Warburton's transfer legacy in years to come

[UnionCruiser72]

Would have been better than buying Herrera for a million.

He wouldn't get in the side we have now though.

Yeah probably but as you said, a far better option than Herrera.

 

[bluenosebazza]

I think history will show Pedro to be an absolute turkey...Warburton will hardly be remembered as anything other than a false dawn/failure.

But I think if you consider one gave us arguably the greatest single victory over Celtic and one delivered the worst result at home against them....you'll be getting closer to reality.

Ironically the win directly lead to the defeat.

 

[AdiCR2]

I opened this thread to have a go at you but reading the 3 you mention initially its hard to disagree.

Jordan Rossiter, he's a weird one as I dont think I can remember Rangers Fans wanting a player to achieve so much with showing very little.

Tav is the best player in the league on current form and for me it's a toss up between Wes and Lewis from Aberdeen for best goalkeeper.

 

[AnglianBear]

It's one thing identifying a player and buying him. It's quite another thing to get that player playing to the best of his ability whilst growing as a player too. Warburton failed at that.

 

[Hobjo]

Holt came in on a two week trial, same as Halliday.

If he wasn't Warburton's signing then who's was he ?

Those names were on Stuart McCall's list to the new board before he departed. The trial was for Warburton's benefit

 

[Blue Goose]

Real hit and miss with some of the signings. Wes, Tac and Windass have improved hugely, strangely since the departure of PC. Dodoo has lost his way. Bates is doing well. Alynwick is a reasonable substitute although I think Kelly could ably do that role. Holt and Halliday are decent squad players imo.
Wilson was just coming onto a game.

 

[Angrybluebear]

I think history will show Pedro to be an absolute turkey...Warburton will hardly be remembered as anything other than a false dawn/failure.

But I think if you consider one gave us arguably the greatest single victory over Celtic and one delivered the worst result at home against them....you'll be getting closer to reality.

what ? We actually only drew with them over 90 minutes and then 120 minutes, and you not followed us for much if that is your thinking. In reality it is probably the worst thing that could have happened as they wouldn't have sacked Delia.

One took his team to Parkhead and lost 5-1 and the other left with that shambles of a squad that also lost 5-1, a four goal defeat we have suffered many times to them.

 

[KirkieRanger]

Yeah but even Pedro got a couple right... Morelos, Candias. Dorrans and Cordoso could yet come good.

Unfortunately like Warburton got the big ones wrong.

You're right mate except for Morelos as I think that was down to JJ

W.A.T.P.

 

[Jacrispy]

Warburton's first transfer window was a success.

The next three were unmitigated disasters. No other way to describe them.

Indeed. First one was great.

There after was a complete disgrace, and extremely odd given the change in directon and TBITB’s influence.

 

[Superman]

McPartland has alot to answer for.

 

[GR_7_Bear]

A broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[DanEggenFanClub]

Every manager has their successful signings, as you pointed out Warbs brought through a few gems. Pedro has brought in a few decent players too. Even Ally brought in superstars such as Emilson Cribari and Anestis Argyriou... wait forget that last bit

 

[EastBelfast84]

A few of his signings were decent value (tav fod windass etc) but a few were equally shocking. He's also the man that made it acceptable to be a loser at Rangers. Claiming that getting beat by Aberdeen was no big disaster because they had European pedegree. Like getting f**king pumped in the qualifiers makes you a European powerhouse. If that was the height of his continental ambition then we were well rid of him.

 

[Diego Maradona]

McPartland has alot to answer for.

I suspect he will have done very well out of a few bizarre transfers made over the years.

 

[cooprfc]

I don't understand how you can say "unlike Pedro".

The team just now has many players both signed simply due to the fact we have only had 1 transfer window without them.

Candieas, John, Morelos every bit as impressive as Fod, Tav, Windass, Holt im recent weeks. With Ryan Jack and Graeme Dorrans also gonba be big players when not injured.

Both signed several duds too

 

[Papasmurf]

Good post,some decent signings,but no plan b

Stubbornness was and is his downfall.

Is that a trait he learned in the FS industry?

