VAR offsides. How tight is this?

I'd just scrap the offside rule. Always hated it.

I'm guessing the actual rule states if any part of the attackers body is off, then its offside?

Shite rule imo
 
Because it makes on-field refs and assistants pointless.

How does it? The ref still has the final call on every decision, he just has more information available to him now.

VAR will say 'I think that goal was offside', the ref will ask 'how confident are you?' and based on their response, the ref will either review themselves or take their word for it.
 
One of my biggest gripes with VAR - and I am, in general, in favour - is that there doesn't seem to be a 'standard' across the globe. Each Association - and indeed even FIFA and UEFA - seem to have implemented their own version of VAR and how it will be applied. We've seen different implementations in place for the Men's World Cup and then for the Women's World Cup for example. No doubt it will be different again at the Euros next Summer. Its crazy.
In my opinion, it should only be used when a ref or assistant has made a decision which has led to a goal, a penalty or a sending off which is wrong.

Otherwise, there's no need for them to be on the park.
 
It's embarrassing.

How's that a clear and obvious error?

Agree I ‘support’ neither side probably given who the Leicester manager is I’d plump for Spurs but these types of decisions are just stupid like the Man City ones against Spurs. I never envisaged this being a consequence of VAR. Needs looked at again.
 
Again, it's not the purpose VAR was originally intended for.

'Intended' by whom mate? See my later post. There's different standards across different Associations and even different implementation between UEFA and FIFA - and even between tournaments run by the same body. Its not a 'fixed' thing, it has been, and still is, being developed.

They need to move to an agreed implementation across all Associations that use it and across FIFA and UEFA as soon as possible.

To get back to the original point - the correct decision, however tight, was made. I'd counter by saying THAT was the intended purpose - above all else - when VAR was introduced, i.e. getting more decisions correct.
 
I had a beautiful build a bet which included Leciester or the draw so wasnt moaning but it is crazy how far they are taking it, if its close it should be benefit to the striker. This is why it will be bad for Rangers because it allows someone to look at replay and find any excuse to chop goals off.

I would guess you are gonna see the spurs manager going mental, 2nd goal was finishing the game 3 points for the visitors.

edit- one other point the finish by kane was terrific starting to think he might be up there with the very best in the world.
 
Because it makes on-field refs and assistants pointless.
It doesnt at all. Im in the camp generally opposed to VAR but its supposedly been brought in to reach the correct decision more often so if youre offside then youre offside.

The vast majority of decisions dont require VAR either.
 
What annoys me most about this kind of hairline decision is that there is zero advantage which can be gained by the attacker in such a situation.

Its not in the spirit of the game, or even the original offside rule
 
Two EPL games this week and already talking points are the VAR. It's taking over from the actual sport.

Bournemouth penalty denied last night, and now that inconclusive still.
 
Apparently the cameras they use have a 5mm margin of error, I'd say the offside was too close to call even for VAR
 
'Intended' by whom mate? See my later post. There's different standards across different Associations and even different implementation between UEFA and FIFA - and even between tournaments run by the same body. Its not a 'fixed' thing, it has been, and still is, being developed.

They need to move to an agreed implementation across all Associations that use it and across FIFA and UEFA as soon as possible.

To get back to the original point - the correct decision, however tight, was made. I'd counter by saying THAT was the intended purpose - above all else - when VAR was introduced, i.e. getting more decisions correct.
When Serie A first implemented it, I quite liked it. It corrected obvious errors the ref or assistants made.

They used it well, but it's now been taken too far where it can overturn or give decisions that are debatable or are so close and not obvious.

I agree that all competitions should have the same rules regarding it.
 
When Serie A first implemented it, I quite liked it. It corrected obvious errors the ref or assistants made.

They used it well, but it's now been taken too far where it can overturn or give decisions that are debatable or are so close and not obvious.

I agree that all federations and competitions should have the same rules regarding it.

