and we would benefit as a result.n

 

[defender]

Difference is their decision is often displayed for others to see. It would take the accountability up a notch. There is now way they could in any way justify the cup final goal for example.

They would probably not call it for review

 

[Route 55]

Needed badly refs are shocking or are they cheats