Victims lawyer urges Celtic to set millions aside

This case supports the notion that they are liable.

Chandler v Cape plc [2012] EWCA Civ 525 anyone?

The court had to decide if the parent company had taken on a direct duty of care to the employees of its subsidiary and was therefore responsible for their health and safety. In this case the parent company’s knowledge of the dangers of activities operated by its subsidiary resulted in the finding of liability. Such knowledge can be acquired from the parent company’s direct interaction with the subsidiary’s operations on site, or by its control of the subsidiary itself. The court created a test to assist future cases. A parent company could be found liable for the acts of its subsidiary if:

  • The parent and subsidiary share the same business;
  • The parent knew or ought to have had ‘superior’ knowledge of the dangers of certain practices;
  • The parent knew or ought to have known the subsidiary’s practices were unsafe;
  • The parent knew or ought to have foreseen that the subsidiary or its employees would rely on that ‘superior’ knowledge to protect the employees.
Separate legal entities may not therefore be as separate as envisaged and parent companies should be aware of the extent to which they interact or control their subsidiaries.
 
clubdeckcharlie said:
This case supports the notion that they are liable.

Chandler v Cape plc [2012] EWCA Civ 525 anyone?

The court had to decide if the parent company had taken on a direct duty of care to the employees of its subsidiary and was therefore responsible for their health and safety. In this case the parent company’s knowledge of the dangers of activities operated by its subsidiary resulted in the finding of liability. Such knowledge can be acquired from the parent company’s direct interaction with the subsidiary’s operations on site, or by its control of the subsidiary itself. The court created a test to assist future cases. A parent company could be found liable for the acts of its subsidiary if:

  • The parent and subsidiary share the same business;
  • The parent knew or ought to have had ‘superior’ knowledge of the dangers of certain practices;
  • The parent knew or ought to have known the subsidiary’s practices were unsafe;
  • The parent knew or ought to have foreseen that the subsidiary or its employees would rely on that ‘superior’ knowledge to protect the employees.
Separate legal entities may not therefore be as separate as envisaged and parent companies should be aware of the extent to which they interact or control their subsidiaries.
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If its public record that Cairney received wages or a salary from the Peasants, then they are goosed trying the separate entity nonsense.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
They will be watching the progress of the Crewe case very closely you can be sure. The whole 'separate entity' thing is a route Crewe have chosen to go down as well.
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Can English Law be used to establish precedent in Scotland?
Personally, and I made this point to scumbag work colleagues, I’d like the American approach, as in Penn State, applied here.
The aforementioned scumbags wanted American style justice, as in Lance Armstrong, when they had us guilty of cheating.
 
Crispy Bacon said:
Is it true Gerry McCann worked for the papes? After watching that documentary on Netflix and the reading that followed, I'm certain this "pedo ring" extends much further... John Reid was the

Left alone I'm sure?
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Thats one of the first things i thought,one of the Mcann pr men or lawyer said" quote we are contacting as many important friends of the Mcanns as we can, to get this out there"" why no John Reid,John Reid, Baron Reid of Cardowan PC (born 8 May 1947) is a British Labour Party politician. ..... His appointment was ratified by Celtic's shareholders on 19 November 2007. I would crawl over broken glass on my belly if i thought he could have done something to get my daughter back, i think GMcann was at the club same time as John Reid 2007
 
bazil said:
Thats one of the first things i thought,one of the Mcann pr men or lawyer said" quote we are contacting as many important friends of the Mcanns as we can, to get this out there"" why no John Reid,John Reid, Baron Reid of Cardowan PC (born 8 May 1947) is a British Labour Party politician. ..... His appointment was ratified by Celtic's shareholders on 19 November 2007. I would crawl over broken glass on my belly if i thought he could have done something to get my daughter back, i think GMcann was at the club same time as John Reid 2007
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McCann was club Doctor in the 90's. He left He left 6 months before Torbett was sacked for a 2nd time.
 
tazzabear said:
Can English Law be used to establish precedent in Scotland?
Personally, and I made this point to scumbag work colleagues, I’d like the American approach, as in Penn State, applied here.
The aforementioned scumbags wanted American style justice, as in Lance Armstrong, when they had us guilty of cheating.
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I’d guess not - but, in this type of case, I suspect the laws will more or less match. If Crewe wriggle off the hook I’d expect the Dhims to do likewise.
 