At least we agreed on something mate.;)

I'd still argue that offside is factual, just like a ball being over the line or not. It doesn't matter if its 'close' or 'obvious' it's either in or out, on or off. So long as the same standards are being applied to every such decision in the same competition then its 'fair'.
 
VAR was meant to do away with controversial decisions as well :)

The primary purpose of VAR was to ensure more 'correct' decisions. That's the top and bottom of it. Its offside - albeit by very small margins - and, therefore, the correct decision.
 
So if VAR is accurate enough to be used in offside decisions dealing in mm's how come they can't use it to have penalties retaken when the goalkeeper is clearly yards off their line ?
 
The primary purpose of VAR was to ensure more 'correct' decisions. That's the top and bottom of it. Its offside - albeit by very small margins - and, therefore, the correct decision.

I was fully behind VAR but the implementation is not what I expected. Spending 3 minutes deciding if Son’s armpit is 1mm ahead of Evans quad was not what I imagined it would be used for, Also did they check when the ball actually left the football of the player playing they ball ? I just cannot see how the point where the ball is struck by the player making the forward pass can be identified to the accuracy of the eventual offside. Because Son might not have been offside then
 
Again, it's not the purpose VAR was originally intended for.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

It's what it's used for now. People clinging to "clear and obvious error" with regards to every VAR point haven't bothered to get up to speed with the actual facts of the matter now and in all honesty shouldn't be entered into discussion with.
 
As an aside I'd imagine one day there will be 'technology' where older games can be looked at 'just for fun' and it will be found that cup winners and league champions of the past should never have won them because of millimetre offside goals.
That will be really funny. :D
 
What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

It's what it's used for now. People clinging to "clear and obvious error" with regards to every VAR point haven't bothered to get up to speed with the actual facts of the matter now and in all honesty shouldn't be entered into discussion with.


Apparently these posters are in the Stadiums and it does mention clear and obvious error, To be clear VAR isn’t the problem it’s how it is used. Baffling they would try and draw these minute distinctions on offside when they don’t really have the tech to do it
 
I was fully behind VAR but the implementation is not what I expected. Spending 3 minutes deciding if Son’s armpit is 1mm ahead of Evans quad was not what I imagined it would be used for, Also did they check when the ball actually left the football of the player playing they ball ? I just cannot see how the point where the ball is struck by the player making the forward pass can be identified to the accuracy of the eventual offside. Because Son might not have been offside then

Which is why I said in an earlier post:

So long as the same standards are being applied to every such decision in the same competition then its 'fair'.

Without the EPL giving us the infinitesimal detail of how the technology goes about reaching the decision nobody can answer your questions. In truth you could ask the same questions of how a referee makes the same decision - but with the technology in place surely even a cynic can see that there is more chance of getting the decision correct. In the case of offside, specifically - there's a whole different debate to be had on other VAR decisions.
 
What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

It's what it's used for now. People clinging to "clear and obvious error" with regards to every VAR point haven't bothered to get up to speed with the actual facts of the matter now and in all honesty shouldn't be entered into discussion with.
Because I believe that's what it should be used for.

Stop being a sanctimonious fud.
 
Just to clarify, for those labouring on the 'clear and obvious error' point. That is NOT the extent of how the EPL have implemented it. It goes beyond that to include the phrase 'serious missed incident'. This is from the EPLs own FAQ on the introduction of VAR:

What incidents does the VAR check?

VAR will be used only for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.

Will it be used for all offside decisions?

No, only for one of the four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.


 
The attackers just don't get the benefit of doubt with VAR. Having to go that precise to rule out a decision is making football shit.

I never saw the game but how long did they take to rule out that goal?
 
So if VAR is accurate enough to be used in offside decisions dealing in mm's how come they can't use it to have penalties retaken when the goalkeeper is clearly yards off their line ?

Because the EPL decided not to use it for goalkeeper encroachment at penalty kicks and have left that to the on field refs.

