Walter always said he had 11 captains on the field.

Gio#56

Well-Known Member
From goalkeeper, fullbacks, centrebacks, midfield and forwards there was a captain there. Do we have a team of captains? I witnessed too many hiding today. Too many going through the motions. Too many unwilling to give that bit more. Sorry, but for all the good play we can produce, we lack bottle. It was nice to see Katic take some responsibility for such young shoulders in the second half when he went forward. Barisic in the first half had shown a better mentality. MacGregor has a desire. But what about Goldson and Tav. Are they captains? Are they winners. I am doubting them more and more when these big games come around. Yet their the first names on the team sheet. Just my opinion. And in most cases, their quality is good enough for home games and games where we are 2 goals ahead away from home etc. But I question their mentality when it is required in games of importance when 100% concentration and effort is required.
 
Goldson was probably our best player today. Shouting at people doesn't make a captain, McGregor needs to cut it out of his game if anything. It either slows us down or gets him booked
 
All players can lose form. Even your captain. The problem is Tav has become undroppable due to competition for his place being near redundant. I like Tav, I dont want him to leave. Just think he is struggling in big games and due to his position being his he cant lose is costing us.
 
Comments like this are really annoying.

While he hasn't been great so far this season, Tavernier is the first guy our players look to when we're chasing a game and time after time he has provided.

Utter nonsense.

Tav does exact opposite if anything tbh.

The 5-0 defeat to them, Tav completely shat the bed and hid, should never have played again after that never mind captain us.
 
ehh Barisic did absolutely nothing. He had umpteen clear space in front of him and did nothing.
Barisic was basicallly our only outball for an hour, he did have a good game defensively too. Just think Goldson was vital in breaking up their attacking play
 
Are you suggesting that the actual captains Smith had didn't have a huge influence on the success he had?
 
Comments like this are really annoying.

While he hasn't been great so far this season, Tavernier is the first guy our players look to when we're chasing a game and time after time he has provided.
Really think you're over-egging this now. He has had some terrific performances in the past but these days is more often a liability and the reason we're chasing a game.
Loyalty is a great quality, self-delusion isn't.
 
Utter nonsense.

Tav does exact opposite if anything tbh.

The 5-0 defeat to them, Tav completely shat the bed and hid, should never have played again after that never mind captain us.
How can you say he does the exact opposite when he contritbuted to over 20 goals last season?
 
Really think you're over-egging this now. He has had some terrific performances in the past but these days is more often a liability and the reason we're chasing a game.
Loyalty is a great quality, self-delusion isn't.
We're 9 games into the season, it isn't the time to bomb someone out either. Especially someone who we know can be one of if not the best player in the league. He needs to build his confidence back up
 
ehh Barisic did absolutely nothing. He had umpteen clear space in front of him and did nothing.

opinions, I thought he did well. You did not. We agree to disagree. I myself would not be looking at him regarding underperformers, but hey. We all see games differently.
 
Walter Smith's teams also put in some terrible performances. With much better players than we have now too. Sometimes we'll play much better than today and still drop points. Its the way football goes

Walters team may have put in poor performances. But his teams, in general, knew when a performance was needed.
 
We're 9 games into the season, it isn't the time to bomb someone out either. Especially someone who we know can be one of if not the best player in the league. He needs to build his confidence back up
I think we need to put the team and results before individuals if we're serious about winning anything. Someone elsewhere, defending JT, said "he's the first one the other players look to when we're chasing the game" and that may still be true. But, recently, he's not doing it so it needs to stop, take away that option, encourage the others to take responsibility rather than dumping it on the talisman. I blame the manager more than the player, he's taking the easy way out here and it's demonstrably not working, Tav's not playing his way out of it.
In short, no one is undroppable.
 
I think we need to put the team and results before individuals if we're serious about winning anything. Someone elsewhere, defending JT, said "he's the first one the other players look to when we're chasing the game" and that may still be true. But, recently, he's not doing it so it needs to stop, take away that option, encourage the others to take responsibility rather than dumping it on the talisman. I blame the manager more than the player, he's taking the easy way out here and it's demonstrably not working, Tav's not playing his way out of it.
In short, no one is undroppable.
It was a response to the "never a captain" bs. People don't know how the team see him and wont accept that he clearly has the armband for a reason
 
Walters team may have put in poor performances. But his teams, in general, knew when a performance was needed.