He had great ideas, but even stevie wonder could see that we needed two things. A plan B and defensive organisation.

One of the saddest things for me was when I realised the 'warburton is magic' song disappeared. Sign that it was done.

He obviously didn't have the football intelligence to succeed.

The way he departed, really pissed me off at the time. And other than the publicity of it all, he did what I did when I left my last job. Realised it wasn't working and worked an exit that suited me.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't understand how you can say "unlike Pedro".

The team just now has many players both signed simply due to the fact we have only had 1 transfer window without them.

Candieas, John, Morelos every bit as impressive as Fod, Tav, Windass, Holt im recent weeks. With Ryan Jack and Graeme Dorrans also gonba be big players when not injured.

Both signed several duds too

Everyone signs duds. The key for us is that duds should be the least expensive not the most expensive in the squad.

 

[Superman]

I suspect he will have done very well out of a few bizarre transfers made over the years.

Yeah defo, but he done us like a kipper & if Warburton wasn’t so trusting in him he would maybe still be in employment.

 

[chrisgers]

Of all his signings the one I don't understand is Bates.

He's the absolute antithesis of a Warburton centre back, but exactly the type of player his team was short of for so long. He can tackle, attack the ball in the air, keeps his discipline and has the pace to cover space.

Wins it and gives it to the nearest blue jersey - the number of games MW lost simply because the team didn't include someone like that playing cb......

 

[cooprfc]

Everyone signs duds. The key for us is that duds should be the least expensive not the most expensive in the squad.

Yeah but that's not relevant to the OPs point. Both managers signed players who look useful now.

 

[mayfairblue]

Warburton had a good first window then it went quickly down hill.

 

[cav]

His record when given little funds and without McParland was superb really.After that a disaster of epic proportions.He was given plenty of time to sort it out but couldn't.

Pedro did well with Morelos,Candeias - and Alves,Dorrans and Cardoso are still decent players that can come good provided they still want to be here.Ironically Herrera and Pena(the two from a country where he was most successful)were incredibly poor decisions and unsurprisingly let down some of his other good work in the single transfer window that he had.
He got nowhere near the time Warburton did,fans' patience had run out by them imo.
But there's a decent argument that maybe he didn't deserve it given some of the results in bigger games.

Both did some good,but equally both fell way short of the standard required of the job also.

 

[WATP]

The truth is, Warburton had some great attributes as a manager.
We sang his praises in that first season, and it was only right because he was doing a great job.

Sadly he also has some glaring flaws, and as someone who so often talked about learning curves and self-improvement regarding the players, he seemed to lack the self-awareness to change his own career for the better and to learn from his mistakes.

I still wish him well.

To believe your never wrong or need to adapt isn’t confidence it’s arrogance! It’s not an endearing trait..... you can however get away with it as long as your winning! That there was the problem.....simply he didn’t keep on getting results with his plan A and plan A better arrogance.....and may I add.... he never will in a top level league!

 

[Dalmuirbear]

Agree with what Dunc said earlier in thread. First window was a success the rest really poor with the only shining light being Windass.

 

[bluestar91]

50% of any managers signing usually work out new managers coming in can improve or dismantle the player. I prefer players who have played in Britain and international players to sign for Rangers. Some players sign for Rangers for the money and building up their CV like Pena, Barton.

 

[Rangerscoverboy]

Brilliant first transfer window then an awful second summer one.

Got less to spend than Pedro mind but Garner, Senderos, Barton and Krancjar never worked out at all.

All of those signings flew in the face of what he said he wanted the summer before. I genuinely don't think King trusted him after Warburton hawking himself around England after a few months.

 

[omegaman]

A few of his signings were decent value (tav fod windass etc) but a few were equally shocking. He's also the man that made it acceptable to be a loser at Rangers. Claiming that getting beat by Aberdeen was no big disaster because they had European pedegree. Like getting f**king pumped in the qualifiers makes you a European powerhouse. If that was the height of his continental ambition then we were well rid of him.

The moment I realised it was all over for Warburton was when he appeared pleased with a point at St. Johnstone.

For him, taking something away from home against a top six side was a good result.

