Victims lawyer urges Celtic to set millions aside

3cheers.Rfc

Well-Known Member
First of all I would like to applaud Dornan for showing compassion towards the victims.

But can't help think he has an end game here, mabye help get the victims get a pay out and he comes out smelling of roses as he tells us Celtic have done the right thing and tries to move the whole thing along as if that's it all over and done with.

Or he can really push the boat out and push for a full inquiry of what went on and who knew?
 
Haven't changed my stance at all.

I still don't believe your pish about The Record pulling stories, NDA's and affidavit's if that's what you're referring to.
110% the Record and Scottish Sun pulled stories that were hours away from being published that proved the seperate entity nonsense was indeed nonsense. You are out or order and wrong in saying what he mewntioned before was pish. Wait and see.

PS I don't know the other poster
 
110% the Record and Scottish Sun pulled stories that were hours away from being published that proved the seperate entity nonsense was indeed nonsense. You are out or order and wrong in saying what he mewntioned before was pish. Wait and see.

PS I don't know the other poster
You can believe who and whatever you want.

Like him, I think you're talking through a hole in your arse.
 
First of all I would like to applaud Dornan for showing compassion towards the victims.

But can't help think he has an end game here, mabye help get the victims get a pay out and he comes out smelling of roses as he tells us Celtic have done the right thing and tries to move the whole thing along as if that's it all over and done with.

Or he can really push the boat out and push for a full inquiry of what went on and who knew?
The first thing .He should have said if He wasn't aware already is.
My son trained here .
Tell Me how long this has been going on for ?
Then He should have went all out to prosecute the predators .
 

Humbug

Well-Known Member
The first thing .He should have said if He wasn't aware already is.
My son trained here .
Tell Me how long this has been going on for ?
Then He should have went all out to prosecute the predators .
Dornan is already aware of how long this has been going, he has been told numerous times. There is something in the wind with this rhat bastard , nothing surer.
 

Its-Sebo

Well-Known Member
People on here still saying the tarriers will walk away from this.
Wake to fuk Up they are trueley fuked
Would you honestly be surprised, given the country we live in, if they were just given a slap on the wrist?

They want to wrangle their way out of this and there are plenty in the press or positions of power who’ll be willing to help.
 