Gene_Okerlund said:
McCann was club Doctor in the 90's. He left He left 6 months before Torbett was sacked for a 2nd time.
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That evidence has never surfaced. There's quotes saying he helped out, possibly with medicals or advice but not that he was club doctor. If he was club doctor there would be published evidence.
 
muttley said:
That Crewe have employed lawyers previously used by the RC church in similar abuse cases says it all.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...bennell-arrange-stays-lawyers-catholic-church
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Crewe, the Guardian can reveal, have also begun preparing for a number of civil claims by bringing in specialist lawyers – appointed on behalf of the club by the Football League’s insurers – who have defended a child sex abuse claim relating to the Roman Catholic church.
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Whilst i sincerely hope the victims have their day in court and the Bheggars drown in a shitstorm, I can't help thinking that if Lord C or any of his cohorts get to judge proceedings, these f*****s will get away with it. Hope Not Loyal.
 
BlueBaloo said:
That would be an admission of guilt and they don't seem to keen to go down that road
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This is the big area they will be working on.
Celtic making a "donation" to a compensation fund with no acceptance of guilt. They will pay a few thousand on the basis the were closely connected but a seperate legal entity. They will then be exempt from all future litigation.
The solicitors will advice the lads it's the best they can get and put them under pressure to accept.
All involved will be happy and everyone else seething that the scum have not faced justice.
In short we will experience a massive carve up.
 
Last month the Sun reported that the pervert Cairney had got rid of his assets to prevent the abused getting compensation from him.
As part of this he sold his house for £85,000 on the basis he could stay in it untill his death. The Sun admit to knowing who bought the house but are refusing to name him. This is someone who had assisted in stoping the abused boys get their rightful compensation and yet the rag refuses to name him.
Our media is pathetic and complicit in the entire sordid story.
 
tintin69 said:
Last month the Sun reported that the pervert Cairney had got rid of his assets to prevent the abused getting compensation from him.
As part of this he sold his house for £85,000 on the basis he could stay in it untill his death. The Sun admit to knowing who bought the house but are refusing to name him. This is someone who had assisted in stoping the abused boys get their rightful compensation and yet the rag refuses to name him.
Our media is pathetic and complicit in the entire sordid story.
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I thought there were laws against this type of action?
 
It's good to see that progress is being made for the victims of abuse at Celtic Boys Club and that there is the prospect of compensation for the victims.

I cannot, however, think other Celtic FC as a club their staff and board members over the years are going to get of relatively lightly here. Prosecution of the abusers and compensation for the victims is right and proper. However, within the walls of that club, for decades, people at all levels have known what was going on and failed to act appropriately, i.e. report it to the authorities. These are crimes after all.

Had those in the know acted as they should have, numerous boys might have been saved the abuse they went on to suffer. The failure of Celtic FC plc office holders and staff to report what they knew enabled these people to continue abusing and for that they should be held accountable and face prosecution.

There is no investigation in to this, as far as I am aware; there is no reporting on this issue in the press, that I have seen; there are no questions being asked in Holyrood or Westminster, that I know of; and there are no worthies or luvvies speaking up about this to further the endeavours of the victims as they seek justice for what they were put through.

A cash hit looks like being the sum of the harm to Celtic FC plc for their disgraceful actions re the abuse of minors of a period of decades.
 
gmbear said:
It's good to see that progress is being made for the victims of abuse at Celtic Boys Club and that there is the prospect of compensation for the victims.

I cannot, however, think other Celtic FC as a club their staff and board members over the years are going to get of relatively lightly here. Prosecution of the abusers and compensation for the victims is right and proper. However, within the walls of that club, for decades, people at all levels have known what was going on and failed to act appropriately, i.e. report it to the authorities. These are crimes after all.

Had those in the know acted as they should have, numerous boys might have been saved the abuse they went on to suffer. The failure of Celtic FC plc office holders and staff to report what they knew enabled these people to continue abusing and for that they should be held accountable and face prosecution.