That's hindsight speaking, a performance is always needed. At the time it was a disaster any time they dropped points. They lost leads to celtic, they dropped points to diddy teams, the won when the shouldn't have, they drew when they should have won. Any team that wants to win any league will do all those things.
 
That's hindsight speaking, a performance is always needed. At the time it was a disaster any time they dropped points. They lost leads to celtic, they dropped points to diddy teams, the won when the shouldn't have, they drew when they should have won. Any team that wants to win any league will do all those things.

Not really. Walters teams won most battles thats how he won most wars. Last year we learned after the winter break what a mistake will do (psychologically) we never recovered. This was a massive chance to show we have learned from then. We repeated this again (another error). There is a trend there, its errors that are stopping us being where we want to be.

Something I dont recall walters teams doing regarding errors.
 
It was a response to the "never a captain" bs. People don't know how the team see him and wont accept that he clearly has the armband for a reason

I think you're right, I believe he's a good man, decent, a likeable guy, very popular and respected by the rest.
However, they drive Bentleys and Maseratis to compensate them for life's harsh realities.
This is professional football in an extremely hostile environment and he's just not doing the job, sentiment must not be prioritised over performance level and delivering.
The manager needs to manage the transition and the players need to accept it.
 
When Tav is captain it kinda proves we lacks leaders.
Everyone is waiting for someone else to make things happen.
 
Not sure I've ever heard Walter say that but if he has then I don't think it checks out.
 
When Tav is captain it kinda proves we lacks leaders.
Everyone is waiting for someone else to make things happen.


when i saw katic come out from the back in the 2nd half I thought that showed character. When I saw Tav late in the second half take a shy from which we lost possession (whilst Goldson stood deep and never got involved) I thought this showed a lack off character in both. Again just my opinion.
 
when i saw katic come out from the back in the 2nd half I thought that showed character. When I saw Tav late in the second half take a shy from which we lost possession (whilst Goldson stood deep and never got involved) I thought this showed a lack off character in both. Again just my opinion.
We are lacking something in this team.
 
Not sure I've ever heard Walter say that but if he has then I don't think it checks out.

If WS said that, I’m pretty sure he was meaning, I’ve selected them but they have to make their decisions on the pitch.
I can’t imagine him thinking Greg Wylde was a Captain. :))
 
Not really. Walters teams won most battles thats how he won most wars. Last year we learned after the winter break what a mistake will do (psychologically) we never recovered. This was a massive chance to show we have learned from then. We repeated this again (another error). There is a trend there, its errors that are stopping us being where we want to be.

Something I dont recall walters teams doing regarding errors.

Again, that's hindsight speaking. 9 in a row season as a quick example - we didnt win in 10 games, were none of those battles? Did they not matter at the time? Did we just play really well and were unlucky? Were no errors involved in the goals? We were poor today and this team definitely has question marks over their mentality. But we're joint top of a league that looks like it will be close. There are many ups and downs to come.
 
opinions, I thought he did well. You did not. We agree to disagree. I myself would not be looking at him regarding underperformers, but hey. We all see games differently.

I agree with the later, he’d be the last player at fault for today, but equally he did nothing going forward and had all the space in the world time after time and did absolutely nothing.
Hickey followed Ojo all game as he ran in side, goldson was pinging passes to him all day like a midfielder but he did nothing.

for all Tav was horrific today typically he’lltake some responsibility to create and drive the team. Barisic did nothing with the opportunity given to him.
 
Again, that's hindsight speaking. 9 in a row season as a quick example - we didnt win in 10 games, were none of those battles? Did they not matter at the time? Did we just play really well and were unlucky? Were no errors involved in the goals? We were poor today and this team definitely has question marks over their mentality. But we're joint top of a league that looks like it will be close. There are many ups and downs to come.
If you’re trying to draw comparisons with Walters 9 in the row team to this team, mentality or otherwise your about to make a massive tit of yourself
 
when i saw katic come out from the back in the 2nd half I thought that showed character. When I saw Tav late in the second half take a shy from which we lost possession (whilst Goldson stood deep and never got involved) I thought this showed a lack off character in both. Again just my opinion.

agree and was actually a bit shocked by his attitude in the ten minutes. He’s confidence is shit to pieces.
 