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I actually do work in the law and you seem to be asking in good faith, so I'll have a bash:
Intro
Might have more success here , would anybody with knowledge on the subject be able to fill me in on the validity of all this ‘tick tock court case is coming’ talk , what’s true and what’s bullshit and how this could affect the club ?​
I'll assume you know the outlines of the Celtic Boys Club child abuse scandal: In short, a paedophile ring at a Celtic-affiliated youth club abused children for decades. Some Celtic FC staff probably knew or ought to have known that this was happening.
Personal Injuries Claims
tick tock court case is coming’ talk​
Patrick McGuire, a solicitor with Thompsons, is acting for at least 20 men who allege that they were abused by staff at Celtic Boys Club.
The Scottish Parliament recently passed the Limitation (Childhood Abuse) (Scotland) Act 2017, which abolished the Scottish law of limitation for childhood abuse cases. Previously, survivors of childhood abuse had to launch their cases within 3 years of turning 18. Now, however, anybody abused after 26 September 1964 may sue for personal injury. This is important, because the "current" Celtic Boys Club scandal is essentially the same scandal as was revealed in the 1990s when Torbett was prosecuted for the first time - but this time, as attitudes towards male survivors of sexual abuse change, more survivors have had the courage to come forward. Parliament's move has also opened up - for the first time - the prospect of these men receiving just compensation for what they were subjected to.
So far as I know, legal proceedings haven't actually begun yet - even if they do, cases of childhood abuse are generally heard confidentially. Thompsons are most likely waiting until the police investigation is over. There may be other PI firms involved, like Digby Brown or Slater Gordon, but Thompsons have been the most visible.
Celtic and Survivors' Positions
Celtic's position is outlined in their infamous statement of 7th November last year:
Although Celtic Football Club is an entirely separate organisation, we have always taken these allegations extremely seriously because of our historic contacts with Celtic Boys’ Club. All investigations by the police and other inquiries were given our full support. (emphasis mine)​
Generally speaking, organisations cannot be sued for the actions of other organisations. Celtic FC is - legally - correct to say that Celtic Boys Club was never part of Celtic FC. It was a private youth football club given permission to use the Celtic name and crest by Kevin Kelly.
However, Celtic Boys Club had close links with Celtic FC - they shared the Barrowfield training ground, Celtic highheidyins attended CBC functions, Celtic directors gave money to CBC directors, it was a funnel club for the Celtic first team, and - allegedly - Celtic lawyers became involved when the abuse allegations first came to light and Jock Stein removed Torbett from CBC upon hearing rumours of his crimes (although the Kellys let him back in after Stein's death). The survivors state that Celtic FC effectively controlled the Boys Club and that Celtic FC staff a) knew (or ought to have known) what was happening b) could have done something to stop it, and c) didn't do so.
Suing Celtic
The law says that companies are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their employees in the course of their employment. What that means is that, where an employee of a company causes injury, the injured person can sue the company, the employee, or both. So, if you get run down by a DHL van, rather than being limited to suing the driver (who won't have enough assets to cover the cost of your injuries) you can instead sue DHL (who will).
what’s true and what’s bullshit​
Personally, I don't want to make sweeping proclamations before everything is tested in a court case, and most of the websites talking about this are pretty dubious-looking Rangers fansites (whose motives I don't trust). I also just don't like reading about child abuse. We know, of course, that ex-CBC staff have been convicted of various offences (if not the gory details, which are rightly kept private). We know as well that Hugh Birt testified Jock Stein removed Torbett from CBC but didn't inform the police. We also know that Kevin Kelly was in business with Torbett during the period he was abusing, but Kelly maintains he didn't know.
What the survivors need to prove, essentially, is this:-
A) They were abused at Celtic Boys Club.​
B) Staff working for Celtic FC either abused them or knew it was taking place.​
C) Those Celtic staff did not tell anyone -or-​
D) Those Celtic staff did tell someone higher up at Celtic.​
E) Having become aware that children were being abused at CBC, Celtic -or- their staff took no action (or at least took no action that was effective.)​
F) If Celtic had taken action, their abuse could have been stopped.​
G) Their abuse continued after Celtic staff knew it was occurring and should have taken action to stop it.​
The civil standard of proof is "more likely than not".
Financial Consequences for Celtic
how this could affect the club ?​
It depends, but Celtic aren't about to get liquidated over this. There is no "tick-tock".
Unlike in the United States, Scots law does not have punitive damages. In other words, damages in Scotland are designed to compensate the victim, not to punish the wrongdoer. So the big seven/eight figure damages awards you read about in American cases like this one (Sandusky's victims received over $100m) aren't going to happen. One benchmark would be the recent case of Ian Samson, a beast who abused children at a Kirk home in Edinburgh. The Kirk agreed to pay £500,000 to one girl who was made pregnant by him and £250,000 each to her siblings. However, that was a private settlement between the Kirk and the victims - courts would likely have been less generous. The family of a man who died of mesothelioma recently received £340,000. Assuming all 20 of Thompsons' clients were to be awarded £500,000 (which they won't be) and their legal fees, Celtic would be looking at a payout in the £12.5m figure. Which would hurt, but not sink it - Celtic could have paid that entire sum last year and still make a pretax profit of £4.8m.
In reality, of course, not all the victims of the CBC paedophiles will have been as horrifically abused as Mr Samson's victims were, and Celtic may well win if this is taken to court. So the actual financial effect on Celtic will be much lower and may be as little as the cost of fighting the court cases, which I would imagine would come to around £1.5m at most.
All of this, of course, assumes that Celtic aren't insured for these claims - I suspect that they are, and that their insurers are the ones who have decided not to accept liability If Celtic are insured, then the only direct cost to them will be higher premiums going forward.
What happens next?
The criminal cases against ex-CBC staff will end. Then Thompsons will raise their claims.
I predict one of two things happens then:
  • Celtic admit liability and enter negotiations to compensate the survivors.
  • Celtic deny liability and force Thompsons to take it to court.
Once this goes to court, Celtic will say that Thompsons' pleadings are irrelevant because Celtic was not Celtic Boys Club. Thompsons will ask for a debate on that point. Thompsons will get their debate. At the debate, Celtic will argue that the case should be tossed. Thompsons will argue that the court should fix a proof (i.e, a hearing with evidence) on the issue of Celtic's connection with CBC only. At the proof, Thompsons will present evidence that Celtic controlled Celtic Boys Club. Celtic will present evidence it did not. The court will decide one way or another. If Thompsons wins, Celtic will negotiate with them to settle the cases. If Celtic wins, the action will be dismissed.
Either way, a giant humiliating trial is the last thing either Thompsons or Celtic want.
--
Happy to answer questions on the above.
 

stuart01x

Well-Known Member
A few days of crocodile tears from Dornan, then he demands a full scale inquiry into abuse at all clubs. The blame is then shared equally

Nothing surer
I welcome this. I hope it goes further than just football clubs; all sporting and religious institutions (which were initially exempt). All perpetrators and facilitators should be held accountable for their crimes.
 