 
I thought it was meant to help the ref,not make decisions for him,football's being fucked over by people who don't understand the game or its passion.
 
Its offside. Its a factual decision rather than a matter of opinion. Should we disallow goals because the ball is only 2mm over the line because its 'too tight to call'. In actual fact, offside and goal-line technology are the two areas where technology really come into play because there's no 'grey' areas of personal opinion - its a goal or not, its offside or not.

Finally someone who’s not mental!

To call it either way is difficult but it’s a matter of fact.
 
The "clear and obvious" wording doesn't make sense and I don't think it's even part of the rule any more. If it was clear and obvious the ref would get the decision right in the first place.

VAR was designed to reach the right decision and that's what it's done, as fractional as it might be it's still offside.

So why did it take 3 minutes to figure it out?
 
No it’s not, there is still a judgement of where to put the cursor

From the EPLs FAQ on the introduction of VAR.

When the VAR is involved in offside decisions, they will be making a factual call based on evidence from fully calibrated offside lines.
 
From the EPLs FAQ on the introduction of VAR.

When the VAR is involved in offside decisions, they will be making a factual call based on evidence from fully calibrated offside lines.

Except they equipment they are using isn't accurate enough to make decisions as close as the one today

Camera was either 24fps or 30fps so you'd need a camera going 1200 fps to accurately capture what happened, If they want to be sterile and scientific about things
 
Could a valid argument be made to do away with the offside rule altogether?
Some of the recent VAR decisions that ruled out 'goals' deemed to be offside by mere millimeters are farcical IMO.
 
For me Var is being wrongly implemented. If you are going to go through every goal in slow motion with a microscope, then you do the same with penalties and red cards. Apparently penalties are viewed in real time and the people on screen duty don't say " thats a penalty" if the referee doesn't give it ,because the bar for overturning a referees view of the incident is high. Red card reviews are also a joke. Even thirty years ago when I played, going over the ball was considered a serious offence but Tielemans got away with that after a review the other week and they can't even say a foul isn't bad enough for a red, but is a yellow, which I find stupid.
 

Any right minded person looking at that gives that as a good goal.

Where is the supposed advantage that the attacking player has enjoyed with that additional centimetre. ?

It’s a ridiculous use of VAR when it gets to those minuscule distances.
 
Howe
Offside is a factual decision, nothing to do with being a clear and obvious error.
However the lines they project across the pitch aren't accurate. They haven't factored in the foreshortening, which makes a lot of seemingly obviously decisions completely wrong. If they're going to insist on using this for offsides, the least they can do is take the arms out of the equation
 
Howe
However the lines they project across the pitch aren't accurate. They haven't factored in the foreshortening, which makes a lot of seemingly obviously decisions completely wrong. If they're going to insist on using this for offsides, the least they can do is take the arms out of the equation

But your arms count for offside if its an onfield referee making the decision rather than a VAR. Are you suggesting we have different rules for 'normal' refereeing and VAR?

Or do you just want arms taken out the offside equation altogether - which makes it a general rule change rather than VAR specific which is what the discussion is about?
 
Howe
However the lines they project across the pitch aren't accurate. They haven't factored in the foreshortening, which makes a lot of seemingly obviously decisions completely wrong. If they're going to insist on using this for offsides, the least they can do is take the arms out of the equation
They dont use those lines to make the decision.
 
Its offside. Its a factual decision rather than a matter of opinion. Should we disallow goals because the ball is only 2mm over the line because its 'too tight to call'. In actual fact, offside and goal-line technology are the two areas where technology really come into play because there's no 'grey' areas of personal opinion - its a goal or not, its offside or not.

How do they know the exact moment the pass was made though? I doubt they have the technology for boot to ball contact. If you are possibly 1mm off-side then it would be crucial to know the exact moment of the pass being released down to a fraction of a second - I doubt they have that ability so to chalk that goal off is insane.
 
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