There is no investigation in to this, as far as I am aware; there is no reporting on this issue in the press, that I have seen; there are no questions being asked in Holyrood or Westminster, that I know of; and there are no worthies or luvvies speaking up about this to further the endeavours of the victims as they seek justice for what they were put through.

A cash hit looks like being the sum of the harm to Celtic FC plc for their disgraceful actions re the abuse of minors of a period of decades.
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Cash is everything to Celtic FC. Everything else is water of a dug's back (to quote a FF favourite expression).
 
They say that they had no knowledge prior to public knowledge in the 1990s, the Lawyer , and public domain, says he has evidence to the contrary, should that not be investigated by Police.
 
A public enquiry via Holyrood can't be discussed in any great depth until McCafferty's trial and Torbetts appeal are over I've been lead to believe.

Don't forget the ball is rolling in the USA in regards to abuse there on the American tours.

They're are documentaries planned too.

It's all a deplorable situation and people have to be patient due to the sensitivity of it and legal proceedings.
 
Haining84 said:
It is mate.

The lawyer has spoke to victims via conference call and things are at an early stage but underway.Both to sue in the US and here.
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Should be over a billion for all the young people who were raped, sodomised ,and physically and mentally scarred imho. never mind the families, spouses and mums, dads, grandparents friends and their own children who have suffered because of these CFC. CBC.St.Patsy disgusting sexual attacks. And of course the unbelievable re instating of Torbett back in the fold giving him a smorgasbord of new young people to prey on.
Also guilty are the people who instigated the side letters and the parents who signed them to sacrifice their own children for money or the promise of signing for C@ltic as rewards.
This is the biggest and worst sexual offences to ever to be attributed to a sporting club in Scotland, thank god it was also conducted in America rather than just in Scotland as the Scottish governments Parkhead Paedo cover up /exclusion is so despicable that they should also be culpable.
At least now some of the victims might at least get some real justice.
 
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Gene_Okerlund said:
Club Physio is what i meant not Doctor.
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Gerry McCann has been very successful in his career. In Glasgow his area of expertise was physiology and sports science. He worked in the Western Infirmary as a doctor and also lectured. I think Celtic would have employed him as a consultant when they needed his services.
He went into Cardiology after moving to Leicester, and he is now a professor of cardiac imaging.
No denying Gerry is a very clever and successful man. A lot of us might think you'd have to be to get away with it.
 
Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but I'm wondering if a lot the media fear Celtic, but once it becomes clear cut their not getting away from this one, maybe the flood gates will open as the media have nothing to lose by reporting facts.
 
Gaz030191 said:
Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but I'm wondering if a lot the media fear Celtic, but once it becomes clear cut their not getting away from this one, maybe the flood gates will open as the media have nothing to lose by reporting facts.
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Oh clearly Lawwell has had the media wrapped round his finger for years and you have to grudgingly admire the way he shuts down the majority of negative stuff involving Celtic.

We tend to just line up, bend over and take it.

This I doubt even he can put a lid on however.
 
Buffalo said:
Tommy Burns.

Just how far does it go with him?

He knew , no doubt, he wanted to put the full weight of Celtic behind Cairney instead of Victims, Why?

How involved was Burns?

Was Burns abused or was he a Paedophile or was he simply someone who wanted it all covered up?

Questions that should be asked.
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I've said that for years, personally I think he was a victim.
His conduct certainly points in that direction all day long!
 
looway said:
Again mate, it's anecdotal, there's no evidence he was club physio either. He may have carried out some form of works alongside club officials but not that he was employed at celtic.
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It's not anecdotal that he worked for Celtic. Media outlets have reported it including the BBC. Not much is ever given away however, they mention it as "Gerry McCann had worked for Celtic before moving to England" or similar. Whoever it is keeping a lid on it is doing a very effective job.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
Didn’t Crewe just have one Paedo VB ? And did they re hire paedos ?
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No idea on both counts mate. What I was alluding to is that the Crewe 'defence' seems based upon the following. Substitute Torbett for Bennell, Celtic for Crewe and Celtic Boys Club for Railway Juniors and you will see what I mean:

• Crewe claim that when boys stayed overnight with Bennell it was because of arrangements he must have had with the parents, rather than anything organised via the club.