Dornan is already aware of how long this has been going, he has been told numerous times. There is something in the wind with this rhat bastard , nothing surer.
The first reaction to any Scandal public or personal is always
What .
When .
Who .
How .
The silence to Me answers those three questions .
The answers were already known.
There have been deaths caused and peoples lives ruined .Families left in turmoil.
Yet No one in power here in Scotland has asked any questions .
Their collective silence speaks volumes
 

Mexi

Well-Known Member
I welcome this. I hope it goes further than just football clubs; all sporting and religious institutions (which were initially exempt). All perpetrators and facilitators should be held accountable for their crimes.
Then the usual suspects call it society's problem, and they escape their responsibilities
 

muttley

Well-Known Member
I actually do work in the law and you seem to be asking in good faith, so I'll have a bash:
Intro
Might have more success here , would anybody with knowledge on the subject be able to fill me in on the validity of all this ‘tick tock court case is coming’ talk , what’s true and what’s bullshit and how this could affect the club ?​
I'll assume you know the outlines of the Celtic Boys Club child abuse scandal: In short, a paedophile ring at a Celtic-affiliated youth club abused children for decades. Some Celtic FC staff probably knew or ought to have known that this was happening.
Personal Injuries Claims
tick tock court case is coming’ talk​
Patrick McGuire, a solicitor with Thompsons, is acting for at least 20 men who allege that they were abused by staff at Celtic Boys Club.
The Scottish Parliament recently passed the Limitation (Childhood Abuse) (Scotland) Act 2017, which abolished the Scottish law of limitation for childhood abuse cases. Previously, survivors of childhood abuse had to launch their cases within 3 years of turning 18. Now, however, anybody abused after 26 September 1964 may sue for personal injury. This is important, because the "current" Celtic Boys Club scandal is essentially the same scandal as was revealed in the 1990s when Torbett was prosecuted for the first time - but this time, as attitudes towards male survivors of sexual abuse change, more survivors have had the courage to come forward. Parliament's move has also opened up - for the first time - the prospect of these men receiving just compensation for what they were subjected to.
So far as I know, legal proceedings haven't actually begun yet - even if they do, cases of childhood abuse are generally heard confidentially. Thompsons are most likely waiting until the police investigation is over. There may be other PI firms involved, like Digby Brown or Slater Gordon, but Thompsons have been the most visible.
Celtic and Survivors' Positions
Celtic's position is outlined in their infamous statement of 7th November last year:
Although Celtic Football Club is an entirely separate organisation, we have always taken these allegations extremely seriously because of our historic contacts with Celtic Boys’ Club. All investigations by the police and other inquiries were given our full support. (emphasis mine)​
Generally speaking, organisations cannot be sued for the actions of other organisations. Celtic FC is - legally - correct to say that Celtic Boys Club was never part of Celtic FC. It was a private youth football club given permission to use the Celtic name and crest by Kevin Kelly.
However, Celtic Boys Club had close links with Celtic FC - they shared the Barrowfield training ground, Celtic highheidyins attended CBC functions, Celtic directors gave money to CBC directors, it was a funnel club for the Celtic first team, and - allegedly - Celtic lawyers became involved when the abuse allegations first came to light and Jock Stein removed Torbett from CBC upon hearing rumours of his crimes (although the Kellys let him back in after Stein's death). The survivors state that Celtic FC effectively controlled the Boys Club and that Celtic FC staff a) knew (or ought to have known) what was happening b) could have done something to stop it, and c) didn't do so.
Suing Celtic
The law says that companies are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their employees in the course of their employment. What that means is that, where an employee of a company causes injury, the injured person can sue the company, the employee, or both. So, if you get run down by a DHL van, rather than being limited to suing the driver (who won't have enough assets to cover the cost of your injuries) you can instead sue DHL (who will).
what’s true and what’s bullshit​
Personally, I don't want to make sweeping proclamations before everything is tested in a court case, and most of the websites talking about this are pretty dubious-looking Rangers fansites (whose motives I don't trust). I also just don't like reading about child abuse. We know, of course, that ex-CBC staff have been convicted of various offences (if not the gory details, which are rightly kept private). We know as well that Hugh Birt testified Jock Stein removed Torbett from CBC but didn't inform the police. We also know that Kevin Kelly was in business with Torbett during the period he was abusing, but Kelly maintains he didn't know.