He just didn’t get it.

And when he finally did, he quickly started looking for a way out.

 

[George Goudie]

Good God, it pains me every time I'm reminded of Pedro, not so with Warburton, that's more of a disappointing ache.

Still smart at how he and Davie left us and tried to turn on us.

 

[DylanGer]

what ? We actually only drew with them over 90 minutes and then 120 minutes, and you not followed us for much if that is your thinking. In reality it is probably the worst thing that could have happened as they wouldn't have sacked Delia.

One took his team to Parkhead and lost 5-1 and the other left with that shambles of a squad that also lost 5-1, a four goal defeat we have suffered many times to them.

You've really got to question a Rangers fan who doesn't get fucking them in the Scottish Cup semi....you really have plus you do realise the difference between a home and an away defeat?

Warburton beat Celtic and ran them close Pedro's teams universally never turned up.

 

[DylanGer]

Ironically the win directly lead to the defeat.

Maybe it would be better sitting now not having that victory?

Beyond daft, if you want to put the whole thing in context Warburton showed he could beat Celtic and got very little investment. Pedro got murdered and as a result got big investment and still got murdered the next season......see if you can work out the difference.

 

[Jamie1873]

Players are one thing.
Coaching them to play a working system is more important.

Look at Killie since the wee rhat took over.
Less than exceptional talent, but very well drilled in a working formation.

Warburton lacked the later.

 

[heresto55]

No manager is ever all good or all bad.

Warburton put an enormous smile on our faces with 5 months or so of football that is up there with any Rangers side for sheer enjoyment to watch.
He made some key signings like Wes, Tav and potentially Windass or even Halliday.

He also gave us a wonderful victory against Celtic - their defeat to a Rangers side which was a division below them at the time will forever stick in their throat. Their highly talked up side was played off the park in patches that day.

Shortly after that he unfortunately disappeared up his own arse and took Davie Weir with him and in the end he was in some kind of Groundhog Day of learning but never actually demonstrating any change in behaviour, selection or approach. He gave us a Scottish Cup Final debacle as well.

Every manager and player is part of the fabric of this club - for better or worse.

Best I’ve read in a long time.

 

[LucyBlue]

Warburton gave us several good players and many poor players.

I'll admit I was on the Warburton hype bus for a while.

Never mind his departure, what I can't forgive him for is Rob Keirnan and possibly the worst defending I've ever seen in losing that 1st goal in the SC final.

In addition, Warburton actually assembled an entire back four who couldn't/can't head a ball in Tav, Keirnan, Wilson & Wallace. We lost goal after goal due to this.

That's why I consider Wilson no real loss nor Wallace being injured.

Warburton managed to create a team with an entire defence who could not head the ball.

 

[bluenosebazza]

Maybe it would be better sitting now not having that victory?

Beyond daft, if you want to put the whole thing in context Warburton showed he could beat Celtic and got very little investment. Pedro got murdered and as a result got big investment and still got murdered the next season......see if you can work out the difference.

I think things would be massively different if we hadn't won that semi final. We lost the final anyway, Celtc sacked their useless manager, got in a good one, backed him and so far have been beaten once domestically since then. We probably would've been closer to them in the league, there wouldn't have been as much pressure on the board to replace Warburton and we wouldn't have subsequently ended up with a complete diddy in Caixinha.

I think that'll do for me on this thread. It's impossible to have a proper conversation with you because you're possibly the most condescending poster in The Bear Pit.

 

[bear wi nae hair]

Brilliant first transfer window then an awful second summer one.

Got less to spend than Pedro mind but Garner, Senderos, Barton and Krancjar never worked out at all.

What really got me was he totally changed his targets in the second season. From signing young talented footballers who seemed to have lost their way a bit he went and got a load of old, over the hill footballers who had made their money.

Granted he probably felt the first 11 needed some experienced heads but he way then way out of his comfort zone and bad luck then dictated that they were all, except Hill, bad and expensive decisions.

 

[temperance]

Wes/tav/Windass/Bates/Holt, for every one of these, there ere 2/3 total failures. Better signings than Pedro of course.