If he did say that - he is talking out his fucken arse

I heard this from a player regarding Walter. Not sure if it was said in public. If anyone knows explayers they may be able to back this up. Walter often addressed his team as being individuals who had to have captain mentality. i.e not go hiding, show for the team and have a mentality to win.
 
I heard this from a player regarding Walter. Not sure if it was said in public. If anyone knows explayers they may be able to back this up. Walter often addressed his team as being individuals who had to have captain mentality. i.e not go hiding, show for the team and have a mentality to win.

It’s a fucken mental comment that doesn’t stand true of a raft of players who played under him.
 
If you’re trying to draw comparisons with Walters 9 in the row team to this team, mentality or otherwise your about to make a massive tit of yourself

Good job I'm not comparing the teams. Just pointing out that despite the quality of players we had and the mentality of that squad that we still dropped points and played badly. And they also got plenty of stick just for it at the time. They also responded when they had done badly. We'll find out in the next week if this squad responds or not because motherwell will be another tough game.
 
Walter Smith's teams also put in some terrible performances. With much better players than we have now too. Sometimes we'll play much better than today and still drop points. Its the way football goes
He also didn't always have eleven captains.

Bo Anderson, Negri, countless amount of players played regularly in the starting eleven weren't captains.

So while is sounds good...
 
Hammered Aberdeen after they dropped points.
Hammered Hamilton after they dropped points.

But as soon as we drop points in a tough game we’re suddenly a team full of shíte bags?

We didn’t play well enough today against a good Hearts performance. Can that not just be it? Do we have to call out the character of all of our players any time we inevitably drop points?

We aren’t going to win every game and we aren’t going to play well every game.
 
If WS said that, I’m pretty sure he was meaning, I’ve selected them but they have to make their decisions on the pitch.
I can’t imagine him thinking Greg Wylde was a Captain. :))

it was during the 9 in a row era and was said by an ex player. Walter wanted and expected the 11 players on the field to take responsibility. From what I saw. He had this captain mentality throughout that era, in nearly all positions I mentioned.
 
Comments like this are really annoying.

While he hasn't been great so far this season, Tavernier is the first guy our players look to when we're chasing a game and time after time he has provided.
Yet again he continually costs us big time when it matters.Dress it up any way you want.
 
Good job I'm not comparing the teams. Just pointing out that despite the quality of players we had and the mentality of that squad that we still dropped points and played badly. And they also got plenty of stick just for it at the time. They also responded when they had done badly. We'll find out in the next week if this squad responds or not because motherwell will be another tough game.

you’ve just draw parallels by default ffs. Why not use Barca from 2015 instead when they dropped points? Or the Milanteam from the 90’s as an extreme I’m sure they dropped points.

Its got %^*& all relevance to here and now and especially this team.
 
It's October ffs, we have been beaten by the Scum and lost points to Hearts and the like before and still won the League. It's a fucking shit show on here at times.

Stevie G isn't stupid he will realise very quickly what has went wrong today and tbh he will do his very best to make sure we don't start a game like this again.
 
He also didn't always have eleven captains.

Bo Anderson, Negri, countless amount of players played regularly in the starting eleven weren't captains.

So while is sounds good...


thats nit picking, obviously they will be players that dont meet the criteria. Think in general.

Appearance-wise was there a captain mentality in the goalkeeper, the fullbacks, the centre backs, the midfield, the forwards? From Goalkeeper to the forward line. No one went hiding. No one lacked the desire to pull the team mates out a hole if underperforming. At times we might have had 1 or 2 or possibly 3 players having off games, but seldom was it more than near half a team like today. They would not get too many second chances to prove they were what walter wanted. This team could be a tittle winning team. But they need to show the mentality to do it. My opinion is it is lacking in key games. But I applaud others who think differently. Its an opinion board.
 
It's October ffs, we have been beaten by the Scum and lost points to Hearts and the like before and still won the League. It's a fucking shit show on here at times.

Stevie G isn't stupid he will realise very quickly what has went wrong today and tbh he will do his very best to make sure we don't start a game like this again.


its an opinion board m8, if some think a trend is happening in key games it does not warrant them to be called out for being a poor fan.
 
you’ve just draw parallels by default ffs. Why not use Barca from 2015 instead when they dropped points? Or the Milanteam from the 90’s as an extreme I’m sure they dropped points.

Its got %^*& all relevance to here and now and especially this team.

Did you check the thread title?
 
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