What the survivors need to prove, essentially, is this:-
A) They were abused at Celtic Boys Club.​
B) Staff working for Celtic FC either abused them or knew it was taking place.​
C) Those Celtic staff did not tell anyone -or-​
D) Those Celtic staff did tell someone higher up at Celtic.​
E) Having become aware that children were being abused at CBC, Celtic -or- their staff took no action (or at least took no action that was effective.)​
F) If Celtic had taken action, their abuse could have been stopped.​
G) Their abuse continued after Celtic staff knew it was occurring and should have taken action to stop it.​
The civil standard of proof is "more likely than not".
Financial Consequences for Celtic
how this could affect the club ?​
It depends, but Celtic aren't about to get liquidated over this. There is no "tick-tock".
Unlike in the United States, Scots law does not have punitive damages. In other words, damages in Scotland are designed to compensate the victim, not to punish the wrongdoer. So the big seven/eight figure damages awards you read about in American cases like this one (Sandusky's victims received over $100m) aren't going to happen. One benchmark would be the recent case of Ian Samson, a beast who abused children at a Kirk home in Edinburgh. The Kirk agreed to pay £500,000 to one girl who was made pregnant by him and £250,000 each to her siblings. However, that was a private settlement between the Kirk and the victims - courts would likely have been less generous. The family of a man who died of mesothelioma recently received £340,000. Assuming all 20 of Thompsons' clients were to be awarded £500,000 (which they won't be) and their legal fees, Celtic would be looking at a payout in the £12.5m figure. Which would hurt, but not sink it - Celtic could have paid that entire sum last year and still make a pretax profit of £4.8m.
In reality, of course, not all the victims of the CBC paedophiles will have been as horrifically abused as Mr Samson's victims were, and Celtic may well win if this is taken to court. So the actual financial effect on Celtic will be much lower and may be as little as the cost of fighting the court cases, which I would imagine would come to around £1.5m at most.
All of this, of course, assumes that Celtic aren't insured for these claims - I suspect that they are, and that their insurers are the ones who have decided not to accept liability If Celtic are insured, then the only direct cost to them will be higher premiums going forward.
What happens next?
The criminal cases against ex-CBC staff will end. Then Thompsons will raise their claims.
I predict one of two things happens then:
  • Celtic admit liability and enter negotiations to compensate the survivors.
  • Celtic deny liability and force Thompsons to take it to court.
Once this goes to court, Celtic will say that Thompsons' pleadings are irrelevant because Celtic was not Celtic Boys Club. Thompsons will ask for a debate on that point. Thompsons will get their debate. At the debate, Celtic will argue that the case should be tossed. Thompsons will argue that the court should fix a proof (i.e, a hearing with evidence) on the issue of Celtic's connection with CBC only. At the proof, Thompsons will present evidence that Celtic controlled Celtic Boys Club. Celtic will present evidence it did not. The court will decide one way or another. If Thompsons wins, Celtic will negotiate with them to settle the cases. If Celtic wins, the action will be dismissed.
Either way, a giant humiliating trial is the last thing either Thompsons or Celtic want.
--
Happy to answer questions on the above.

If one of the CBC convicts, Kairney, was indeed paid a weekly wage by Celtic, as has been quoted elsewhere, then that must prove some variance of responsibility ?
 
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Would you honestly be surprised, given the county we live in, if they were just given a slap on the wrist?

They want to wrangle their way out of this and there are plenty in the press or positions of power who’ll be willing to help.
Nonsense their up to their necks in shit.
And it's only get worse when the documentarys are aired and the court compo kicks off.
Dorrans U turn says it all their fuked
 
Dornan is up to something. Why suddenly the change in approach?
Hes a puppet working on a placebo punishment mate, nothing surer. The findings will be something along the lines of "None of the people involved are now at Celtic, Celtic have done everything they can to make things right, Celtic have donated a small amount of cash to a charity now this all goes away"
 

DSW

Well-Known Member
There is absolutely NO chance that Dornan is in this to expose the truth.