 

[temperance]

What really got me was he totally changed his targets in the second season. From signing young talented footballers who seemed to have lost their way a bit he went and got a load of old, over the hill footballers who had made their money.

Granted he probably felt the first 11 needed some experienced heads but he way then way out of his comfort zone and bad luck then dictated that they were all, except Hill, bad and expensive decisions.

Plus, he could manage the younger players, but had no idea to handle the experienced pros.

 

[BSOI]

One f the difficulties of being our manager is there won' be time to develop players.
New signings have to hit the ground running.
Windass was always going to take time and games. Imo I still think he has some ways to go to become a key player

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

He contradicted himself, and it went against him.
He constantly said that he wouldn't bring in a player who would upset the dressing room by being on big wages , and not be in the mould of the character of a Rangers player.Then he signed Joey Barton, and we all know what happened there.
Not detracting from the OP which makes some good points. As others have also mentioned, there were other signings which were not so good.
I still shake my head regarding Sendros, and what he must have made out of us.

Could, it not be that Barton spotted the absolute farce that was our management team and called them out on their professionalism, or lack of.

For instance, Kiernan should never have kicked a ball after the SC final.

For the record, I'm not a Joey Barton fan

 

[bilkobear]

Good God, it pains me every time I'm reminded of Pedro, not so with Warburton, that's more of a disappointing ache.

Still smart at how he and Davie left us and tried to turn on us.

Yes, and it demonstrates how cutthroat the football business is.

Our loyalty as supporters is one where we can be criticised by those at the club, ignored by those at the club and fleeced even mugged by those at the club, but we see the club as an entity that is bigger than mere persons working for it, and thus our loyalty and commitment is toward the club at an abstract level.

However, for men like Warburton, it is a job, a way of earning a living to keep and maintain his family, and that as a career, football clubs are just staging posts, even ones that you might even have affection for.

Clearly, Warburton probably saw that he never commanded the full support from Dave King, the signs were there, and clearly, Warburton had decided to take the initiative.
Is that such a surprise?
That is usually what employees do in my experience when they feel that their position is flaky.

The point about the semi-final win over the Filth is an interesting one.
In hindsight, there is a strong case that had we lost, the useless Norwegian may have kept his job, and King (remember his comment about us being back) might have been panicked into releasing more money to Warburton.

But this assumes that the Filth Board were happy with Delia and that the semifinal on its own caused them to lose all confidence in him, which I doubt.
Further, that Warburton was starved of sufficient funds to make the next step up.
Rossiter, Barton and the pre-injury Kranjcar were all seen as excellent additions, and optimism was high that we had improved the squad sufficiently to bridge the gap by many on here.

In this, we underestimated just how bad Delia really was, and probably gave too much credence to Warburton and his squad, which in a reality not helped by our usual bad luck, actually saw us well short of a better managed and better funded Celtc squad.

The problem has always been losing an entire international squad of players and having to bring the squad back up to that level whilst fighting our way up through some of the poorest leagues in Europe.
A hugely difficult task where mistakes were inevitably made against a backdrop of outside hostility and hate, whilst inside Ibrox a parcel of rogues were busy looting and despoiling the very fabric of the club.

I actually think today's Rangers is nothing short of a small miracle when all things are considered.

 

[PMB1872]

Stubbornness was and is his downfall.

Is that a trait he learned in the FS industry?

He had great ideas, but even stevie wonder could see that we needed two things. A plan B and defensive organisation.

One of the saddest things for me was when I realised the 'warburton is magic' song disappeared. Sign that it was done.

He obviously didn't have the football intelligence to succeed.

The way he departed, really pissed me off at the time. And other than the publicity of it all, he did what I did when I left my last job. Realised it wasn't working and worked an exit that suited me.

Arrogance is certainly a trait in the FS industry. Worked in it for about 14 years now and it’s full of arrogant dicks.
Not me of course. I’m just a dick.

 

[TibbsyBear]

The difference between first good summer transfer window and the bad SPL transfer window was about balls.