• The club want the case to be thrown out under the 1980 Limitation Act on the grounds there is “no adequate explanation” why Bennell’s victims did not launch action earlier.

• Crewe deny Railway Juniors – a team coached by Bennell, wearing the club’s official kit and training on adjacent pitches to the stadium – had anything to do with the club, other than occasionally supplying the team’s strips.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
No idea on both counts mate. What I was alluding to is that the Crewe 'defence' seems based upon the following. Substitute Torbett for Bennell, Celtic for Crewe and Celtic Boys Club for Railway Juniors and you will see what I mean:

• Crewe claim that when boys stayed overnight with Bennell it was because of arrangements he must have had with the parents, rather than anything organised via the club.

• The club want the case to be thrown out under the 1980 Limitation Act on the grounds there is “no adequate explanation” why Bennell’s victims did not launch action earlier.

• Crewe deny Railway Juniors – a team coached by Bennell, wearing the club’s official kit and training on adjacent pitches to the stadium – had anything to do with the club, other than occasionally supplying the team’s strips.
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Thanks. Understand mate.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
No idea on both counts mate. What I was alluding to is that the Crewe 'defence' seems based upon the following. Substitute Torbett for Bennell, Celtic for Crewe and Celtic Boys Club for Railway Juniors and you will see what I mean:

• Crewe claim that when boys stayed overnight with Bennell it was because of arrangements he must have had with the parents, rather than anything organised via the club.

• The club want the case to be thrown out under the 1980 Limitation Act on the grounds there is “no adequate explanation” why Bennell’s victims did not launch action earlier.

• Crewe deny Railway Juniors – a team coached by Bennell, wearing the club’s official kit and training on adjacent pitches to the stadium – had anything to do with the club, other than occasionally supplying the team’s strips.
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There are similarities between above and CBC. But abuse at CBC goes so much further.
Survivors of CBC were abused in Torbett's home, his car, at training, at tournaments home and abroad, and even Parkhead. The other paedophiles linked to Celtic didn't confine their abusing to their own homes either. Celtic could never prove parents of boys abused at CBC made private arrangements with CBC for their children to stay at homes of the coaches, or to travel to training, matches and tournaments with them.
Celtic gave their blessing for CBC to use Celtic's brand. They supplied kit to the boys club and a lot more. Coverage of the boys club in the Celtic View didn't ever report the boys successes as those of a separate entity.
The limitations act will be difficult to enforce in cases of child abuse. Survivors have difficult, complicated journeys coming to terms with the abuse they suffered and reporting it. Applying a time limit to their journeys won't wash in court.
Crewe's case looks weak, but Celtic's is even weaker. Both clubs can't avoid answering for their negligence in my opinion.
 
mart22 said:
There are similarities between above and CBC. But abuse at CBC goes so much further.
Survivors of CBC were abused in Torbett's home, his car, at training, at tournaments home and abroad, and even Parkhead. The other paedophiles linked to Celtic didn't confine their abusing to their own homes either. Celtic could never prove parents of boys abused at CBC made private arrangements with CBC for their children to stay at homes of the coaches, or to travel to training, matches and tournaments with them.
Celtic gave their blessing for CBC to use Celtic's brand. They supplied kit to the boys club and a lot more. Coverage of the boys club in the Celtic View didn't ever report the boys successes as those of a separate entity.
The limitations act will be difficult to enforce in cases of child abuse. Survivors have difficult, complicated journeys coming to terms with the abuse they suffered and reporting it. Applying a time limit to their journeys won't wash in court.
Crewe's case looks weak, but Celtic's is even weaker. Both clubs can't avoid answering for their negligence in my opinion.
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My start point was saying the Dhims would be watching the Crewe case closely. I stand by that. It looks like the Crewe case will come to a head before anything on the Dhims. If Crewe win their case , it bolsters the Dhims case, whether we agree or not there are certain parallels. If they lose - or are forced to withdraw it by weight of public opinion (they are getting bad press down here because of it) - it virtually blows any Dhims defence out of the water.
 