He has said himself comp should be a good will gesture not an acceptance of blame.

These cunts are going to get away with this and totally control the narrative just in time for everyone to die off.
 

Humbug

Well-Known Member
The first reaction to any Scandal public or personal is always
What .
When .
Who .
How .
The silence to Me answers those three questions .
The answers were already known.
There have been deaths caused and peoples lives ruined .Families left in turmoil.
Yet No one in power here in Scotland has asked any questions .
Their collective silence speaks volumes
Charlie, the audio interview with Dornan further up will make him a marked man by the bheasts, also I can't see him going off message without consulting the hierarchy of the party. There is something big coming if they are willing to do this.
 
James Dornan, call me taken aback.

I wonder what he has seen/knows that has caused him to break from the party line.

Any dispassionate viewer can see what Celtic did from the 70s-90s, if he has a boy who could have been preyed upon because the Celtic directors facilitated and financed abusers, he must be livid.
Daly is a pro and will hang Celtic out to dry.

He's told Dornan what he has hence the backtracking.
 

nemessis

Well-Known Member
What about the supposed hush letters surely they would be an admission of guilt and conclusive of Celti@ F C's knowledge of the molestation, and subsequent non action allowing the assaults to continue.
 
"Celtic boys club had no connection with celtic fc"

Same name
same strips
first dibs on all their players
used the same training ground and stadium
results featured in the sellic view

They just cant resist telling bare faced lies no matter the facts presented to them.
Don’t forget the hundreds of indecent pictures of children being stored within Parkhead by a club photographer.
 

Its-Sebo

Well-Known Member
Nonsense their up to their necks in shit.
And it's only get worse when the documentarys are aired and the court compo kicks off.
Dorrans U turn says it all their fuked
You never answered the question.

I don’t think anybody is disputing that they’re up to their necks in it, we’ve all been talking about it for years, but some are apprehensive cause the cünts get away with everything and I totally understand it.

The coverage from all media for this rampant child abuse is a world away from the coverage we got for using a commonly used loophole to pay less tax.
 

Corkie

Well-Known Member
Charlie, the audio interview with Dornan further up will make him a marked man by the bheasts, also I can't see him going off message without consulting the hierarchy of the party. There is something big coming if they are willing to do this.
I wonder if Celtic ,had a Court order banning the media from using their name,have they been found out ?
 

Blue Steel

Well-Known Member
The reputational damage is HUGE!

The name of Celtic Football Club will always be associated with the biggest stigma of them all, PAEDOPHILIA!
They can’t put a price on that ,
Dornan says he wants compensation but no blame attached to Celtic. Don’t think anything has changed. Just sees compo as s way to end the full thing
Far to slippery for that the c,unts .
 
If one of the CBC convicts, Kairney, was indeed paid a weekly wage by Celtic, as has been quoted elsewhere, then that must prove some variance of responsibility ?
the bit that struck me is the compo payout in Scotland compared to America.

Now its making sense why the lawyer wants the compo now rather than court, some on here thought it was because the lawyer was a Tim and wanted to take the easy road.

if this goes to court then Celtic might actually pay LESS in compo than a private settlement and then the argument start trying to prove that Celtic and the boys club were linked.
 

RFC417

Well-Known Member
Stein

legend has him physically booting Torbett out of Parkhead for his crimes

- no phone call to the cops

then Daly had the photo posing with him after said "booting out"
I know, that is well known, oft discussed and what I meant by notables in this sordid affair. But Brady & Macari were both presented with the issue head on after arriving and in a differing environment.

Same result.
 

Hehaw

Well-Known Member
Dornan and Celtic want the situation to be controlled by someone who has Celtic at heart, that is why Dornan is 'taking the lead' in calling for Celtic to do something about it. Celtic then are able to control the narrative.

I will tell you what will happen;

Dornan will have a meeting in 1-2 weeks with Celtic board, they will agree a £2-5 mill compensation fund that the victims can apply and another £1mill to be donated to some childrens charity. They will do everything in their power to avoid having to go to court to discuss this and will use a compensation fund to tempt people not to take this to court and will have victims and victims family sign NDA.
 
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