When Warburton got here.The club was on it's knees on the park.He was a coup for us to get him here from Brentford.That gave him the ability to do things his way.. to buy young hungry players to develop and change the style of football.

by the SPL window. He was struggling with the pressure in Glasgow,the cup final defeat and the demands of winning 55 in our first season..so he caved in and instead of buying the young players that suit his style. He bought in .. Barton (33) Hill(37) Niko(31) Gilks(34) Garner(28) Senderous(31). He didn't have the balls to go in that season to do it his way and go in with the youngsters/hidden gems.He accepted common wisdom of us only being able to win the league by having lots of older heads and "know how" to win every week and experience.That worked for Walter..but Warburton isn't Walter.That's not what Warburton was good at. There was less development in his 2nd season because there was far less to be developed.

Warburton's few younger signings that season.. Windass/Rossiter/Hyndman/toral/bates were actually better than the older ones.If he'd stuck with that the whole way through. He might of kept his job for a bit longer and we'd be in an even more promising position right now.

Agree with most of your post apart from it being a coup to get him.

He was a relative unknown at the time. In my opinion it was basically an experiment by the board that the fans happened to get behind.

I think we were more seduced by the ‘Academic Manager’ rather than the typical been there done it type.

 

[LoganBear]

Completely forgot about big rob.

Hows he getting on at southend anyway?

Had some decent attributes did the bold rob but often had 1 or 2 brain farts every game and would totally switch off.

Warburton had a total hardon for him though, did he not say he had the potential to play in the epl or such.

For every success story under Warburton (Tavernier, Foderingham, Windass-ish) there’s been a Kiernan, a Crooks and a Joey Barton (it looked like a disaster waiting to happen, and it was).

Some good, some not so good.

In short, a mixed bag and far from a vindication of his attributes as a manager.

Pedro could be due similar reappraisal in the not too distant future.

Peña, Herrera and Cardoso look like massive wastes of resources, but Morelos could net us a fortune, while Dorrans, John and Candeias all look like good additions, the latter especially so.

We’ll have a better perspective on Murty’s (and Allen’s) ability to spot a player by the end of the season, but it certainly feels like we’re doing smarter business now than at any time in the last 2 or 3 years.

 

[LoganBear]

Would have been better than buying Herrera for a million.

He wouldn't get in the side we have now though.

I think we should have kept waggy as back up, did go through a very lean spell playing poorly but i still think he had ability.

Seems to be doing reasonable down south in a stronger league.

 

[Super Cooper]

He will be remembered for signing a good goalie.

 

[DylanGer]

I think things would be massively different if we hadn't won that semi final. We lost the final anyway, Celtc sacked their useless manager, got in a good one, backed him and so far have been beaten once domestically since then. We probably would've been closer to them in the league, there wouldn't have been as much pressure on the board to replace Warburton and we wouldn't have subsequently ended up with a complete diddy in Caixinha.

I think that'll do for me on this thread. It's impossible to have a proper conversation with you because you're possibly the most condescending poster in The Bear Pit.

Life doesn't work like that and I fail to see the logic.

I strongly suspect our Board has push way beyond their initial budgeting plans because the reality of trying to catch them was always going to bite-at some stage whatever the path had been it would have been clear investment was required. If we agree Warburton failed and he did-he did so with relatively low cost signings.

I think it was clear to the board that we were going to have to find money from somewhere and we've been effectively doing that since pre-season-both transfer windows have seen much more activity than we could have imagined.

To me whether we won the Scottish Cup that year lost to Celtic or whatever we were never going to catch Celtic with a squad that cost 2.5M or whatever it cost.

I apologise if this is coming across badly I find it nuts to suggest that such an important indeed historic victory should somehow be seen as a negative. People at the top should have realised that plenty of us did on here.

 

[George Goudie]

Yes, and it demonstrates how cutthroat the football business is.

Our loyalty as supporters is one where we can be criticised by those at club, ignored by those at the club and fleeced even mugged by those at the club, but we see the club as an entity that is bigger than mere persons working for it, and thus our loyalty and commitment is toward the club at an abstract level.

However, for men like Warburton, it is a job, a way of earning a living to keep and maintain his family, and that as a career, football clubs are just staging posts, even ones that you might even have affection for.