EssexBear said:
If the Boys club have C R Smith on jerseys does that reinforce they were part of CFC
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Just what I was thinking there.

Did C R Smith have a sponsorship deal with the boys club?

If not, while it doesn’t blow the whole separate entity lie apart, it certainly shows it’s built on shifting sand.
 
Lemmy said:
Just what I was thinking there.

Did C R Smith have a sponsorship deal with the boys club?

If not, while it doesn’t blow the whole separate entity lie apart, it certainly shows it’s built on shifting sand.
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There are photos available that show the boys club in CR Smith strips. Was that part of the deal with the big team or did the boys club get paid separately
 
Gaz030191 said:
Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but I'm wondering if a lot the media fear Celtic, but once it becomes clear cut their not getting away from this one, maybe the flood gates will open as the media have nothing to lose by reporting facts.
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That happened a Torbetts last trial. One of the tabloids has a front page of him, the club crest and Liewells. I always thought that looked like a shot across the bows
 
Valley Bluenose said:
My start point was saying the Dhims would be watching the Crewe case closely. I stand by that. It looks like the Crewe case will come to a head before anything on the Dhims. If Crewe win their case , it bolsters the Dhims case, whether we agree or not there are certain parallels. If they lose - or are forced to withdraw it by weight of public opinion (they are getting bad press down here because of it) - it virtually blows any Dhims defence out of the water.
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I agree to an extent. There are parallels. However, even if Crewe successfully defend the actions against them I think Celtic's abuse circumstances are unique, and their judgement won't be influenced by other abuse cases.
 
mart22 said:
I agree to an extent. There are parallels. However, even if Crewe successfully defend the actions against them I think Celtic's abuse circumstances are unique, and their judgement won't be influenced by other abuse cases.
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The ruling on the Limitations Act will be particularly relevant. I just cannot see any way Crewe (or the Dhims) will get that to stand up.

Then again, I was convinced many of the Spivs were going to jail. What do I know?:rolleyes:
 
There is a documentary in the process of being made and researched over the last few years with all that has happened at that club and Crewe and a couple other clubs down south.

It’s still a while away but been told it will be the scum at the front and centre with all their predators and will connect the dots,and Bennell at Crewe had links at the scum.

It is NOT Mark Daly’s either and will be broadcast nationally when finished and will wait till Torbetts appeal heard and McCafferty trial is finished,I seen with my own eye’s who was researching it at court,as the folk where sitting at the last couple trials of Torbett and Cairney.
 
Bobafett Bear said:
There is a documentary in the process of being made and researched over the last few years with all that has happened at that club and Crewe and a couple other clubs down south.

It’s still a while away but been told it will be the scum at the front and centre with all their predators and will connect the dots,and Bennell at Crewe had links at the scum.

It is NOT Mark Daly’s either and will be broadcast nationally when finished and will wait till Torbetts appeal heard and McCafferty trial is finished,I seen with my own eye’s who was researching it at court,as the folk where sitting at the last couple trials of Torbett and Cairney.
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Is Dan Reed involved? His film about the two guys suing Michael Jackson's estate has had so much attention. It's extremely well made and tells their side of events without fear of repercussions from powerful people who would prefer the accusations to go away.
 
mart22 said:
Is Dan Reed involved? His film about the two guys suing Michael Jackson's estate has had so much attention. It's extremely well made and tells their side of events without fear of repercussions from powerful people who would prefer the accusations to go away.
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I only seen the two researchers that was sent to trials,and was told the documentary is being made by someone who has been all over this for the last year and a bit and is utterly amazed at why no one has connected the dots here.

I did see the MJ doc,and a high profile doc maker would be brilliant throwing this nationally to bring this into the public domain even more.
 
They might be able to argue that they are technically a new and different club than the Celtic football and athletic club of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s maybe a Nhewco club,So the old club and their bhoys club were a separate entity it would save them money but lose them trophies and history.
 
jf1960 said:
There are photos available that show the boys club in CR Smith strips. Was that part of the deal with the big team or did the boys club get paid separately
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Exactly. As with many different types of investigation in order to see the bigger picture follow the money. It always leaves a trail.
 
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