Clearly, Warburton probably saw that he never commanded full support from Dave King, the signs were there, and clearly, Warburton had decided to take the initiative.
Is that such a surprise?
That is usually what employees do in my experience when they feel that their position is flaky.

The point about the semi-final win over the Filth is an interesting one.
In hindsight, there is a strong case that had we lost, the useless Norwegian may have kept his job, and King (remember his comment about us being back) might have been panicked into releasing more money to Warburton.

But this assumes that the Filth Board were happy with Delia and that the semifinal on its own caused them to lose all confidence in him, which I doubt.
Further, that Warburton was starved of sufficient funds to make the next step up.
Rossiter, Barton and the pre-injury Kranjcar were all seen as excellent additions, and optimism was high that we had improved the squad sufficiently to bridge the gap by many on here.

In this, we underestimated just how bad Delia really was, and probably gave too much credence to Warburton and his squad which in a reality not helped by our usual bad luck, actually saw us well short of a better managed and better funded Celtc squad.

The problem has always been losing an entire international squad of players and having to bring the squad back up to that level whilst fighting our way up through some of the poorest leagues in Europe.
A hugely difficult task where mistakes were inevitably made against a backdrop of outside hostility and hate, whilst inside Ibrox a parcel of rogues were busy looting and despoiling the very fabric of the club.

I actually think today's Rangers is nothing short of a small miracle when all things are considered.

A huge miracle sir. I often stand in Ibrox and look round at the heaving stands and think to myself.... amazing.... simply amazing.

I still fear we have lost a generation of supporters but Rangers is clearly still is an amazing anchor that holds us all firm.

With regard to the semi victory.... have you heard the story about John Gilligan being over exuberantly celebrating infront of Dermot Diddly Dee? It was supposedly that moment where he decided he would push the boat out in his selection of a new manager. I'm not sure how accurate that story is.... it was probably over romanticised by some poetothy that was in the filth directors box that day.

 

[bilkobear]

A huge miracle sir. I often stand in Ibrox and look round at the heaving stands and think to myself.... amazing.... simply amazing.

I still fear we have lost a generation of supporters but Rangers is clearly still is an amazing anchor that holds us all firm.

With regard to the semi victory.... have you heard the story about John Gilligan being over exuberantly celebrating infront of Dermot Diddly Dee? It was supposedly that moment where he decided he would push the boat out in his selection of a new manager. I'm not sure how accurate that story is.... it was probably over romanticised by some poetothy that was in the filth directors box that day.

I hope we haven't lost those supporters GG.

Most of our support are brought through their own family and community ranks.
It falls upon one generation to encourage, instruct and indeed to facilitate the next into attending Ibrox, learning about the club and falling in love with Rangers.
Up to now, we have all done a fairly decent job of this.

I hope it can continue and that every one of us feels enough responsibility to ensure that it does.

 

[George Goudie]

So true. My youngest son would crawl to watch Rangers if he had to.... my oldest son has sadly been distracted by work and girls and can't be bothered with Rangers right now.

It hurts me to see that given his passion as a younger man..... and although I am a disbeliever.... I pray he returns one day.

Our support as you say, truly are a miracle and if Warburton's transfer policy has in fact sewn the seeds of recovery? Then I cannot think of a support more deserving.

Our return to the top will delight me more than anything I've ever experienced. I hope I am spared to see it, and please please let it be soon.

WATP!

 

[Starting Anew]

Everyone signs duds. The key for us is that duds should be the least expensive not the most expensive in the squad.

Like Kranjkar, Barton and Senderos?

What wages were they on?

And MOH and Garner as the most expensive buys didn't exactly set things alight either.

Agree fully with your point though. Where we are financially, we should only be pushing the boat out for as close to a guarantee as possible. Older players with reputations of old are a risk. Guys with stalled careers (i.e. Pena) are a risk. Even exciting youths are a risk. If we are spending big, it should be on a mid to late 20s first team regular who wants to play for us and comes from a league at least comparable to the SPL.

We can and certainly should take some risks but not for large transfer fees. I'd probably say £1mill should be the absolute top for now.